et tu brute Posted February 10, 2022 Share Posted February 10, 2022 3 hours ago, HTT II said: But transformed our club, if not for SJH, there would be no PIF, just a reminder… In the same case if it wasn’t for Hall we wouldn’t have had 14 years of no hope and absolute purgatory either. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest HTT II Posted February 10, 2022 Share Posted February 10, 2022 11 minutes ago, et tu brute said: In the same case if it wasn’t for Hall we wouldn’t have had 14 years of no hope and absolute purgatory either. I know which person of anyone I’d have chose or wanted owning our club at some point in its history and SJH stands above all overs, again, without him we wouldn’t even have a club. Many fans were delirious with Ashley at the start, he wasn’t to know how shit he’d be as an owner like us fans weren’t… it’s a stupid POV anyway, dumb in fact. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
et tu brute Posted February 10, 2022 Share Posted February 10, 2022 1 minute ago, HTT II said: I know which person of anyone I’d have chose or wanted owning our club at some point in its history and SJH stands above all overs, again, without him we wouldn’t even have a club. Many fans were delirious with Ashley at the start, he wasn’t to know how shit he’d be as an owner like us fans weren’t… it’s a stupid POV anyway, dumb in fact. He sold out at the first opportunity he had. Ashley had a terrible reputation even back then. He even went behind Shepherds back to get it done. It certainly isn’t a stupid POV either. One person put this club on the map and that’s Keegan. Keegan had to threaten to walk away to sign Kilkline. You might not want to blame Hall for selling to Ashley, but I certainly do. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
huss9 Posted February 10, 2022 Share Posted February 10, 2022 the bairn has an u14 game at benfield lunchtime sunday so we're cutting it fine for villa. how long do they keep the turnstlies open? any of them in the gallowgate stay open all game, or the first half at least? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HaydnNUFC Posted February 10, 2022 Share Posted February 10, 2022 3 minutes ago, et tu brute said: He sold out at the first opportunity he had. Ashley had a terrible reputation even back then. He even went behind Shepherds back to get it done. It certainly isn’t a stupid POV either. One person put this club on the map and that’s Keegan. Keegan had to threaten to walk away to sign Kilkline. You might not want to blame Hall for selling to Ashley, but I certainly do. Disagree with that, like. Without Hall there would've been no Keegan and/or likely no NUFC. Given that he launched a battle against McKeag and the previous board as far back as 1988, eventually took over after the failure of the share issue in 1991 with the debts and frosty relationship the club had with NCC due to the state of SJP post Taylor Report, to give Hall no credit for where the club went and where it is now is wide of the mark for me. Granted, he was a Thatcher supporting Tory and did sell the club to Ashley but his role in the club's history and his legacy are still there to be seen and can't be denied. Hall put the club on the map by fighting to democratise it, eventually taking over and appointing Keegan, reneging on his reluctance on the Kilcline deal to bring him back as he knew there they were the only two people who could save NUFC, as he said to Keegan on the phone. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
et tu brute Posted February 10, 2022 Share Posted February 10, 2022 (edited) 14 minutes ago, HaydnNUFC said: Disagree with that, like. Without Hall there would've been no Keegan and/or likely no NUFC. Given that he launched a battle against McKeag and the previous board as far back as 1988, eventually took over after the failure of the share issue in 1991 with the debts and frosty relationship the club had with NCC due to the state of SJP post Taylor Report, to give Hall no credit for where the club went and where it is now is wide of the mark for me. Granted, he was a Thatcher supporting Tory and did sell the club to Ashley but his role in the club's history and his legacy are still there to be seen and can't be denied. Hall put the club on the map by fighting to democratise it, eventually taking over and appointing Keegan, reneging on his reluctance on the Kilcline deal to bring him back as he knew there they were the only two people who could save NUFC, as he said to Keegan on the phone. He tried to get a fan ownership which failed dramatically and the share issue he did introduce was one of the reasons Keegan left in the end. He did get Keegan to come into management to his credit, which was a definite game changer. He changed his mind on Kilkline because Keegan walked out. Hall to me is the person who sold out to Ashley and resulted in 14 years of absolute hell as a supporter. The same bloke also was on record a few times defending Ashley. Edited February 10, 2022 by et tu brute Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HaydnNUFC Posted February 10, 2022 Share Posted February 10, 2022 (edited) 7 minutes ago, et tu brute said: He tried to get a fan ownership which failed dramatically and the share issue he did introduce was one of the reasons Keegan left in the end. He did get Keegan to come into management to his credit, which was a definite game changer. He changed his mind because Keegan walked out. Hall to me is the person who sold out to Ashley and resulted in 14 years of absolute hell as a supporter. The same bloke also was on record a few times defending Ashley also. The share issue in '91 was attempted for part fan ownership but also it was mainly to service the club's debts. McKeag et al though were still present at the club and the fans didn't trust him or the non-Magpie Group members of the board so hardly anyone bought any, hence why McKeag sold his stake to Hall during 1991-92. The failure of it wasn't necessarily Hall's fault but it was a blessing in disguise. Also am happy to be shown but I haven't seen him defend Ashley on the record. Either way Hall's legacy at NUFC is still all here to be seen and him selling to Ashley doesn't change that. Edited February 10, 2022 by HaydnNUFC Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest HTT II Posted February 10, 2022 Share Posted February 10, 2022 KK signed for Ashley as manager, therefore vouching for him, the Tory traitor cunt! Let’s scrub him from history. AS and PIF dealt with Ashley, scum! Bring back McKeag, Pardew and Carroll!111 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
et tu brute Posted February 10, 2022 Share Posted February 10, 2022 (edited) 35 minutes ago, HTT II said: KK signed for Ashley as manager, therefore vouching for him, the Tory traitor cunt! Let’s scrub him from history. AS and PIF dealt with Ashley, scum! Bring back McKeag, Pardew and Carroll!111 Keegan soon fucked off and he wasn’t responsible for the club being sold to that cunt. As I said you’re entitled to your opinion, mines different. Edited February 11, 2022 by et tu brute Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteV Posted February 10, 2022 Share Posted February 10, 2022 28 minutes ago, huss9 said: the bairn has an u14 game at benfield lunchtime sunday so we're cutting it fine for villa. how long do they keep the turnstlies open? any of them in the gallowgate stay open all game, or the first half at least? I believe they’re open until near to half time. Certainly if you’re only 10/15 mins late you’ll be alright. I have heard people say that if you get there and they’re shut, if you find a steward they’ll let you in through the wheelchair access. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
et tu brute Posted February 10, 2022 Share Posted February 10, 2022 (edited) 21 minutes ago, HaydnNUFC said: The share issue in '91 was attempted for part fan ownership but also it was mainly to service the club's debts. McKeag et al though were still present at the club and the fans didn't trust him or the non-Magpie Group members of the board so hardly anyone bought any, hence why McKeag sold his stake to Hall during 1991-92. The failure of it wasn't necessarily Hall's fault but it was a blessing in disguise. Also am happy to be shown but I haven't seen him defend Ashley on the record. Either way Hall's legacy at NUFC is still all here to be seen and him selling to Ashley doesn't change that. Fan share issue would never work then or now (as the Trust proposal showed). As for defending Ashley just put a search in Google as they are there (for example to this day he still doesn’t regret selling to Ashley). As said to HTT different opinions. Edited February 10, 2022 by et tu brute Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
huss9 Posted February 10, 2022 Share Posted February 10, 2022 8 minutes ago, SteV said: I believe they’re open until near to half time. Certainly if you’re only 10/15 mins late you’ll be alright. I have heard people say that if you get there and they’re shut, if you find a steward they’ll let you in through the wheelchair access. cheers bud. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest HTT II Posted February 11, 2022 Share Posted February 11, 2022 I just don’t get all the hate for SJH, all because he sold the club to Ashley? Fucking bonkers if you ask me! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joey Posted February 11, 2022 Share Posted February 11, 2022 It's mental, he dragged us up when we we're all but done. If we're going off who sold to who, if the Saudi's do usher in this new successful era, is Ashley going to be lauded? I'm sure SJH had no idea it would be as bad as it was. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsunami Posted February 11, 2022 Share Posted February 11, 2022 Yeah, he might not have done his homework on Ashley or had the wool pulled over his eyes (and he clearly wanted out by that point) but, his work and vision took us from the brink of being where Sunderland are now to becoming a proper club again. Make no mistake we’d have remained a nothing club in a decrepit stadium without him. There’s no doubt at some point we’d have been taken over by someone but it wouldn’t look like it does today and I doubt very much that we’d have attracted the ultimate attention of Staveley and PIF. At the time there’s no doubt in my mind that Sunderland were in a far healthier position to kick on than us. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Groundhog63 Posted February 11, 2022 Share Posted February 11, 2022 My beef with Hall is simply that he, Shepherd and their families milked every penny they could from the club. Didn't put a farthing into it and waltzed off with millions. Empty warehouses rented and offices in Gibralter, also empty etc etc Obvs all along providing me with many memorable games that I lapped up. However it was all financed by debt. Huge debt paving the way for the cockney spiv. Rim the cunt all you like. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsunami Posted February 11, 2022 Share Posted February 11, 2022 I get that but, what was the alternative and ultimately where will we be in 5-10 years. Selling to Ashley in the very long run may well work out. SJH cut and ran and we’ve had to shit, let’s enjoy the ride from here. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wallsendmag Posted February 11, 2022 Share Posted February 11, 2022 (edited) 48 minutes ago, HTT II said: I just don’t get all the hate for SJH, all because he sold the club to Ashley? Fucking bonkers if you ask me! Totally agree with you there. SJH is the greatest thing to happen to NUFC, certainly in the modern day. If it wasn't for him coming in and wrestling the club away from Gordon Mckeag we wouldn't have the club we have today. He literally saved the club from complete oblivion. There would have been no KK retuning as manager, none of those magical days in the 90s, no 52,000 seater stadium, probably no Sir Bobby Robson managing us as him coming in was a consequence as to what had happened between 92-99. Mike Ashley looked the perfect owner at the time. A British, self made Billionaire with a background in sport. Certainly the fanbase were excited when it was announced he'd bought the club. In fact for me it was one of those moments when I'll always remember where I was when the news broke (The Benton Ale House). None of us knew what his true intentions were back then. He duped Hall, the same as he duped the rest of us. Edited February 11, 2022 by Wallsendmag Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid Icarus Posted February 11, 2022 Share Posted February 11, 2022 If Stan Seymour hadn't have won us the F.A Cup, we wouldn't have been as enticing a purchase for Ashley. Something to think about. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
christ Posted February 11, 2022 Share Posted February 11, 2022 SJH was a businessman at the end of the day. This wasn’t a charitable endeavour. He had a group of people around him who could see the commercial potential of the Premier League and he made sure we were able to ride the crest of that wave. He also made sure he was well remunerated for his work. I don’t begrudge him that because without it this club doesn’t exist as it does today. We had an owner who “never took a penny “ out of the club and it was the most miserable, soul crushing period imaginable. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Venkman Posted February 11, 2022 Share Posted February 11, 2022 12 hours ago, SteV said: I believe they’re open until near to half time. Certainly if you’re only 10/15 mins late you’ll be alright. I have heard people say that if you get there and they’re shut, if you find a steward they’ll let you in through the wheelchair access. At Everton a lad turned up after 37 minutes. Went for a pint on 43 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beth Posted February 11, 2022 Share Posted February 11, 2022 6 hours ago, Groundhog63 said: My beef with Hall is simply that he, Shepherd and their families milked every penny they could from the club. Didn't put a farthing into it and waltzed off with millions. Empty warehouses rented and offices in Gibralter, also empty etc etc Obvs all along providing me with many memorable games that I lapped up. However it was all financed by debt. Huge debt paving the way for the cockney spiv. Rim the cunt all you like. If it wasn't for SJH they'd have been no Keegan era. At the end of the day he was a business man and their goal is to make a profit. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest HTT II Posted February 11, 2022 Share Posted February 11, 2022 He didn’t take money out of the club, he sold his shares which others paid for, not the club… Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Groundhog63 Posted February 11, 2022 Share Posted February 11, 2022 24 minutes ago, HTT II said: He didn’t take money out of the club, he sold his shares which others paid for, not the club… Yep, neither he or Shepherd, any member of their families nor any subsidiary/shell companies they were involved with EVER took a red bean from the club. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest HTT II Posted February 11, 2022 Share Posted February 11, 2022 1 minute ago, Groundhog63 said: Yep, neither he or Shepherd, any member of their families nor any subsidiary/shell companies they were involved with EVER took a red bean from the club. Shepherd and Dougie did, SJH never, he never even took a directors pay IIRC. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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