Other clubs' transfers

[johnnypd]

Carrick was well worth it, and a better deal for Man Utd than Spurs. his presence helped transform man utd into a league and champion's league winning side and his departure knocked spurs' progress back a bit as i think they would've finished 4th earlier had they kept him.

 

last season wasn't the best for carrick but his poor form has been blown out of proportion a bit, i saw him have good games last season, ie in the league cup vs man city and it only seemed to be the last few months when his form collapsed and that's what people are remembering. he'd still be a very, very good player for anyone outside the top four, and probably one or two sides within the top four. But Man Utd do need a better deep-lying midfielder than Carrick to play alongside Fletcher if they want to get back to being the best in england and europe. Anderson and Gibson don't look anything special. they also need to replace Scholes which is probably what the Sneijder bid is all about - maybe they'll get Ozil instead.

[mrmojorisin75]

Carrick was well worth it, and a better deal for Man Utd than Spurs. his presence helped transform man utd into a league and champion's league winning side and his departure knocked spurs' progress back a bit as i think they would've finished 4th earlier had they kept him.

 

last season wasn't the best for carrick but his poor form has been blown out of proportion a bit, i saw him have good games last season, ie in the league cup vs man city and it only seemed to be the last few months when his form collapsed and that's what people are remembering. he'd still be a very, very good player for anyone outside the top four, and probably one or two sides within the top four. But Man Utd do need a better deep-lying midfielder than Carrick to play alongside Fletcher if they want to get back to being the best in england and europe. Anderson and Gibson don't look anything special. they also need to replace Scholes which is probably what the Sneijder bid is all about - maybe they'll get Ozil instead.

agreed, hargreaves & carrick were excellent signings for fergie...even taking into account they way things have gone recently they were instrumental in the 3 consecutive titles they won

[Village Idiot]

Marca reports that Madrid have bid €8m for Khedira.

[Colocho]

Marca reports that Madrid have bid €8m for Khedira.

 

He's worth double that in today's market.

[Martin Lol]

He's definitely not inferior to Gibson.

 

Gibson is crap, like really crap. Beyond having a canny shot once in a while he's terrible technically, in terms of passing, vision etc. He actually would struggle to improve our midfield in that sense.

 

But I take it you're referring to the Carrick that moved to ManU for £14m and had a few solid seasons for them, as opposed to the Carrick that played last year for them?

 

His entire game is based around his passing/distribution. He's not a natural ball winner, he's not the most athletic of players, he's not a goal threat, and technically he's very limited on the ball (which is why he passes it quickly in the first place). Since he was very poor last year in terms of passing/distributing the ball, shockingly so at times, and his touch had deserted him, he was pretty much a nothing player for ManU. Compared to Gibson, he looked inferior when Gibson did play imo. Can't say I noticed Gibson's touch/passing being awful, maybe you're right, but with Carrick being so visibly piss poor, merely posing a goal threat was enough for Gibson to look a better player imo. And given that Gibson is younger with possibly more room to improve as well as being from the ManU academy, maybe Fergie sees him as a better prospect than Carrick?

 

Or as Dave says, it might be that he wants to bring through other prospects. But with Scholes and Giggs on the wane, and Carrick being in a prime age for a midfielder in his position, surely Fergie wanting him out should ring alarm bells for anyone? Assuming there's truth in this rumour. And of course the notion of him being another Butt type Fergie cast-off depends on whether last season was a blip for Carrick, or the start of a slide. If Fergie does let him go, I'd hedge my bets on it being the latter - he's not infallable, but if there's a manager out there who excels at getting rid of players at the right time then it's Fergie.

 

Pique, Rossi and Forlan for example?

[Tooj]

He's definitely not inferior to Gibson.

 

Gibson is crap, like really crap. Beyond having a canny shot once in a while he's terrible technically, in terms of passing, vision etc. He actually would struggle to improve our midfield in that sense.

 

But I take it you're referring to the Carrick that moved to ManU for £14m and had a few solid seasons for them, as opposed to the Carrick that played last year for them?

 

His entire game is based around his passing/distribution. He's not a natural ball winner, he's not the most athletic of players, he's not a goal threat, and technically he's very limited on the ball (which is why he passes it quickly in the first place). Since he was very poor last year in terms of passing/distributing the ball, shockingly so at times, and his touch had deserted him, he was pretty much a nothing player for ManU. Compared to Gibson, he looked inferior when Gibson did play imo. Can't say I noticed Gibson's touch/passing being awful, maybe you're right, but with Carrick being so visibly piss poor, merely posing a goal threat was enough for Gibson to look a better player imo. And given that Gibson is younger with possibly more room to improve as well as being from the ManU academy, maybe Fergie sees him as a better prospect than Carrick?

 

Or as Dave says, it might be that he wants to bring through other prospects. But with Scholes and Giggs on the wane, and Carrick being in a prime age for a midfielder in his position, surely Fergie wanting him out should ring alarm bells for anyone? Assuming there's truth in this rumour. And of course the notion of him being another Butt type Fergie cast-off depends on whether last season was a blip for Carrick, or the start of a slide. If Fergie does let him go, I'd hedge my bets on it being the latter - he's not infallable, but if there's a manager out there who excels at getting rid of players at the right time then it's Fergie.

 

Pique, Rossi and Forlan for example?

 

McGrath, Stam and Van Nistelrooy.

[Ronaldo]

Stam and Van Nistelrooj had a good 2 seasons left in them.

[Tooj]

Stam and Van Nistelrooj had a good 2 seasons left in them.

 

That was my point - I was adding them to his list. My apologies, I forgot to put as well on the end of my post. 

[Ronaldo]

OK, LLLO has somewhat redefined the use of the .

 

I also couldn't believe Tooj was saying something positive about RVN.

[Tooj]

OK, LLLO has somewhat redefined the use of the .

 

I also couldn't believe Tooj was saying something positive about RVN.

 

Even though I've always said he was top class? He's always been a massive twat though.

 

Although you've probably got a post of mine that contradicts what I've just said in your favourites.

[Mr. Snrub]

Van Nistelrooy is one of the best finishers the Premier league has ever had, man.

 

It's hard not to say anything positive about him.

[johnnypd]

fergie was right about RVN and Rossi, horseface was still a very good player as he proved but didn't fit the new system they wanted to implement, while Rossi wasn't good enough, UEFA cup standard at best and not particularly suited to english football, for €10m it was a good piece of business. Stam was a mistake, mind. Forlan, well, we'll never know if he would've developed as he did had he stayed, he needed the change for his career to take off. Man Utd got Rooney that summer too so his chances would've been limited.

[Tooj]

I've saved him the bother btw.

 

http://www.newcastle-online.org/nufcforum/index.php/topic,63648.0.html#quickreply

[Guest BooBoo]

Fergie getting rid of McGrath had little to do with his ability and everything to do with kicking the drinking culture out of Old Trafford.

[Tooj]

Fergie getting rid of McGrath had little to do with his ability and everything to do with kicking the drinking culture out of Old Trafford.

 

He couldn't handle him basically.

 

That's what gets me with the whole Gazza choosing Spurs over Man Utd. Everybody spouts on about how Ferguson would have made sure he kept on the straight and narrow. Not back then - he would have lost patience with him and sold him.

[Guest gggg]

Fergie getting rid of McGrath had little to do with his ability and everything to do with kicking the drinking culture out of Old Trafford.

 

That's why he kept Robson around for another 5 years.

[Ronaldo]

OK, LLLO has somewhat redefined the use of the .

 

I also couldn't believe Tooj was saying something positive about RVN.

 

Even though I've always said he was top class? He's always been a massive t*** though.

 

Although you've probably got a post of mine that contradicts what I've just said in your favourites.

 

I just had a feeling that you didn't like him as a player.

[Tooj]

OK, LLLO has somewhat redefined the use of the .

 

I also couldn't believe Tooj was saying something positive about RVN.

 

Even though I've always said he was top class? He's always been a massive t*** though.

 

Although you've probably got a post of mine that contradicts what I've just said in your favourites.

 

I just had a feeling that you didn't like him as a player.

 

How can you not like him as a player? He was the best of his kind (as in out and out goal-scorer) for a good number of years. His determination to score reminded me of Shearer's. As in he would do quite easily throw his own mother out of the way if it meant he got on the end of a ball into the box.

 

I never liked the diving, cheating side of him though.

[Ronaldo]

I loved it, he always made me laugh. Great player too.

[Gash]

Van Nistelrooy is one of the best finishers the Premier league has ever had, man.

 

It's hard not to say anything positive about him.

He was a cheat and everything i hate in a player.

One of the finest finishers around though.

http://img.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2007/10_04/NistelrooyDM0111_468x949.jpg

 

[tmonkey]

He's definitely not inferior to Gibson.

 

Gibson is crap, like really crap. Beyond having a canny shot once in a while he's terrible technically, in terms of passing, vision etc. He actually would struggle to improve our midfield in that sense.

 

But I take it you're referring to the Carrick that moved to ManU for £14m and had a few solid seasons for them, as opposed to the Carrick that played last year for them?

 

His entire game is based around his passing/distribution. He's not a natural ball winner, he's not the most athletic of players, he's not a goal threat, and technically he's very limited on the ball (which is why he passes it quickly in the first place). Since he was very poor last year in terms of passing/distributing the ball, shockingly so at times, and his touch had deserted him, he was pretty much a nothing player for ManU. Compared to Gibson, he looked inferior when Gibson did play imo. Can't say I noticed Gibson's touch/passing being awful, maybe you're right, but with Carrick being so visibly piss poor, merely posing a goal threat was enough for Gibson to look a better player imo. And given that Gibson is younger with possibly more room to improve as well as being from the ManU academy, maybe Fergie sees him as a better prospect than Carrick?

 

Or as Dave says, it might be that he wants to bring through other prospects. But with Scholes and Giggs on the wane, and Carrick being in a prime age for a midfielder in his position, surely Fergie wanting him out should ring alarm bells for anyone? Assuming there's truth in this rumour. And of course the notion of him being another Butt type Fergie cast-off depends on whether last season was a blip for Carrick, or the start of a slide. If Fergie does let him go, I'd hedge my bets on it being the latter - he's not infallable, but if there's a manager out there who excels at getting rid of players at the right time then it's Fergie.

 

Pique, Rossi and Forlan for example?

 

1) "He's not infallible". You even highlighted it. Yes, he does make mistakes, but I'm not denying this rumoured Carrick sale might be one.

 

2) No manager has a 100% track record in anything. Are you saying Fergie doesn't excel at getting rid of players at the right time because of a handful of counter examples? What next, Wenger doesn't excel at blooding youth into the first team because of Bentley, Hoyte and Merida?

 

3) We all know about Pique, Forlan, Rossi, Beckham, Stam, RvN, Kanchelskis, Ince, Hughes, McGrath, so on and so forth. Didn't think it was worthwhile including any references to them though, as they're not relevant to Carrick specifically, other than the last set of players. The premise I'm referring to is that Fergie only really sells "good" players if they're foreigners who've failed to adapt (Forlan, Veron), youngsters who've not broken into the first team (Pique, Rossi), or players he's fallen out with (Stam, Beckham, RvN). Carrick doesn't fit any of these profiles. Beyond that, he doesn't tend to get rid of first team players unless they've dropped a level or two (e.g. Andy Cole, Butt) or were never really good enough in the first place (Phil Neville), with youngsters or replacements at a similar level with the potential to get better waiting in the wings (and yes, I know who C.Ronaldo is). Carrick at his best is/was good enough for ManU's first team in the holding midfield role, he's in his prime years, he's experienced at all levels. If there is a sale and there hasn't been a fallout behind the scenes, imo it'll be because Fergie has seen (or thinks he's seen) a drop in ability/performance levels.

[Thespence]

Fergie getting rid of McGrath had little to do with his ability and everything to do with kicking the drinking culture out of Old Trafford.

 

He couldn't handle him basically.

 

That's what gets me with the whole Gazza choosing Spurs over Man Utd. Everybody spouts on about how Ferguson would have made sure he kept on the straight and narrow. Not back then - he would have lost patience with him and sold him.

 

A young man is easier to mold than someone who as the age of McGrath. Fergie was also dumping Bryan Robsons drinking buddies to save Robson.

[sander68]

Estonian winger Tarmo Kink is having a medical at Middlesbrough.

[Martin Lol]

He's definitely not inferior to Gibson.

 

Gibson is crap, like really crap. Beyond having a canny shot once in a while he's terrible technically, in terms of passing, vision etc. He actually would struggle to improve our midfield in that sense.

 

But I take it you're referring to the Carrick that moved to ManU for £14m and had a few solid seasons for them, as opposed to the Carrick that played last year for them?

 

His entire game is based around his passing/distribution. He's not a natural ball winner, he's not the most athletic of players, he's not a goal threat, and technically he's very limited on the ball (which is why he passes it quickly in the first place). Since he was very poor last year in terms of passing/distributing the ball, shockingly so at times, and his touch had deserted him, he was pretty much a nothing player for ManU. Compared to Gibson, he looked inferior when Gibson did play imo. Can't say I noticed Gibson's touch/passing being awful, maybe you're right, but with Carrick being so visibly piss poor, merely posing a goal threat was enough for Gibson to look a better player imo. And given that Gibson is younger with possibly more room to improve as well as being from the ManU academy, maybe Fergie sees him as a better prospect than Carrick?

 

Or as Dave says, it might be that he wants to bring through other prospects. But with Scholes and Giggs on the wane, and Carrick being in a prime age for a midfielder in his position, surely Fergie wanting him out should ring alarm bells for anyone? Assuming there's truth in this rumour. And of course the notion of him being another Butt type Fergie cast-off depends on whether last season was a blip for Carrick, or the start of a slide. If Fergie does let him go, I'd hedge my bets on it being the latter - he's not infallable, but if there's a manager out there who excels at getting rid of players at the right time then it's Fergie.

 

Pique, Rossi and Forlan for example?

 

1) "He's not infallible". You even highlighted it. Yes, he does make mistakes, but I'm not denying this rumoured Carrick sale might be one.

 

2) No manager has a 100% track record in anything. Are you saying Fergie doesn't excel at getting rid of players at the right time because of a handful of counter examples? What next, Wenger doesn't excel at blooding youth into the first team because of Bentley, Hoyte and Merida?

 

3) We all know about Pique, Forlan, Rossi, Beckham, Stam, RvN, Kanchelskis, Ince, Hughes, McGrath, so on and so forth. Didn't think it was worthwhile including any references to them though, as they're not relevant to Carrick specifically, other than the last set of players. The premise I'm referring to is that Fergie only really sells "good" players if they're foreigners who've failed to adapt (Forlan, Veron), youngsters who've not broken into the first team (Pique, Rossi), or players he's fallen out with (Stam, Beckham, RvN). Carrick doesn't fit any of these profiles. Beyond that, he doesn't tend to get rid of first team players unless they've dropped a level or two (e.g. Andy Cole, Butt) or were never really good enough in the first place (Phil Neville), with youngsters or replacements at a similar level with the potential to get better waiting in the wings (and yes, I know who C.Ronaldo is). Carrick at his best is/was good enough for ManU's first team in the holding midfield role, he's in his prime years, he's experienced at all levels. If there is a sale and there hasn't been a fallout behind the scenes, imo it'll be because Fergie has seen (or thinks he's seen) a drop in ability/performance levels.

[/quote

The point I was making was that Fergie in my opinion is nowhere near the best at s

 

He's definitely not inferior to Gibson.

 

Gibson is crap, like really crap. Beyond having a canny shot once in a while he's terrible technically, in terms of passing, vision etc. He actually would struggle to improve our midfield in that sense.

 

But I take it you're referring to the Carrick that moved to ManU for £14m and had a few solid seasons for them, as opposed to the Carrick that played last year for them?

 

His entire game is based around his passing/distribution. He's not a natural ball winner, he's not the most athletic of players, he's not a goal threat, and technically he's very limited on the ball (which is why he passes it quickly in the first place). Since he was very poor last year in terms of passing/distributing the ball, shockingly so at times, and his touch had deserted him, he was pretty much a nothing player for ManU. Compared to Gibson, he looked inferior when Gibson did play imo. Can't say I noticed Gibson's touch/passing being awful, maybe you're right, but with Carrick being so visibly piss poor, merely posing a goal threat was enough for Gibson to look a better player imo. And given that Gibson is younger with possibly more room to improve as well as being from the ManU academy, maybe Fergie sees him as a better prospect than Carrick?

 

Or as Dave says, it might be that he wants to bring through other prospects. But with Scholes and Giggs on the wane, and Carrick being in a prime age for a midfielder in his position, surely Fergie wanting him out should ring alarm bells for anyone? Assuming there's truth in this rumour. And of course the notion of him being another Butt type Fergie cast-off depends on whether last season was a blip for Carrick, or the start of a slide. If Fergie does let him go, I'd hedge my bets on it being the latter - he's not infallable, but if there's a manager out there who excels at getting rid of players at the right time then it's Fergie.

 

Pique, Rossi and Forlan for example?

 

1) "He's not infallible". You even highlighted it. Yes, he does make mistakes, but I'm not denying this rumoured Carrick sale might be one.

 

2) No manager has a 100% track record in anything. Are you saying Fergie doesn't excel at getting rid of players at the right time because of a handful of counter examples? What next, Wenger doesn't excel at blooding youth into the first team because of Bentley, Hoyte and Merida?

 

3) We all know about Pique, Forlan, Rossi, Beckham, Stam, RvN, Kanchelskis, Ince, Hughes, McGrath, so on and so forth. Didn't think it was worthwhile including any references to them though, as they're not relevant to Carrick specifically, other than the last set of players. The premise I'm referring to is that Fergie only really sells "good" players if they're foreigners who've failed to adapt (Forlan, Veron), youngsters who've not broken into the first team (Pique, Rossi), or players he's fallen out with (Stam, Beckham, RvN). Carrick doesn't fit any of these profiles. Beyond that, he doesn't tend to get rid of first team players unless they've dropped a level or two (e.g. Andy Cole, Butt) or were never really good enough in the first place (Phil Neville), with youngsters or replacements at a similar level with the potential to get better waiting in the wings (and yes, I know who C.Ronaldo is). Carrick at his best is/was good enough for ManU's first team in the holding midfield role, he's in his prime years, he's experienced at all levels. If there is a sale and there hasn't been a fallout behind the scenes, imo it'll be because Fergie has seen (or thinks he's seen) a drop in ability/performance levels.

 

The point I was making was that in my opinion Fergie is nowhere near the best manager at getting rid of players at the right time.  That title, much as it pains me to say it, goes to Wenger.  The number of players he has bought relatively cheaply, sold them for significant figures after their best years have gone and then watch them go downhill, is quite unbelievable.  Yes, he brings in some youngsters, sells some he feels he doesn't need, but even then there is usually a sell-on clause built in. 

 

If I were an Arsenal fan, my only criticism of Wenger would be that he sometimes perseveres with players who patently are not enough enough for the squad he has built.  That  apart, his judgement of using youngsters, selling established players at the right time and signing players who fit well into his system, is pretty near faultless, far better than Fergie's (in my opinion).

[Cajun]

Estonian winger Tarmo Kink is having a medical at Middlesbrough.

 

Kinky.