Baggio Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 From the Times just now:- "Dennis Wise quits Leeds to sign up for Newcastle revolution Matt Hughes Dennis Wise will be confirmed as the new general manager of Newcastle United today as the centrepiece of a significant restructuring of the club. In the biggest changes since Mike Ashley bought Newcastle last summer, The Times can reveal that Tony Jimenez, a London-based property developer, will join the board as a vice-president and Jeff Vetere, a scout for Real Madrid, will be appointed as technical director to complete a continental-style management structure working in support of Kevin Keegan. Keegan has been aware of Ashley’s plans to create a multi-tiered management team since he returned to the club as manager a fortnight ago, but had little say over its composition. It is understood that Wise, the Leeds United manager, was already being lined up before he was appointed. “I am very happy [about the situation],” Keegan said yesterday after further discussions with Chris Mort, his chairman. “That’s a fact.” Leeds confirmed yesterday that they had agreed a compensation package with Newcastle for Wise and he will leave after preparing the team for tonight’s Coca-Cola League One match against Southend United at Roots Hall. Keegan resumed talks with Alan Shearer last night about the former Newcastle captain taking up a part-time position � probably coaching the forwards � but Shearer will not be offered a senior role within the new structure. Wise’s appointment should not affect those discussions, however, as his remit will not include coaching and he will be primarily charged with identifying talent and buying players in the manner of a director of football. Wise and Vetere will make the initial assessment before calling in Jimenez to do the deal, though Newcastle insist that Keegan will have the final say. While many Newcastle fans will be stunned at the recruitment of such a controversial character as Wise, it is even more surprising that he has chosen to abandon his management career after mounting an impressive promotion challenge with Leeds, despite the handicap of a 15-point penalty. The Times understands, however, that Wise has told friends he no longer wants to be a manager after becoming disillusioned with the job since the departure of Gustavo Poyet, his assistant, to Tottenham Hotspur. His new position will also enable him to spend more time at the family home in Buckinghamshire as he will not be required to move to the North East. Wise will work closely with Vetere and Jimenez, who was intimately involved in his appointment and whose work for the club will be formalised when he is appointed in a part-time position today. Although his background is in property, the Spanish-speaking Jimenez is well connected in football and has a reputation as an astute deal-maker, helping to bring Juande Ramos to Tottenham as head coach before beginning work for Newcastle late last year. Jimenez has known Wise since the latter’s playing days at Chelsea a decade ago and the pair have maintained a close friendship. Vetere will also have a crucial role because, in contrast with Keegan’s first period in charge, when he scrapped the reserve team, Newcastle are pinning their hopes on youth development, hoping to follow the successful models in place at Arsenal and Seville by filling their academy with the best players from all over the world. The multilingual Vetere began his career as a youth-team manager at Rushden & Diamonds, but he was appointed overseas co-ordinator at Charlton Athletic by Alan Curbishley, who also took him to West Ham United before Vetere left for Real. On another remarkable day on Tyneside, Keegan confirmed that Joey Barton, who is on bail over an assault charge, is set to be named on the substitutes’ bench for tonight’s league fixture away to Arsenal. Barton was residing at the Sporting Chance clinic in Hampshire but now has a nightly curfew at his North East home at 7.30pm, except on match days. “His football has to do his talking now,” Keegan said." Sounds good. Can the kneejerkers put the razor blades down now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GM Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/6977/minimede0.jpg Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
eggybread Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 sounds really positive to me and shows that ashley has big plans and is hear for the long haul. looks like we are finally going to try to set up systems that this club should have had a decade ago. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 Somebody is going to be gutted if we've appointed a DOF. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incognito Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 People are saying we are a joke club.I say no way,everyone knows that Morecambe was the funny one. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnypd Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 Surely this set-up represents some of the most forward thinking we've seen at this club for a long while? Whether it will be a success or not is obviously impossible to say, but at least we seem to be moving with the times here. No pun intended. agreed, the set-up is a step in the right direction. hopefully this Vetere bloke can do the business, such a rapid ascent from Rushden to Real Madrid in only a couple of years means he mustve made an impact (or is a bit of a blagger) somewhere down the line. The rest of the set-up seems a bit less objective and more down to Ashley wanting people he knows and is comfortable working with, as he has done with Sports Direct. He knows Jimenez through Kemsley, and Wise through Jimenez. the latter sounds like he has some expertise in negotations, but i'm not sure Wise has any outstanding qualifications other than knowing the right people. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
S.S.R. Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 ... Cheers. Wise in 'decent bloke' shock? http://img517.imageshack.us/img517/7436/wiseshearerpw5.jpg http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/7153/40002887fulltimepa30024er3.jpg Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robster Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 If I remember rightly, he wasnt jumping around like a loon in front of Keegan when we scored the 4 goals against Stoke. Must be a Makem Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
macphisto Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 No doubt what I'm going to say now might already have been mentioned! Can't believe Wise is coming to the club as he really doesn't offer that much, no tactical input, no great contacts in the game and no proven track record in the game! People might say how do I now that but just look at Leeds, none of their fans are too bothered about him leaving! Also he might have contacts in the game but primarily they will be British based so they will probably almost be the same contacts that Keegan has! Lets face it the pool of talent in the UK is not great and even then what's going is very expensive! Don't know why we did not go for an outsider from outside the UK? With that we'd have someone who had a good knowledge of another country and also would probably be more familiar with the whole system of DOF. They may also have been able to have an input into the tactical side of things, had new ideas. I'm sure Keegan must know people from his days at Hamburg. I know people are praising Ashley and Mort but so far I don't think they could have done much worse in their football decisions. First of all they didn't give Allardyce much money so I'm not really sure what they expected from him. Looking back I really think he was on a loser to nothing. Also and this is a big IF, if it was their idea to get Wise then have a think about it. Their first choice of people to run Newcastle would have been Harry Redknapp and Dennis Wise! beggars belief. One of the reasons I was so pleased that we got Keegan was that I did not have too much faith in them getting any one decent after the Redknapp affair. I know people will say lets see what happens but I just think we put up with so much crap, it's untrue. Here we are getting 52,000 fans (if we were in the top four we could get a lot more too) and this is what we get! Dont even have to look at the top four, but look at Spurs and Man City. For my money they have a much better set up than ours in every department, just a crying shame! It looks to me like the only way we will have any success under Keegan and Ashley is if we spend a huge sum of money. Parky mentioned a figure of £100 million a few weeks back and thats what I really think it will take for us to be where we want to be because so far it looks like our strategy is to get in people who are good motivators and have passion. Passion will only get you so far but nowhere near where we ought to be. There's also been mention of the mysterious agents/advisers who have an influence. This al reminds me of the guy at Chelsea who advises Ambramovich, Pinni Zahavi. How these people get where they are, I'll never know! so much wrong in that. if we get a DOF (which hasn't been confirmed thats what wise'll be doing yet)fro a foreign country isn't it likely he'll have knowladge of that country alone as thats what you imply about having an english one ? each club on the continent uses DOF's differently,some have more say than others,some the head coach dictates the purchases at some they don't. the advisors who you don't know how they get where they are, a bit like scouts in that even the best are relativly anonymous. my guess is that someone reckons they have sen something in wise that he can bring here in the same way without having the great reputation someone saw something in wenger when he was merely a coach What's so wrong with what I said? The way I see football people is that everyone knows generally about what is going on at the top level in each country but not too much at other levels of the game. So I imagine that Newcastle will know about most players in the top leagues in Europe but not too much below that. So for example if we got a German DOF then he would have expert knowledge of German football and have a whole set of contacts that could be used to our effect. Contacts that we don't have at the club! Look at Man U, Liverpool and Arsenal. All of them take advantage of the foreign element to their football setup. To be honest there would be nothing wrong at getting a DOF who did not know too much about English football as we should have that well and truly covered! It would also bring in fresh ideas. The thing I have against the advisers is that they have no history of knowing about football. That's why you end up with laughable people like Grant at Chelsea and possibly Redknapp getting the Toon job! At least with scouts a lot of them will have been ex players or have dedicated their lives to football! I cannot believe your comparing Wise to Wenger, yes Wenger had to start somewhere and without knowing his history before Monaco I imagine he would have got where he did through his own brilliance and also hard work. He earned the right to be where he is. I couldn't say that about Wise! realistically those clubs mentioned have a better scouting system and players are prepared to bend over to play for them.thats why they get them from all over,not just the home nation of a member of the backroom staff. advisors....the advisors we are talking about vetere, has been involved in football throughout his life and jiminez was instrumental in getting ramos to spurs. yes i'll compare wise to wenger at the appropriate stage of their careers. what i'm driving at is that sometimes someone sees something (imagine telling people 20 years ago what wenger would go on to do ?) and that job works (think keegan telling you barry venison would play central midfield for england when we just signed him) i'm not sure about bringing wise in only because i don't know what his role is ? i have no idea of his capabilities unlike some on here who really should be running the club. Obviously we're not going to agree. You're right about the other clubs having better scouting set ups and getting players from all over the world but if you look at Arsenal they sign a lot of French players, Liverpool Spanish and Man U Portuguese. That's not coincidence, they just have a lot of contacts there who they can trust in those countries! Also good to have these ties to help players settle at the club. We'll also have to disagree on the advisers because as I said they are nothing but hanger ons in my opinion. Just taking all the money out the game. Sure I read on this thread that Jiminez is 33 years old so I wonder how he got to where he is? It also looks like at this point that we'll not be able to compare Wenger and Wise for much longer. One went on to manage top clubs and thrive in the game. Whereas Wise has decided at a young age to quit management at a big club (which Leeds are) and be involved in the management of the club. For me a person who loves football would want to manager at Leeds, make their mark and move on to a better club. We’ll see what he brings in time. With regards to running the football club, can’t comment on the business side of things but with regards to the football decisions I really have not been impressed by the current set up at all, just completely baffled! Maybe they know something I don’t. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colos Short and Curlies Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 No doubt what I'm going to say now might already have been mentioned! Can't believe Wise is coming to the club as he really doesn't offer that much, no tactical input, no great contacts in the game and no proven track record in the game! People might say how do I now that but just look at Leeds, none of their fans are too bothered about him leaving! Also he might have contacts in the game but primarily they will be British based so they will probably almost be the same contacts that Keegan has! Lets face it the pool of talent in the UK is not great and even then what's going is very expensive! Don't know why we did not go for an outsider from outside the UK? With that we'd have someone who had a good knowledge of another country and also would probably be more familiar with the whole system of DOF. They may also have been able to have an input into the tactical side of things, had new ideas. I'm sure Keegan must know people from his days at Hamburg. I know people are praising Ashley and Mort but so far I don't think they could have done much worse in their football decisions. First of all they didn't give Allardyce much money so I'm not really sure what they expected from him. Looking back I really think he was on a loser to nothing. Also and this is a big IF, if it was their idea to get Wise then have a think about it. Their first choice of people to run Newcastle would have been Harry Redknapp and Dennis Wise! beggars belief. One of the reasons I was so pleased that we got Keegan was that I did not have too much faith in them getting any one decent after the Redknapp affair. I know people will say let’s see what happens but I just think we put up with so much crap, it's untrue. Here we are getting 52,000 fans (if we were in the top four we could get a lot more too) and this is what we get! Don’t even have to look at the top four, but look at Spurs and Man City. For my money they have a much better set up than ours in every department, just a crying shame! It looks to me like the only way we will have any success under Keegan and Ashley is if we spend a huge sum of money. Parky mentioned a figure of £100 million a few weeks back and that’s what I really think it will take for us to be where we want to be because so far it looks like our strategy is to get in people who are good motivators and have “passion”. Passion will only get you so far but nowhere near where we ought to be. There's also been mention of the mysterious agents/advisers who have an influence. This al reminds me of the guy at Chelsea who advises Ambramovich, Pinni Zahavi. How these people get where they are, I'll never know! so much wrong in that. if we get a DOF (which hasn't been confirmed thats what wise'll be doing yet)fro a foreign country isn't it likely he'll have knowladge of that country alone as thats what you imply about having an english one ? each club on the continent uses DOF's differently,some have more say than others,some the head coach dictates the purchases at some they don't. the advisors who you don't know how they get where they are, a bit like scouts in that even the best are relativly anonymous. my guess is that someone reckons they have sen something in wise that he can bring here in the same way without having the great reputation someone saw something in wenger when he was merely a coach What's so wrong with what I said? The way I see football people is that everyone knows generally about what is going on at the top level in each country but not too much at other levels of the game. So I imagine that Newcastle will know about most players in the top leagues in Europe but not too much below that. So for example if we got a German DOF then he would have expert knowledge of German football and have a whole set of contacts that could be used to our effect. Contacts that we don't have at the club! Look at Man U, Liverpool and Arsenal. All of them take advantage of the foreign element to their football setup. To be honest there would be nothing wrong at getting a DOF who did not know too much about English football as we should have that well and truly covered! It would also bring in fresh ideas. The thing I have against the advisers is that they have no history of knowing about football. That's why you end up with laughable people like Grant at Chelsea and possibly Redknapp getting the Toon job! At least with scouts a lot of them will have been ex players or have dedicated their lives to football! I cannot believe your comparing Wise to Wenger, yes Wenger had to start somewhere and without knowing his history before Monaco I imagine he would have got where he did through his own brilliance and also hard work. He earned the right to be where he is. I couldn't say that about Wise! That would be the A Grant with a better record than Jose over his first 28/29 games in charge at Chelsea then. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Lol Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 From the Times just now:- "Dennis Wise quits Leeds to sign up for Newcastle revolution Matt Hughes Dennis Wise will be confirmed as the new general manager of Newcastle United today as the centrepiece of a significant restructuring of the club. In the biggest changes since Mike Ashley bought Newcastle last summer, The Times can reveal that Tony Jimenez, a London-based property developer, will join the board as a vice-president and Jeff Vetere, a scout for Real Madrid, will be appointed as technical director to complete a continental-style management structure working in support of Kevin Keegan. Keegan has been aware of Ashleys plans to create a multi-tiered management team since he returned to the club as manager a fortnight ago, but had little say over its composition. It is understood that Wise, the Leeds United manager, was already being lined up before he was appointed. I am very happy [about the situation], Keegan said yesterday after further discussions with Chris Mort, his chairman. Thats a fact. Leeds confirmed yesterday that they had agreed a compensation package with Newcastle for Wise and he will leave after preparing the team for tonights Coca-Cola League One match against Southend United at Roots Hall. Keegan resumed talks with Alan Shearer last night about the former Newcastle captain taking up a part-time position � probably coaching the forwards � but Shearer will not be offered a senior role within the new structure. Wises appointment should not affect those discussions, however, as his remit will not include coaching and he will be primarily charged with identifying talent and buying players in the manner of a director of football. Wise and Vetere will make the initial assessment before calling in Jimenez to do the deal, though Newcastle insist that Keegan will have the final say. While many Newcastle fans will be stunned at the recruitment of such a controversial character as Wise, it is even more surprising that he has chosen to abandon his management career after mounting an impressive promotion challenge with Leeds, despite the handicap of a 15-point penalty. The Times understands, however, that Wise has told friends he no longer wants to be a manager after becoming disillusioned with the job since the departure of Gustavo Poyet, his assistant, to Tottenham Hotspur. His new position will also enable him to spend more time at the family home in Buckinghamshire as he will not be required to move to the North East. Wise will work closely with Vetere and Jimenez, who was intimately involved in his appointment and whose work for the club will be formalised when he is appointed in a part-time position today. Although his background is in property, the Spanish-speaking Jimenez is well connected in football and has a reputation as an astute deal-maker, helping to bring Juande Ramos to Tottenham as head coach before beginning work for Newcastle late last year. Jimenez has known Wise since the latters playing days at Chelsea a decade ago and the pair have maintained a close friendship. Vetere will also have a crucial role because, in contrast with Keegans first period in charge, when he scrapped the reserve team, Newcastle are pinning their hopes on youth development, hoping to follow the successful models in place at Arsenal and Seville by filling their academy with the best players from all over the world. The multilingual Vetere began his career as a youth-team manager at Rushden & Diamonds, but he was appointed overseas co-ordinator at Charlton Athletic by Alan Curbishley, who also took him to West Ham United before Vetere left for Real. On another remarkable day on Tyneside, Keegan confirmed that Joey Barton, who is on bail over an assault charge, is set to be named on the substitutes bench for tonights league fixture away to Arsenal. Barton was residing at the Sporting Chance clinic in Hampshire but now has a nightly curfew at his North East home at 7.30pm, except on match days. His football has to do his talking now, Keegan said." Sounds good. Can the kneejerkers put the razor blades down now. There's a bit more about Jimenez here: http://www.mailonsunday.co.uk/pages/live/articles/sport/football.html?in_article_id=490125&in_page_id=1779 Also shows the close connections with Kemsley, Spurs etc etc................. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fredbob Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 Very pleased with the structure to be fair. I have absolutly no credible opinions on the personell (just like everyone else) because i have no idea what there roles entail, i think its refreshing to see a modern structure put in place for this club with definite directives. My only issue with this appointment would be if the manager was to be undermined byt Wise et al, which would be a major issue. Im praying the Keegan has the final word in this and it is all down to him at the end of the day but i agree that this is the way forward. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 How does this compare with the Spurs setup? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 Obviously we're not going to agree. You're right about the other clubs having better scouting set ups and getting players from all over the world but if you look at Arsenal they sign a lot of French players, Liverpool Spanish and Man U Portuguese. That's not coincidence, they just have a lot of contacts there who they can trust in those countries! Also good to have these ties to help players settle at the club. look at how long it has been since queiroz worked in portugal and after an initial flurry rafa eased on the spaniards (even i could spot torres as a talent. right about wenger and french players but not just french he just has a very good knack of finding talent. you're part right about the advisors as some are like that,as are a lot of ex players who talk shite about the game and know less that you or me (ever listened to steve claridge ?). agree with you about wise personal decision to move being slightly odd. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 A DOF doesn't necisarrily make the signings, the set up at Spurs isn't the blueprint for how all clubs have to do it. For all Allardyce's faults he did start putting some foundations in behind the scenes, Keegan even said that himself the other day, the problem is football is too big to expect one man to run everything which I've been saying for years now, the manager should be in charge of the first team and that's it, that's what he should be concentrating on and not wasting his time trying to set about developing our youth programme and go about organising scouting missions, do people expect Keegan to sign young lads like Tozer, Kadar etc? I don't and I don't want him spending time that he could be devoting to the first team doing it either, leave it to someone else. The man should be independent from the manager too, we've seen in the past when Robson was sacked that the whole backroom staff leave and it often leaves the club with a massive rebuilding job, I don't think Wise will have any influence over Keegan and Keegan won't have any influence over Wise, people need to try and separate the two roles and realise on a daily basis they have little to do with each other. As for Wise, he wouldn't have been my choice but I'm going off my opinion of him as a player and what he's done as a manager, I don't know what he's like as a person or how he goes about things behind the scenes, someone has obviously tipped the club off in regards to what he has to offer in such a role so lets wait and see how he gets on. Best post by a mile on this subject, considering it wasn't made in hindisight. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 There's a bit more about Jimenez here: http://www.mailonsunday.co.uk/pages/live/articles/sport/football.html?in_article_id=490125&in_page_id=1779 Also shows the close connections with Kemsley, Spurs etc etc................. I think I've got you sussed, if we do well Spurs get the credit. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Lol Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 How does this compare with the Spurs setup? Hard to say really because who will have the say as to whether a player is signed, Wise? Vetere? An agreement between the two? Does Keegan have any input? The build seems to be very similar to Spurs, it's who has an input and who makes the decisions where it may vary. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Lol Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 There's a bit more about Jimenez here: http://www.mailonsunday.co.uk/pages/live/articles/sport/football.html?in_article_id=490125&in_page_id=1779 Also shows the close connections with Kemsley, Spurs etc etc................. I think I've got you sussed, if we do well Spurs get the credit. In time all clubs will operate this way. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 How does this compare with the Spurs setup? Hard to say really because who will have the say as to whether a player is signed, Wise? Vetere? An agreement between the two? Does Keegan have any input? The build seems to be very similar to Spurs, it's who has an input and who makes the decisions where it may vary. Aye, we might let our manager have the final say! At least I'd hope so, especially as pertains to first team players. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicky Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 Must admit, i'm rather excited by it all. Should see a lot more promising youth players joining the club. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wullie Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 Amongst all the media bollocks, fair play to the Daily Mail like *spit*. They had this one in the bag ages ago. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 Amongst all the media bollocks, fair play to the Daily Mail like *spit*. They had this one in the bag ages ago. They've even got a couple of fairly decent articles about it in tomorrow's paper as well. Amazed. Even a broken watch is right twice a day, like... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Lol Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 How does this compare with the Spurs setup? Hard to say really because who will have the say as to whether a player is signed, Wise? Vetere? An agreement between the two? Does Keegan have any input? The build seems to be very similar to Spurs, it's who has an input and who makes the decisions where it may vary. Aye, we might let our manager have the final say! At least I'd hope so, especially as pertains to first team players. Ramos doesn't have the final say but he does have a veto so he can't be given somebody he doesn't want. With Jol, who never had a veto, got Jenas who he never rated. On the other side of the coin Jol desperately wanted Martin Petrov, best mates with Berbatov, and Jol thought that would stop him thinking of ManUtd. Petrov's demands went straight through the roof of the wage structure so Levy and Comolli agreed it was a non-starter even though Jol thought they should have 'made an exception'. Make an exception for one and the rest of the squad will be looking for a payrise. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BONTEMPI Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 Who's the number 2 going to be? Terry Mac again? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fredbob Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 Amongst all the media bollocks, fair play to the Daily Mail like *spit*. They had this one in the bag ages ago. Daily Mail *spit* a reasonably reliable source now?? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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