José Enrique

[Slugsy]

I know that the club wanted Enrique, Colo and Guitierez out at the time MA was looking to sell the club as their wages were not in the new structure and they had capital value. I've heard snippets since then that this view has not changed so I'm not at all surprised that Ashley is flogging out best player and won't be surprised if others go as well. Ashley doesn't make footballing decisions, it's all about the cashflow for him.

[Dave]

In principle I agree Wullie. People are not only by money, although right now football is heading towards being the exception that proves the rule. Time will show: If he leaves for Lpool, it's obviously because of money. They will not get near any cl-spot or silverware the next couple of seasons. If he on the other hand heads abroad to Milan etc, or to Man U or Chelsea, his main desire is to win a trophy.

 

Do you know what the Liverpool owners have planned for the next two years?

 

I'd say having signed our most promising home grown talent in 25 years + targetted the best left back we've had in the same period they're showing more ambition than most - if they can add a few more squad players to their core next year they will be Champions League contenders.

 

You're arguing like we will fail in everything, whilst liverpool will succeed with everything. Carroll and Suarez will succeed period, We'll only buy rubbish attackers. Enrique will play well in Lpool (he will not have the same defensive support in Jonas) And we're not capable of finding a good replacement. Listen to your negative self For all we know, Suarez may be rubbish next season (in Holland he got a reputation of only scoring against the weaker teams), Carroll might have problems with  his attitudes, maybe he's seriously injured.. Or what will happen if the widemen Lpool buy fail to give Carroll the balls he like? There are so many contingencies that can occur and go wrong. Sadly many of you think that all the errors will happen to us and not toth Lpool.

 

Have some faith will you

 

You are so hilariously deluded.

[Colocho]

Minhose: You're forgetting that Jonas gives Enrique probably the best protection in the league. That our left side is rock solid defensively is not all down to Enrique. Just as much credit should land  on Jonas' shoulders.

 

Defensively?

 

[Minhosa]

In principle I agree Wullie. People are not only by money, although right now football is heading towards being the exception that proves the rule. Time will show: If he leaves for Lpool, it's obviously because of money. They will not get near any cl-spot or silverware the next couple of seasons. If he on the other hand heads abroad to Milan etc, or to Man U or Chelsea, his main desire is to win a trophy.

 

Do you know what the Liverpool owners have planned for the next two years?

 

I'd say having signed our most promising home grown talent in 25 years + targetted the best left back we've had in the same period they're showing more ambition than most - if they can add a few more squad players to their core next year they will be Champions League contenders.

 

You're arguing like we will fail in everything, whilst liverpool will succeed with everything. Carroll and Suarez will succeed period, We'll only buy rubbish attackers. Enrique will play well in Lpool (he will not have the same defensive support in Jonas) And we're not capable of finding a good replacement. Listen to your negative self For all we know, Suarez may be rubbish next season (in Holland he got a reputation of only scoring against the weaker teams), Carroll might have problems with  his attitudes, maybe he's seriously injured.. Or what will happen if the widemen Lpool buy fail to give Carroll the balls he like? There are so many contingencies that can occur and go wrong. Sadly many of you think that all the errors will happen to us and not toth Lpool.

 

Have some faith will you

 

It's not a question of faith. Of course, there will be errors/issues affecting both clubs but by next September I'd be more assured as a Liverpool fan that they will have a better placed squad to deal with them than we will.

 

They are buying proven quality for now and we'll be taking chances on kids whose value will go up.

 

All good if you have Arsene Wenger, don't make too many fuck ups in selecting the kids and don't ever get relegated again.

[Punk77]

In principle I agree Wullie. People are not only by money, although right now football is heading towards being the exception that proves the rule. Time will show: If he leaves for Lpool, it's obviously because of money. They will not get near any cl-spot or silverware the next couple of seasons. If he on the other hand heads abroad to Milan etc, or to Man U or Chelsea, his main desire is to win a trophy.

 

Do you know what the Liverpool owners have planned for the next two years?

 

I'd say having signed our most promising home grown talent in 25 years + targetted the best left back we've had in the same period they're showing more ambition than most - if they can add a few more squad players to their core next year they will be Champions League contenders.

 

You're arguing like we will fail in everything, whilst liverpool will succeed with everything. Carroll and Suarez will succeed period, We'll only buy rubbish attackers. Enrique will play well in Lpool (he will not have the same defensive support in Jonas) And we're not capable of finding a good replacement. Listen to your negative self For all we know, Suarez may be rubbish next season (in Holland he got a reputation of only scoring against the weaker teams), Carroll might have problems with  his attitudes, maybe he's seriously injured.. Or what will happen if the widemen Lpool buy fail to give Carroll the balls he like? There are so many contingencies that can occur and go wrong. Sadly many of you think that all the errors will happen to us and not toth Lpool.

 

Have some faith will you

 

You are so hilariously deluded.

 

You could try to bring something fruitful into the discussion instead of posting rubbish each time you disagree.. Or you can ban yourself!

[AyeDubbleYoo]

Being hopelessly naive myself, I've got some sympathy for Punk's point.

 

We have been through a lot of shit recently, but how many clubs' fans would say that? Hundreds I imagine. And at the end of the day we aren't much worse of on the pitch, if at all, and our team is not really much worse either, if at all.

 

It does seem like some people only want to believe the worst will happen. I can understand why a bit, but it gets a bit tiring at times.

[Punk77]

 

It does seem like some people only want to believe the worst will happen. I can understand why a bit, but it gets a bit tiring at times.

 

This! Can't we try to enjoy that the club has done better than most expected. That we've made super bargains in Tiote and HBA. Who would have thought that Carroll, williamson, colo and simpson would take pl with storm..?Or that we have more money to spend than we dared to dream of? MA has the whole summer to prove us wrong.  Therefore I'll wait until next season before I eventually join the howling chorus

[magorific]

Minhose: You're forgetting that Jonas gives Enrique probably the best protection in the league. That our left side is rock solid defensively is not all down to Enrique. Just as much credit should land  on Jonas' shoulders.

 

You are taking the p*ss, right?

[Minhosa]

Being hopelessly naive myself, I've got some sympathy for Punk's point.

 

We have been through a lot of shit recently, but how many clubs' fans would say that? Hundreds I imagine. And at the end of the day we aren't much worse of on the pitch, if at all, and our team is not really much worse either, if at all.

 

It does seem like some people only want to believe the worst will happen. I can understand why a bit, but it gets a bit tiring at times.

 

It is naivety like.

 

Tiote, Ben Arfa and Simpson are perfect examples of the Ashley way.

 

Buy a player with potential for relatively low figure.

 

See how the player performs.

 

If well, protect the asset.

 

Await big bid, reply by stating the asset is on a long term contract and only silly money will be accepted.

 

Accept larger offer.

 

There's no point in anybody getting particularly fond of a star player because they'll be off within a couple of years for more than they were bought for.

 

The policy is a very good model - just not without it's risks - the key one being morale imho.

 

Hence the talks with Nolan.

 

Pardew will be arguing for a core of players to be here for the long term to ensure morale is ok and Nolan is key to this.

[Wullie]

More money than we ever dreamt of? No football dream I've ever had involved money, believe me. I don't get excited by signings, by bargains, by low wages or good fees. All I could give a fuck about is Newcastle winning on any given day.

[TRon]

Being hopelessly naive myself, I've got some sympathy for Punk's point.

 

We have been through a lot of shit recently, but how many clubs' fans would say that? Hundreds I imagine. And at the end of the day we aren't much worse of on the pitch, if at all, and our team is not really much worse either, if at all.

 

It does seem like some people only want to believe the worst will happen. I can understand why a bit, but it gets a bit tiring at times.

 

It is naivety like.

 

Tiote, Ben Arfa and Simpson are perfect examples of the Ashley way.

 

Buy a player with potential for relatively low figure.

 

See how the player performs.

 

If well, protect the asset.

 

Await big bid, reply by stating the asset is on a long term contract and only silly money will be accepted.

 

Accept larger offer.

 

There's no point in anybody getting particularly fond of a star player because they'll be off within a couple of years for more than they were bought for.

 

The policy is a very good model - just not without it's risks - the key one being morale imho.

 

Hence the talks with Nolan.

 

Pardew will be arguing for a core of players to be here for the long term to ensure morale is ok and Nolan is key to this.

 

Nolan is the perfect Ashley player. Will score enough goals to help secure safety in the premier but still relatively cheap because no big club will want him.

[Colocho]

But he is on £40,000+ a week.

[Minhosa]

Being hopelessly naive myself, I've got some sympathy for Punk's point.

 

We have been through a lot of shit recently, but how many clubs' fans would say that? Hundreds I imagine. And at the end of the day we aren't much worse of on the pitch, if at all, and our team is not really much worse either, if at all.

 

It does seem like some people only want to believe the worst will happen. I can understand why a bit, but it gets a bit tiring at times.

 

It is naivety like.

 

Tiote, Ben Arfa and Simpson are perfect examples of the Ashley way.

 

Buy a player with potential for relatively low figure.

 

See how the player performs.

 

If well, protect the asset.

 

Await big bid, reply by stating the asset is on a long term contract and only silly money will be accepted.

 

Accept larger offer.

 

There's no point in anybody getting particularly fond of a star player because they'll be off within a couple of years for more than they were bought for.

 

The policy is a very good model - just not without it's risks - the key one being morale imho.

 

Hence the talks with Nolan.

 

Pardew will be arguing for a core of players to be here for the long term to ensure morale is ok and Nolan is key to this.

 

Nolan is the perfect Ashley player. Will score enough goals to help secure safety in the premier but still relatively cheap because no big club will want him.

 

Not sure I agree with that tbh.

 

He'll be at the top of the salary range and have little resale value.

 

His value comes in keeping a squad together, morale ok etc.

 

Compare his captaincy to say Owens.

 

He'll be the hit Ashley is taking to keep rotating bodies in the squad to make some money.................collateral damage if you like.

[Punk77]

Minhosa: Why should he sell his biggest assets, unless they refuse to abide to the salary policy set? The only way he's capable of earning money is to establish the club in the top tier. Selling his best players will only lead to the club's value being reduced accordingly. And it's much easier for him to sell the club if it's full of solid players, if he wants that.. However, to earn money, he also needs to enforce the salary cap which by far is the biggest expense in a club. If the club isn't making money, he must take from his own pocket if he wants reinforcements..Would you have done that? When the club has a sound economy, it can also compete for the best talents. We will be able to outbid the likes of Villa and Everton. As long as a salary cap is enforced, it's viable to pay decent fees in order to acquire the best talents. Tham and Stoke are good examples of this. And as the squad gradually improves, together with results and income a greater wage tolerance will also be possible.

[Wullie]

Nolan's even more perfect if it's Liverpool you're intending on selling your best players to, even better at convincing players to sign for them than Dalglish is.

[Colocho]

Nolan's even more perfect if it's Liverpool you're intending on selling your best players to, even better at convincing players to sign for them than Dalglish is.

 

Wonder if he's telling Enrique just how much greater Liverpool are than us.

 

By the way, there is hope. "£11.5m fullback linked to Liverpool."

 

http://www.fansfc.com/story/31418.html

[TRon]

Being hopelessly naive myself, I've got some sympathy for Punk's point.

 

We have been through a lot of shit recently, but how many clubs' fans would say that? Hundreds I imagine. And at the end of the day we aren't much worse of on the pitch, if at all, and our team is not really much worse either, if at all.

 

It does seem like some people only want to believe the worst will happen. I can understand why a bit, but it gets a bit tiring at times.

 

It is naivety like.

 

Tiote, Ben Arfa and Simpson are perfect examples of the Ashley way.

 

Buy a player with potential for relatively low figure.

 

See how the player performs.

 

If well, protect the asset.

 

Await big bid, reply by stating the asset is on a long term contract and only silly money will be accepted.

 

Accept larger offer.

 

There's no point in anybody getting particularly fond of a star player because they'll be off within a couple of years for more than they were bought for.

 

The policy is a very good model - just not without it's risks - the key one being morale imho.

 

Hence the talks with Nolan.

 

Pardew will be arguing for a core of players to be here for the long term to ensure morale is ok and Nolan is key to this.

 

Nolan is the perfect Ashley player. Will score enough goals to help secure safety in the premier but still relatively cheap because no big club will want him.

 

Not sure I agree with that tbh.

 

He'll be at the top of the salary range and have little resale value.

 

His value comes in keeping a squad together, morale ok etc.

 

Compare his captaincy to say Owens.

 

His captaincy is great but Ashley isn't going to pay over the odds for that. Nolan will be paid what it takes to keep him, and with no big clubs interested it shouldn't be huge wages. Although Ashley might consider his goals worth paying a bit more for as we can form a cheap but effective style round players like Nolan.

[Elliottman]

Being hopelessly naive myself, I've got some sympathy for Punk's point.

 

We have been through a lot of s*** recently, but how many clubs' fans would say that? Hundreds I imagine. And at the end of the day we aren't much worse of on the pitch, if at all, and our team is not really much worse either, if at all.

 

It does seem like some people only want to believe the worst will happen. I can understand why a bit, but it gets a bit tiring at times.

 

It is naivety like.

 

Tiote, Ben Arfa and Simpson are perfect examples of the Ashley way.

 

Buy a player with potential for relatively low figure.

 

See how the player performs.

 

If well, protect the asset.

 

Await big bid, reply by stating the asset is on a long term contract and only silly money will be accepted.

 

Accept larger offer.

 

There's no point in anybody getting particularly fond of a star player because they'll be off within a couple of years for more than they were bought for.

 

The policy is a very good model - just not without it's risks - the key one being morale imho.

 

Hence the talks with Nolan.

 

Pardew will be arguing for a core of players to be here for the long term to ensure morale is ok and Nolan is key to this.

 

I'm trying to rack my brains, but Carroll aside, who else has been sold that was part of that Model?

[Minhosa]

Minhosa: Why should he sell his biggest assets, unless they refuse to abide to the salary policy set? The only way he's capable of earning money is to establish the club in the top tier. Selling his best players will only lead to the club's value being reduced accordingly. And it's much easier for him to sell the club if it's full of solid players, if he wants that.. However, to earn money, he also needs to enforce the salary cap which by far is the biggest expense in a club. If the club isn't making money, he must take from his own pocket if he wants reinforcements..Would you have done that? When the club has a sound economy, it can also compete for the best talents. We will be able to outbid the likes of Villa and Everton. As long as a salary cap is enforced, it's viable to pay decent fees in order to acquire the best talents. Tham and Stoke are good examples of this. And as the squad gradually improves, together with results and income a greater wage tolerance will also be possible.

 

The club is still not self-sufficient.

 

I would imagine he's lowering the wage bill, whilst generating additional capital through sales to stop having to shore the club up personally.

 

When we get to that point perhaps he can move us forward or sell us.

 

On the question of whether I would have the done the same (money from my own pocket) I wouldn't have bought the club in the first place tbh.

 

How will the squad gradually improve when constant turnover of top players? Surely, eventually, something has to give?

 

 

 

 

 

[Colocho]

Not a relevant question tbh.

 

The question you should be asking is who may be sold on the basis of that model.

[Wallace]

This Summer will surely show Ashley's true intentions once and for all.  He is in the last chance saloon.  Will he sell several of our better players and replace them with poorer ones?  With the £35m+ received in transfer monies (assuming Jose goes), he has no excuses and failure to strengthen the squad will make it obvious to all supporters that he is not interested in improving the club in any way other than financially.  At that point, I think a lot of fans who have given him the benefit of the doubt up till now, will decide enough is enough.

[Colocho]

This Summer will surely show Ashley's true intentions once and for all.  He is in the last chance saloon.  Will he sell several of our better players and replace them with poorer ones?   With the £35m+ received in transfer monies (assuming Jose goes), he has no excuses and failure to strengthen the squad will make it obvious to all supporters that he is not interested in improving the club in any way other than financially.  At that point, I think a lot of fans who have given him the benefit of the doubt up till now, will decide enough is enough.

 

My thoughts exactly.

[Minhosa]

Not a relevant question tbh.

 

The question you should be asking is who may be sold on the basis of that model.

 

Well that and what were his intentions of buying Ben Arfa when he was injured, loaning a headfuck at minimal cost and securing Tiote by giving him more money.

 

Why would he offer someone significantly more money for an extra years commitment?

 

Protecting his value (Tiote)

Grabbing a bargain (Ben Arfa & possibly Ireland)

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm not against the principles of the model, more the fact the club aren't just up front about it.

 

We are a feeder club now and the kids he'll buy in the summer, if they prove themselves by Xmas will be wrapped up in long term deals in order to sell to the highest bidder come next summer.

 

All good as long as Carr isn't hit by a bus, the team morale doesn't dive bomb a la relegation year (hence Nolan imho) and the fans don't stop turning up.

[Wallace]

Not a relevant question tbh.

 

The question you should be asking is who may be sold on the basis of that model.

 

Well that and what were his intentions of buying Ben Arfa when he was injured, loaning a headfuck at minimal cost and securing Tiote by giving him more money.

 

Why would he offer someone significantly more money for an extra years commitment?

 

Protecting his value (Tiote)

Grabbing a bargain (Ben Arfa & possibly Ireland)

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm not against the principles of the model, more the fact the club aren't just up front about it.

 

We are a feeder club now and the kids he'll buy in the summer, if they prove themselves by Xmas will be wrapped up in long term deals in order to sell to the highest bidder come next summer.

 

All good as long as Carr isn't hit by a bus, the team morale doesn't dive bomb a la relegation year (hence Nolan imho) and the fans don't stop turning up.

 

My understanding is that Liverpool were sniffing around Ben Arfa so the club decide to push the deal through early rather than wait until the end of the season and risk losing him.  Since they had agreed such a good price for him, once Ben Arfa signed that contract, they can almost certainly sell him for an immediate profit.  I know he has a lot to prove after the injury but even now before he has played again, they would easily get more than £5m for him.

 

[madras]

This Summer will surely show Ashley's true intentions once and for all.  He is in the last chance saloon.  Will he sell several of our better players and replace them with poorer ones?  With the £35m+ received in transfer monies (assuming Jose goes), he has no excuses and failure to strengthen the squad will make it obvious to all supporters that he is not interested in improving the club in any way other than financially.  At that point, I think a lot of fans who have given him the benefit of the doubt up till now, will decide enough is enough.

there are two schools of thought amongst NUFC fans, one as posted above by wallace and the other that says mike ashley is the devil incarnate and he is somehow syphoning off any transfer profits into his own pocket.