Growing Pains

[geordiesteve710]

4 hours ago, toon25 said:

Krafth is occasionally still on the pitch tbf 

 

Unfortunately he's not, which has really hindered us this season when Tino has been injured and Tripps has ended up playing twice a week with very little rest.

 

Which brings me, seamlessly imo, onto another point which is relevant to this thread. Until the academy can start kicking out players who can step in and do a job for a match or 2 we will always be 2 or 3 injuries away from being stretched across any area of the team in the era of 25-man squads.

 

It's another hangover from the Ashley era that disadvantages us compared to the ESL6, Villa and countless others.

[toon25]

10 minutes ago, geordiesteve710 said:

 

Unfortunately he's not, which has really hindered us this season when Tino has been injured and Tripps has ended up playing twice a week with very little rest.

 

Which brings me, seamlessly imo, onto another point which is relevant to this thread. Until the academy can start kicking out players who can step in and do a job for a match or 2 we will always be 2 or 3 injuries away from being stretched across any area of the team in the era of 25-man squads.

 

It's another hangover from the Ashley era that disadvantages us compared to the ESL6, Villa and countless others.

 

It extends well beyond Ashley era imo. Can count on one hand the number of youngsters we've brought through over the years to play for us in the PL

[Miercoles]

8 hours ago, Mike said:

 

 I will happily derail the thread and make it a Yankees thread. Our pitching is honestly going be insane this year imo.

 

Yes, Alan Pardew is still the manager. Yes that is an issue. 

 

But you're a fucking A's fan.  Fuck outta here.

 

I would love to see a real rotation for the Yankees, I don't watch the A's any more since they moved to Sacramento (tickets are now $8 to sit in the grass lmao) so I'm much more invested in their success. 

 

Tbf starting the season with two shutouts is a good sign but I'll believe it when I see it

[Thumbheed]

PIF saw our balance sheet before buying us, they saw our revenue and will have undoubtedly seen the revenues of the club's they eventually hope they eclipse. 

 

They'll have been fully aware of the risks and challenges that that gap in wealth would pose us and would have undoubtedly factored that into their calculations, and yet they still saw enough potential in us to hang around for 2 years whilst they were being publicly humilatiated before eventually being allowed to buy us.

 

At the first opportunity they publically stating their aim to be "Number 1", so I'm under no doubt that they were fully on board with what it would take to achieve that ambition.

 

Their £1bn total investment to turn us into a £1bn club is ample evidence of that. 

 

I think people often forget the fact they stood by us for 2 years before owning us.  

 

Things take time.

 

A bad summer transfer window is not indicative of an owners failing ambitions and interests, it's indicstive of someone willing to take the risks required to get us to where we want to be.

[TheBrownBottle]

I’m one of those people on here who’ve been very critical of late.  For context, I’m a bit of worrier - I’ll often express frustrations through football.  I suspect I’m not alone, but football for me was always tribalistic and a means for ‘venting steam’.  That isn’t much of a justification; but it’s what a club what has dominated parts of my life for four decades sometimes is. 
 

I can see that plenty have been fucked-off with the negativity (as in mine).  I’m as guilty as anyone on that front - Sunderland would be the ne plus ultra of it.  I was furious - not gloating. 
 

Apologies if I’ve contributed to making folks’ experience on here a negative one.  I can only say it wasn’t my intent - football (in particular NUFC) was always a focal point of frustration. 
 

I can’t say I take back all of my concerns re direction of travel - I maintain that Howe is level with KK re best NUFC managers, but I’m not entirely convinced that he’s the man to take us forwards.  That doesn’t mean I think he’s shit or a terrible man - I think the opposite.  But sometimes (IMO) fresh ideas are required.  At a minimum I’d like to see a new coaching team around him.  I think he’s been fucked over by those above him, but I also can’t absolve him of blame.  

Apologies to all if I’ve acted the c***.  I’ll stay out of the Howe thread going forwards.  I know that those who have been fucked off with my comments are only wanting the best for the club - I’ll only state that I want that too. 
 

TL;DR - TBB has been a reactive twat, apologies. 

[ohmelads]

9 hours ago, Thumbheed said:

PIF saw our balance sheet before buying us, they saw our revenue and will have undoubtedly seen the revenues of the club's they eventually hope they eclipse. 

 

They'll have been fully aware of the risks and challenges that that gap in wealth would pose us and would have undoubtedly factored that into their calculations, and yet they still saw enough potential in us to hang around for 2 years whilst they were being publicly humilatiated before eventually being allowed to buy us.

 

At the first opportunity they publically stating their aim to be "Number 1", so I'm under no doubt that they were fully on board with what it would take to achieve that ambition.

 

Their £1bn total investment to turn us into a £1bn club is ample evidence of that. 

 

I think people often forget the fact they stood by us for 2 years before owning us.  

 

Things take time.

 

A bad summer transfer window is not indicative of an owners failing ambitions and interests, it's indicstive of someone willing to take the risks required to get us to where we want to be.

 

Were they "fully aware" of the risks? Was the number 1 claim sincere? We'll never know, but PIF make mistakes. It wouldn't be the first time they've made outlandish claims only to drastically downsize their ambitions when reality hit them in the face. Look at their Neom megaproject. Let's not forget that the rules were also changed a week after the takeover was completed. The rules are now changing again. On both occasions, those rules solidified the cartel's position and effectively made it impossible for clubs below them to grow beyond a certain glass ceiling. The ladder has been kicked away, and catching those clubs long term - by fair means or foul - is no longer possible. 

 

We have the 8th highest wage bill in the league. There has always been a strong long-term correlation between wage expenditure and finishing position. On that basis, 8th is our par, and any position above that is overachieving. The only way to increase our spending power is to increase our revenue, and the only realistic way to do that under the rules is a massive stadium. If PIF were serious about growth, I think we'd be seeing signs of this by now, given that it will take years to design, approve, and build. The other avenue is to challenge the anticompetitive rules and structures. The club have never pursued this, even while Man City were challenging the Premier League, scoring legal wins against them, and exhausting their legal budget. PIF's apparent apathy on both the stadium and the rules suggests that they may have got cold feet and concluded - like many people - that the cartel is too strong. Trying to look at it objectively, they'd be mad to fund a new stadium. The rules would just be changed again, as they were 6 days after our takeover. 

 

I personally think PIF underestimated the stranglehold the cartel have on the game, but have realised it now. Perhaps we'll become a forgotten part of their enormous portfolio, or they'll sell up and buy a cartel club when the chance presents itself. Those two seem more likely to me at this point. 

[macphisto]

12 hours ago, Thumbheed said:

PIF saw our balance sheet before buying us, they saw our revenue and will have undoubtedly seen the revenues of the club's they eventually hope they eclipse. 

 

They'll have been fully aware of the risks and challenges that that gap in wealth would pose us and would have undoubtedly factored that into their calculations, and yet they still saw enough potential in us to hang around for 2 years whilst they were being publicly humilatiated before eventually being allowed to buy us.

 

At the first opportunity they publically stating their aim to be "Number 1", so I'm under no doubt that they were fully on board with what it would take to achieve that ambition.

 

Their £1bn total investment to turn us into a £1bn club is ample evidence of that. 

 

I think people often forget the fact they stood by us for 2 years before owning us.  

 

Things take time.

 

A bad summer transfer window is not indicative of an owners failing ambitions and interests, it's indicstive of someone willing to take the risks required to get us to where we want to be.

An interesting thought experiment when it comes to PIF is how they would have acted if Howe had only done an OK job? Imagine if we had not got Champions League at this point or won a trophy. Say one or two seasons in the Europa League.

 

I wonder if they would have found ways to get money into the club? If not then we would be a very average team. By Howe doing such an incredible job, it's kind of masked PIF's true ambitions to a certain extent.

[bobbydazzla]

3 hours ago, ohmelads said:

 

Were they "fully aware" of the risks? Was the number 1 claim sincere? We'll never know, but PIF make mistakes. It wouldn't be the first time they've made outlandish claims only to drastically downsize their ambitions when reality hit them in the face. Look at their Neom megaproject. Let's not forget that the rules were also changed a week after the takeover was completed. The rules are now changing again. On both occasions, those rules solidified the cartel's position and effectively made it impossible for clubs below them to grow beyond a certain glass ceiling. The ladder has been kicked away, and catching those clubs long term - by fair means or foul - is no longer possible. 

 

We have the 8th highest wage bill in the league. There has always been a strong long-term correlation between wage expenditure and finishing position. On that basis, 8th is our par, and any position above that is overachieving. The only way to increase our spending power is to increase our revenue, and the only realistic way to do that under the rules is a massive stadium. If PIF were serious about growth, I think we'd be seeing signs of this by now, given that it will take years to design, approve, and build. The other avenue is to challenge the anticompetitive rules and structures. The club have never pursued this, even while Man City were challenging the Premier League, scoring legal wins against them, and exhausting their legal budget. PIF's apparent apathy on both the stadium and the rules suggests that they may have got cold feet and concluded - like many people - that the cartel is too strong. Trying to look at it objectively, they'd be mad to fund a new stadium. The rules would just be changed again, as they were 6 days after our takeover. 

 

I personally think PIF underestimated the stranglehold the cartel have on the game, but have realised it now. Perhaps we'll become a forgotten part of their enormous portfolio, or they'll sell up and buy a cartel club when the chance presents itself. Those two seem more likely to me at this point. 

Be careful if you decide to leave the house today, the sky might fall in. 
 

It’s easy to say PIF aren’t interested in NUFC if you mainly focus on the things you think they should have done that they haven’t done yet.

 

I could say my lass isn’t interested in me anymore because she hasn’t bought me a Ferrari. Completely ignoring the fact that last night she let us play my favourite Cindy & Wicksy roleplay at bedtime. 

 

PIF are moving us forward. Maybe not as fast as some would like, but we’re moving forward. That is a fact.

 

Just try and enjoy it.
 

There’s better things to do in life than get your y-fronts in a twist coming up with theories about why PIF have given up on NUFC. 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 29 by bobbydazzla

[geordiesteve710]

4 hours ago, ohmelads said:

 

Were they "fully aware" of the risks? Was the number 1 claim sincere? We'll never know, but PIF make mistakes. It wouldn't be the first time they've made outlandish claims only to drastically downsize their ambitions when reality hit them in the face. Look at their Neom megaproject. Let's not forget that the rules were also changed a week after the takeover was completed. The rules are now changing again. On both occasions, those rules solidified the cartel's position and effectively made it impossible for clubs below them to grow beyond a certain glass ceiling. The ladder has been kicked away, and catching those clubs long term - by fair means or foul - is no longer possible. 

 

We have the 8th highest wage bill in the league. There has always been a strong long-term correlation between wage expenditure and finishing position. On that basis, 8th is our par, and any position above that is overachieving. The only way to increase our spending power is to increase our revenue, and the only realistic way to do that under the rules is a massive stadium. If PIF were serious about growth, I think we'd be seeing signs of this by now, given that it will take years to design, approve, and build. The other avenue is to challenge the anticompetitive rules and structures. The club have never pursued this, even while Man City were challenging the Premier League, scoring legal wins against them, and exhausting their legal budget. PIF's apparent apathy on both the stadium and the rules suggests that they may have got cold feet and concluded - like many people - that the cartel is too strong. Trying to look at it objectively, they'd be mad to fund a new stadium. The rules would just be changed again, as they were 6 days after our takeover. 

 

I personally think PIF underestimated the stranglehold the cartel have on the game, but have realised it now. Perhaps we'll become a forgotten part of their enormous portfolio, or they'll sell up and buy a cartel club when the chance presents itself. Those two seem more likely to me at this point. 

The only thing thing to add to this is that the rules weren't being enforced with points deductions at the time- that only became a "thing" during 2023/24 and ended up with us scrambling to avoid a points deductions in the last week of June.

 

I agree with you that PIF are far from being strategic geniuses. My guess is that they will keep the club ticking over but without spending lavish sums, in the short-medium term at least. Which means scouting, recruitment and player trading will all be crucial.

[Abacus]

8 hours ago, TheBrownBottle said:

I’m one of those people on here who’ve been very critical of late.  For context, I’m a bit of worrier - I’ll often express frustrations through football.  I suspect I’m not alone, but football for me was always tribalistic and a means for ‘venting steam’.  That isn’t much of a justification; but it’s what a club what has dominated parts of my life for four decades sometimes is. 
 

I can see that plenty have been fucked-off with the negativity (as in mine).  I’m as guilty as anyone on that front - Sunderland would be the ne plus ultra of it.  I was furious - not gloating. 
 

Apologies if I’ve contributed to making folks’ experience on here a negative one.  I can only say it wasn’t my intent - football (in particular NUFC) was always a focal point of frustration. 
 

I can’t say I take back all of my concerns re direction of travel - I maintain that Howe is level with KK re best NUFC managers, but I’m not entirely convinced that he’s the man to take us forwards.  That doesn’t mean I think he’s shit or a terrible man - I think the opposite.  But sometimes (IMO) fresh ideas are required.  At a minimum I’d like to see a new coaching team around him.  I think he’s been fucked over by those above him, but I also can’t absolve him of blame.  

Apologies to all if I’ve acted the c***.  I’ll stay out of the Howe thread going forwards.  I know that those who have been fucked off with my comments are only wanting the best for the club - I’ll only state that I want that too. 
 

TL;DR - TBB has been a reactive twat, apologies. 

 

That's a brave post, I appreciated it. You're a good poster and make some good points even if I personally disagree with some of them. I also use football as a bit of a steam valve at times, I think everyone does.

 

I think a lot of people share similar thoughts at times, but it can be a bit depressing sometimes to have those views repeated when we're a bit down as a fan base - that there is by no means aimed at you, by the way. Likewise some people use it as positive escapism, some might say overly positive.

 

I'm probably in the latter camp, preferring to see the positives meaning it can feel like a kick in the teeth when it goes wrong. Some might say I need a reality check in that case; but I'd prefer not to have one when football is where my escapist dreams often go to.

 

The short of it being, you're never offensive, you express your genuine worries in a thoughtful way, you clearly care about the team. There's nothing to stop people expressing negative views when they're valid and despite the highs of this season there have also been lows and we can't deny them either. But that's the football rollercoaster, after all.

[Holloway]

9 hours ago, TheBrownBottle said:

I’m one of those people on here who’ve been very critical of late.  For context, I’m a bit of worrier - I’ll often express frustrations through football.  I suspect I’m not alone, but football for me was always tribalistic and a means for ‘venting steam’.  That isn’t much of a justification; but it’s what a club what has dominated parts of my life for four decades sometimes is. 
 

I can see that plenty have been fucked-off with the negativity (as in mine).  I’m as guilty as anyone on that front - Sunderland would be the ne plus ultra of it.  I was furious - not gloating. 
 

Apologies if I’ve contributed to making folks’ experience on here a negative one.  I can only say it wasn’t my intent - football (in particular NUFC) was always a focal point of frustration. 
 

I can’t say I take back all of my concerns re direction of travel - I maintain that Howe is level with KK re best NUFC managers, but I’m not entirely convinced that he’s the man to take us forwards.  That doesn’t mean I think he’s shit or a terrible man - I think the opposite.  But sometimes (IMO) fresh ideas are required.  At a minimum I’d like to see a new coaching team around him.  I think he’s been fucked over by those above him, but I also can’t absolve him of blame.  

Apologies to all if I’ve acted the c***.  I’ll stay out of the Howe thread going forwards.  I know that those who have been fucked off with my comments are only wanting the best for the club - I’ll only state that I want that too. 
 

TL;DR - TBB has been a reactive twat, apologies. 

They're your views, you don't need to apologise for them 👍

[bobbydazzla]

Like lots of things in life, it’s about balance.

 

Good things happen, bad things happen, try to enjoy the good ones as much as you can and try not to get too down about the bad ones.

 

If something you choose to do for enjoyment becomes something you can no longer take any joy from, then either reassess your mindset or stop doing the thing for a while to see if you get your enthusiasm back. 
 

Don't be blindly optimistic, don’t be blindly pessimistic. Have balance. 

[robbo_11]

1 hour ago, geordiesteve710 said:

The only thing thing to add to this is that the rules weren't being enforced with points deductions at the time- that only became a "thing" during 2023/24 and ended up with us scrambling to avoid a points deductions in the last week of June.

 

I agree with you that PIF are far from being strategic geniuses. My guess is that they will keep the club ticking over but without spending lavish sums, in the short-medium term at least. Which means scouting, recruitment and player trading will all be crucial.

 

On reflection with us sticking to the rules that year to avoid a point deduction we lost Minteh and Anderson, whilst taking on board Vlach who we didn't really want. If Anderson moves for over £80m this season this financially will have caught us out. With the recent news about Chelsea it just makes a mockery of it all - we were scrambling to not be penalised based on our financial position whereas Chelsea gained a sporting advantage for years through illegal payments. 

 

The game is moving away solely from what happens on the pitch which might contribute to those fans that miss the 'older days' to balance sheets and court rooms (kangaroo ones in some cases).

 

Have we progressed in the last four years? Yes... just not as quick as some fans would have wanted. I'd have loved a new training ground and stadium announced in their first season, but the pressing issues were management and players given we were looking at a relegation so I'd take that focus with European campaigns and a trophy today. With some senior leadership in place and a signed off plan I can't see any hold up with infrastructure if this is the route they want to go down.

[Rich]

Canny post. I’d personally feel miles less miserable if the off-pitch stuff was even remotely keeping pace with the on-pitch progress. Howe’s not perfect, but he’s been consistently let down from above since Staveley was elbowed out. Our executive hires have been largely poor, but the jury is still very much out on the current lot.

[STM]

9 hours ago, TheBrownBottle said:

I’m one of those people on here who’ve been very critical of late.  For context, I’m a bit of worrier - I’ll often express frustrations through football.  I suspect I’m not alone, but football for me was always tribalistic and a means for ‘venting steam’.  That isn’t much of a justification; but it’s what a club what has dominated parts of my life for four decades sometimes is. 
 

I can see that plenty have been fucked-off with the negativity (as in mine).  I’m as guilty as anyone on that front - Sunderland would be the ne plus ultra of it.  I was furious - not gloating. 
 

Apologies if I’ve contributed to making folks’ experience on here a negative one.  I can only say it wasn’t my intent - football (in particular NUFC) was always a focal point of frustration. 
 

I can’t say I take back all of my concerns re direction of travel - I maintain that Howe is level with KK re best NUFC managers, but I’m not entirely convinced that he’s the man to take us forwards.  That doesn’t mean I think he’s shit or a terrible man - I think the opposite.  But sometimes (IMO) fresh ideas are required.  At a minimum I’d like to see a new coaching team around him.  I think he’s been fucked over by those above him, but I also can’t absolve him of blame.  

Apologies to all if I’ve acted the c***.  I’ll stay out of the Howe thread going forwards.  I know that those who have been fucked off with my comments are only wanting the best for the club - I’ll only state that I want that too. 
 

TL;DR - TBB has been a reactive twat, apologies. 

 

Ive not posted in 3 months but you deserve massive credit for posting that. 

 

Dont stay out of any threads and dont stop posting... Just show people this side of you more often. 

[TRon]

4 hours ago, bobbydazzla said:

Be careful if you decide to leave the house today, the sky might fall in. 
 

It’s easy to say PIF aren’t interested in NUFC if you mainly focus on the things you think they should have done that they haven’t done yet.

 

I could say my lass isn’t interested in me anymore because she hasn’t bought me a Ferrari. Completely ignoring the fact that last night she let us play my favourite Cindy & Wicksy roleplay at bedtime. 

 

PIF are moving us forward. Maybe not as fast as some would like, but we’re moving forward. That is a fact.

 

Just try and enjoy it.
 

There’s better things to do in life than get your y-fronts in a twist coming up with theories about why PIF have given up on NUFC. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Spot on. Anyway, what's the alternative? Let's just enjoy it while we can. It's not been a great season but not for want of trying. 

[PauloGeordio]

2 hours ago, STM said:

 

Ive not posted in 3 months but you deserve massive credit for posting that. 

 

Dont stay out of any threads and dont stop posting... Just show people this side of you more often. 

Good to see you posting again. 

[TRon]

3 hours ago, Holloway said:

They're your views, you don't need to apologise for them 👍

 

 

Yeah I don't think there's any need for an apology. @TheBrownBottle is a good poster and he backs his views up with reasoning. You don't have to agree with it, but that's what the forums are for. No one here is a professional, we might all be talking shit at the end of the day. 

[Keegans Export]

6 hours ago, macphisto said:

I wonder if they would have found ways to get money into the club? If not then we would be a very average team. By Howe doing such an incredible job, it's kind of masked PIF's true ambitions to a certain extent.

They've been very fortunate up to this point that their manager (and obviously, credit for hiring him in the first place has to be given) has taken the 7th/8th most expensive squad and finished 4th, 7th and 5th. And won a cup.

[Holloway]

13 minutes ago, TRon said:

 

 

Yeah I don't think there's any need for an apology. @TheBrownBottle is a good poster and he backs his views up with reasoning. You don't have to agree with it, but that's what the forums are for. No one here is a professional, we might all be talking shit at the end of the day. 

Aye he seems a good lad, but the point I'm making is that it's not that important, unless you've been a complete cunt about things 

[Mike]

13 hours ago, TheBrownBottle said:

I’ll often express frustrations through football.

 

 If I spoke about real life the way I speak about Sports I'd be on a list. I'm completely the same. It's a sickener because the escapism is almost as shit as the shit I'm escaping.

[Colos Short and Curlies]

I wonder if we see the arse fall out of the Saudi League this summer, going to be a hard sell getting people over there with a war on the doorstep.

 

With the Saudis still needing to showcase the world cup it would be handy if they had another asset they could use.

[The Prophet]

They're allegedly trying to shift the four Saudi-based clubs they own before buying four more.

[McDog]

15 hours ago, TheBrownBottle said:

I’m one of those people on here who’ve been very critical of late.  For context, I’m a bit of worrier - I’ll often express frustrations through football.  I suspect I’m not alone, but football for me was always tribalistic and a means for ‘venting steam’.  That isn’t much of a justification; but it’s what a club what has dominated parts of my life for four decades sometimes is. 
 

I can see that plenty have been fucked-off with the negativity (as in mine).  I’m as guilty as anyone on that front - Sunderland would be the ne plus ultra of it.  I was furious - not gloating. 
 

Apologies if I’ve contributed to making folks’ experience on here a negative one.  I can only say it wasn’t my intent - football (in particular NUFC) was always a focal point of frustration. 
 

I can’t say I take back all of my concerns re direction of travel - I maintain that Howe is level with KK re best NUFC managers, but I’m not entirely convinced that he’s the man to take us forwards.  That doesn’t mean I think he’s shit or a terrible man - I think the opposite.  But sometimes (IMO) fresh ideas are required.  At a minimum I’d like to see a new coaching team around him.  I think he’s been fucked over by those above him, but I also can’t absolve him of blame.  

Apologies to all if I’ve acted the c***.  I’ll stay out of the Howe thread going forwards.  I know that those who have been fucked off with my comments are only wanting the best for the club - I’ll only state that I want that too. 
 

TL;DR - TBB has been a reactive twat, apologies. 

 

 

You've been an interesting poster and as others have said, no need to apologize. For what it's worth, when I see you've posted something I do think "What's is he going to point out now that has gone wrong this time".  No offense intended by the way. Things you point out make sense. I guess as @Mike said, sports are a good escape unless both real life and your team are going bad, then it just makes it worse I guess. I've been staying away a bit as I'm an optimist and things at home are rough with my wife's health not going so great so talking Newcastle football as of late is depressing instead of interesting when I try and get away from it.  Anyway, onwards and upwards and keep posting. I suppose I could block everyone but @PauloGeordio then it would be a happy place! Let's hope for a strong finish to build on next year.

 

 

Edited March 29 by McDog

[Hovagod]

32 minutes ago, McDog said:

 

 

You've been an interesting poster and as others have said, no need to apologize. For what it's worth, when I see you've posted something I do think "What's is he going to point out now that has gone wrong this time".  No offense intended by the way. Things you point out make sense. I guess as @Mike said, sports are a good escape unless both real life and your team are going bad, then it just makes it worse I guess. I've been staying away a bit as I'm an optimist and things at home are rough with my wife's health not going so great so talking Newcastle football as of late is depressing instead of interesting when I try and get away from it.  Anyway, onwards and upwards and keep posting. I suppose I could block everyone but @PauloGeordio then it would be a happy place! Let's hope for a strong finish to build on next year.

 

 

 

Sorry to hear about your wife’s health, mate, hope that improves first and foremost.