Aaron Ramsdale: return to Southampton confirmed

[Lush Vlad]

I feel like more than any other position. The demands of a goalkeeper have changed more than any other.  Especially in such a short space of time

 

So I feel like comparing over eras, even as recently as 10-15 years ago, is quite difficult. 
 

Given’s longevity and shot stopping was unreal. But Pope at his peak, which was basically the whole 4th placed season. Is clear of Given IMO. I think injuries and becoming inconsistent counts against him here.  

[Dr.Spaceman]

Aye, Pope would have been one of the best in the league in the mid 00's.

 

I wonder if it works in reverse and someone like Gabor Kiraly would be considered better than 00's Palace level if he was at his peak these days

 

 

Edited December 22, 2025 by Dr.Spaceman

[madras]

5 hours ago, El Prontonise said:

 

Given never came off his line and commanded his box.

 

 

 

He did, not as much as Pope, was a better one on one keeper and as good a shot stopper, if not better. I'd choose Given out of the two.

[madras]

2 hours ago, The College Dropout said:

Pope is way better than them both. 

In your opinion.

[Kid Icarus]

Think Neesy means he stayed on his line for crosses.

[madras]

1 hour ago, TheBrownBottle said:

Given was an excellent shot stopper, but his distribution was even shitter than Pope’s and he was weaker on crosses

His distribution was better because he shit himself less so wasn't used as a ploy by the opposition. 

 

[madras]

21 minutes ago, Kid Icarus said:

Think Neesy means he stayed on his line for crosses.

I know. He didnt though, he came for less than Pope but more than Ramsdale.

[TheBrownBottle]

44 minutes ago, madras said:

His distribution was better because he shit himself less so wasn't used as a ploy by the opposition. 

 

Wasn’t really such a thing as a ‘high press’ back then - he’d shit himself from a goal kick.  
 

We’ve never been blessed by a genuinely great keeper is the truth of it 

[duo]

I thought his positioning for the free kick was suspect - was too far to the left.

[The College Dropout]

1 hour ago, madras said:

I know. He didnt though, he came for less than Pope but more than Ramsdale.

No he didn’t.  
 

So many goals we conceded with the ball bouncing in the 6 yard box.  
 

Also made saves look better because he was much shorter. Maybe a marginally better shot stopper.  Far less presence and stature. Far less command of his era up against more physical opposition he just couldn’t compete. 
 

[Lush Vlad]

2 minutes ago, duo said:

I thought his positioning for the free kick was suspect - was too far to the left.

 

The more I see it, the worse it gets.  Post and in and Bruno didn't jump.  So it's not fair to fully blame Ramsdale.  But he's just clipped it up and over with no power.  He looks like he can get there and then does his usual despairing dive and not getting near it.   

 

Ramsdale's positioning isn't what I always have issue with.  It is how late he seems to react to shots.  Regularly diving when it's too late or already past him and like he has no spring or power in his dives.  Just sort of collapses on the spot and always seems flailing and at full stretch.

 

To reiterate, I can't get over how impressive his distribution was on Saturday, first half in particular.  So I feel like I'm now used to that and take it for granted.  He was pinging it about like Ederson.  It will be even more noticeable how bad we are when Pope comes back in and he'll cop even more flak for his crap passing.  So is it a case of that skillset being more of a net benefit to the team than the fact he's an average at best 'keeper' at this level and I think should have done better on a number of goals conceded already?  Not actually sure, TBH.  Shame they both have such polarising strengths and weaknesses. 

 

The current back 4 is full of ball players, at least.  So we shouldn't have a big issue playing out and finding forward passes for the next however many games.  But the extra man behind that is still a massive help when playing round or through a press.  

[duo]

You can see that players are more comfortable passing to him and he basically makes us into a back three

[The College Dropout]

Been watching this - what a great side this was going forward. If Gordon had Bellamy’s mentality, he wouldn’t be here. 
 

no way was Given better than Pope though.  No chance 

 

[Yorkie]

I absolutely loved Shay and he was definitely a very good keeper, but watching the season review vids from around the time is definitely an eye-opener. Maybe we had different expectations back then/worldies counted for more.

[OverThere]

I would say he doesn't have much distance in his dives. Great with the ball at feet though. Unfortunately we are talking a hybrid between him and Pope.

[madras]

1 hour ago, The College Dropout said:

Been watching this - what a great side this was going forward. If Gordon had Bellamy’s mentality, he wouldn’t be here. 
 

no way was Given better than Pope though.  No chance 

 

Thing is with those vids is they only show the goals and not the saves to balance things out. 

 

Coming out to feet was another area where Given was better (Pav was tte master though) and with the height thing does that mean shorter keepers are automatically less good ?

[The College Dropout]

2 hours ago, madras said:

Thing is with those vids is they only show the goals and not the saves to balance things out. 

 

Coming out to feet was another area where Given was better (Pav was tte master though) and with the height thing does that mean shorter keepers are automatically less good ?

Given wasn’t great with his feet in his own era. He was worse with his feet than Joe Hart and the likes of Petr Cech who were as bad with their feet as Pope when asked to play out as they had to under Emery or Guardiola. Worse even. For his time Given was decent at the long kicks but nothing spectacular.  
 

A GK the size of Shay is going to need to be extraordinary to command his area an give confidence to the defence to the same degree as Pope. And he didn’t.  He’s physically incapable of doing it (same with Ramsdale). There’s things that will look like worldies for Shay that Pope makes look easy.  
 

I love Shay but man is he over rated.  He was the cornerstone of what was a weak team for a reason. He was also physically weak for the day. Pope has been a part of the sturdiest defence we’ve ever had and his strength and command has been a cornerstone of that.  

[madras]

11 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

Given wasn’t great with his feet in his own era. He was worse with his feet than Joe Hart and the likes of Petr Cech who were as bad with their feet as Pope when asked to play out as they had to under Emery or Guardiola. Worse even. For his time Given was decent at the long kicks but nothing spectacular.  
 

A GK the size of Shay is going to need to be extraordinary to command his area an give confidence to the defence to the same degree as Pope. And he didn’t.  He’s physically incapable of doing it (same with Ramsdale). There’s things that will look like worldies for Shay that Pope makes look easy.  
 

I love Shay but man is he over rated.  He was the cornerstone of what was a weak team for a reason. He was also physically weak for the day. Pope has been a part of the sturdiest defence we’ve ever had and his strength and command has been a cornerstone of that.  

He wasn't great with his feet but was there audible anxiety when he had the ball at his feet like Pope ?, he didnt try, he just got decent air under it. Did opposition teams see pressuring him when he has the ball at his feet as a tactic like they do with Pope ?

 

When I said "to feet" I meant diving at attackers feet to get the ball.

 

 

Edited December 22, 2025 by madras

[Lush Vlad]

57 minutes ago, madras said:

He wasn't great with his feet but was there audible anxiety when he had the ball at his feet like Pope ?, he didnt try, he just got decent air under it. Did opposition teams see pressuring him when he has the ball at his feet as a tactic like they do with Pope ?

 

When I said "to feet" I meant diving at attackers feet to get the ball.

 

 

 

 

Was high pressing and keepers being fairly heavily involved in the build up even much of a thing when Given played?

[timeEd32]

You can debate the benefits of his feet and whether he should have stopped this or that, but I'm not sure how anyone watches the four goals conceded against Spurs and Chelsea and isn't dying for Pope to come back in. 

[madras]

1 hour ago, Lush Vlad said:

 

Was high pressing and keepers being fairly heavily involved in the build up even much of a thing when Given played?

Less of an organised press but keepers getting pressured with the ball at their feet ? Yes. And thats why they didnt do it much. (Pav liked to knock it about a little and take a man on ....... had us shitting ourselves !)

 

Is Pope heavily involved in our build up play ?

[The Prophet]

6 hours ago, duo said:

I thought his positioning for the free kick was suspect - was too far to the left.

 

He definitely thought Palmer was taking it.

[Lush Vlad]

30 minutes ago, madras said:

Less of an organised press but keepers getting pressured with the ball at their feet ? Yes. And thats why they didnt do it much. (Pav liked to knock it about a little and take a man on ....... had us shitting ourselves !)

 

Is Pope heavily involved in our build up play ?

As crap as he is with his passing.  
Pope is used more just passing it about than Given ever was, yes. Given was terrible with his feet. Not sure that is even debatable? 

 

Pav has no relevance to this debate either. 

[madras]

20 minutes ago, Lush Vlad said:

As crap as he is with his passing.  
Pope is used more just passing it about than Given ever was, yes. Given was terrible with his feet. Not sure that is even debatable? 

 

Pav has no relevance to this debate either. 

He was, thats why he didnt even try, he just cleared his lines. Less panic.

[Wolfcastle]

6 hours ago, madras said:

Thing is with those vids is they only show the goals and not the saves to balance things out. 

 

Coming out to feet was another area where Given was better (Pav was tte master though) and with the height thing does that mean shorter keepers are automatically less good ?

How many games was he called upon in those days to make an above normal amount of saves though?. We were the better team invariably and at home by a distance in most games. Man United being the obvious exception.

 

 

Edited December 22, 2025 by Wolfcastle