madras

is this the saddest thing of today ?

What did they do that was against the rules exactly? the rule that a player cannot move twice in one season within the same country......yet he received "special dispensation" Hamaan went from 'pool to Bolton to Man City in a couple of weeks over the summer. from the beeb. knew the rule was something along those lines.

got mine and swipe card it is aswell as the usual vouchers for cup games etc. no magnetic strip on it like most swipe cards i'm used to. and bugger! you have to use your proper turnstile,i'll have to leave the pub at 17mins to kick off instead of 15mins.

Exactly, that last article I posted also contained numbers of players we've tried to get, it mentions 10 to 15, I think I've only seen about 30 players moving with Premiership experience and most of them have been players we shouldn't be looking at, you wouldn't mention them and quality in the same breath. thats the players who have moved,what about those we could be interested in but haven't moved. Well if they haven't moved maybe we are still in with a chance of resurrecting the deal so not as worrying. Sam did state that a number of them had moved though and so it is hard to imagine who he could have meant. but resurrecting a deal later means they aren't here now,training getting bedding in etc,the worrying thing is allardyce stating he should get the numbers but he's worried about the quality. i know some will say because of the position we are in we shouldn't expect top quality..........i'll answer that...i think allardyce means he's worried about the quality we look like getting compared to the quality we should expect for a club in our position.

Exactly, that last article I posted also contained numbers of players we've tried to get, it mentions 10 to 15, I think I've only seen about 30 players moving with Premiership experience and most of them have been players we shouldn't be looking at, you wouldn't mention them and quality in the same breath. thats the players who have moved,what about those we could be interested in but haven't moved.

What did they do that was against the rules exactly? the rule that a player cannot move twice in one season within the same country......yet he received "special dispensation"

doesn't necessarily have to be players that have moved,you can want players who are still with their clubs

we chilled out last summer aswell. as allardyce has already pointed out,we may not now get the quality we would have liked/he would have expected.

the mascherano and tevez deals now fit into place. Yep it's all part of the fantastic four plan! some club,straight after mascherano,should have done the same thing,quoting liverpools special circumstances,then another club,then another,then when the prem/fa says no,these are the rules,take the fuckers to court.

the mascherano and tevez deals now fit into place.

can in a way,it's the" glory hunting i want to be attached to winner" complex that is f****** football the world over. as for me,the only time i derive enjoyment from foreign football results is when the supposed big guns get turned over off so-called lesser lights and theres few things better than a nobody winning the league. it's true that's why I've got a soft spot for Napoli, still the FA are a useless organisation and they should take the blame imo could be from when they were champions not all fans go for the gloryhuntism,but the majority and that is enough to tilt the financial balance massivly.

can in a way,it's the" glory hunting i want to be attached to winner" complex that is fucking football the world over. as for me,the only time i derive enjoyment from foreign football results is when the supposed big guns get turned over off so-called lesser lights and theres few things better than a nobody winning the league.

I think there's a realisation from most now that the transfer window hasn't gone as Allardyce might have liked it. My initial issue with the threads you were starting was the unnecessary "Mr. Ashley, where's your money gone! Show me the money!" stance, when you really had no idea as to whether he was being forthcoming with transfer funds or not, and the "Where are the signings!? I NEED SIGNINGS" outbursts when we basically hadn't got someone in for a couple of weeks. I don't think it's blind faith to preach a bit of patience, especially when it's very clear that the new manager is doing his utmost to get bodies through the door. We all want to see new signings at the club, but pressing the panic button in the first couple of weeks of July and having a go at a new owner who has been at the club for about a month didn't make much sense to me or others it seems. The time to make judgements is when the window closes. Be concerned by all means (I am, it's clear Allardyce is), but don't go daft about it. Not having a go btw, but I'm a bit sick of this talk of "blind faith" syndrome and the I-told-you-so posts. Gemmill, no intention to say told you so to anyone. My and others like mine previous posts did not ask the questions you state above. We just thought it'd be prudent to ask for & expect a little bit of information from MA & his team as opposed to the majority of posts saying it would be ok. Quite why Dave has labelled some members knob heads is a mystery especially as this is attached to a piece that clearly shows that things haven't gone as well as most would have believed. i can understand asking the questions,i can't understand why you should expect answers,is it good sense to for ashley/allardyce to say we are desperate for defenders...what then happens to the price when we enquire,other clubs know we are no longer able to say "take it or leave it" so much and we lose strength in the bargaining process. there is a lot to be said in saying f*** all!

our debt was financed different to leeds but had we kept on building up debt as we were we may not have done a leeds but would have had to downscale. you cannot,in football,or most walks of life,spend without regard to where it comes from.

because if you acquire something you have to eventually pay for it,sooner or later if you keep acquiring without paying you'll get kicked in the balls.

I didn't hear Ashley say he was going to bankroll managers, did you ? Has he had any previous experience of owning football clubs so we can judge him ? If you did, please show me a link. I wouldn't have liked that hedge fund though, and quite a lot of chairman at other premiership and big city clubs around the country either. can i take it you would have preferred fred had stayed and ashley never took over then ? please don't answer anything about seeing what ashley does as what he does in the future has sod all bearing on feelings now. I think you should find where I say that or anything like it. Please explain why anyone should have a judgement on Ashley's intentions or ambitions, when he has not ran a football club before, nor told anyone what his intentions and ambitions are ? I'm a bit surprised that you appear to be believing in fairies like numerous other people, I thought you were more pragmatic than that to be honest. Nobody here has any idea at all what Ashleys intentions are, you are only saying he will spend his money because you want him to, we all want him to. Unfortunately, you can't demand that or expect it. Its his money and its up to him. Please don't you - or anyone else - say that he should just because he's the new owner and you want him to, because he doesn't. Significantly, he is a businessman, he can make small profits without being hugely successful, whereas if he was a keen football supporter, or better still a Newcastle supporter, he would have more urge to succeed on the pitch. I said this once before and was slightly slaughtered for it. And has been said by someone else, the money he has bought the club with is irrelevant, because he can just sell the club on in due course if he wants to do so. so you have no judgement on it,because you cannot see into the future you have no judgement on it. i wonder if you thought the same when the hall's took over from the previous regime ? not believing in fairies mate,but taking a punt where i think it may do us good. i'm giving up now as you won't answer a simple either/or question that everone else understands (as do you). i wish we could all live in the world you wish to believe in,only making decisions when the outcomes are known and certain. mackems.gif when the Halls etc took over the club, the only way really was up.# To remind you, as you clearly weren't there, otherwise there is no way in a million years you would even mention such a thing.....the club had sold ALL its best players for years, were staring at the old 3rd division, were playing in front of a half empty 30,000 ground that was nothing more than a s*** heap, had qualified for europe 4 times in over 30 years, had finished in the top 5 once during this period, on the brink of going bankrupt and out of existence, and appointed a journeyman manager like Jim Smith - the EIGHTH choice [for those who think we appoint only s*** managers that nobody else wants], followed by a complete tosser straight out of the clowns book of managers ie Ossie Ardiles, that the chairman Forbes laughingly thought would bring the good times back to the club, in the form of challenging for promotion to the 1st division and that was the limit of ambition as it always was under such complete tossers, when the Halls and Shepherd took over the club. I was almost believing you had half a brain lately, as you had been raising some objective and interesting points, but this completely ridiculous post puts you among the micks of this world. Go back to jail, go, or Old Kent Road, or somewhere, because you quite clearly don't have a clue. yes i was there,that season i missed about half a dozen games home and away,probably and perversely the most fun i've had following nufc.(the tales from a lot of those trips are legendary in our circle). you've also put nothing in your post you haven't posted a hundred times before and i agree about the position we were in yet no-one mentioned going to the wall,until hall took over and if you remember he was always a bit overdramatic. but anyway,the question was about now,and like all questions about now you have to make it not knowing what the future holds,so would you prefer fred was still in charge or take the risk with ashley ? I am pleased you accept that Ashley is a risk. That is my reply BTW. Maybe the vast majority of other people will have something to say about it, having assured everyone else that Shepherd was holding the club back single handed from world glory. What will they say if nothing happens, or we don't match the 3 consecutive top 5 finishes achieved under the old board, for the first time in 50 years ? Will this mean that the Halls and Shepherd weren't holding the club back after all ? Just a thought. EDIT: Ref your comments about Hall, you are correct, he and he alone said we were going to the wall. One thing for certain is that we were heading for the 3rd division, and total oblivion, and maybe the fans didn't deserve it but the people who ran the club for 30 years did and could hardly have expected anything else. As you do understand this why do you say " i wonder if you thought the same when the hall's took over from the previous regime ? " Everyone who supported the club knows the state the club was in at that time, its simply beyond discussion at all. I don't know anybody who I know supported the club who doesn't dispute it. I think the outcome of the Halls and Shepherd was never in any doubt at all. We were always going to head back upwards. i think i've stated that ashley is a risk each time i've posted the question,however all decisions carry risk,keeping fred would have been a risk (some may say a bigger risk!),what i don't understand is why you can't answer my simple question,everyone else could without needing to know exactly what will happen at the conclusion of each decision,everybody else weighs up the pros and cons in the here and now and projects it forward in their mind.thats how decisions are made,using todays information,accepting that it is difficuilt to make todays decision based on tomorrows info. who would you prefer to be in charge of nufc right this very moment,fred ar ashley ? is it only your vanity stopping you answering my simple question,the need to not be seen to turn your back on our previous chairman or the need to be seen to be right in the future so no matter how this turns out you can say "i was right" (naturally having technically backed both horses) Fact is, if I say Ashley and he turns out not to back his managers as well as the Halls and Shepherd, then it makes my choice incorrect. Without a track record, how do you know Ashley will be better ? Do YOU think we will match and better the Champions League finishes under Bobby Robson with Shepherd as chairman ? You have absolutely no grounds whatsoever for thinking that we will. You may be prepared to think that someone will be better than the last board - with no basis whatsoever - but I do not. This is why I have called the last board correctly and others haven't. They simply want rid of Fred because they are dragging personalities into their judgement. I will make mine on how I consider their view, knowledge of football, and ambition for their club, and if you don't mind. If he backs his managers, he could be better. If he doesn't, he won't. You are asking the equivalent of judging whether someone will be a good manager without having been one before, or asking if someone will be a good footballer despite not knowing anything about him. Asking if Ashley will be a good owner of a club is no different to asking if Alan Shearer will be a good manager, therefore would you be happy for him to take over from Allardyce ? Its a silly question, nobody can answer, unless you have a personal greivance against one of the indivuduals concerned which prevents you from making a good judgement. The you will presume the new bloke will better, but that is only because you want him to be. no...it makes it your choice,now,in this instant,in which it can be neither right nor wrong..just your choice......only in the as yet undetermined future can it be deemed right or wrong.

got this vision in my mind of shearer being bored at home and picks up the phone.................. ring ring "hello" "hello" "al,is that you ?" "yes,get me an erm..................limo" "ok,as ever,whatever you say" phone goes dead. rob lee looks at warren..."it's al he wants a limo" alan shearer and neil ruddock pissing themselves rolling round shearers sitting room.

16 until first game of season,we need players before the Bolton game not 31st Aug be happier with the right players on aug 31st rather than panics in time for bolton. ideally the right players tomorrow mind you. (i take it you mean 16 days not weeks)

except richards didn't look out of place for the full england team at right back. (haven't checked that,first beers for a while,could be wrong.........it has been known)

did you ask NE5 for permission to use his smiley ?

I didn't hear Ashley say he was going to bankroll managers, did you ? Has he had any previous experience of owning football clubs so we can judge him ? If you did, please show me a link. I wouldn't have liked that hedge fund though, and quite a lot of chairman at other premiership and big city clubs around the country either. can i take it you would have preferred fred had stayed and ashley never took over then ? please don't answer anything about seeing what ashley does as what he does in the future has sod all bearing on feelings now. I think you should find where I say that or anything like it. Please explain why anyone should have a judgement on Ashley's intentions or ambitions, when he has not ran a football club before, nor told anyone what his intentions and ambitions are ? I'm a bit surprised that you appear to be believing in fairies like numerous other people, I thought you were more pragmatic than that to be honest. Nobody here has any idea at all what Ashleys intentions are, you are only saying he will spend his money because you want him to, we all want him to. Unfortunately, you can't demand that or expect it. Its his money and its up to him. Please don't you - or anyone else - say that he should just because he's the new owner and you want him to, because he doesn't. Significantly, he is a businessman, he can make small profits without being hugely successful, whereas if he was a keen football supporter, or better still a Newcastle supporter, he would have more urge to succeed on the pitch. I said this once before and was slightly slaughtered for it. And has been said by someone else, the money he has bought the club with is irrelevant, because he can just sell the club on in due course if he wants to do so. so you have no judgement on it,because you cannot see into the future you have no judgement on it. i wonder if you thought the same when the hall's took over from the previous regime ? not believing in fairies mate,but taking a punt where i think it may do us good. i'm giving up now as you won't answer a simple either/or question that everone else understands (as do you). i wish we could all live in the world you wish to believe in,only making decisions when the outcomes are known and certain. mackems.gif when the Halls etc took over the club, the only way really was up.# To remind you, as you clearly weren't there, otherwise there is no way in a million years you would even mention such a thing.....the club had sold ALL its best players for years, were staring at the old 3rd division, were playing in front of a half empty 30,000 ground that was nothing more than a s*** heap, had qualified for europe 4 times in over 30 years, had finished in the top 5 once during this period, on the brink of going bankrupt and out of existence, and appointed a journeyman manager like Jim Smith - the EIGHTH choice [for those who think we appoint only s*** managers that nobody else wants], followed by a complete tosser straight out of the clowns book of managers ie Ossie Ardiles, that the chairman Forbes laughingly thought would bring the good times back to the club, in the form of challenging for promotion to the 1st division and that was the limit of ambition as it always was under such complete tossers, when the Halls and Shepherd took over the club. I was almost believing you had half a brain lately, as you had been raising some objective and interesting points, but this completely ridiculous post puts you among the micks of this world. Go back to jail, go, or Old Kent Road, or somewhere, because you quite clearly don't have a clue. yes i was there,that season i missed about half a dozen games home and away,probably and perversely the most fun i've had following nufc.(the tales from a lot of those trips are legendary in our circle). you've also put nothing in your post you haven't posted a hundred times before and i agree about the position we were in yet no-one mentioned going to the wall,until hall took over and if you remember he was always a bit overdramatic. but anyway,the question was about now,and like all questions about now you have to make it not knowing what the future holds,so would you prefer fred was still in charge or take the risk with ashley ? I am pleased you accept that Ashley is a risk. That is my reply BTW. Maybe the vast majority of other people will have something to say about it, having assured everyone else that Shepherd was holding the club back single handed from world glory. What will they say if nothing happens, or we don't match the 3 consecutive top 5 finishes achieved under the old board, for the first time in 50 years ? Will this mean that the Halls and Shepherd weren't holding the club back after all ? Just a thought. EDIT: Ref your comments about Hall, you are correct, he and he alone said we were going to the wall. One thing for certain is that we were heading for the 3rd division, and total oblivion, and maybe the fans didn't deserve it but the people who ran the club for 30 years did and could hardly have expected anything else. As you do understand this why do you say " i wonder if you thought the same when the hall's took over from the previous regime ? " Everyone who supported the club knows the state the club was in at that time, its simply beyond discussion at all. I don't know anybody who I know supported the club who doesn't dispute it. I think the outcome of the Halls and Shepherd was never in any doubt at all. We were always going to head back upwards. i think i've stated that ashley is a risk each time i've posted the question,however all decisions carry risk,keeping fred would have been a risk (some may say a bigger risk!),what i don't understand is why you can't answer my simple question,everyone else could without needing to know exactly what will happen at the conclusion of each decision,everybody else weighs up the pros and cons in the here and now and projects it forward in their mind.thats how decisions are made,using todays information,accepting that it is difficuilt to make todays decision based on tomorrows info. who would you prefer to be in charge of nufc right this very moment,fred ar ashley ? is it only your vanity stopping you answering my simple question,the need to not be seen to turn your back on our previous chairman or the need to be seen to be right in the future so no matter how this turns out you can say "i was right" (naturally having technically backed both horses)

Better that than 300 mongs asking a load of s***. how about half and half then,half pre set,half free for all ?

don't like the idea of having to pre set your question. seems like censorship to me

could someone stick a NOT in the thread title please.

come on man,we are nufc,we above all others should know saying and doing are worlds apart.