Strongest 11?

[Shak]

Not particularly innovative idea for a thread, I suppose, but interested to see people's thoughts on it.

 

What do people think will end up being our first choice 11 if/when everyone gets fit?

 

I'll allow people to include Belletti, only because I want to force people to choose between Butt and Geremi in midfield.

 

Anyway, my guess is

 

------------------ Given

 

Belletti -- Taylor -- Rozenhal -- Enrique

 

---- Barton -- Geremi -- Emre

 

Martins ----------------------- N'Zogbia

 

---------------- Viduka

 

Controversial to leave out Owen, obviously, but I just don't see how he'll fit into our system at all. He'll be a quality impact sub and will start games against the weaker teams but I wouldn't be at all surprised to see him start a lot of games on the bench, even when fully fit.

 

As I said in another thread, while Milner's individual performances are probably the best in our team soi far, his lack of pace is really, really detrimental to our team play.

 

I'd personally like to see Milner used more in the middle and have us buy a pacier option (Anelka) to replace him as competition for the wide spots.

 

In all honesty, though, I haven't the slightest clue what Allardyce has in mind.

 

I'm sure there'll be slight changes depending on the differing opposition, but you have to feel that there's gonna be a core team we'll look to.

[Parky]

Have you considered the catannacio Shakky?

[Shak]

Have you considered the catannacio Shakky?

 

Possibly, can't say I know what you mean.

[NSG]

Milner is at his best on the left IMO.

[jack j]

----------------given-------------------

 

geremi---rozehnal----taylor-------enrique

 

milner----barton------smith-------n'zogbia

 

------------owen-------viduka--

 

at the minute

[Parky]

Have you considered the catannacio Shakky?

 

Possibly, can't say I know what you mean.

 

Sweeper who has license to come forward and act as a deep lying playmaker.

[midds]

Have you considered the catannacio Shakky?

 

Possibly, can't say I know what you mean.

 

It's Italian for 'lock and bolt' or 'lock and key' or something like that I think.

 

Basically being able to shut the opposition down like the Italians have been doing for about 40 years.

[Shak]

Milner is at his best on the left IMO.

 

Better than on the right, yeah.

 

But as I said his lack of pace is really a problem, especially when playing 4-3-3. In that system the striker will be a target man type ala Viduka who'll play with his back to goal. Then you'll need two fast guys either side to stretch teams.

 

In a 4-4-2 I'm happy to have Milner on the wing, but in a 4-3-3 I think we'll struggle with him there consistently.

[Shak]

Have you considered the catannacio Shakky?

 

Possibly, can't say I know what you mean.

 

Sweeper who has license to come forward and act as a deep lying playmaker.

 

That'd be fine, not sure we've got one on the books though.

 

Could leave us exposed at the back a bit though?

[Baggio]

Agree with Shak, pace is a must for this formation however I'd try Milner out through the middle as an attacking midfielder until Barton's fit.

[Jamie]

GIVEN

BALLETTI (SP?)

TAYLOR

ROZENHAL

ENRIQUE

MILNER

BARTON

GEREMI

OWEN

VIDUKA

MARTINS

 

LOOKING LIKE THIS

 

------------GIVEN-----------

BAL----TAY-----ROZ----ENRI

---BART--GEREMI---MILN

-----MARTINS-----------------

--------DUKES----OWEN

[Rich]

Have you considered the catannacio Shakky?

 

Possibly, can't say I know what you mean.

 

Sweeper who has license to come forward and act as a deep lying playmaker.

 

Isn't that a Libero? Catenaccio is the formation in which he would play.

[Dr. Nguyen Van Falk]

Given

 

Belleti

Capaca

Rozehnal

Enrique

 

Geremi

Barton

Emre

N'zogbia

 

Martins

Viduka

 

 

[Parky]

Have you considered the catannacio Shakky?

 

Possibly, can't say I know what you mean.

 

Sweeper who has license to come forward and act as a deep lying playmaker.

 

Isn't that a Libero? Catenaccio is the formation in which he would play.

 

That's right baby.

[Ridman]

Plain and simple 4-4-2

 

      Given

Belletti - Roz - Taylor - Enrique

 

Milner - Barton - Geremi - Zogman

 

    Viduka/Owen  -  Martins/Owen

 

Not idea honestly whether to play Owen and Martins together or use the small+big combo.

[Rich]

Have you considered the catannacio Shakky?

 

Possibly, can't say I know what you mean.

 

Sweeper who has license to come forward and act as a deep lying playmaker.

 

Isn't that a Libero? Catenaccio is the formation in which he would play.

 

That's right baby.

 

In games like the one on Saturday a defender out of the two could play that role to a degree, anyway.

 

I'm desperate to see Rozehnal in particular given a bit of an "Albert" licence to bring the ball out of defence, not to the extent of Philippe, but it would help us out massively going forward IMO, because yesterday there was no pressure on he/Taylor at all.

 

Definitely a good shout and something I hope we look at when teams come and park 11 players behind the ball. Viduka versus two centre-halves is not going to cut the mustard.

 

As for the question in the OP, talking from a SJP perspective against teams like Villa:

 

Given

 

Milner    Rozehnal    Cacapa    Enrique

 

Geremi    Barton    Emre

 

Owen    Viduka    Martins

 

Not jinxing the Belletti move by including him, same goes for Faye. Damien Duff is out for yonks, but would be pushing on top-form. My vendetta against Carr sees him ousted in favour of the undroppable Milner to raid from the RB position, my desire to see footballing centre-halves at some sees Taylor omitted in favour of the Brazilian/Czech combination and Enrique comes in on the left to add some more height/power to the team ahead of N'Zogbia.

 

Charlie would get a place on the bench, alongside Harper, Duff, Smith and Ameobi, which looks full of promise to me, fuck defenders.

 

Aye, not sure how that front-three would work exactly, but I think they have enough about them to perform well together, especially with that midfield behind them and two full-backs who can push forward effectively to provide them with some bullets.

 

Would be exciting, if nowt else.

[Tooj]

Parky there's not a chance we are solid enough at the back to even contemplate playing Catenaccio.

 

Can you imagine the fans reaction as well? Oh well let's employ tactics that haven't been popular for 40 years.  :parky:

[olliemort]

Given

Geremi

Taylor

Rozendahl

Enrique

Milner

Barton

Smith

Zog

Martins

Viduka

 

Subs

Capaca

Emre

Duff

Owen

Harper

 

Not a bad sub bench,either eh?But in all fairness we never have a full squad ta choose from anyways!

[STM]

Away:

                            Given

 

Taylor        Rozehnal    Cacapa    Enrique

 

                          Geremi

                                        Smith

              Barton

    Milner            Viduka        N'Zogbia 

 

Home:

 

                        Given

 

Belletti      Taylor      Rozehnal      Enrique

 

                  Barton      Emre

 

Milner                                      N'Zogbia

                                Martins

                  Owen

 

 

 

 

[johnnypd]

I wonder if Sam wants us to play a narrow team with wing-backs, since he is looking at yet another defensive midfielder, and yet another pacy full-back. Sam said earlier in the summer that he had looked for proper, defensive full-backs but that there weren't any around, that the ones available were converted wingers. then he went out and bought a wingback in Enrique and wants a former winger in Belletti.

 

This suggests to me he now wants his full-backs to have more attacking responsbility, perhaps as a means to accomodate Owen into a 4-3-3 type system. The wing-backs would push to the opposition's byline and cross to two central strikers who would be playing as if they were in a 4-4-2. The strikers would have to make do with a bit more movement outside the box to compensate tho. In a Bolton-like 4-3-3 the wide forwards start out on the flank then work their way inwards while in this formation they begin in the middle and run out into the space by the corner flag. This is not only a far easier thing to do (defender's naturally shepherd you away from goal, while try to block you off if you head to the box) but way closer to Martin and Owen's natural game. it would be easier than a 4-3-3 for them, but harder than a simple 4-4-2.

 

Obviously having two wing-backs in the side would mean we resort to more defenders in the middle, either in the form of a back three, or by playing two holding players who can provide extra cover. As the back three is pretty much discredited in modern football i think we'll see two DMs, one who acts as an energetic destroyer who never goes forward (Faye?) and another, more subtle player, who acts as the water-carrier and instigator of attacks (Butt or Geremi). Line up would be something like this, based on a similar, recent Milan formation with two strikers:

 

Owen    Martins

Viduka

Barton Geremi

Enrique          Faye          Belletti

Taylor Rozehnal

Given

 

Strengths? Solid midfield offering lots of protection, this team would keep possession well as it has many destroyers and also many skillful ball players with intelligent movement. It also allows Martins and Owen to play in their favoured position without their incompatibility being as much of an issue due to Viduka's presence. Seemingly finds a place for all our best talents.

 

Weaknesses? Lack of width in the final third (no duff, milner or zoggy), though this can be remedied by directing the strikers to pin teams back with their pace and work the channels. Viduka's movement -  he's not exactly Kaka is he? Relies on the wing-backs to a hideous extent, not good if they're bogged down defending.

[Cronky]

When everyone's fit -

 

........Given

Carr...Rozenhal....Taylor....Enrique

.....Barton....Geremi....Smith

..........Milner.......Duff

...............Ameobi

 

I like the 4-3-3.

[Menace]

lolz

[Parky]

Have you considered the catannacio Shakky?

 

Possibly, can't say I know what you mean.

 

Sweeper who has license to come forward and act as a deep lying playmaker.

 

Isn't that a Libero? Catenaccio is the formation in which he would play.

 

That's right baby.

 

In games like the one on Saturday a defender out of the two could play that role to a degree, anyway.

 

I'm desperate to see Rozehnal in particular given a bit of an "Albert" licence to bring the ball out of defence, not to the extent of Philippe, but it would help us out massively going forward IMO, because yesterday there was no pressure on he/Taylor at all.

 

Definitely a good shout and something I hope we look at when teams come and park 11 players behind the ball. Viduka versus two centre-halves is not going to cut the mustard.

 

As for the question in the OP, talking from a SJP perspective against teams like Villa:

 

Given

 

Milner     Rozehnal     Cacapa     Enrique

 

Geremi    Barton    Emre

 

Owen     Viduka     Martins

 

Not jinxing the Belletti move by including him, same goes for Faye. Damien Duff is out for yonks, but would be pushing on top-form. My vendetta against Carr sees him ousted in favour of the undroppable Milner to raid from the RB position, my desire to see footballing centre-halves at some sees Taylor omitted in favour of the Brazilian/Czech combination and Enrique comes in on the left to add some more height/power to the team ahead of N'Zogbia.

 

Charlie would get a place on the bench, alongside Harper, Duff, Smith and Ameobi, which looks full of promise to me, fuck defenders.

 

Aye, not sure how that front-three would work exactly, but I think they have enough about them to perform well together, especially with that midfield behind them and two full-backs who can push forward effectively to provide them with some bullets.

 

Would be exciting, if nowt else.

 

 

There is a reason you're my top football poster.  blueyes.gif

 

 

....I agree Rozy has the wherewithall to compress the midfield by bringing the ball forward. Suddenly we have the extra man and they find it harder to 'hold the line' and are without wanting to defending deep. Played correctly one (the quickest) full back covers. This would as you clearly realise takes some of the inflexibility out of what atm seems like a 'clunky' formation.

[Parky]

I wonder if Sam wants us to play a narrow team with wing-backs, since he is looking at yet another defensive midfielder, and yet another pacy full-back. Sam said earlier in the summer that he had looked for proper, defensive full-backs but that there weren't any around, that the ones available were converted wingers. then he went out and bought a wingback in Enrique and wants a former winger in Belletti.

 

This suggests to me he now wants his full-backs to have more attacking responsbility, perhaps as a means to accomodate Owen into a 4-3-3 type system. The wing-backs would push to the opposition's byline and cross to two central strikers who would be playing as if they were in a 4-4-2. The strikers would have to make do with a bit more movement outside the box to compensate tho. In a Bolton-like 4-3-3 the wide forwards start out on the flank then work their way inwards while in this formation they begin in the middle and run out into the space by the corner flag. This is not only a far easier thing to do (defender's naturally shepherd you away from goal, while try to block you off if you head to the box) but way closer to Martin and Owen's natural game. it would be easier than a 4-3-3 for them, but harder than a simple 4-4-2.

 

Obviously having two wing-backs in the side would mean we resort to more defenders in the middle, either in the form of a back three, or by playing two holding players who can provide extra cover. As the back three is pretty much discredited in modern football i think we'll see two DMs, one who acts as an energetic destroyer who never goes forward (Faye?) and another, more subtle player, who acts as the water-carrier and instigator of attacks (Butt or Geremi). Line up would be something like this, based on a similar, recent Milan formation with two strikers:

 

Owen     Martins

Viduka

Barton Geremi

Enrique          Faye          Belletti

Taylor Rozehnal

Given

 

Strengths? Solid midfield offering lots of protection, this team would keep possession well as it has many destroyers and also many skillful ball players with intelligent movement. It also allows Martins and Owen to play in their favoured position without their incompatibility being as much of an issue due to Viduka's presence. Seemingly finds a place for all our best talents.

 

Weaknesses? Lack of width in the final third (no duff, milner or zoggy), though this can be remedied by directing the strikers to pin teams back with their pace and work the channels. Viduka's movement -  he's not exactly Kaka is he? Relies on the wing-backs to a hideous extent, not good if they're bogged down defending.

 

How are we counting Barton?

[McCormick]

 

milner may not be lightning quick but he's a lot faster than shak gives him credit for.. mate you're making him out to be as fast as a an amputee (leg one obviously, felt i had to say this). That said though, would  be interesting to play him in centre mid, who knows could be the playmaker we so desperately need. i'd drop geremi.. don't rate him tbh and play a 442