The right man is now available Freddy, what do you do?

[Dave]

Will Sam Allardyce be as effective without Sammy Lee and no doubt quite a few other members of his Bolton backroom staff? Something that struck me the other day when Lee was announced as Bolton manager proper.

 

Often these guys are good in their own right, but are made to look the bees' knees by the people they have around them being the ideal foil for them in other departments of the managing game. Of course it depends on if Allardyce could take "his "staff with him, but he's certainly lost Sammy Lee - a coach with a massive reputation in the game. Has to be taken into account.

 

 

Where are you getting all this Sammy Lee stuff from?

 

Eh?

[Parky]

....that he is some kind of jewel in Allardyces turban....? What is it based on? Seriously I'm interested...He's been part of the England set up for a while hasn't he?

[Dave]

He's been Allardyce's assistant/head coach for the past few years - think O'Neill and his troupe. I think Janitor's just assuming that they would be part of a team, a team that's obviously now broken up with Lee being appointed full time at Bolton.

 

Some info here: http://www.thefa.com/England/SeniorTeam/Coaches/Postings/2003/02/38387.htm

[80]

He only came in when Phil Brown left for Derby, didn't he? If anything, that would show Allardyce can recover from a setback and strengthen.

[Parky]

He's been Allardyce's assistant/head coach for the past few years - think O'Neill and his troupe. I think Janitor's just assuming that they would be part of a team, a team that's obviously now broken up with Lee being appointed full time at Bolton.

 

The Lee appointment is a defensive move by Bolton...They know summat is up hence Gartside's sudden change of stance and hot air reg compensation (which they have no hope of getting btw). Sam might have been planning to take Lee at some point, but I don't believe Lee is that vital however good he might have become.

It is more than likely that Sam won't reveal his hand till July.

 

[Dave]

Hairy muff.

[Dokko]

He's been Allardyce's assistant/head coach for the past few years - think O'Neill and his troupe. I think Janitor's just assuming that they would be part of a team, a team that's obviously now broken up with Lee being appointed full time at Bolton.

 

The Lee appointment is a defensive move by Bolton...They know summat is up hence Gartside's sudden change of stance and hot air reg compensation (which they have no hope of getting btw). Sam might have been planning to take Lee at some point, but I don't believe Lee is that vital however good he might have become.

It is more than likely that Sam won't reveal his hand till July.

 

 

The setup at Bolton is almost taking care of itself. Almost 30 backroom staff compared to 3 when SA arrived tells its own story.

 

Lee is going to keep things ticking over, and Gartside is hoping everyone can keep on doing what their doing without minimal disruption, he's already suggested Bolton don't need SA as much as people think.

 

Sammy Lee wont bring anything fresh to the table, in fact the more he tries to stamp his mark the more likely he will fail. Given this is his 1st job Gartside is in charge of the budget, that including selling Anelka which is on the cards and Sammy will just have to do the best he can. But by not challenging the budget decisions in place Sammy can expect some leeway if there is a dip in form and position for at least the 1st season he is there.

 

Speed i think was given the job as if SA did join the Toon he'd be the 1st off with his connections.

 

Brown = Sammy Lee, neither are important, what is important is the setup of the club which is mind blowing compared to what we have now, and its that reason i'd like to see SA here, as that regime and setup should forever remain and maybe a more flamboyant manager can take advantage of in the future if SA underachieves.

[Parky]

He's been Allardyce's assistant/head coach for the past few years - think O'Neill and his troupe. I think Janitor's just assuming that they would be part of a team, a team that's obviously now broken up with Lee being appointed full time at Bolton.

 

The Lee appointment is a defensive move by Bolton...They know summat is up hence Gartside's sudden change of stance and hot air reg compensation (which they have no hope of getting btw). Sam might have been planning to take Lee at some point, but I don't believe Lee is that vital however good he might have become.

It is more than likely that Sam won't reveal his hand till July.

 

 

The setup at Bolton is almost taking care of itself. Almost 30 backroom staff compared to 3 when SA arrived tells its own story.

 

Lee is going to keep things ticking over, and Gartside is hoping everyone can keep on doing what their doing without minimal disruption, he's already suggested Bolton don't need SA as much as people think.

 

Sammy Lee wont bring anything fresh to the table, in fact the more he tries to stamp his mark the more likely he will fail. Given this is his 1st job Gartside is in charge of the budget, that including selling Anelka which is on the cards and Sammy will just have to do the best he can. But by not challenging the budget decisions in place Sammy can expect some leeway if there is a dip in form and position for at least the 1st season he is there.

 

Speed i think was given the job as if SA did join the Toon he'd be the 1st off with his connections.

 

Brown = Sammy Lee, neither are important, what is important is the setup of the club which is mind blowing compared to what we have now, and its that reason i'd like to see SA here, as that regime and setup should forever remain and maybe a more flamboyant manager can take advantage of in the future if SA underachieves.

 

Good post TT. The tying up of Speed is another sign that Gartside is covering all bases.

[NE5]

It's very difficult to tell how it's going to pan out. Shepherd isn't the only one who's going to have a say. The Halls will have their opinions, and there may be another takeover bid on the horizon which is going to complicate things further. There may be a lot of negotiations behind the scenes.

 

Either way, if Roeder is going to be sacked, Shepherd must surely follow him if he has any honour. He's turning us into a laughing stock and damaging the reputation of the club. His continued presence would act as a deterrent to anyone of ability joining us.

 

Or to put it in a negative way, I'm quite sure that Freddie will be ducking and diving to save his own skin, and that's going to complicate matters.

 

tripe tbh.

 

 

[Baggio]

I don't think even Freddie's biggest backers could argue that the club has gone down hill massively over the past few years because of decisions made by him and the rest of the board, bringing in Allardyce would go some way to sorting out the mess they've put us in.

[Rich]

He's been Allardyce's assistant/head coach for the past few years - think O'Neill and his troupe. I think Janitor's just assuming that they would be part of a team, a team that's obviously now broken up with Lee being appointed full time at Bolton.

 

Some info here: http://www.thefa.com/England/SeniorTeam/Coaches/Postings/2003/02/38387.htm

 

Aye cheers for clearing that up for me Dave, mate. Dead hard to understand like!

 

Parky/TT: As far as "having the set-up" goes, you cannot tell me that Big Sam can be nailed-on to be as successful in running Newcastle United as he has been down at Bolton. It's a completely different kettle of fish, with a different chairman and with a structure that will require and complete and utter overhaul - something that could take years to fully accomplish. My point about Lee (a fucking top-quality coach, by all accounts) and the rest of Allardyce's team at Bolton was that it might be very difficult for him to recreate the success here, ESPECIALLY in the short-term - and it's not like managers have a long shelf-life here these days if we're not firing on practically all cylinders whenever we play.

 

I would have thought that Lee was one of the most pivotal aspects of Sam's set-up (although I did mention the "rest of his team") in the same post. Wasn't he pivotal at Liverpool under Houllier as well? He has a massive reputation in the game, man. Sam's certainly not going to bring all of them to SJP, especially not quickly. Things could be a lot less clear-cut than people like you are predicting if he does ever come here. I've always been in favour of Allardyce coming here and I would still welcome it, but I'm weary of people expecting far too much of him if he does ever arrive and therefore giving him a snowball in hell's chance from the get-go by having massively inflated expectations of what he can do for us.

 

You cannot fully compensate for having a team that has worked together for years, if they get split up. That was my point and I fail to see how it was that hard to comprehend, really. What have you heard about Sammy Lee, Parky? Isn't he all he's cracked up to be?

[Howaythelads]

I don't think even Freddie's biggest backers could argue that the club has gone down hill massively over the past few years because of decisions made by him and the rest of the board, bringing in Allardyce would go some way to sorting out the mess they've put us in.

 

Only if Allardyce, a man who would be appointed based on a track record that is inferior to other managers appointed by the Board does the business as expected of the other managers who were appointed.

[Parky]

He's been Allardyce's assistant/head coach for the past few years - think O'Neill and his troupe. I think Janitor's just assuming that they would be part of a team, a team that's obviously now broken up with Lee being appointed full time at Bolton.

 

Some info here: http://www.thefa.com/England/SeniorTeam/Coaches/Postings/2003/02/38387.htm

 

Aye cheers for clearing that up for me Dave, mate. Dead hard to understand like!

 

Parky/TT: As far as "having the set-up" goes, you cannot tell me that Big Sam can be nailed-on to be as successful in running Newcastle United as he has been down at Bolton. It's a completely different kettle of fish, with a different chairman and with a structure that will require and complete and utter overhaul - something that could take years to fully accomplish. My point about Lee (a fucking top-quality coach, by all accounts) and the rest of Allardyce's team at Bolton was that it might be very difficult for him to recreate the success here, ESPECIALLY in the short-term - and it's not like managers have a long shelf-life here these days if we're not firing on practically all cylinders whenever we play.

 

I would have thought that Lee was one of the most pivotal aspects of Sam's set-up (although I did mention the "rest of his team") in the same post. Wasn't he pivotal at Liverpool under Houllier as well? He has a massive reputation in the game, man. Sam's certainly not going to bring all of them to SJP, especially not quickly. Things could be a lot less clear-cut than people like you are predicting if he does ever come here. I've always been in favour of Allardyce coming here and I would still welcome it, but I'm weary of people expecting far too much of him if he does ever arrive and therefore giving him a snowball in hell's chance from the get-go by having massively inflated expectations of what he can do for us.

 

You cannot fully compensate for having a team that has worked together for years, if they get split up. That was my point and I fail to see how it was that hard to comprehend, really. What have you heard about Sammy Lee, Parky? Isn't he all he's cracked up to be?

 

If you ask around opinions seem to be that he is a good assistant manager/coach and he has deffo done his time in various set ups inc England. When I get into this conversation with people I think they fail to realise that the primary role for this position is being a good sounding board and it helps if there are good strong dissagreements and differances of opinion. Clough had it about right with Taylor (who was a tough nut mentally and told Cloughie where to get off if needed). But Clougie also had John Robertson who I rate very very highly as assistant manager material (not sure but I think he is working with MON). The assistant managers in the PL who are a class above are Quireoz (sp) and Pat Rice...IMO two of the best. Although interestingly neither imo would make particularly good managers because they lack the 'X' factor/ the vision to see the real nature of a side, what makes it tick, how to blend personalities (something our side LACKS in a big way). Carlos is the tactician at ManU that is Fergies hidden secret, when they play especially in Europe Q is drilling them and setting up the 2nd and 3rd runs over and over on the training ground...Van Nistelrooj used to hate Q for that. If I was pushed I would say that SA can do it without significant parts of his 'team' but I agree it will take time, but HE would get time as would SGE if he came ( and we did speak to him) as would someone like Van Basten ( who I'd love here). Hoddle and Trevor Francis would also make good assistant managers imo as would Luther Blisset (who has been doing badges in Italy last I heard).

[NE5]

I don't think even Freddie's biggest backers could argue that the club has gone down hill massively over the past few years because of decisions made by him and the rest of the board, bringing in Allardyce would go some way to sorting out the mess they've put us in.

 

that depends. Even Freddies most ardent paranoid critic could hardly argue that Dalglish and Robson were top class appointments, winning managers with track records 2nd to none. And Gullit also being an up and coming manager.

 

Unfortunately, they do argue about Dalglish and Gullit.

 

As they are both, more qualified than Big Sam, its strange so many people are backing Allardyce while claiming the club can't attract big name managers. It will be interesting also to see the reaction if Allardyce does come to Newcastle, and doesn't succeed - although it also depends on what people mean by succeed ? Top 5 positions for 3 consecutive years ? A couple of Cup finals ? Regular European football ? Or an isolated League Cup win and bottom half to mid table league finishes and a relegation thrown in for good measure, like Leicester, Blackburn and the smoggies. Particularly Leicester, and beating Tranmere in the Final when the big clubs weren't even interested in it, including us at the time.

 

 

 

 

[NE5]

He's been Allardyce's assistant/head coach for the past few years - think O'Neill and his troupe. I think Janitor's just assuming that they would be part of a team, a team that's obviously now broken up with Lee being appointed full time at Bolton.

 

Some info here: http://www.thefa.com/England/SeniorTeam/Coaches/Postings/2003/02/38387.htm

 

Aye cheers for clearing that up for me Dave, mate. Dead hard to understand like!

 

Parky/TT: As far as "having the set-up" goes, you cannot tell me that Big Sam can be nailed-on to be as successful in running Newcastle United as he has been down at Bolton. It's a completely different kettle of fish, with a different chairman and with a structure that will require and complete and utter overhaul - something that could take years to fully accomplish. My point about Lee (a fucking top-quality coach, by all accounts) and the rest of Allardyce's team at Bolton was that it might be very difficult for him to recreate the success here, ESPECIALLY in the short-term - and it's not like managers have a long shelf-life here these days if we're not firing on practically all cylinders whenever we play.

 

I would have thought that Lee was one of the most pivotal aspects of Sam's set-up (although I did mention the "rest of his team") in the same post. Wasn't he pivotal at Liverpool under Houllier as well? He has a massive reputation in the game, man. Sam's certainly not going to bring all of them to SJP, especially not quickly. Things could be a lot less clear-cut than people like you are predicting if he does ever come here. I've always been in favour of Allardyce coming here and I would still welcome it, but I'm weary of people expecting far too much of him if he does ever arrive and therefore giving him a snowball in hell's chance from the get-go by having massively inflated expectations of what he can do for us.

 

You cannot fully compensate for having a team that has worked together for years, if they get split up. That was my point and I fail to see how it was that hard to comprehend, really. What have you heard about Sammy Lee, Parky? Isn't he all he's cracked up to be?

 

Absolutely. Nailed on.

 

The point being, you look at the candidates at the time and who you think is qualified for you, which the club DID when appointing Dalglish, Gullit and Robson. Even the Scottish fuckpig had a case as the club needed some discipline - and indeed some people still support his actions in kicking out Bellamy and wouldn't have him back - and had won the League Cup and the FA Cup, whatever the circumstances. Roeder too had some merit in that he restored some stability and did well initially, possibly with Shearers motivational influence, maybe not.

 

At this moment in time, Allardyce seems to have a lot to offer the club. I'll pin my flag to the mast and say that apart from Arsene Wenger and Alex Ferguson, he is the next British based manager for me, so I'll be happy with him.

 

Not many managers are nailed on to be a success. In many ways, if Allardyce goes to us or Man City, then it is his big chance to join the winning managers and that is all.

 

 

[Parky]

The more I read about Big Sam and his attention to detail and thoroughness the more I like.....And tbf I am a recent convert.

[Baggio]

I don't think even Freddie's biggest backers could argue that the club has gone down hill massively over the past few years because of decisions made by him and the rest of the board, bringing in Allardyce would go some way to sorting out the mess they've put us in.

 

that depends. Even Freddies most ardent paranoid critic could hardly argue that Dalglish and Robson were top class appointments, winning managers with track records 2nd to none. And Gullit also being an up and coming manager.

 

Unfortunately, they do argue about Dalglish and Gullit.

 

As they are both, more qualified than Big Sam, its strange so many people are backing Allardyce while claiming the club can't attract big name managers. It will be interesting also to see the reaction if Allardyce does come to Newcastle, and doesn't succeed - although it also depends on what people mean by succeed ? Top 5 positions for 3 consecutive years ? A couple of Cup finals ? Regular European football ? Or an isolated League Cup win and bottom half to mid table league finishes and a relegation thrown in for good measure, like Leicester, Blackburn and the smoggies. Particularly Leicester, and beating Tranmere in the Final when the big clubs weren't even interested in it, including us at the time.

 

 

Who argues about the appointment of Dalglish?

 

I don't remember hearing anyone bash the board for bringing in either Dalglish or Gullit, both good managers who could well have gone on to be a success, there is no guarantee of success though and nearly 10 years on I still don't know why it didn't work out for Dalglish.

 

Big Sam may not be a success but I wouldn't knock Shepherd if he appointed him and it didn't work out.

[Baggio]

He's been Allardyce's assistant/head coach for the past few years - think O'Neill and his troupe. I think Janitor's just assuming that they would be part of a team, a team that's obviously now broken up with Lee being appointed full time at Bolton.

 

Some info here: http://www.thefa.com/England/SeniorTeam/Coaches/Postings/2003/02/38387.htm

 

Aye cheers for clearing that up for me Dave, mate. Dead hard to understand like!

 

Parky/TT: As far as "having the set-up" goes, you cannot tell me that Big Sam can be nailed-on to be as successful in running Newcastle United as he has been down at Bolton. It's a completely different kettle of fish, with a different chairman and with a structure that will require and complete and utter overhaul - something that could take years to fully accomplish. My point about Lee (a f****** top-quality coach, by all accounts) and the rest of Allardyce's team at Bolton was that it might be very difficult for him to recreate the success here, ESPECIALLY in the short-term - and it's not like managers have a long shelf-life here these days if we're not firing on practically all cylinders whenever we play.

 

I would have thought that Lee was one of the most pivotal aspects of Sam's set-up (although I did mention the "rest of his team") in the same post. Wasn't he pivotal at Liverpool under Houllier as well? He has a massive reputation in the game, man. Sam's certainly not going to bring all of them to SJP, especially not quickly. Things could be a lot less clear-cut than people like you are predicting if he does ever come here. I've always been in favour of Allardyce coming here and I would still welcome it, but I'm weary of people expecting far too much of him if he does ever arrive and therefore giving him a snowball in hell's chance from the get-go by having massively inflated expectations of what he can do for us.

 

You cannot fully compensate for having a team that has worked together for years, if they get split up. That was my point and I fail to see how it was that hard to comprehend, really. What have you heard about Sammy Lee, Parky? Isn't he all he's cracked up to be?

 

Absolutely. Nailed on.

 

The point being, you look at the candidates at the time and who you think is qualified for you, which the club DID when appointing Dalglish, Gullit and Robson. Even the Scottish fuckpig had a case as the club needed some discipline - and indeed some people still support his actions in kicking out Bellamy and wouldn't have him back - and had won the League Cup and the FA Cup, whatever the circumstances. Roeder too had some merit in that he restored some stability and did well initially, possibly with Shearers motivational influence, maybe not.

 

At this moment in time, Allardyce seems to have a lot to offer the club. I'll pin my flag to the mast and say that apart from Arsene Wenger and Alex Ferguson, he is the next British based manager for me, so I'll be happy with him.

 

Not many managers are nailed on to be a success. In many ways, if Allardyce goes to us or Man City, then it is his big chance to join the winning managers and that is all.

 

 

 

Souness and Roeder are two of the worst managers the Premiership has ever seen, don't try and make out there was a case for appointing either of them.

[NE5]

I don't think even Freddie's biggest backers could argue that the club has gone down hill massively over the past few years because of decisions made by him and the rest of the board, bringing in Allardyce would go some way to sorting out the mess they've put us in.

 

that depends. Even Freddies most ardent paranoid critic could hardly argue that Dalglish and Robson were top class appointments, winning managers with track records 2nd to none. And Gullit also being an up and coming manager.

 

Unfortunately, they do argue about Dalglish and Gullit.

 

As they are both, more qualified than Big Sam, its strange so many people are backing Allardyce while claiming the club can't attract big name managers. It will be interesting also to see the reaction if Allardyce does come to Newcastle, and doesn't succeed - although it also depends on what people mean by succeed ? Top 5 positions for 3 consecutive years ? A couple of Cup finals ? Regular European football ? Or an isolated League Cup win and bottom half to mid table league finishes and a relegation thrown in for good measure, like Leicester, Blackburn and the smoggies. Particularly Leicester, and beating Tranmere in the Final when the big clubs weren't even interested in it, including us at the time.

 

 

Who argues about the appointment of Dalglish?

 

I don't remember hearing anyone bash the board for bringing in either Dalglish or Gullit, both good managers who could well have gone on to be a success, there is no guarantee of success though and nearly 10 years on I still don't know why it didn't work out for Dalglish.

 

Big Sam may not be a success but I would knock Shepherd if he appointed him and it didn't work out.

 

lots of people did. Don't you remember "attack attack attack" at Wembley too ? Which flies in the face of people saying they are prepared to be patient, and want the team to build from the back etc etc blah blah.....because that is what he was attempting to do and they didn't like it.

 

I mean, I didn't like the way he dismantled Keegans team either, but at least I stick to my guns, I was prepared to give him time and don't moan on saying one thing then expecting instant success.

 

As for your last line, you simply can't back the appointment of Allardyce then knock the club if it doesn't work out. Anyone can use hindsight and I'm afraid sayign such things and exercising such options add up to zero credibility. Shepherd, Hall jnr have no more foresight than you or anybody else does.

 

 

[NE5]

He's been Allardyce's assistant/head coach for the past few years - think O'Neill and his troupe. I think Janitor's just assuming that they would be part of a team, a team that's obviously now broken up with Lee being appointed full time at Bolton.

 

Some info here: http://www.thefa.com/England/SeniorTeam/Coaches/Postings/2003/02/38387.htm

 

Aye cheers for clearing that up for me Dave, mate. Dead hard to understand like!

 

Parky/TT: As far as "having the set-up" goes, you cannot tell me that Big Sam can be nailed-on to be as successful in running Newcastle United as he has been down at Bolton. It's a completely different kettle of fish, with a different chairman and with a structure that will require and complete and utter overhaul - something that could take years to fully accomplish. My point about Lee (a f****** top-quality coach, by all accounts) and the rest of Allardyce's team at Bolton was that it might be very difficult for him to recreate the success here, ESPECIALLY in the short-term - and it's not like managers have a long shelf-life here these days if we're not firing on practically all cylinders whenever we play.

 

I would have thought that Lee was one of the most pivotal aspects of Sam's set-up (although I did mention the "rest of his team") in the same post. Wasn't he pivotal at Liverpool under Houllier as well? He has a massive reputation in the game, man. Sam's certainly not going to bring all of them to SJP, especially not quickly. Things could be a lot less clear-cut than people like you are predicting if he does ever come here. I've always been in favour of Allardyce coming here and I would still welcome it, but I'm weary of people expecting far too much of him if he does ever arrive and therefore giving him a snowball in hell's chance from the get-go by having massively inflated expectations of what he can do for us.

 

You cannot fully compensate for having a team that has worked together for years, if they get split up. That was my point and I fail to see how it was that hard to comprehend, really. What have you heard about Sammy Lee, Parky? Isn't he all he's cracked up to be?

 

Absolutely. Nailed on.

 

The point being, you look at the candidates at the time and who you think is qualified for you, which the club DID when appointing Dalglish, Gullit and Robson. Even the Scottish fuckpig had a case as the club needed some discipline - and indeed some people still support his actions in kicking out Bellamy and wouldn't have him back - and had won the League Cup and the FA Cup, whatever the circumstances. Roeder too had some merit in that he restored some stability and did well initially, possibly with Shearers motivational influence, maybe not.

 

At this moment in time, Allardyce seems to have a lot to offer the club. I'll pin my flag to the mast and say that apart from Arsene Wenger and Alex Ferguson, he is the next British based manager for me, so I'll be happy with him.

 

Not many managers are nailed on to be a success. In many ways, if Allardyce goes to us or Man City, then it is his big chance to join the winning managers and that is all.

 

 

 

Souness and Roeder are two of the worst managers the Premiership has ever seen, don't try and make out there was a case for appointing either of them.

 

unfortunately, they are not two of the worst managers the premiership has ever seen. And Roeder had some merit having did well as a caretaker. All clubs appoint managers on this basis sometimes, Liverpool have, Chelsea have, ManU have, and Arsenal too have appointed managers without winning track records, so stop making out they have not. The smoggies with the great Steve Gibson have appointed a manager with no experience. There is absolutely no difference between that appointment and us appointing Roeder either.

 

 

 

 

[Baggio]

I don't think even Freddie's biggest backers could argue that the club has gone down hill massively over the past few years because of decisions made by him and the rest of the board, bringing in Allardyce would go some way to sorting out the mess they've put us in.

 

that depends. Even Freddies most ardent paranoid critic could hardly argue that Dalglish and Robson were top class appointments, winning managers with track records 2nd to none. And Gullit also being an up and coming manager.

 

Unfortunately, they do argue about Dalglish and Gullit.

 

As they are both, more qualified than Big Sam, its strange so many people are backing Allardyce while claiming the club can't attract big name managers. It will be interesting also to see the reaction if Allardyce does come to Newcastle, and doesn't succeed - although it also depends on what people mean by succeed ? Top 5 positions for 3 consecutive years ? A couple of Cup finals ? Regular European football ? Or an isolated League Cup win and bottom half to mid table league finishes and a relegation thrown in for good measure, like Leicester, Blackburn and the smoggies. Particularly Leicester, and beating Tranmere in the Final when the big clubs weren't even interested in it, including us at the time.

 

 

Who argues about the appointment of Dalglish?

 

I don't remember hearing anyone bash the board for bringing in either Dalglish or Gullit, both good managers who could well have gone on to be a success, there is no guarantee of success though and nearly 10 years on I still don't know why it didn't work out for Dalglish.

 

Big Sam may not be a success but I would knock Shepherd if he appointed him and it didn't work out.

 

lots of people did. Don't you remember "attack attack attack" at Wembley too ? Which flies in the face of people saying they are prepared to be patient, and want the team to build from the back etc etc blah blah.....because that is what he was attempting to do and they didn't like it.

 

I mean, I didn't like the way he dismantled Keegans team either, but at least I stick to my guns, I was prepared to give him time and don't moan on saying one thing then expecting instant success.

 

As for your last line, you simply can't back the appointment of Allardyce then knock the club if it doesn't work out. Anyone can use hindsight and I'm afraid sayign such things and exercising such options add up to zero credibility. Shepherd, Hall jnr have no more foresight than you or anybody else does.

 

 

 

I meant I wouldn't knock him, it was a typo by me.

 

I'll edit it.

[NE5]

I don't think even Freddie's biggest backers could argue that the club has gone down hill massively over the past few years because of decisions made by him and the rest of the board, bringing in Allardyce would go some way to sorting out the mess they've put us in.

 

that depends. Even Freddies most ardent paranoid critic could hardly argue that Dalglish and Robson were top class appointments, winning managers with track records 2nd to none. And Gullit also being an up and coming manager.

 

Unfortunately, they do argue about Dalglish and Gullit.

 

As they are both, more qualified than Big Sam, its strange so many people are backing Allardyce while claiming the club can't attract big name managers. It will be interesting also to see the reaction if Allardyce does come to Newcastle, and doesn't succeed - although it also depends on what people mean by succeed ? Top 5 positions for 3 consecutive years ? A couple of Cup finals ? Regular European football ? Or an isolated League Cup win and bottom half to mid table league finishes and a relegation thrown in for good measure, like Leicester, Blackburn and the smoggies. Particularly Leicester, and beating Tranmere in the Final when the big clubs weren't even interested in it, including us at the time.

 

 

Who argues about the appointment of Dalglish?

 

I don't remember hearing anyone bash the board for bringing in either Dalglish or Gullit, both good managers who could well have gone on to be a success, there is no guarantee of success though and nearly 10 years on I still don't know why it didn't work out for Dalglish.

 

Big Sam may not be a success but I would knock Shepherd if he appointed him and it didn't work out.

 

lots of people did. Don't you remember "attack attack attack" at Wembley too ? Which flies in the face of people saying they are prepared to be patient, and want the team to build from the back etc etc blah blah.....because that is what he was attempting to do and they didn't like it.

 

I mean, I didn't like the way he dismantled Keegans team either, but at least I stick to my guns, I was prepared to give him time and don't moan on saying one thing then expecting instant success.

 

As for your last line, you simply can't back the appointment of Allardyce then knock the club if it doesn't work out. Anyone can use hindsight and I'm afraid sayign such things and exercising such options add up to zero credibility. Shepherd, Hall jnr have no more foresight than you or anybody else does.

 

 

 

I meant I wouldn't knock him, it was a typo by me.

 

I'll edit it.

 

aye, do it, but I don't think anyone else would do it for you.

[Parky]

I don't think even Freddie's biggest backers could argue that the club has gone down hill massively over the past few years because of decisions made by him and the rest of the board, bringing in Allardyce would go some way to sorting out the mess they've put us in.

 

that depends. Even Freddies most ardent paranoid critic could hardly argue that Dalglish and Robson were top class appointments, winning managers with track records 2nd to none. And Gullit also being an up and coming manager.

 

Unfortunately, they do argue about Dalglish and Gullit.

 

As they are both, more qualified than Big Sam, its strange so many people are backing Allardyce while claiming the club can't attract big name managers. It will be interesting also to see the reaction if Allardyce does come to Newcastle, and doesn't succeed - although it also depends on what people mean by succeed ? Top 5 positions for 3 consecutive years ? A couple of Cup finals ? Regular European football ? Or an isolated League Cup win and bottom half to mid table league finishes and a relegation thrown in for good measure, like Leicester, Blackburn and the smoggies. Particularly Leicester, and beating Tranmere in the Final when the big clubs weren't even interested in it, including us at the time.

 

 

Who argues about the appointment of Dalglish?

 

I don't remember hearing anyone bash the board for bringing in either Dalglish or Gullit, both good managers who could well have gone on to be a success, there is no guarantee of success though and nearly 10 years on I still don't know why it didn't work out for Dalglish.

 

Big Sam may not be a success but I would knock Shepherd if he appointed him and it didn't work out.

 

lots of people did. Don't you remember "attack attack attack" at Wembley too ? Which flies in the face of people saying they are prepared to be patient, and want the team to build from the back etc etc blah blah.....because that is what he was attempting to do and they didn't like it.

 

I mean, I didn't like the way he dismantled Keegans team either, but at least I stick to my guns, I was prepared to give him time and don't moan on saying one thing then expecting instant success.

 

As for your last line, you simply can't back the appointment of Allardyce then knock the club if it doesn't work out. Anyone can use hindsight and I'm afraid sayign such things and exercising such options add up to zero credibility. Shepherd, Hall jnr have no more foresight than you or anybody else does.

 

 

 

I meant I wouldn't knock him, it was a typo by me.

 

I'll edit it.

 

Phew 30 pager avoided.

[Baggio]

He's been Allardyce's assistant/head coach for the past few years - think O'Neill and his troupe. I think Janitor's just assuming that they would be part of a team, a team that's obviously now broken up with Lee being appointed full time at Bolton.

 

Some info here: http://www.thefa.com/England/SeniorTeam/Coaches/Postings/2003/02/38387.htm

 

Aye cheers for clearing that up for me Dave, mate. Dead hard to understand like!

 

Parky/TT: As far as "having the set-up" goes, you cannot tell me that Big Sam can be nailed-on to be as successful in running Newcastle United as he has been down at Bolton. It's a completely different kettle of fish, with a different chairman and with a structure that will require and complete and utter overhaul - something that could take years to fully accomplish. My point about Lee (a f****** top-quality coach, by all accounts) and the rest of Allardyce's team at Bolton was that it might be very difficult for him to recreate the success here, ESPECIALLY in the short-term - and it's not like managers have a long shelf-life here these days if we're not firing on practically all cylinders whenever we play.

 

I would have thought that Lee was one of the most pivotal aspects of Sam's set-up (although I did mention the "rest of his team") in the same post. Wasn't he pivotal at Liverpool under Houllier as well? He has a massive reputation in the game, man. Sam's certainly not going to bring all of them to SJP, especially not quickly. Things could be a lot less clear-cut than people like you are predicting if he does ever come here. I've always been in favour of Allardyce coming here and I would still welcome it, but I'm weary of people expecting far too much of him if he does ever arrive and therefore giving him a snowball in hell's chance from the get-go by having massively inflated expectations of what he can do for us.

 

You cannot fully compensate for having a team that has worked together for years, if they get split up. That was my point and I fail to see how it was that hard to comprehend, really. What have you heard about Sammy Lee, Parky? Isn't he all he's cracked up to be?

 

Absolutely. Nailed on.

 

The point being, you look at the candidates at the time and who you think is qualified for you, which the club DID when appointing Dalglish, Gullit and Robson. Even the Scottish fuckpig had a case as the club needed some discipline - and indeed some people still support his actions in kicking out Bellamy and wouldn't have him back - and had won the League Cup and the FA Cup, whatever the circumstances. Roeder too had some merit in that he restored some stability and did well initially, possibly with Shearers motivational influence, maybe not.

 

At this moment in time, Allardyce seems to have a lot to offer the club. I'll pin my flag to the mast and say that apart from Arsene Wenger and Alex Ferguson, he is the next British based manager for me, so I'll be happy with him.

 

Not many managers are nailed on to be a success. In many ways, if Allardyce goes to us or Man City, then it is his big chance to join the winning managers and that is all.

 

 

 

Souness and Roeder are two of the worst managers the Premiership has ever seen, don't try and make out there was a case for appointing either of them.

 

unfortunately, they are not two of the worst managers the premiership has ever seen. And Roeder had some merit having did well as a caretaker. All clubs appoint managers on this basis sometimes, Liverpool have, Chelsea have, ManU have, and Arsenal too have appointed managers without winning track records, so stop making out they have not. The smoggies with the great Steve Gibson have appointed a manager with no experience. There is absolutely no difference between that appointment and us appointing Roeder either.

 

 

 

 

 

When have I said Man Utd, Liverpool, Chelsea or Arsenal haven't done this?

 

I haven't even mentioned them so stop making things up.

 

Both Souness and Roeder are easily two of the worst managers in the Premiership and both came with a history of failure, Gibson appointing Southgate is nothing like us appointing Roeder.

[Dave]

I don't think even Freddie's biggest backers could argue that the club has gone down hill massively over the past few years because of decisions made by him and the rest of the board, bringing in Allardyce would go some way to sorting out the mess they've put us in.

 

that depends. Even Freddies most ardent paranoid critic could hardly argue that Dalglish and Robson were top class appointments, winning managers with track records 2nd to none. And Gullit also being an up and coming manager.

 

Unfortunately, they do argue about Dalglish and Gullit.

 

As they are both, more qualified than Big Sam, its strange so many people are backing Allardyce while claiming the club can't attract big name managers. It will be interesting also to see the reaction if Allardyce does come to Newcastle, and doesn't succeed - although it also depends on what people mean by succeed ? Top 5 positions for 3 consecutive years ? A couple of Cup finals ? Regular European football ? Or an isolated League Cup win and bottom half to mid table league finishes and a relegation thrown in for good measure, like Leicester, Blackburn and the smoggies. Particularly Leicester, and beating Tranmere in the Final when the big clubs weren't even interested in it, including us at the time.

 

 

Who argues about the appointment of Dalglish?

 

I don't remember hearing anyone bash the board for bringing in either Dalglish or Gullit, both good managers who could well have gone on to be a success, there is no guarantee of success though and nearly 10 years on I still don't know why it didn't work out for Dalglish.

 

Big Sam may not be a success but I would knock Shepherd if he appointed him and it didn't work out.

 

lots of people did. Don't you remember "attack attack attack" at Wembley too ? Which flies in the face of people saying they are prepared to be patient, and want the team to build from the back etc etc blah blah.....because that is what he was attempting to do and they didn't like it.

 

I mean, I didn't like the way he dismantled Keegans team either, but at least I stick to my guns, I was prepared to give him time and don't moan on saying one thing then expecting instant success.

 

As for your last line, you simply can't back the appointment of Allardyce then knock the club if it doesn't work out. Anyone can use hindsight and I'm afraid sayign such things and exercising such options add up to zero credibility. Shepherd, Hall jnr have no more foresight than you or anybody else does.

 

 

 

I meant I wouldn't knock him, it was a typo by me.

 

I'll edit it.

 

Phew 30 pager avoided.