St James' Park

[AyeDubbleYoo]

You’d have to investigate each site, yeah. Can’t guarantee it’s possible. I think Spurs did some lowering of the pitch. 

 

 

Edited February 16, 2022 by AyeDubbleYoo

[NE27]

Just now, madras said:

Arean site? I think there were tentative plans for the area but don't think anything solid.

 

I would be 50/50 on that personally. Certainly enough land there to create a pretty decent part of town that is currently a shithole really.

[madras]

Just now, NE27 said:

 

I would be 50/50 on that personally. Certainly enough land there to create a pretty decent part of town that is currently a shithole really.

I'd actually rather there than Castle Leazes.

[pedro111]

I have doubts that we could fill 70-80k consistently. I'd prefer an expanded Gallowgate and a redesign of the East stand to bring capacity up to 60-65k I think that is a more realistic capacity to fill week in week out.

[wyn davies]

1 minute ago, pedro111 said:

I have doubts that we could fill 70-80k consistently. I'd prefer an expanded Gallowgate and a redesign of the East stand to bring capacity up to 60-65k I think that is a more realistic capacity to fill week in week out.

Won't be allowed to expand the East Stand or polar side as it was when I was a kid, due to the residential area behind it , as was raised during the last redevelopment of the stadium 

[pedro111]

Just now, wyn davies said:

Won't be allowed to expand the East Stand or polar side as it was when I was a kid, due to the residential area behind it , as was raised during the last redevelopment of the stadium 

 

Yeah I was thinking of a more vertical stand using the same footprint maybe adding a few thousand on the capacity. Surely this could be possible, no?

[wyn davies]

1 minute ago, pedro111 said:

 

Yeah I was thinking of a more vertical stand using the same footprint maybe adding a few thousand on the capacity. Surely this could be possible, no?

Vertigo comes to mind 

[Dr Jinx]

2 minutes ago, pedro111 said:

I have doubts that we could fill 70-80k consistently. I'd prefer an expanded Gallowgate and a redesign of the East stand to bring capacity up to 60-65k I think that is a more realistic capacity to fill week in week out.

You’re thinking in the here and now, you haven’t factored in all the future development that both the Reubens and PIF could make in the area.

 

And about the metro, the station is over towards Strawberry place? Do the tracks run under SJP? 
 

The Camp Nou only goes down 8 meters below ground level but look what they can fit in there, they have a 100k capacity stadium that looks smaller than SJP from the outside.

[ponsaelius]

Out of the city centre is problematic not just because of the loss of character but because transport would be an absolute nightmare. SJP's central location works great because it's so easy for 52k people to filter into and out of the city throughout the day via various forms of transport which naturally route towards the centre anyway. 

 

An out of town stadium, even on a metro stop, with acres of parking (don't think such a site even exists) and with regular direct shuttle buses, would be a nightmare because of the bottleneck of everybody travelling there direct along the same route at 2pm and leaving at 4:50pm. Even much smaller stadiums with much better transport links have this issue.

 

The city centre location is great for the businesses and economy of the city - and vice versa it has also propped up our attendances for years. The location is a major part of the club's character and I'm 100% sure it was one of the things that helped sell the club to Staveley et al. 

 

The ground could be expanded to around 60k in its current form which would be fine for now. Alternatively going back to the 90s plan and building on Castle Leazes while effectively extending Leazes Park down to Strawberry Place would be one of the few ways you could actually enhance the setting and the stadium all at the same time.

[macphisto]

 

1 hour ago, NWMag said:

Appreciate everyone has different views,  I just don’t care about any listed buildings

I can understand where you're coming from to certain extent but when you see what the Old Town Hall in Newcastle used to be like and what we replaced it with then it's just criminal. Dan T Smith has a lot to answer for. Same with the Royal Arcade that got knocked down for Swan House roundabout. 

[NWMag]

36 minutes ago, Yorkie said:

 

This isn't true though; that's why they're protected...

Not being funny here but genuinely curious as to how you know what impact on my life the listed buildings have? 
 

I am quite confident that if every listed building the world disappeared, there would be absolutely no change to my life 

[madras]

1 minute ago, macphisto said:

 

I can understand where you're coming from to certain extent but when you see what the Old Town Hall in Newcastle used to be like and what we replaced it with then it's just criminal. Dan T Smith has a lot to answer for. Same with the Royal Arcade that got knocked down for Swan House roundabout. 

Yes and no, its that they were replaced with stuff of that time (got to say from what I saw of it I'm not a fan of the old town hall), if they'd replaced with stuff less brutalist and I say that as a bit of a fan, the loss wouldn't have been felt.

[macphisto]

13 minutes ago, ponsaelius said:

The ground could be expanded to around 60k in its current form which would be fine for now. Alternatively going back to the 90s plan and building on Castle Leazes while effectively extending Leazes Park down to Strawberry Place would be one of the few ways you could actually enhance the setting and the stadium all at the same time.

Fine for now is the key part and that's when we have a poor team. An increase of 8,000 is nowhere near enough when we are talking about possibly challenging for the Champions League in future, say 8 years, where the catchment area runs from the Scottish Borders to potentially Leeds as a lot of kids will turn away from Sunderland and Middlesbrough to follow Newcastle if we were successful. 

[Danh1]

16 minutes ago, ponsaelius said:

Out of the city centre is problematic not just because of the loss of character but because transport would be an absolute nightmare. SJP's central location works great because it's so easy for 52k people to filter into and out of the city throughout the day via various forms of transport which naturally route towards the centre anyway. 

 

An out of town stadium, even on a metro stop, with acres of parking (don't think such a site even exists) and with regular direct shuttle buses, would be a nightmare because of the bottleneck of everybody travelling there direct along the same route at 2pm and leaving at 4:50pm. Even much smaller stadiums with much better transport links have this issue.

 

The city centre location is great for the businesses and economy of the city - and vice versa it has also propped up our attendances for years. The location is a major part of the club's character and I'm 100% sure it was one of the things that helped sell the club to Staveley et al. 

 

The ground could be expanded to around 60k in its current form which would be fine for now. Alternatively going back to the 90s plan and building on Castle Leazes while effectively extending Leazes Park down to Strawberry Place would be one of the few ways you could actually enhance the setting and the stadium all at the same time.

Completely agree. Been to Brighton away a few times on the train and it’s just shite. Got to get a 20 min train from the city centre to essentially the middle of nowhere. 
 

Class leaving one of the bars in Newcastle city centre and following the sea of people up to SJP. 

[Dr Venkman]

25 minutes ago, madras said:

I'd actually rather there than Castle Leazes.

Can’t argue it’s not in the town centre!

[number37]

We're all understandably biased because this is a Newcastle United football forum after all and we do want what's best for the club but Leazes Terrace can never ever be demolished. It would be a cultural crime against Newcastle upon Tyne. Just as much as we care more about football, there'll be people (sadly) who don't like football. Even though I'm not religious, I'd still be against the idea of flattening St Paul's cathedral to make room for a new stadium for Chelsea. Extreme example, perhaps! 

 

Things like Leazes Park, Terrace and St Thomas' Crescent are what gives the ground such an iconic/legendary location. The city has lost a lot over the years in the name of "progress" - we need to be careful. 

 

I have faith though, we're ultimately owned by billionaire property developers with unlimited money and aspirations. If those plans from the mid 90s about the new stadium in Castle Leazes with a smaller arena where SJP is and an expanded park area can be dusted off and updated then that would be the ultimate for me personally. 

 

We've had worse problems. 

[Dr Venkman]

24 minutes ago, macphisto said:

 

I can understand where you're coming from to certain extent but when you see what the Old Town Hall in Newcastle used to be like and what we replaced it with then it's just criminal. Dan T Smith has a lot to answer for. Same with the Royal Arcade that got knocked down for Swan House roundabout. 

I am almost certain that Dan the Plan is about him. And I know All Fall Down is.

[Yorkie]

25 minutes ago, NWMag said:

Not being funny here but genuinely curious as to how you know what impact on my life the listed buildings have? 
 

I am quite confident that if every listed building the world disappeared, there would be absolutely no change to my life 

 

Beyond their actual functional use, heritage assets like listed buildings contribute enormously to the economy, tourism, education, community identity, familiarity/safety, settlement character and a sense of place. All of these aspects affect you because they affect all of us. 

 

Not to mention most of them are residential so if they all disappeared in one fell swoop we'd have a housing/affordability crisis!

[Sima]

 

This would be my overwhelming choice and wouldn't need us to relocate.  It shows that even a stadium the size of Wembley would easily fit into the Castle Leazes space.

 

Relocate the green area to where the stadium used to be with possibly some commercial, club office or museum space where the Leazes End currently is.

 

 

Edited February 16, 2022 by Sima

[Hovagod]

3 minutes ago, Sima said:

 

This would be my overwhelming choice and wouldn't need us to relocate.  It shows that even a stadium the size of Wembley would easily fit into the Castle Leazes space.

 

Relocate the green area to where the stadium used to be with possibly some commercial, club office or museum space where the Leazes End currently is.

Aw, let's just keep both of them.

[ponsaelius]

As much as what happened under T Dan is regrettable today it must be remembered through the lense of the time it happened. Progress was the name of the game and many of the pretty older buildings were crumbling or not fit for use in a changing society. Today we'd encourage adaptive re-use and rightly be far, far more careful with what is demolished but back then the economic and social priorities were far more important than that of heritage conservation. Rightly so, you could argue.

 

Flawed as he was I think he did overall want the best for the city. A key example being the housing. A lot of delapitated terraced housing which was cleared at the time for high rise often only happened the way it did because central government would fund slum clearance and rebuild but wouldn't fund renovation of the existing housing stock which was no longer fit for purpose. A case of taking what could be gained from the situation to the betterment of the immediate living outcomes - even if in hindsight it broke apart and atomised existing communities.

[ponsaelius]

5 minutes ago, Sima said:

 

This would be my overwhelming choice and wouldn't need us to relocate.  It shows that even a stadium the size of Wembley would easily fit into the Castle Leazes space.

 

Relocate the green area to where the stadium used to be with possibly some commercial, club office or museum space where the Leazes End currently is.

 

 

 

 

Leazes Park is listed so you couldn't get away with changing/building on that much of it. Move it further north west, sink it, steeper stands to minimise the footprint - and you could build a ground which only slightly encroaches the footprint of the existing listed park. That could be favourable especially if it comes with the carrot of an extended green space towards Strawberry Place and an improved setting for Leazes Terrace.

[madras]

11 minutes ago, Sima said:

 

This would be my overwhelming choice and wouldn't need us to relocate.  It shows that even a stadium the size of Wembley would easily fit into the Castle Leazes space.

 

Relocate the green area to where the stadium used to be with possibly some commercial, club office or museum space where the Leazes End currently is.

 

 

 

What would we need a spare 52k stadium for ? If its not flattened and landscaped at least make the stands a bit more modest allowing views of the new stadium and Leazes Terrace.

 

 

Edited February 16, 2022 by madras

[madras]

6 minutes ago, ponsaelius said:

As much as what happened under T Dan is regrettable today it must be remembered through the lense of the time it happened. Progress was the name of the game and many of the pretty older buildings were crumbling or not fit for use in a changing society. Today we'd encourage adaptive re-use and rightly be far, far more careful with what is demolished but back then the economic and social priorities were far more important than that of heritage conservation. Rightly so, you could argue.

 

Flawed as he was I think he did overall want the best for the city. A key example being the housing. A lot of delapitated terraced housing which was cleared at the time for high rise often only happened the way it did because central government would fund slum clearance and rebuild but wouldn't fund renovation of the existing housing stock which was no longer fit for purpose. A case of taking what could be gained from the situation to the betterment of the immediate living outcomes - even if in hindsight it broke apart and atomised existing communities.

Wasn't much if the issue the poor standard of the housing built to replace the slums, particularly Rye Hill flats etc ?

[TheGuv]

Really have to hope that safe standing takes off in the next few years and then we can hope for more than one person per seat for league games?