TRon

Good man management is about lifting the players at the right time. The lifeless surrender of our premiership status on the final day does suggest that Shearer and Dowie failed in that respect.

I think that's worth a punt. Far better idea than playing two target men together in Best and Carroll.

Did Shepherd pick the team for Roeder as well?

Performances at home have improved, and we're taking advantage of weaker teams now which is what I was crying out for. He needs to sort out our failure to turn up away from home to get some real praise from me. Yeah you were right all along, your long term perspective and expertise has shamed Hughton's results tbh.

He could easily be challenging for England caps within a few years. I realised that we were talking about the future but "easily"? IMO he has nowhere near the technical ability to be able to play for England at any point. Hope I'm wrong about the long-haired beaut however. I don't see much technical ability in Emile Heskey. I was making the point that as the large target man who creates space for a Rooney-type, he will hopefully have a shout in a couple of years. Beg to disagree there mate, Heskey is pretty good at playing a team role but he doesn't score the goals. Carroll is the opposite IMO, although he has much more potential to improve.

I think he was signed because at the time Hughton wasn't entirely comfortable with having to rely on Carroll and Ranger as target men, having lost Harewood. This was before Carroll went on his insane goal scoring streak and without hindsight I don't think anyone would have predicted it. yip. plus if he fails we'll still be able to get shot for more than we paid for him. also he's hardly had a chance yet to lead the line, instead playing off a front man which isn't his natural game, poor, poor start but far too early to be making out he's as bad as some are. Especially as we are winning games and he's not even involved much so why he's getting slated for being kept out of the side is beyond me.

I would always trust Keegan far more than Ashley, unfortunately I haven't got £300m to buy the club and finance Keegan's re-structuring of NUFC. Neither has anyone else otherwise I'm sure this would have happened by now.

I think he was signed because at the time Hughton wasn't entirely comfortable with having to rely on Carroll and Ranger as target men, having lost Harewood. This was before Carroll went on his insane goal scoring streak and without hindsight I don't think anyone would have predicted it.

...and that would be another NUFC mistake. I agree that it MAY be necessary to replace him with a TOP proven striker, but you don't get 'bargains' with those - any bargains tend to be like Lovenkrands - players who have been OK at a lower level(i.e.Scottish Prem), but will not hack it in the Prem. If Carroll could get 12-15 goals in the Prem it would be a definite success for the first season back ; any less than 10 and I would ask questions about his future provided he was given a fair number of games. Either way, we WILL need another,proven striker. Proven strikers don't come cheap though, unless they are on their way down, in which case I'd rather give Carroll a shot in the premier first. If we can buy a good quality striker at the right age that would be ideal, but no over priced 30 yr olds please...or to put it another way, Robbie Keane for £8m and sky high wages can fuck off.

"For that" I said. Not for everything. I'll be glad to cede the point if you show me the substantial outgoings that remain as a shepherd legacy. Or the additional income Ashley has generated that Shepherd failed to. Didn't Ashley pay off the 80m debt legacy that Shepherd left? It might still be outstanding but it's saved around £6m a year interest hasn't it?

Doesn't anyone else find it strange that he is getting slagged when he's not even starting games at the moment. Don't get me wrong he may be a waste of money, and at the time I was dubious about the signing - but it's not his fault the other strikers are scoring and keeping him out of the team. In fact signing him might have a lot to do with it, as Carroll has certainly stepped up a gear. Lay off and wait until he gets a run of games before writing him off.

Carroll. He's got one quality that no one has mentioned much so far and that is he's mentally pretty tough. That might just be because he's thick as pig shit but nevertheless it 's a plus in his relentless quest for goals.

Did he run around with pace or do Hughton's scouts need glasses?

Started the first 5 matches or so, didn't he? If he'd have taken his chance he'd still be in the first XI. Fact is, he is poo-poo. He didn't look great alongside Carroll that's for sure.

Not really his fault that Carroll has started hitting the net virtually every game since he signed is it? While the front two are scoring he's not going to get much of a look in so might as well count our blessings that he's on the outside looking in.

Tell me I've just read that wrong and you didn't say that we're playing better football than the last time we were promoted under keegan. Correct me if i'm wrong but haven't we got more points under Hughton at this stage than Keegan. Of course you know which football i would prefer to see. Forgive me Mick, i'm in clever arse mode. Better, in my mind mean's more effective, not more attractive. For example Arsenal play more attractive football than Chelsea but it's probably not better. because we have more points doesn't even mean we were more effective. keegans promotion team dominated games in a way this team hasn't/couldn't. this team has picked up a lot of points in games where we couldn't have argued with a point. plus keegans team could have competed well in the prem, this team would be at best in a relegation fight. Keegan was backed with cash to sign the players necessary. Hall let Keegan buy Andy Cole whereas Ashley declined the chance to sign Moses, a player for the future and went for the cheaper option of Leon Best.

Better at signing on the dole anyway

No one will pay over the odds for him. More likely we will learn to love the useless fat bastard, hence this thread.

Hindsight is always a great leveller.

Who are these unknown centre mids? I don't know obviously

This idea that our premiership quality squad will get us promotion rather than Hughton is a bit suspect. The squad is ok but the only real part of the team which looks quality at this level is the defence. Take Colo and Williamson out for a sustained period and I think we'd get turned over like Forest did more regularly.

We need to move on. The fact that boro's unknown centre mids bossed the midfield against their big name counterparts shows the folly of sticking with old/unfit players for too long.

I just hope when we do get a "proper manager" he doesn't turn out to be an inept clueless twat like Steve Bruce who spends 10x more cash to get worse results.

I can't stand Nicky Butt and the sooner he's left the club the better off we'll be IMO. But we were playing shit all game before he came on so it's a bit pointless slagging Hughton for bringing him on...because we did improve as the game went on.