Nate Posted January 15, 2008 Share Posted January 15, 2008 Does anyone else think all this talk of stylish, 'carpet' football is heaping unnecessary pressure on the new manager before he's even arrived? I'm convinced Newcastle fans would be delighted if significant success came with winning 'ugly', it was losing ugly which was the problem. They need to be careful on that front, but I think it's commonly accepted (by the board and the fans) that winning is first and foremost. ... and that Newcastle are not soon to be a team that can expect to win all games, hence a "style" of football where at least those kind of inevitable losses are at least in some kind bearable and not resulting in booing-orgies again. Agree with this, most definitely. From what I've witnessed at SJP from the crowd over the past few seasons, I genuinely think the booing will be quelled if the team is going all-guns-blazing against whoever we are facing. It's different being utterly atrocious and getting beaten by Sheff Utd, etc. than it is having a go and going down fighting. For all people say that results are the top priority (which is right, of course), the performances do have a major impact on things. Even as recently as Man City, where we went 0-1 down before half-time, the players were applauded from the field because we'd been playing it on the deck and having a real go at the opposition. That said a lot to me at the time, and resonates now. Do we not have to make a choice between a manager who will come in and win and lose, in equal measure, but with flair; and one who will grind out results, build from the back and gradually create a side capable of competing with the top four? As Mort said, it is only the great managers that can combine both - how many are available to us? How many are there currently working in the league for that matter? Talking about stylish football is only going to heighten the expectations of fans when realistically nobody is going to come in and having us playing 'the beatuiful game' overnight. I'm not convinced Houllier ever would. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Belfast Boy Posted January 15, 2008 Share Posted January 15, 2008 Did we really get £8m for Hamman all those years ago? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cronky Posted January 15, 2008 Share Posted January 15, 2008 Yet again, we seem to be slipping back into the old pattern of wanting to run the club to suit the career of one man. Sticking him into some so-called 'learning experience' position with a view to eventually taking-over is only going to undermine the position of the bloke in charge. If Shearer's the best available man for the job (and I'd rather him than Houllier), then give it to him and let him pick his staff like every other manager. If he's not the best available man, then forget about him and move on. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BottledDog Posted January 15, 2008 Share Posted January 15, 2008 Really not a fan of Houllier, Liverpool were bang on to get shot of him when they did. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PRL Posted January 15, 2008 Share Posted January 15, 2008 Anelka was average when at Liverpool, i wouldn't of paid £13m for him either. He said no at the last minute to a £9m Bowyer as he felt there was something wrong with him. Smicer help win Liverpool the CL likes so many of Houlliers signings, i think that goal was worth the money. Cisse he never got to play, at the time Cisse was s*** hot, Rafa and injuries ruined that one. Pongolle is a great player, made a profit IIRC. Taore, Cheyrou were sold at a minimal loss. Lost the lot on Diao though. Good signings: Henchoz Hyypia Hamman Only reason he pulled out of Bowyer deal was because Bowyer made it clear he wasn't interested. All the Pool fans i know both at the time and now would say they wanted to keep anelka Agreed, Smicer played well in the final, still think overall he wasn't exactly a top signing though. As we won't be in any CL finals any time soon i'd suggest we are better off looking for players who perform a tad more consistently I take your point on Cisse, he did look like he would be awesome Pongolle is NOT awesome, not by any stretch. Failed at Liverpool, failed at Blackburn Cheyrou was let go for free... £4.5m loss 3 good signings, one of which they stole off us... Not really the best record for about 5 years in charge?! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PRL Posted January 15, 2008 Share Posted January 15, 2008 Houllier's transfer record is absolutely abysmal in English football - compare it to Mark Hughes (who i'm not overly excited about either and it's ludicrous). Cheyrou Salif Diao Sinima Pongolle (and that other lad who came with him) Smicer Cisse Traore He wasted so much on those players as well, they weren't cheap buys. He made allardyce look like a genius! Can someone please prove me wrong with a list of all the decent players he brought to Liverpool (under 35, so Litmanen and McCallister don't count!) and kept there (failing to secure anelka when they had him on loan, another error). I'm genuinely asking here, as i'd like to have my mind changed if it's likely he'll come in In Date Player From Fee 1998 July Vegard Heggem Rosenborg £3.5m Nov Jean-Michel Ferri Istanbulspor £1.5m 1999 Jan Frode Kippe Lillestrom £700,000 Rigobert Song Salernitana £2.72m Feb Djimi Traore Laval £550,000 May Sami Hyypia Willem II £2.6m June Titi Camara Marseille £2.6m Stephane Henchoz Blackburn £3.75m Sander Westerveld Vitesse Arnhem £4m July Vladimir Smicer Lens £3.75m Erik Meijer Bayer Leverkusen Free Dietmar Hamann Newcastle £8m 2000 Mar Emile Heskey Leicester £11m June Markus Babbel Bayern Munich Free Bernard Diomede Auxerre £3m July Pegguy Arphexad Leicester Free Gary McAllister Coventry Free Nick Barmby Everton £6m Aug Christian Ziege Middlesbrough £5.5m Sept Gregory Vignal Montpellier £500,000 Nov Danny Sjoland West Ham £1m Dec Igor Biscan Dynamo Zagreb £5.5m 2001 Jan Jari Litmanen Barcelona Free May - July John Arne Riise Monaco £4m Milan Baros Banik Ostrava £3.4m Aug Chris Kirkland Coventry £6m A Jerzy Dudek Feyenoord £4.85m Nothing really jumps off the page at you. That's worse than i thought. That's a shocking transfer record! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dokko Posted January 15, 2008 Share Posted January 15, 2008 Anelka was average when at Liverpool, i wouldn't of paid £13m for him either. He said no at the last minute to a £9m Bowyer as he felt there was something wrong with him. Smicer help win Liverpool the CL likes so many of Houlliers signings, i think that goal was worth the money. Cisse he never got to play, at the time Cisse was s*** hot, Rafa and injuries ruined that one. Pongolle is a great player, made a profit IIRC. Taore, Cheyrou were sold at a minimal loss. Lost the lot on Diao though. Good signings: Henchoz Hyypia Hamman Only reason he pulled out of Bowyer deal was because Bowyer made it clear he wasn't interested. All the Pool fans i know both at the time and now would say they wanted to keep anelka Agreed, Smicer played well in the final, still think overall he wasn't exactly a top signing though. As we won't be in any CL finals any time soon i'd suggest we are better off looking for players who perform a tad more consistently I take your point on Cisse, he did look like he would be awesome Pongolle is NOT awesome, not by any stretch. Failed at Liverpool, failed at Blackburn Cheyrou was let go for free... £4.5m loss 3 good signings, one of which they stole off us... Not really the best record for about 5 years in charge?! Pongolle is class in Spain, and was instrumental in a very important win against Betis in the CL IIRC they year the won it. Some spanish team im sure. Aye your right about Cheyrou. But there's also Dudek, Riise, Babbel, Ziege, Baros (sold at twice the price) plus many more. The CL winning team was mainly his. It dsoesn't matter if someone else was in charge of it because were only currently talking about his signings right now, and his signings won the Champions League. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SUPERTOON Posted January 15, 2008 Share Posted January 15, 2008 As i said the other day terrible transfer record he was however responsible for some decent players at Lyon Benzema and Ben Afra are just two Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve_69 Posted January 15, 2008 Share Posted January 15, 2008 Again, surely the mere fact that the man won 5+ trophies with that group of players is testament to the man's ability. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shearergol Posted January 15, 2008 Share Posted January 15, 2008 Houllier's transfer record is absolutely abysmal in English football - compare it to Mark Hughes (who i'm not overly excited about either and it's ludicrous). Cheyrou Salif Diao Sinima Pongolle (and that other lad who came with him) Smicer Cisse Traore He wasted so much on those players as well, they weren't cheap buys. He made allardyce look like a genius! Can someone please prove me wrong with a list of all the decent players he brought to Liverpool (under 35, so Litmanen and McCallister don't count!) and kept there (failing to secure anelka when they had him on loan, another error). I'm genuinely asking here, as i'd like to have my mind changed if it's likely he'll come in In Date Player From Fee 1998 July Vegard Heggem Rosenborg £3.5m Nov Jean-Michel Ferri Istanbulspor £1.5m 1999 Jan Frode Kippe Lillestrom £700,000 Rigobert Song Salernitana £2.72m Feb Djimi Traore Laval £550,000 May Sami Hyypia Willem II £2.6m June Titi Camara Marseille £2.6m Stephane Henchoz Blackburn £3.75m Sander Westerveld Vitesse Arnhem £4m July Vladimir Smicer Lens £3.75m Erik Meijer Bayer Leverkusen Free Dietmar Hamann Newcastle £8m 2000 Mar Emile Heskey Leicester £11m June Markus Babbel Bayern Munich Free Bernard Diomede Auxerre £3m July Pegguy Arphexad Leicester Free Gary McAllister Coventry Free Nick Barmby Everton £6m Aug Christian Ziege Middlesbrough £5.5m Sept Gregory Vignal Montpellier £500,000 Nov Danny Sjoland West Ham £1m Dec Igor Biscan Dynamo Zagreb £5.5m 2001 Jan Jari Litmanen Barcelona Free May - July John Arne Riise Monaco £4m Milan Baros Banik Ostrava £3.4m Aug Chris Kirkland Coventry £6m A Jerzy Dudek Feyenoord £4.85m Nothing really jumps off the page at you. That's worse than i thought. That's a shocking transfer record! I'd have been happy with Hyypia, Henchoz and Riise at the time though tbh, wouldn't you? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
spizz energi Posted January 15, 2008 Share Posted January 15, 2008 Football management...hardly rocket science is it? We just need someone with enough intelligence to stick to a simple effective formation, play the most equipped player in each position and give them a long run there, sort out the wheat from the chaff and push on from there. If our next gaffer throws the Zog back into defense I think I'll give up on football for good. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggio Posted January 15, 2008 Share Posted January 15, 2008 Surely success and league positioning is more important than how many stand out signings he made in the transfer market?! After all if the players he signed were really that bad then he wouldn't have won anything. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NG32 Posted January 15, 2008 Share Posted January 15, 2008 Hang on a minute, weren't Liverpool streets ahead of NUFC when SBR took over. Within a couple of seasons NUFC finishin 11th twice, we finished 4th and then 3rd the season after, finishing a head of Liverpool. So within 2 to 3 seasons we'd caught them up, when really under Houllier they should have been powering on and making it impossible for us to catch them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted January 15, 2008 Share Posted January 15, 2008 In Date Player From Fee 1998 July Vegard Heggem Rosenborg £3.5m Nov Jean-Michel Ferri Istanbulspor £1.5m 1999 Jan Frode Kippe Lillestrom £700,000 Rigobert Song Salernitana £2.72m Feb Djimi Traore Laval £550,000 May Sami Hyypia Willem II £2.6m June Titi Camara Marseille £2.6m Stephane Henchoz Blackburn £3.75m Sander Westerveld Vitesse Arnhem £4m July Vladimir Smicer Lens £3.75m Erik Meijer Bayer Leverkusen Free Dietmar Hamann Newcastle £8m 2000 Mar Emile Heskey Leicester £11m June Markus Babbel Bayern Munich Free Bernard Diomede Auxerre £3m July Pegguy Arphexad Leicester Free Gary McAllister Coventry Free Nick Barmby Everton £6m Aug Christian Ziege Middlesbrough £5.5m Sept Gregory Vignal Montpellier £500,000 Nov Danny Sjoland West Ham £1m Dec Igor Biscan Dynamo Zagreb £5.5m 2001 Jan Jari Litmanen Barcelona Free May - July John Arne Riise Monaco £4m Milan Baros Banik Ostrava £3.4m Aug Chris Kirkland Coventry £6m A Jerzy Dudek Feyenoord £4.85m Nothing really jumps off the page at you. All the boldened players would have improved Newcastle if they were at us during a period of time that they were at Liverpool. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaKa Posted January 15, 2008 Share Posted January 15, 2008 Houllier's transfer record is absolutely abysmal in English football - compare it to Mark Hughes (who i'm not overly excited about either and it's ludicrous). Cheyrou Salif Diao Sinima Pongolle (and that other lad who came with him) Smicer Cisse Traore He wasted so much on those players as well, they weren't cheap buys. He made allardyce look like a genius! Can someone please prove me wrong with a list of all the decent players he brought to Liverpool (under 35, so Litmanen and McCallister don't count!) and kept there (failing to secure anelka when they had him on loan, another error). I'm genuinely asking here, as i'd like to have my mind changed if it's likely he'll come in In Date Player From Fee 1998 July Vegard Heggem Rosenborg £3.5m Nov Jean-Michel Ferri Istanbulspor £1.5m 1999 Jan Frode Kippe Lillestrom £700,000 Rigobert Song Salernitana £2.72m Feb Djimi Traore Laval £550,000 May Sami Hyypia Willem II £2.6m June Titi Camara Marseille £2.6m Stephane Henchoz Blackburn £3.75m Sander Westerveld Vitesse Arnhem £4m July Vladimir Smicer Lens £3.75m Erik Meijer Bayer Leverkusen Free Dietmar Hamann Newcastle £8m 2000 Mar Emile Heskey Leicester £11m June Markus Babbel Bayern Munich Free Bernard Diomede Auxerre £3m July Pegguy Arphexad Leicester Free Gary McAllister Coventry Free Nick Barmby Everton £6m Aug Christian Ziege Middlesbrough £5.5m Sept Gregory Vignal Montpellier £500,000 Nov Danny Sjoland West Ham £1m Dec Igor Biscan Dynamo Zagreb £5.5m 2001 Jan Jari Litmanen Barcelona Free May - July John Arne Riise Monaco £4m Milan Baros Banik Ostrava £3.4m Aug Chris Kirkland Coventry £6m A Jerzy Dudek Feyenoord £4.85m Nothing really jumps off the page at you. That's worse than i thought. That's a shocking transfer record! I'd have been happy with Hyypia, Henchoz and Riise at the time though tbh, wouldn't you? None of those were really that expensive either. he was clearly trying to build a squad of players. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elma Posted January 15, 2008 Share Posted January 15, 2008 Personally, of the overseas coaches I'd be happy with Van Gaal and I'd settle for Houllier. Of the British lot, I'd prefer Shearer, perhaps with Newell. I'd rather not go back over old ground but I'd still prefer Keegan over Hughes, Redknapp or any of the other realistic British candidates, simply for the fact that it would generate a bit of atmosphere and be fun to go to again. One of the reasons KK left was the Plc, and I guess the fact that we're private again now is a factor in him putting himself forward (or at least not ruling himself out) this time. I do think that because it's Ashely and Mort rather than Shepherd means we will have a greater choice. If they are serious about Houllier, then surely they need to have a word with Cacapa. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dokko Posted January 15, 2008 Share Posted January 15, 2008 When Houllier came in at Liverpool it was a total mess. He sorted it out with signings. Here are the spends of him and Rafa: In 3 and a half years Rafael Benítez bought 45 players for £126,296,000 Rafael Benítez sold 47 players for £63,375,000 Net spend 63 million In 5 years Gerard Houllier bought 40 players for £125,400,000 Gerard Houllier sold 48 players for £60,675,000 net spend 65 million So he spent £65m net to win 6 trophies, £65m from a team which was bog standard ordinary, very poor compared to a Liverpool standard, while Rafa's spent the same but with a trophy winning team with trophy winning players, got nowhere closer to the title, and fluked one CL and was handed an FA cup. You can knock Houlliers spending but i hope he net spends £65m and wins up one trophy nevermind 6. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbo_11 Posted January 15, 2008 Share Posted January 15, 2008 At Lyon he bought: John Carew Besiktas £ 5m Benoit Pedretti Marseille Sylvain Monsoreau Sochaux Tiago Chelsea £ 6.5m Kim Kallstrom Rennes Jeremy Toulalan Nantes Sebastien Squillaci Monaco Alou Diarra Lens Milan Baros Aston Villa Also he has a policy of bringing through youth players, before he joined Liverpool he was head of technical development for the FFF. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Christian Hayne Posted January 15, 2008 Share Posted January 15, 2008 As Chris Mort has mentioned the criteria for our new manager in his programme notes for tomorrows game, surely this must mean that no manager will be appointed until thursday at the earliest? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted January 15, 2008 Share Posted January 15, 2008 Where he finished and what he won means everything. His transfers might look shit now on paper, but they achieved for him. Couldn't give a shit about them individually. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NG32 Posted January 15, 2008 Share Posted January 15, 2008 AS long as its before SAturday, we have a very important game against Bolton. We need to beat them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted January 15, 2008 Share Posted January 15, 2008 And in any case, we're the last people in the word that can talk about expensive flops. We're absolute masters at it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggio Posted January 15, 2008 Share Posted January 15, 2008 He also signed Steve Finnan too iirc as I can't see him on that list. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karjala Posted January 15, 2008 Share Posted January 15, 2008 The guy has a record of winning things, if he can win ONE fuckin decent trophy here, he'd forever be a legend. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BottledDog Posted January 15, 2008 Share Posted January 15, 2008 And in any case, we're the last people in the word that can talk about expensive flops. We're absolute masters at it. A habit that it would be nice to kick though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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