Steve McClaren

[The College Dropout]

I can understand the current midfield setup but it's not working. They're not good enough but he's going for solidity and discipline and fairly reliable sideways passing at CM the best he can. IN the hopes that gives Gini & Sissoko the platform to attack and win us matches. The system in particular allows Wijnaldum to do whatever he wants.

 

Any other system gives Sissoko/Gini our most creative and best finisher more defensive responsibility in favour of more attacking from an "inferior" player. Wijnaldum seems to be more favoured at CM on occasion and he's been poor whenever deployed there.

 

Let's say at best it was worth a try to see if it could work. It doesn't, so why persevere with it? Regarding your comment about Wijnaldum how many times has he actually played in the centre of midfield for us with a dependable defensive midfield player behind him? I've seen him play in central midfield for Holland in the World Cup and whilst not the strongest link in that side, he didn't look out of place. At PSV he also had to balance offensive and defensive duties. He has the physical attributes to be successful in that position in this league. If the alternative is to keep doing what we have been doing for the past few months it's a no brainer imo, as it keeps one of Colback/Anita out of the side and allows us to bring a winger on in their place.

 

I agree it's worth a try. I just dn't have much hope for it.

 

Gini - we don't have a dependable DM. If he's dependant on that to succeed at CM - it isn't going to happen now.

How much attacking did he do in that Holland set up? From memory - not a lot. They left it to Robben, Sneijder and RVP. I don't think it makes sense to give Gini more defensive responsibility so we can play Thauvin.

CM in Eredivisie is much different than PL.

 

People moan about Sissoko's defensive work rate and getting "stuck in" at RM now. He's not going to suddenly care about his defensive duties at CM.

 

 

But in any case. I agree it's worth a try. I just don't see it working unless the players show me something they never have.

 

[Dave]

What's our comparative points at this stage to the season we went down?

 

Halfway the lads:

 

(NUFC last ten PL seasons after nineteen games):

 

2015/16: 17 points, 18th (scored 19, conceded 34)

2014/15: 26 points, 9th (scored 22, conceded 28)

2013/14: 33 points, 8th (scored 29, conceded 24)

2012/13: 20 points, 15th (scored 23, conceded 30)

2011/12: 30 points, 7th (scored 26, conceded 25)

2010/11: 22 points, 13th (scored 28, conceded 29)

2008/09: 22 points, 12th (scored 25, conceded 27)

2007/08: 26 points, 11th (scored 26, conceded 29)

2006/07: 25 points, 11th (scored 20, conceded 21)

2005/06: 25 points, 11th (scored 18, conceded 21)

[Unbelievable]

I can understand the current midfield setup but it's not working. They're not good enough but he's going for solidity and discipline and fairly reliable sideways passing at CM the best he can. IN the hopes that gives Gini & Sissoko the platform to attack and win us matches. The system in particular allows Wijnaldum to do whatever he wants.

 

Any other system gives Sissoko/Gini our most creative and best finisher more defensive responsibility in favour of more attacking from an "inferior" player. Wijnaldum seems to be more favoured at CM on occasion and he's been poor whenever deployed there.

 

Let's say at best it was worth a try to see if it could work. It doesn't, so why persevere with it? Regarding your comment about Wijnaldum how many times has he actually played in the centre of midfield for us with a dependable defensive midfield player behind him? I've seen him play in central midfield for Holland in the World Cup and whilst not the strongest link in that side, he didn't look out of place. At PSV he also had to balance offensive and defensive duties. He has the physical attributes to be successful in that position in this league. If the alternative is to keep doing what we have been doing for the past few months it's a no brainer imo, as it keeps one of Colback/Anita out of the side and allows us to bring a winger on in their place.

 

I agree it's worth a try. I just dn't have much hope for it.

 

Gini - we don't have a dependable DM. If he's dependant on that to succeed at CM - it isn't going to happen now.

How much attacking did he do in that Holland set up? From memory - not a lot. They left it to Robben, Sneijder and RVP. I don't think it makes sense to give Gini more defensive responsibility so we can play Thauvin.

CM in Eredivisie is much different than PL.

 

 

But in any case. I agree it's worth a try. I just don't see it working unless the players show me somethnig they never have,

 

Again, you appear to have written off Thauvin based on very little evidence. He's another case of "worth a try" out wide surely in our current predicament?

 

Wijnaldum played as a box to box midfielder for Holland at the 2014 World Cup. He did a fair bit of attacking although as you say it was mainly the front three providing the danger. You say playing CM in Eredivisie is different to the PL and I won't contest that, but looking beyond that the point is that bringing back Wijnaldum may take something away from his own team which would be more than compensated in theory by what it does for the team, i.e. effectively replace one of our hopeless DM's by a winger who could provide Mitrovic with the service he so desperately needs. It's all about balance in the team, and with four central midfielders scattered across the pitch there simply is none. The midfield does not protect the back four nor does it provide the front two with anything to work with. It's been an unmitigated disaster and it's about time McClaren shook things up a little.

[Unbelievable]

What's our comparative points at this stage to the season we went down?

 

Halfway the lads:

 

(NUFC last ten PL seasons after nineteen games):

 

2015/16: 17 points, 18th (scored 19, conceded 34)

2014/15: 26 points, 9th (scored 22, conceded 28)

2013/14: 33 points, 8th (scored 29, conceded 24)

2012/13: 20 points, 15th (scored 23, conceded 30)

2011/12: 30 points, 7th (scored 26, conceded 25)

2010/11: 22 points, 13th (scored 28, conceded 29)

2008/09: 22 points, 12th (scored 25, conceded 27)

2007/08: 26 points, 11th (scored 26, conceded 29)

2006/07: 25 points, 11th (scored 20, conceded 21)

2005/06: 25 points, 11th (scored 18, conceded 21)

 

Holy shit

[sempuki]

What's our comparative points at this stage to the season we went down?

 

Halfway the lads:

 

(NUFC last ten PL seasons after nineteen games):

 

2015/16: 17 points, 18th (scored 19, conceded 34)

2014/15: 26 points, 9th (scored 22, conceded 28)

2013/14: 33 points, 8th (scored 29, conceded 24)

2012/13: 20 points, 15th (scored 23, conceded 30)

2011/12: 30 points, 7th (scored 26, conceded 25)

2010/11: 22 points, 13th (scored 28, conceded 29)

2008/09: 22 points, 12th (scored 25, conceded 27)

2007/08: 26 points, 11th (scored 26, conceded 29)

2006/07: 25 points, 11th (scored 20, conceded 21)

2005/06: 25 points, 11th (scored 18, conceded 21)

I thought we were magnificent? Those figures really show how deep we are in the shit this season.

[Zero]

I honestly can't see any defence for McClaren based on that. It's a disgraceful return.

 

This. No excuse after so many games.  We are really going down.

[The College Dropout]

Aye you're right. I don't particularly rate Thauvin. He doesn't have a good reputation in France in the media and a few people i've spoken too. Hasn't impressed me too much with what i've seen. And clearly hasn't impressed SMC either.

 

We are at a stage where we need to try something else. But i'm not hopeful at the proposition of Thauvin LM and Wijnaldum CM with Colback or Anita. But it's worth trying aye.

 

Also with Wijnaldum. When we have possession I think he wants to be ahead of play. I don't think he's that CM passer we need. He's shown little interest in that from what i've seen.

[BrettNUFC]

I honestly can't see any defence for McClaren based on that. It's a disgraceful return.

 

Aye, even the best defence lawyer in the world would struggle to muster a good looking case for him. Frightening stats those.

 

HTT's post earlier is decent but i don't think it gives enough credit to the actual talent a fair few of our players have. I've no doubt that if we had a better manager, we would be nowhere near this position. They would have tried different players, different formations/systems and found a solution to play our best football.

 

McClaren is trying to buy more and more time without actually looking to change anything but hoping he gets luck on the way. His delusion and blindness is taking us down.

[lovejoy]

those stats are damning, had no idea things were worse than ever. we're going down unless there's a change.

 

Cant defend Mcclaren anymore, especially after reading that return.

[Unbelievable]

I would personally go with Tiote in midfield and see if he can regain his old form. I know a lot of people have given up on him but I've always found that he needs a few games under his belt when he comes back from injury/absence before he gets back to something resembling his old self. Might even dangle captaincy in front of him if he performs, as he always seem to be more composed when he plays with the captaincy and our current captain offers very little in terms of on the pitch encouragement. We all know at his best Cheick pisses all over Colback and Anita in that position. As long as he is instructed to only sit back and protect the defence and is paired with someone like Wijnaldum in a two or preferably Wijnaldum and Sissoko in a three that should five us a fairly physical midfield that wouldn't get walked over by every other midfield in the country. We could then go diamond with a 10 and two forwards or play two wide players and the one forward.

 

Edit: that said, ideally we would go for a new DM who is capable of providing what Tiote once did on a consistent basis and without giving away as many fouls. It would make a world of difference.

[Unbelievable]

I honestly can't see any defence for McClaren based on that. It's a disgraceful return.

 

Aye, even the best defence lawyer in the world would struggle to muster a good looking case for him. Frightening stats those.

 

HTT's post earlier is decent but i don't think it gives enough credit to the actual talent a fair few of our players have. I've no doubt that if we had a better manager, we would be nowhere near this position. They would have tried different players, different formations/systems and found a solution to play our best football.

 

McClaren is trying to buy more and more time without actually looking to change anything but hoping he gets luck on the way. His delusion and blindness is taking us down.

 

[The College Dropout]

Fair enough. Think it would help Dummett more than anyone else.

[The College Dropout]

Also being 5-6 points better off would still have us in the shit team category of the league. 

[TRon]

I would personally go with Tiote in midfield and see if he can regain his old form. I know a lot of people have given up on him but I've always found that he needs a few games under his belt when he comes back from injury/absence before he gets back to something resembling his old self. Might even dangle captaincy in front of him if he performs, as he always seem to be more composed when he plays with the captaincy and our current captain offers very little in terms of on the pitch encouragement. We all know at his best Cheick pisses all over Colback and Anita in that position. As long as he is instructed to only sit back and protect the defence and is paired with someone like Wijnaldum in a two or preferably Wijnaldum and Sissoko in a three that should five us a fairly physical midfield that wouldn't get walked over by every other midfield in the country. We could then go diamond with a 10 and two forwards or play two wide players and the one forward.

 

Edit: that said, ideally we would go for a new DM who is capable of providing what Tiote once did on a consistent basis and without giving away as many fouls. It would make a world of difference.

 

Agree with all of that. A fit and functioning Tiote would do away with the need for two defensive midfielders to cover for Colback/Anita's lack of ability to cover ground.

[Kanj]

My team 1a or 1b:

 

1a: Perez, Mitro, Thauvin front 3, with Wijnaldum #10, Sissoko CM, Tiote/Anita DM

1b: Mitro, Perez front 2, Wijnladum #10, Thauvin LM, Sissoko RM, Tiote/Anita DM (diamond)

 

So I'm with you ManDoon and Unb

 

The teams above are the only way forward with the current crop of players.

[ilikenewcastle]

My team 1a or 1b:

 

1a: Perez, Mitro, Thauvin front 3, with Wijnaldum #10, Sissoko CM, Tiote/Anita DM

1b: Mitro, Perez front 2, Wijnladum #10, Thauvin LM, Sissoko RM, Tiote/Anita DM (diamond)

 

So I'm with you ManDoon and Unb

 

The teams above are the only way forward with the current crop of players.

 

I'm no McClaren fan, but if you want to defend him, you could argue that none of the 'best' lineups we could name right now are any good.

[Unbelievable]

Again though, they're plenty good enough to not be in the relegation zone. If, as I expect, we will be able to just about hang on to PL survival in May, will people say McClaren has overachieved by doing so? Of course they won't, and rightly so.

[ilikenewcastle]

Again though, they're plenty good enough to not be in the relegation zone. If, as I expect, we will be able to just about hang on to PL survival in May, will people say McClaren has overachieved by doing so? Of course they won't, and rightly so.

 

We should be doing better, but when you look at how severely flawed our squad is, I'm not sure how much better we can realistically do without a genius for a manager. Certainly nowhere near good enough to get that top 8 finish.

[Hanshithispantz]

This is how Wij was playing at PSV

 

http://outsideoftheboot.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/FORMATION-11.jpg

 

I know our midfield is dogshit in comparison. But we could attempt similar to the mid Pardew played at villa with Cabaye/Siss/Anita. Obvs the glaring problem is no Cabaye, but for me its the only way we will have any sort of presence in our midfield by playing three in there

Not sure why we haven't tried Sissoko in central midfield like, he covers ground better than anyone else in the squad. It's not like there's anything to lose.

[TRon]

Again though, they're plenty good enough to not be in the relegation zone. If, as I expect, we will be able to just about hang on to PL survival in May, will people say McClaren has overachieved by doing so? Of course they won't, and rightly so.

 

We should be doing better, but when you look at how severely flawed our squad is, I'm not sure how much better we can realistically do without a genius for a manager. Certainly nowhere near good enough to get that top 8 finish.

 

We aren't talking about top 8 finishes though. At this stage a top 15 finish would be considered a massive achievement. McClaren's got us in a relegation place at the moment and that's after strengthening the squad to the tune of £50m compared to the one that survived last year. Yet he thinks we're playing well.

[triggs]

Think he'll stick with the same kind of team for the Arsenal game which is probably fair enough given it worked well against Spurs and Liverpool. I actually think a decent result against Arsenal could be a bad thing in the long run as it will convince McClaren again that this system is the right one to use all the time which it clearly isn't

[Hanshithispantz]

Again though, they're plenty good enough to not be in the relegation zone. If, as I expect, we will be able to just about hang on to PL survival in May, will people say McClaren has overachieved by doing so? Of course they won't, and rightly so.

 

We should be doing better, but when you look at how severely flawed our squad is, I'm not sure how much better we can realistically do without a genius for a manager. Certainly nowhere near good enough to get that top 8 finish.

Don't get me wrong, our squad is terrible, the worst it's been since I can remember, but McClaren isn't helping himself at all. We've played this same system since Nowrich and done nothing all season to try and salvage a functioning midfield, it's Pardew levels of stubbornness.

[The College Dropout]

Pardew would've lost his nerve and changed systems by now.

[The College Dropout]

Krul aside we've been fairly lucky injury wise. CB's & RB all fit. Moussa & Wij fit. 4 attackers mostly fit. Only Krul and 2 perma crocks in Tiote & Aarons have been out for long periods of time.

[Hanshithispantz]

Pardew would've lost his nerve and changed systems by now.

He lost his nerve pretty quickly with the 4-3-3 but I think his losing streaks where reinforced by him refusing to budge from his rigid 4-4-2 or 4-5-1 (Cisse right wing)?

 

TBH that period just blends together for me now.