Dinho lad Posted December 12, 2015 Share Posted December 12, 2015 Well, they dew their last two games and won 2 out of 5 - decent , but not sure where this Spurs hype is coming from. (Again) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest neesy111 Posted December 12, 2015 Share Posted December 12, 2015 Well, they dew their last two games and won 2 out of 5 - decent , but not sure where this Spurs hype is coming from. (Again) 1 defeat all season and it's December. That's impressive. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmojorisin75 Posted December 12, 2015 Share Posted December 12, 2015 Best case is that we pick up a bit of form and confidence and move up the league. Far from impossible but it requires us building on the Liverpool win, which we haven't done so far. Tottenham away is about as bad as it gets at the moment. You really think that's possible with this manager and set of players? I don't, not even close, that's why it's "best case" with him in charge. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dinho lad Posted December 12, 2015 Share Posted December 12, 2015 Drawn more games than won. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted December 12, 2015 Share Posted December 12, 2015 Drawn more games than won. If we're talking about Spurs they started the season really slowly didn't they? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted December 12, 2015 Share Posted December 12, 2015 I would say we controlled most games that season but on the back foot. We where rarely over run and desperate. Most of the wins where by narrow score lines but comfortable. Even in games like Swansea away where we had little of the ball we where comfortable defending and dangerous in attack. Tiote and Cabaye besides Pellegrini Man City sides are the only 442 midfielders to succeed in the last few years. As a two - especially defensively. They where great. Didn't dominate possession but the team wasn't intended to do so most of the time. I'm sorry but you can't control a game on the back foot. If you are on the back foot, you certainly can't be in control of the game. I'd argue that you can't even control the game with a defensive tactic, unless you are very good at retaining possession. Pardew never had a plan, other than to stop the opposition and it rarely worked. The definition of control is the ability to define and manipulate something. That can be done with or without the ball. All those times Mourinho beats Wenger. Those times SAF beat Wenger. Or when Madrid beat Bayern in the CL. Those teams controlled the game on the backfoot with much less possession. The aim of football is to score and not concede - you don't need loads of the ball to dictate that. IN games where a team has lots of possession but doesn't look like scoring and is susceptible to the counter, they're not in control. The other team is. That's like saying you can't control a boxing bout on the backfoot. It's absurd. As time has gone on and what he's doing at Palace, it's very clear he does have a plan. But it doesn't involve having much of the football. I was agreeing with most of what you said but you had to put that in. f*** what he's doing at Palace, those players just happened to be there when he arrived and they suit his game plan - the only game plan he's got btw. The point is, he didn't have a clue what to do with the players he had here, and he was instrumental in destroying the side which finished 5th and had real potential to go on and finish top six every season with the right additions. He was a f***ing arsehole and there's every chance he degrade Palace's side as well given enough time. I fully agree he only has one game plan. But he does have one and it can work when everything is going well. Someone like Carver had no gameplan. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted December 12, 2015 Share Posted December 12, 2015 I would say we controlled most games that season but on the back foot. We where rarely over run and desperate. Most of the wins where by narrow score lines but comfortable. Even in games like Swansea away where we had little of the ball we where comfortable defending and dangerous in attack. Tiote and Cabaye besides Pellegrini Man City sides are the only 442 midfielders to succeed in the last few years. As a two - especially defensively. They where great. Didn't dominate possession but the team wasn't intended to do so most of the time. I'm sorry but you can't control a game on the back foot. If you are on the back foot, you certainly can't be in control of the game. I'd argue that you can't even control the game with a defensive tactic, unless you are very good at retaining possession. Pardew never had a plan, other than to stop the opposition and it rarely worked. The definition of control is the ability to define and manipulate something. That can be done with or without the ball. All those times Mourinho beats Wenger. Those times SAF beat Wenger. Or when Madrid beat Bayern in the CL. Those teams controlled the game on the backfoot with much less possession. The aim of football is to score and not concede - you don't need loads of the ball to dictate that. IN games where a team has lots of possession but doesn't look like scoring and is susceptible to the counter, they're not in control. The other team is. That's like saying you can't control a boxing bout on the backfoot. It's absurd. As time has gone on and what he's doing at Palace, it's very clear he does have a plan. But it doesn't involve having much of the football. I was agreeing with most of what you said but you had to put that in. f*** what he's doing at Palace, those players just happened to be there when he arrived and they suit his game plan - the only game plan he's got btw. The point is, he didn't have a clue what to do with the players he had here, and he was instrumental in destroying the side which finished 5th and had real potential to go on and finish top six every season with the right additions. He was a f***ing arsehole and there's every chance he degrade Palace's side as well given enough time. I fully agree he only has one game plan. But he does have one and it can work when everything is going well. Someone like Carver had no gameplan. He couldn't even stick to that game plan though, he used to change formations and styles after a couple of bad results. Allardyce does the horrible football game plan with conviction. Pardew's just a cunt. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted December 12, 2015 Share Posted December 12, 2015 Aye certainly he would have moments where he would really try and live that "front football with fret". Eventually, we'd get battered and it was back to keep it tight, bit of magic. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AY Posted December 12, 2015 Share Posted December 12, 2015 You can't be in control out of possession man. Very off topic, but ofc you can. If your game plan is to eliminate the opponents "fret" and keep them passing around your defensive shape. Sunderland controlled the game against Palace with a very pragmatic game plan that involved about 10% possession. They were playing for 0-0 and got a lucky winner. On the topic, I think McClaren is changing the tactic a bit. We probably will play very direct and launch it quickly towards Cisse. Spurs' defence is damn good though so can't see Cisse doing much. We are not keeping the ball as much anymore. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted December 12, 2015 Share Posted December 12, 2015 It's a shame we've gone more direct without Mitro.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interpolic Posted December 12, 2015 Share Posted December 12, 2015 Drawn more games than won. If we're talking about Spurs they started the season really slowly didn't they? They've been drawing too many games all season, otherwise they'd be top of the league or thereabouts given that they haven't lost since the first day. Only them and Leicester have 1 loss. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stifler Posted December 12, 2015 Share Posted December 12, 2015 If we catch Spurs on one of their off days we can get a point, a real possibility since they played in midweek. If not then the writing is on the wall. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted December 13, 2015 Share Posted December 13, 2015 Reading in the Times today that the Cabella complained about McClaren's training methods (passing emphasised) and got shown the door two weeks later. Then last week before the Liverpool game some more players wanted a more direct approach and apparently that's what got us the result against Liverpool. I don't know how much of this is true but if it is it's just confirmation that McClaren is not a leader and it's yet another shambolic appointment. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gallowgate Toon Posted December 13, 2015 Share Posted December 13, 2015 Reading in the Times today that the Cabella complained about McClaren's training methods (passing emphasised) and got shown the door two weeks later. Then last week before the Liverpool game some more players wanted a more direct approach and apparently that's what got us the result against Liverpool. I don't know how much of this is true but if it is it's just confirmation that McClaren is not a leader and it's yet another shambolic appointment. I don't think listening to players' feedback and changing is a particularly bad sign of leadership, like. Not saying he's a good leader but that's hardly bad, imo. If he carried on playing in a way that players were admitting to feeling uncomfortable in that would be far worse. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted December 13, 2015 Share Posted December 13, 2015 Reading in the Times today that the Cabella complained about McClaren's training methods (passing emphasised) and got shown the door two weeks later. Then last week before the Liverpool game some more players wanted a more direct approach and apparently that's what got us the result against Liverpool. I don't know how much of this is true but if it is it's just confirmation that McClaren is not a leader and it's yet another shambolic appointment. I don't think listening to players' feedback and changing is a particularly bad sign of leadership, like. Not saying he's a good leader but that's hardly bad, imo. If he carried on playing in a way that players were admitting to feeling uncomfortable in that would be far worse. But it does suggest that he doesn't really know how to operate in the premier league today. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gallowgate Toon Posted December 13, 2015 Share Posted December 13, 2015 Reading in the Times today that the Cabella complained about McClaren's training methods (passing emphasised) and got shown the door two weeks later. Then last week before the Liverpool game some more players wanted a more direct approach and apparently that's what got us the result against Liverpool. I don't know how much of this is true but if it is it's just confirmation that McClaren is not a leader and it's yet another shambolic appointment. I don't think listening to players' feedback and changing is a particularly bad sign of leadership, like. Not saying he's a good leader but that's hardly bad, imo. If he carried on playing in a way that players were admitting to feeling uncomfortable in that would be far worse. But it does suggest that he doesn't really know how to operate in the premier league today. How so? There's not one uniform style to playing football in the league. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted December 13, 2015 Share Posted December 13, 2015 Reading in the Times today that the Cabella complained about McClaren's training methods (passing emphasised) and got shown the door two weeks later. Then last week before the Liverpool game some more players wanted a more direct approach and apparently that's what got us the result against Liverpool. I don't know how much of this is true but if it is it's just confirmation that McClaren is not a leader and it's yet another shambolic appointment. I don't think listening to players' feedback and changing is a particularly bad sign of leadership, like. Not saying he's a good leader but that's hardly bad, imo. If he carried on playing in a way that players were admitting to feeling uncomfortable in that would be far worse. But it does suggest that he doesn't really know how to operate in the premier league today. How so? There's not one uniform style to playing football in the league. It's not about style though, a manager's job is to assess his squad and get them playing the most effective football to suit their abilities. That McClaren needs his players to do that for him doesn't say much for his own managerial quality. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
54 Posted December 13, 2015 Share Posted December 13, 2015 Reading in the Times today that the Cabella complained about McClaren's training methods (passing emphasised) and got shown the door two weeks later. Then last week before the Liverpool game some more players wanted a more direct approach and apparently that's what got us the result against Liverpool. I don't know how much of this is true but if it is it's just confirmation that McClaren is not a leader and it's yet another shambolic appointment. I don't think listening to players' feedback and changing is a particularly bad sign of leadership, like. Not saying he's a good leader but that's hardly bad, imo. If he carried on playing in a way that players were admitting to feeling uncomfortable in that would be far worse. But it does suggest that he doesn't really know how to operate in the premier league today. How so? There's not one uniform style to playing football in the league. It's not about style though, a manager's job is to assess his squad and get them playing the most effective football to suit their abilities. That McClaren needs his players to do that for him doesn't say much for his own managerial quality. But surely by listening to the players he's doing just that? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattoon Posted December 13, 2015 Share Posted December 13, 2015 I have to agree a Manager should be able to put his best players in the right place, it works through all management placements in any work force. However I also agree that a good manager does not live by "my way or the highway" either and should listen to his staff (players) if there are concerns, it's not a sign of weakness, no one is infallible. I can't knock him for that approach, however he's clearly not the right man for the job, even if he is doing the best he can with what he's got. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomson Mouse Posted December 13, 2015 Share Posted December 13, 2015 Reading in the Times today that the Cabella complained about McClaren's training methods (passing emphasised) and got shown the door two weeks later. Then last week before the Liverpool game some more players wanted a more direct approach and apparently that's what got us the result against Liverpool. I don't know how much of this is true but if it is it's just confirmation that McClaren is not a leader and it's yet another shambolic appointment. I don't think listening to players' feedback and changing is a particularly bad sign of leadership, like. Not saying he's a good leader but that's hardly bad, imo. If he carried on playing in a way that players were admitting to feeling uncomfortable in that would be far worse. But it does suggest that he doesn't really know how to operate in the premier league today. How so? There's not one uniform style to playing football in the league. It's not about style though, a manager's job is to assess his squad and get them playing the most effective football to suit their abilities. That McClaren needs his players to do that for him doesn't say much for his own managerial quality. Interesting though that you're choosing to absolutely believe 'The Times' version of events Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted December 13, 2015 Share Posted December 13, 2015 Reading in the Times today that the Cabella complained about McClaren's training methods (passing emphasised) and got shown the door two weeks later. Then last week before the Liverpool game some more players wanted a more direct approach and apparently that's what got us the result against Liverpool. I don't know how much of this is true but if it is it's just confirmation that McClaren is not a leader and it's yet another shambolic appointment. I don't think listening to players' feedback and changing is a particularly bad sign of leadership, like. Not saying he's a good leader but that's hardly bad, imo. If he carried on playing in a way that players were admitting to feeling uncomfortable in that would be far worse. But it does suggest that he doesn't really know how to operate in the premier league today. How so? There's not one uniform style to playing football in the league. It's not about style though, a manager's job is to assess his squad and get them playing the most effective football to suit their abilities. That McClaren needs his players to do that for him doesn't say much for his own managerial quality. Interesting though that you're choosing to absolutely believe 'The Times' version of events I did say that I don't know how much of it is true, I'm just assuming the journalist isn't just making it all up. If he is then you would think somebody at the club would pull him up about it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parsley Posted December 13, 2015 Share Posted December 13, 2015 Didn't Van Gaal - by all accounts a very autocratic-style coach - receive a lot of praise for consulting Robben, Sneijder, Van Persie and the like about Holland's system before the World Cup? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
triggs Posted December 13, 2015 Share Posted December 13, 2015 When you were doing as bad as we were consistently over a few months it shouldn't take the players telling him to realise that he should have changed something Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Bailey Posted December 13, 2015 Share Posted December 13, 2015 Top coach my hairy arse. Utter f***ing fraud. How the f*** he got this 'reputation' is beyond ridiculous. Get the weetabix haired c*** out. he's a genius Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiresias Posted December 13, 2015 Share Posted December 13, 2015 Perez and Mitrovic improve the team, who would have thought? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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