Nick Woltemade

[cannybagoftudor]

My opinion is that he is being drilled into a player who will have to react to several different triggers with different movement options attached to each (some against his natural instinct). This, with the transition to a new league will be a hell of a learning process. But I already love him and think he will be an immense player. 

[LFEE]

3 hours ago, AyeDubbleYoo said:

And people forget he’s actually been good

 

The team has been good for him is different to him being good for the team which I think has been the case and my concern. It’s going to be fascinating watching how it plays out this next 18 months. Really want him to succeed here.

[nufc123]

4 hours ago, AyeDubbleYoo said:

And people forget he’s actually been good

Coming to a new league he has done really good, but he has areas he can improve on. Like the "statue" label. Sometimes he forgets to get in the box and be on it. I want more of the Wolte against Chelsea and City. 

[cubaricho]

28 minutes ago, cannybagoftudor said:

My opinion is that he is being drilled into a player who will have to react to several different triggers with different movement options attached to each (some against his natural instinct). This, with the transition to a new league will be a hell of a learning process. But I already love him and think he will be an immense player. 

This is absolutely how Howe coaches so it makes a lot of sense to me. 

[Lush Vlad]

13 minutes ago, LFEE said:

 

The team has been good for him is different to him being good for the team which I think has been the case and my concern. It’s going to be fascinating watching how it plays out this next 18 months. Really want him to succeed here.

Not sure I agree there. I don’t think we’ve played to his strengths at all TBH. We have been very up and down in attack and often don’t even get him involved. 
 

I do also wonder long term about him fitting the system, mind. It is going to need some tweaks to get the best out of him. He will need to adapt his game and all.
 

I can see both happening. Chelsea at home was very promising with some of his positioning and movement. As was Man City. 

[Mahoneys Tache]

He’s immensely talented. He’ll adapt. He’ll be legendary. 

[Hanshithispantz]

You ping a ball to his feet and more often than not he finds our player and in a large percentage of those times it's in a way that takes several defenders out of the game.

 

He needs to massively improve his arial duels and continue developing as a proper threat in the box but as soon as our wingers properly click we should have a great attack. I like Wissa but he's miles away from what Woltemade can be.

[oldtype]

The plan was always to have Wissa start and to ease Woltemade into the team slowly, giving him time to get used to how we play and us time to get used to how he plays.

 

We're just getting started a bit later than planned due to injury. I think he and Wissa will be going back and forth for that starting place until at least end of next season like Wilson and Isak did, but that process will make him a better player.

[gbandit]

1 hour ago, Mahoneys Tache said:

He’s immensely talented. He’ll adapt. He’ll be legendary. 

The lad is overflowing with quality. He’s at the right club to develop too. He’s going to be absolutely amazing from next season onwards

[LFEE]

3 hours ago, Lush Vlad said:

Not sure I agree there. I don’t think we’ve played to his strengths at all TBH. We have been very up and down in attack and often don’t even get him involved. 
 

I do also wonder long term about him fitting the system, mind. It is going to need some tweaks to get the best out of him. He will need to adapt his game and all.
 

I can see both happening. Chelsea at home was very promising with some of his positioning and movement. As was Man City. 

Every goal he’s scored has been pretty much been put on a plate for him via his teammates Brighton goal aside and at a further push USG. I’ve yet to see him score a goal of his own making that we saw in his YT clips or any great assists or progressive dribbling. The closest touch being to assist was for Bruno against Spurs and even then the layoff was a little fortuitous.

 

You say we don’t get him involved and although I do appreciate what you mean he’s also got to take some responsibility and get into the box. Late on against Palace with fresh legs he was nowhere near converting the couple of great late crosses that went across the six yard box and surely it should’ve been him not Willock with that last gasp chance.

 

I’m possibly being too harsh on him and I’m not really blaming him for anything. He is what he is. Just like I said in the summer I didn’t think a lumbering CF would be a good idea or fit to a style we’ve been honing for 3yrs and if it wasn’t for Isak downing tools post cup final we were a team that had finally started to click properly against all levels of opposition.

 

I really hope he proves me massively wrong and when I am I’ll always hold my hands up.

 

I just go back to my original comment which possibly set off the debate (in the Elanga thread) that if we could get close to getting our money back and reinvest it in a forward in similar vein of Isak I’d be tempted rather than re-mould 10 other players out of a 3yr successful playing style to fit one quite unique player. Maybe I’m wrong and this direction will make us less predictable in the long run. Who knows 🤷🏼‍♂️ 

[Optimistic Nut]

Love him but I think if Bayern come in with £80m or so this summer to replace Kane, we'll take it and sign someone more suited to how Howe plays. 

[wiseman]

10 minutes ago, Optimistic Nut said:

Love him but I think if Bayern come in with £80m or so this summer to replace Kane, we'll take it and sign someone more suited to how Howe plays. 

After Bayerns comments about how much we paid, I cant see them doing that

 

 

Edited January 5 by wiseman
My spelling is shit

[LionOfGosforth]

Depressing comments in here like, think he's a massive talent and will develop and fit us like a glove if given time.

[huss9]

3 hours ago, LFEE said:

Every goal he’s scored has been pretty much been put on a plate for him via his teammates Brighton goal aside and at a further push USG. I’ve yet to see him score a goal of his own making that we saw in his YT clips or any great assists or progressive dribbling. The closest touch being to assist was for Bruno against Spurs and even then the layoff was a little fortuitous.

 

You say we don’t get him involved and although I do appreciate what you mean he’s also got to take some responsibility and get into the box. Late on against Palace with fresh legs he was nowhere near converting the couple of great late crosses that went across the six yard box and surely it should’ve been him not Willock with that last gasp chance.

 

I’m possibly being too harsh on him and I’m not really blaming him for anything. He is what he is. Just like I said in the summer I didn’t think a lumbering CF would be a good idea or fit to a style we’ve been honing for 3yrs and if it wasn’t for Isak downing tools post cup final we were a team that had finally started to click properly against all levels of opposition.

 

I really hope he proves me massively wrong and when I am I’ll always hold my hands up.

 

I just go back to my original comment which possibly set off the debate (in the Elanga thread) that if we could get close to getting our money back and reinvest it in a forward in similar vein of Isak I’d be tempted rather than re-mould 10 other players out of a 3yr successful playing style to fit one quite unique player. Maybe I’m wrong and this direction will make us less predictable in the long run. Who knows 🤷🏼‍♂️ 

some of that is down to prem defences being better than the bundesliga.

[r0cafella]

2 hours ago, LionOfGosforth said:

Depressing comments in here like, think he's a massive talent and will develop and fit us like a glove if given time.

Absolutely this, for some reason a lot of folk are absolutely desperate to put him in a box and say that's what he is and no more. I think he's going to be massive for us and will be integral especially against defensive sides. 

[Mazzy]

3 hours ago, Optimistic Nut said:

Love him but I think if Bayern come in with £80m or so this summer to replace Kane, we'll take it and sign someone more suited to how Howe plays. 

 

That's a big if. I really don't see that happening. 

 

For what it's worth I think signing a player specifically to suit a particular manager is usually a bad idea. Even if it's Howe and he's pretty adept at getting the best out of players I would never personally want Newcastle United to sign a player purely based on a system Howe works with. IMO any player we sign has to be adaptable and of a high enough quality they can perform in the team regardless of who the manager is.

[Menace]

3 hours ago, Optimistic Nut said:

Love him but I think if Bayern come in with £80m or so this summer to replace Kane, we'll take it and sign someone more suited to how Howe plays. 

 

Considering how similar strikers of that price are doing, no thanks.

[HMSIllustrious]

9 hours ago, Optimistic Nut said:

Love him but I think if Bayern come in with £80m or so this summer to replace Kane, we'll take it and sign someone more suited to how Howe plays. 

I dread the idea of seeing him flourish in the Champions League for Bayern thinking -this could have been us.

[Begbie]

10 hours ago, LFEE said:

I just go back to my original comment which possibly set off the debate (in the Elanga thread) that if we could get close to getting our money back and reinvest it in a forward in similar vein of Isak I’d be tempted rather than re-mould 10 other players out of a 3yr successful playing style to fit one quite unique player. Maybe I’m wrong and this direction will make us less predictable in the long run. Who knows 🤷🏼‍♂️ 

 

Do you want the Isak we signed in 2022, a winger that scored 10 goals in 41 games a season or the Isak we sold(ie World Class forward)? 

 

Isak had 10 goals in 27 games his first season and was in and out of the team.

Woltemade has 9 in 25 now, if he scores in one of the next 2 matches he will have equal stat as Isak in his first season. Remember we where flying the Isak season.. 

 

Woltemade has played more then he was suppose to, he was suppose to learn from Wissa this season. 

I will wait untill next season before I judge him, and see if our coaching team can form him to the striker we want. 

 

[Elliottman]

9 hours ago, LionOfGosforth said:

Depressing comments in here like, think he's a massive talent and will develop and fit us like a glove if given time.

 

Find it all very bizarre like 

[RS]

2 minutes ago, Elliottman said:

 

Find it all very bizarre like 

Just shows the gap in knowledge between professional football and fans forums. 

[The College Dropout]

Who is being negative? Where are the negative posts?

Lad is super talented but he also has a lot to learn and develop. That's all people are pointing out.

[Elliottman]

14 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

Who is being negative? Where are the negative posts?

Lad is super talented but he also has a lot to learn and develop. That's all people are pointing out.

 

There's literally two people on this page discussing selling him 

[Lush Vlad]

13 hours ago, LFEE said:

Every goal he’s scored has been pretty much been put on a plate for him via his teammates Brighton goal aside and at a further push USG. I’ve yet to see him score a goal of his own making that we saw in his YT clips or any great assists or progressive dribbling. The closest touch being to assist was for Bruno against Spurs and even then the layoff was a little fortuitous.

 

You say we don’t get him involved and although I do appreciate what you mean he’s also got to take some responsibility and get into the box. Late on against Palace with fresh legs he was nowhere near converting the couple of great late crosses that went across the six yard box and surely it should’ve been him not Willock with that last gasp chance.

 

I’m possibly being too harsh on him and I’m not really blaming him for anything. He is what he is. Just like I said in the summer I didn’t think a lumbering CF would be a good idea or fit to a style we’ve been honing for 3yrs and if it wasn’t for Isak downing tools post cup final we were a team that had finally started to click properly against all levels of opposition.

 

I really hope he proves me massively wrong and when I am I’ll always hold my hands up.

 

I just go back to my original comment which possibly set off the debate (in the Elanga thread) that if we could get close to getting our money back and reinvest it in a forward in similar vein of Isak I’d be tempted rather than re-mould 10 other players out of a 3yr successful playing style to fit one quite unique player. Maybe I’m wrong and this direction will make us less predictable in the long run. Who knows 🤷🏼‍♂️ 

 

Put on a plate seems a bit harsh.  Spurs in the cup when it was a keeper error and Chelsea when it fell to him, (he was in the right place to put it in, surely you like that?!).  The headers have been decent, as have the flicks.  It's not like he's been scoring tap ins 4 yards out all the while.  Although, based on some of your later comments.  You might prefer it if they were   Fair enough one was a penalty.  But it was a ruthless finish.  

 

The Chelsea game and the City games showed glimpses of him showing some more natural instincts and looking to make those runs in behind or into the box.  How many of Isak's goals would have been 'put on a plate' for him, using whatever your criteria is?!  I also distinctly remember being plenty of chatter on here about Isak often pulling off to the penalty spot and not attacking the 6 yard box or the box in general enough.  He improved on this loads and then got worse again in a lot of games.  Barnes second v Man U and a couple of others he got pelters for not being the one on the end of it.  

 

So in that regard, I'm not sure it's fair to have a go at him for being a bit slow and not being able to outpace Willock, one of our quickest players.  Or keep up with Barnes who arguably makes the best runs in our whole squad and timed it to perfection.

 

I also referenced him needing to adapt his game.  But you seem to have somehow conveniently ignored that bit.  I'm not sure he is a natural finisher, he has already missed some easy chances, I think a couple have been offside or would have been offside, luckily for him and us.  The same as his those instincts around what runs to make and almost sniffing out the chance the way that someone like Wissa does, is often lacking.  I'm not sure how much you can coach these attributes.  But I think he has already shown improvement in this regard, as mentioned above.

 

I'm also not only on about goals or chances when I say we don't play to his strengths.  CB's have started going really tight to him and following him.  Meaning he is losing some contested balls, but also that we don't always look to pass it to him and trust him in that situation.  Nor do we have anyone close to him for him to lay it off to.  It creates a lot of space for the wide me to come off their wing (like Gordon and Barnes do at times already) and also for our 8's to get beyond him.  He is often contesting for balls and doesn't usually lose it straight away or anything.  So why have we not looked to get a midfielder closer to him for lay offs or to win the second ball?  He regularly looks isolated and stood up there like his only role is to win headers and be the big man in a 4-5-1 for a defensive team.  Which he isn't and we certainly aren't.

 

On you saying you're possibly being too harsh.  I certainly think you are.  Describing him as a lumbering CF and making out like our entire team needs to change to suit him.  When in fact some tweaks from certain players and passing patterns and some changes from Woltemade himself.  Could see us being a very effective side.  Especially when we were already getting found out in games last season and gripes around the 4-3-3 and lack of flexibility have been mentioned numerous times over Howe's tenure.  Do most competitive to successful sides play the same way year after year after year?  I very much doubt that. 

 

If you're that way inclined, I think he is slightly outperforming his xG in the league at +1.1 and that includes a penalty, which is 0.7 odd.  9 in 20 starts and 6 sub apps in all comps isn't too shabby.

 

This is someone who wasn't expected to start straight out the gate, who is young and a very different style of player and not renowned for his goals.  Coming from a league where they don't defend, too.  All feels extremely premature and like you're being a bit of a contrarian to boot.  

[Shearergol]

3 hours ago, Elliottman said:

 

There's literally two people on this page discussing selling him 

 

One of them has been saying it from the minute he landed in the country though. Just ignore him, obviously has some weird hang-up with the lad.