If not Howe, then who?

[r0cafella]

1 minute ago, Superior Acuña said:

 

If how a club perceives is a measure of the trophy though -  and so we're not counting ManU's Europa -  then Roma's Conf League *should* count, because they were very happy with that.

 

I broadly agree he's past it and should not be a serious consideration though. 

It was an example of him not being world class these days or desirable for us imo. 

[Stal]

I have no doubts that Mourinho is a great manager, but for me he is great in only two places;

 

1) chelsea

2) abroad

 

Respect for what he's achieved but I don't want him here.

 

[andycap]

4 minutes ago, Stal said:

I have no doubts that Mourinho is a great manager, but for me he is great in only two places;

 

1) chelsea

2) abroad

 

Respect for what he's achieved but I don't want him here.

 

Inter Madrid he was great aswell porto winning the champions league isn't to be sniffed at either. 

[Stal]

4 minutes ago, andycap said:

Inter Madrid he was great aswell porto winning the champions league isn't to be sniffed at either. 

 

I'm a massive Inter Madrid fan.

[HayDen Traces]

5 minutes ago, andycap said:

Inter Madrid he was great aswell porto winning the champions league isn't to be sniffed at either. 

Didn't he get Spurs to a cup final before they sacked him?

[Guybrush]

1 hour ago, Wallsendmag said:

 

When did this happen mate?

Ah kna it's a Mackem talking point, but it did happen in some circles whether we want to admit it or not. Plenty of media at the time picked up on it too (eg https://www.skysports.com/football/news/2277260/robson-hurt-by-boo-boys) 

 

I feel like this Howe Out stuff has parallels, and I don't think that is a radical observation 

 

 

[Milburn]

Mourinho’s clear soft spot for Newcastle and the link to Sir Bobby makes it interesting on some level, but hopefully we look at other candidates.

[Slim]

Kind hope we get him so all these idiot's see he's washed up and we can't stop mentioning his name again. 

[TheEntertainer]

I'd take Mourinho, he'd not be top of my list but he gets a lot of unfair criticism because of how he is as a person.  

 

He was unreal at Porto, then at Chelsea, then at Inter, then at Real, came back to Chelsea and was great again. Went to a declining Man Utd and given what we've seen since was actually a success, winning the double in his first season and then finishing 2nd in the Prem the season after. Bear in mind what we've seen of Man Utd since then.

 

He then went to Spurs and was a bit spotty there, BUT was sacked days before the league cup final and finished 6th in his first season which is about right for Spurs? 

 

He then went to Roma and they won their first trophy in 11 years under him (conference league so not massive, but I'd be overjoyed with that for Newcastle), in his second season they got to the Europa League final and lost on pens. 

 

He then went to Fenerbahce and finished 2nd in his first season, though that spell was definitely messy as he didn't like the Turkish league at all. I think he talked himself out of a job there. 

 

He's currently back at Benfica where they qualified for the knockouts of the Champions league and are 3rd in the league (2 points off second) that's about right for them as well. They probably want to be first, but that's not easy in a league with 3 massive teams. The last 5 years they've finished 1st once, 2nd twice and 3rd twice. 

 

I can't see where he's ever really underachieved? Sure he's not winning the Champions league every season like he was, but that's a bit of an unfair standard to hold someone to! 

 

 

[Kid Icarus]

If par is 8th based on wages

 

and we've finished: 4th, 7th, 5th, then let's say anything from 8th to 15th with loads of mitigating circumstances. 

 

Exactly what is the expectation of a new manager? That we get someone capable of punching even higher above our weight than that? But that also isn't either already at a top club or going to be snapped up by one? Honestly, the more you think about it, the more unhinged it all sounds. 

[r0cafella]

Just now, Kid Icarus said:

If par is 8th based on wages

 

and we've finished: 4th, 7th, 5th, then let's say anything from 8th to 15th with loads of mitigating circumstances. 

 

Exactly what is the expectation of a new manager? That we get someone capable of punching even higher above our weight than that? But that also isn't either already at a top club or going to be snapped up by one? Honestly, the more you think about it, the more unhinged it all sounds. 

Expectation always has to be par for me. That being said I do believe the club counts par as the minimum. 

[TheEntertainer]

Just now, Kid Icarus said:

If par is 8th based on wages

 

and we've finished: 4th, 7th, 5th, then let's say anything from 8th to 15th with loads of mitigating circumstances. 

 

Exactly what is the expectation of a new manager? That we get someone capable of punching even higher above our weight than that? But that also isn't either already at a top club or going to be snapped up by one? Honestly, the more you think about it, the more unhinged it all sounds. 

The problem isn't how close or not we are to par this season, the league position of 14th is definitely a contributing factor, but it's more the fact that we've been awful all season, looked mentally weak, are unable to hold onto leads, don't seem willing to try anything other than the tried and tested (even though it isn't working) and don't seem to be able to respond to other managers changes in games. It feels like Eddie's time is up to me, not because he isn't a great manager, just because managers tend to have a shelf life at any club and only the best of the best or those with unlimited funds (or both) can reset and go again when things stop working and he doesn't seem to know how to fix the current problems when his plan A isn't working anymore. 

[Kid Icarus]

13 minutes ago, TheEntertainer said:

The problem isn't how close or not we are to par this season, the league position of 14th is definitely a contributing factor, but it's more the fact that we've been awful all season, looked mentally weak, are unable to hold onto leads, don't seem willing to try anything other than the tried and tested (even though it isn't working) and don't seem to be able to respond to other managers changes in games. It feels like Eddie's time is up to me, not because he isn't a great manager, just because managers tend to have a shelf life at any club and only the best of the best or those with unlimited funds (or both) can reset and go again when things stop working and he doesn't seem to know how to fix the current problems when his plan A isn't working anymore. 

 

This whole 'managers have a shelf life at clubs' thing that I keep seeing doing the rounds is an odd one. It appears to just be something that a group of people have decided is a thing without there really being any clear evidence for it and imo could be much more accurately described as 'when things go to shit, no matter what the reason, the manager is usually the fall guy, so let's do that as well'

 

I do agree that things do often come to a natural end, but it seems to me more like a self-fulfilling prophecy with Howe and a section of our fans at the moment like. If they backed him with faith, as they should be imo, I don't think the notion of things coming to a natural end would even factor into this. Everyone has the autonomy to step back and look at his full body of work and not indulge in thinking that one poor season, with a ton of mitigating and contributing circumstances, means that the thing that needs to change before everything else is the manager. Considering what he's given us, he should be one of the last things to change. 

 

 

Edited April 16 by Kid Icarus

[TRon]

18 minutes ago, Kid Icarus said:

If par is 8th based on wages

 

and we've finished: 4th, 7th, 5th, then let's say anything from 8th to 15th with loads of mitigating circumstances. 

 

Exactly what is the expectation of a new manager? That we get someone capable of punching even higher above our weight than that? But that also isn't either already at a top club or going to be snapped up by one? Honestly, the more you think about it, the more unhinged it all sounds. 

 

It's not one bad season that's the problem, it's the lack of direction or seeming unability to put things right. If anything's been unhinged this season it's the football we are playing. I don't think Howe will want to replace proven stars with hopefuls either, and I have a feeling that will be our transfer policy this season. He might walk if he doesn't get to choose which players come and go. 

[Kid Icarus]

Just now, TRon said:

 

It's not one bad season that's the problem, it's the lack of direction or seeming unability to put things right. If anything's been unhinged this season it's the football we are playing. I don't think Howe will want to replace proven stars with hopefuls either, and I have a feeling that will be our transfer policy this season. He might walk if he doesn't get to choose which players come and go. 

 

All of the things you're describing there are contained within this one bad season. You can say the signs were there beforehand or whatever, but the reality is still that every season before this has been a successful one. 

[Skeletor]

Absolutely massive no to Mourinho. Bloke's the definition of a hasbeen.

[andycap]

42 minutes ago, Slim said:

Kind hope we get him so all these idiot's see he's washed up and we can't stop mentioning his name again. 

Not idiots just opinions lad. 

[TRon]

4 minutes ago, Kid Icarus said:

 

All of the things you're describing there are contained within this one bad season. You can say the signs were there beforehand or whatever, but the reality is still that every season before this has been a successful one. 

 

I think the board will want to give him another shot anyway based on his past success. A lot will depend on if our transfer policy changes and if Howe thinks he can deliver with squad we end up with. He's said he's happy enough to continue as long as expectations match that squad, and I think that's fair enough. Would still be about finishing in Europe is my guess. 

[TheEntertainer]

19 minutes ago, Kid Icarus said:

 

This whole 'managers have a shelf life at clubs' thing that I keep seeing doing the rounds is an odd one. It appears to just be something that a group of people have decided is a thing without there really being any clear evidence for it and imo could be much more accurately described as 'when things go to shit, no matter what the reason, the manager is usually the fall guy, so let's do that as well'

 

I do agree that things do often come to a natural end, but it seems to me more like a self-fulfilling prophecy with Howe and a section of our fans at the moment like. If they backed him with faith, as they should be imo, I don't think the notion of things coming to a natural end would even factor into this. Everyone has the autonomy to step back and look at his full body of work and not indulge in thinking that one poor season, with a ton of mitigating and contributing circumstances, means that the thing that needs to change before everything else is the manager. Considering what he's given us, he should be one of the last things to change. 

 

 

 

Article on it here, where they talk about 3 years being a managerial cycle and to be successful after that period, managers need to re-invent themselves and their teams and continuing to try and do the same thing leads to failure. It's not fact like, but it's interesting. 

 

https://thesetpieces.com/latest-posts/football-managers-stay-clubs-three-years/

 

 

Edited April 16 by TheEntertainer

[bobbydazzla]

35 minutes ago, Kid Icarus said:

If par is 8th based on wages

 

and we've finished: 4th, 7th, 5th, then let's say anything from 8th to 15th with loads of mitigating circumstances. 

 

Exactly what is the expectation of a new manager? That we get someone capable of punching even higher above our weight than that? But that also isn't either already at a top club or going to be snapped up by one? Honestly, the more you think about it, the more unhinged it all sounds. 

 

My expectation would be that a new manager would stop us from chucking away points from decent positions game after game after game.

 

Through the winning attitude he instils in the players, the tactics he employs, the in-game changes. With our financial constraints we need to a wily team, a team that other teams hate playing against. If we get ahead we do everything we possibly can to stay ahead. 

 

We're none of those things. We're a proper fucking soft touch. Soft as clarts. And absolutely predictable too. In how he play and how we capitulate.

 

I feel like Eddie's completely lost his mojo. Maybe he has, or maybe it's just a blip. 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 16 by bobbydazzla

[Bunk Moreland]

"Outgoing Bournemouth manager Andoni Iraola would also be open to a move to St James Park should a vacancy arise."

This was buried in that Talksport article about Mourinho

 

https://talksport.com/football/4187544/jose-mourinho-contender-newcastle-premier-league-eddie-howe/

[Kid Icarus]

Just now, bobbydazzla said:

 

My expectation would be that a new manager would stop us from chucking away points from decent positions game after game after game.

 

Through the winning attitude he instils in the players, the tactics he employs, the in-game changes. With our financial constraints we need to a wily team, a team that other teams hate playing against. 

 

We're not. We're a proper fucking soft touch. Soft as clarts. And absolutely predictable too. In how he play and how we capitulate.

 

I feel like Eddie's completely lost his mojo. Maybe he has, or maybe it's just a blip. 

 

 

 

 

And if we tick all of those boxes, while finishing in lower positions in the league...? We were no pushovers under Rafa, for example. 

[r0cafella]

@Kid Icarus what does Eddie staying look like? 

 

My biggest actual concern is, we stick with him fully back home with more handpicked signings and he can't turn it around and is binned in October. 

[bobbydazzla]

11 minutes ago, Kid Icarus said:

 

And if we tick all of those boxes, while finishing in lower positions in the league...? We were no pushovers under Rafa, for example. 

 

If we tick all of those boxes with the resources we have under PIF then we shouldn't be finishing in lower positions in the league.

 

Comparing Ashley era to now is a flawed exercise. The scenario at the club was completely different in terms of resource and ambition.

 

 

 

Edited April 16 by bobbydazzla

[Kid Icarus]

10 minutes ago, TheEntertainer said:

Article on it here, where they talk about 3 years being a managerial cycle and to be successful after that period, managers need to re-invent themselves and their teams and continuing to try and do the same thing leads to failure. It's not fact like, but it's interesting. 

 

https://thesetpieces.com/latest-posts/football-managers-stay-clubs-three-years/

 

 

 

I think a lot of that holds true tbh, but I think it's again something in the plus column for a manager that you already know can produce the goods if they're given the opportunity to go again. Personally I do think we're in transition and I've been saying that all season, at the moment we're neither a new team, nor the one we've been. Hopefully next season we'll be fully Howe 2.0 and it'll be just as, if not more successful than Howe 1.0. 

 

This basically: