The Euro 2008 thread: Spain are European champions

[James]

The current Dutch team is the worst there has been for years and will go out in the first round.

[Unbelievable]

That may be so, but if so it will be in big part because of the opposition in the group. I mean, both World Cup finalists ffs. With opposition such as on show tonight or tomorrow we would walk the first round, and I seriously believe we have one of the best attacks in the competition. The defence is a concern though..

[Optimistic Nut]

That may be so, but if so it will be in big part because of the opposition in the group. I mean, both World Cup finalists ffs. With opposition such as on show tonight or tomorrow we would walk the first round, and I seriously believe we have one of the best attacks in the competition. The defence is a concern though..

 

Scotland could claim the same thing tbh.

[Unbelievable]

That may be so, but if so it will be in big part because of the opposition in the group. I mean, both World Cup finalists ffs. With opposition such as on show tonight or tomorrow we would walk the first round, and I seriously believe we have one of the best attacks in the competition. The defence is a concern though..

 

Scotland could claim the same thing tbh.

 

You have a fabulous sense of humour..

[James]

Even the attack.

 

Late 00s < Late 90s < Late 80s < Late 70s

 

Or at least that is what the Dutch experts are saying. Many blaming van Basten for destroying long established youth development systems.

 

Undoubtedly there are some good players, van der Vaart and an experienced van Nistelrooy would have made the 98 team a complete team for example, but the likes of Robben and van Persie are extremely overrated when compared to past Dutch greats.

[johnnypd]

Thanks for including Kluivert, Babel and Kuyt to help us bum you in the face with our argument.

 

Kluivert has a career before he came to Newcastle you know..? Babel has had as good a first season as could be expected from a youngster moving to a new league and adjusting his game and Kuyt is a regular in one of the top 4 and one off the most loved players at his clubs wherever he goes. I predict you will bring up his goalscoring record in the Premiership, but he has so many more strings to his bow.

 

Kuyt is rubbish. Nothing but a workhorse.

 

Van Persie and van Nistelrooy are the only strikers I can think of who've come over from the Dutch league and done the business.

 

there was this fella called bergkamp......

 

came here from Serie A

 

Right, that obviously disqualifies him as a player who came from a so called lesser footballing country and made a name for himself abroad..

 

go to bed.

 

Will do.. Doesn't change the fact that these arguments of people coming from the lesser footballing countries often being overrated (more so than players from England) or strikers coming from the Dutch league often failing to impress abroad are both nonsense..

 

not really. some strikers from the dutch league who score ridiculous amounts of goals come over here and find it hard to get goals. it does seem to be a very easy league in which to score. let's just say i hope we don't sign shota arveladze, robin nelisse and gerald sibon this summer.

 

as for the original point, wullie is spot on. you think the turkish fans who came on here when we played fener or when Tuncay was linked to us were being reasonable when they made posts like 'tuncay gonna rip you open, he's far too good for newcastle, if he leaves it will be to man utd or real madrid, one of europes best players etc etc'. we've had similar comments with Emre when he first arrived, and even WORSE when fatty Mido was linked to us. i'm not so sure there's english fans trawling the net telling overseas fans that James Milner and Marlon Harewood (comparable players to the ones mentioned) are off to Barca and AC MIlan and going to win the world cup for us.

[The College Dropout]

Even the attack.

 

Late 00s < Late 90s < Late 80s < Late 70s

 

Or at least that is what the Dutch experts are saying. Many blaming van Basten for destroying long established youth development systems.

 

Undoubtedly there are some good players, van der Vaart and an experienced van Nistelrooy would have made the 98 team a complete team for example, but the likes of Robben and van Persie are extremely overrated when compared to past Dutch greats.

 

I'd take Sneijder over Van der Vaart any day.

[Unbelievable]

Even the attack.

 

Late 00s < Late 90s < Late 80s < Late 70s

 

Or at least that is what the Dutch experts are saying. Many blaming van Basten for destroying long established youth development systems.

 

Undoubtedly there are some good players, van der Vaart and an experienced van Nistelrooy would have made the 98 team a complete team for example, but the likes of Robben and van Persie are extremely overrated when compared to past Dutch greats.

 

Which experts would those be?

 

Anyway, it's rubbish. We have never had a squad with this many young, technical football players. In fact, I'd say the weak link in our attacking play is Van Nistelrooij, and we would be better off playing with Huntelaar, as he is more technical as well. Sneijder, Van der Vaart, Robben, Van Persie and Huntelaar and one controlling midfield player and we would be unplayable for most defenses in this competition.

 

Our attackers in the 70's weren't that great; it was the midfielders who stood out, especially Cruyff and Van Hanegem.

 

The 80's were poor by all accounts, except for '88 and Van Basten, but you may be surprised Van Basten wasn't considered to be a first team player at the start of the competition.

 

The 90's were good, mainly because of Bergkamp, Van Basten (first half of the decade) and Kluivert (second half of the decade), but I do think we have some exceptional players at this point in time. Shame some are so injury prone, especially Robben and Van Persie..

[James]

Even the attack.

 

Late 00s < Late 90s < Late 80s < Late 70s

 

Or at least that is what the Dutch experts are saying. Many blaming van Basten for destroying long established youth development systems.

 

Undoubtedly there are some good players, van der Vaart and an experienced van Nistelrooy would have made the 98 team a complete team for example, but the likes of Robben and van Persie are extremely overrated when compared to past Dutch greats.

 

Which experts would those be?

 

Anyway, it's rubbish. We have never had a squad with this many young, technical football players. In fact, I'd say the weak link in our attacking play is Van Nistelrooij, and we would be better off playing with Huntelaar, as he is more technical as well. Sneijder, Van der Vaart, Robben, Van Persie and Huntelaar and one controlling midfield player and we would be unplayable for most defenses in this competition.

 

Our attackers in the 70's weren't that great; it was the midfielders who stood out, especially Cruyff and Van Hanegem.

 

The 80's were poor by all accounts, except for '88 and Van Basten, but you may be surprised Van Basten wasn't considered to be a first team player at the start of the competition.

 

The 90's were good, mainly because of Bergkamp, Van Basten (first half of the decade) and Kluivert (second half of the decade), but I do think we have some exceptional players at this point in time. Shame some are so injury prone, especially Robben and Van Persie..

 

Numerous elder statesmen in the Dutch game. Was in FourFourTwo.

[Unbelievable]

Thanks for including Kluivert, Babel and Kuyt to help us bum you in the face with our argument.

 

Kluivert has a career before he came to Newcastle you know..? Babel has had as good a first season as could be expected from a youngster moving to a new league and adjusting his game and Kuyt is a regular in one of the top 4 and one off the most loved players at his clubs wherever he goes. I predict you will bring up his goalscoring record in the Premiership, but he has so many more strings to his bow.

 

Kuyt is rubbish. Nothing but a workhorse.

 

Van Persie and van Nistelrooy are the only strikers I can think of who've come over from the Dutch league and done the business.

 

there was this fella called bergkamp......

 

came here from Serie A

 

Right, that obviously disqualifies him as a player who came from a so called lesser footballing country and made a name for himself abroad..

 

go to bed.

 

Will do.. Doesn't change the fact that these arguments of people coming from the lesser footballing countries often being overrated (more so than players from England) or strikers coming from the Dutch league often failing to impress abroad are both nonsense..

 

not really. some strikers from the dutch league who score ridiculous amounts of goals come over here and find it hard to get goals. it does seem to be a very easy league in which to score. let's just say i hope we don't sign shota arveladze, robin nelisse and gerald sibon this summer.

 

as for the original point, wullie is spot on. you think the turkish fans who came on here when we played fener or when Tuncay was linked to us were being reasonable when they made posts like 'tuncay gonna rip you open, he's far too good for newcastle, if he leaves it will be to man utd or real madrid, one of europes best players etc etc'. we've had similar comments with Emre when he first arrived, and even WORSE when fatty Mido was linked to us. i'm not so sure there's english fans trawling the net telling overseas fans that James Milner and Marlon Harewood (comparable players to the ones mentioned) are off to Barca and AC MIlan and going to win the world cup for us.

 

Robin Nelisse has never scored bucketloads and is mediocre, even in the Dutch league, Sibon is a fairly good player but has never been spectacular, and Arveladze was a very good player at that level. Apart from Sibon these players have never set foot in England afaik, so doesn't really answer my question. One player I can imagine you may refer to is Kezman and you would be right he has been dissapointing since he moved away from PSV. However, he is also disappointing in another "lesser league". However, I don't think you can dismiss that some of the best strikers in the world in the past decade(s) have come through the Dutch league (Ronaldo, Romario, Van Nistelrooij, Bergkamp) so I will keep dismissing the idea that players of other leagues are overrated more so than their English counterparts. If any, it's English players that are regularly overrated and more importantly overpriced.

[Unbelievable]

Even the attack.

 

Late 00s < Late 90s < Late 80s < Late 70s

 

Or at least that is what the Dutch experts are saying. Many blaming van Basten for destroying long established youth development systems.

 

Undoubtedly there are some good players, van der Vaart and an experienced van Nistelrooy would have made the 98 team a complete team for example, but the likes of Robben and van Persie are extremely overrated when compared to past Dutch greats.

 

Which experts would those be?

 

Anyway, it's rubbish. We have never had a squad with this many young, technical football players. In fact, I'd say the weak link in our attacking play is Van Nistelrooij, and we would be better off playing with Huntelaar, as he is more technical as well. Sneijder, Van der Vaart, Robben, Van Persie and Huntelaar and one controlling midfield player and we would be unplayable for most defenses in this competition.

 

Our attackers in the 70's weren't that great; it was the midfielders who stood out, especially Cruyff and Van Hanegem.

 

The 80's were poor by all accounts, except for '88 and Van Basten, but you may be surprised Van Basten wasn't considered to be a first team player at the start of the competition.

 

The 90's were good, mainly because of Bergkamp, Van Basten (first half of the decade) and Kluivert (second half of the decade), but I do think we have some exceptional players at this point in time. Shame some are so injury prone, especially Robben and Van Persie..

 

Numerous elder statesmen in the Dutch game. Was in FourFourTwo.

 

Oh right, some grey heads saying everything was better back then; I'm convinced.. The reality is that football has progressed a lot since then (especially physically), and most players from back then couldn't lace the shoes of many current players (if you put them in the team now the way they were then that is and obviously excluding a few exceptional players). Most players smoked in the 70´s for a start..

[Wullie]

Which English players are you talking about being overrated?

[KaKa]

What the heck is going on in here?

 

Sort it out fellas. This is getting silly now.

 

The dutch league is a good one and I would happily take numerous players from that league even now and the premiership is awesome too.

 

Problem solved now everyone sharrrrrrrrrrrrrap or start another thread for this nonsense. This is the Euro 2008 thread.

[Dave]

Just been talking to my pa. Reckons Emre 'didn't waste a pass' and was impressive. He's easily pleased.

 

Got yourself a job then? Nice one mate, sounds like a smart one too.

[Wullie]

Just been talking to my pa. Reckons Emre 'didn't waste a pass' and was impressive. He's easily pleased.

 

Got yourself a job then? Nice one mate, sounds like a smart one too.

 

I considered that gag too.

[Unbelievable]

Fine, I will shut up about it. Hoping for Croatia and Poland wins tomorrow..

[johnnypd]

Which English players are you talking about being overrated?

 

as i said earlier english players are overrated by the media and casual fans but those who know their football tend to do the opposite and over-criticise them 'terry is shite, totally out of his depth' ' lampard is fat & fucking woeful' and so on. im guilty of that myself. i also don't see english fans bigging up mediocre players like marlon harewood or darius vassel the same way egyptians blather on about mido, for one example.

[Keefaz]

Just been talking to my pa. Reckons Emre 'didn't waste a pass' and was impressive. He's easily pleased.

 

Got yourself a job then? Nice one mate, sounds like a smart one too.

 

I considered that gag too.

 

Took me a while to get it, tbh.

[johnnypd]

Just been talking to my pa. Reckons Emre 'didn't waste a pass' and was impressive. He's easily pleased.

 

Got yourself a job then? Nice one mate, sounds like a smart one too.

 

I considered that gag too.

 

Took me a while to get it, tbh.

 

i thought you meant p.a. the first time i read it then realised youre not chez

[Unbelievable]

Which English players are you talking about being overrated?

 

as i said earlier english players are overrated by the media and casual fans but those who know their football tend to do the opposite and over-criticise them 'terry is s****, totally out of his depth' ' lampard is fat & f***ing woeful' and so on. im guilty of that myself. i also don't see english fans bigging up mediocre players like marlon harewood or darius vassel the same way egyptians blather on about mido, for one example.

 

When you look at player valuations, asking prices and transfer fees it's not difficult to see why English players are (quite literally) overrated. Except for the very best English players it is quite easy to find a cheaper and better alternative abroad. What you're referring to is how players are rated subjectively. In the subjective sense players tend to be either bigged up or slagged down in a very black and white way, just like C. Ronaldo is now. He was shit before, practically enemy of the state, now everybody seems to want to make babies with him..

[WarrenBartonCentrePartin]

Roll on Germany vs. Poland later.  I'm going over to my mates place to watch it.  He lives next to a house full of Polish builders (at least 10, maybe 15 in a 4 bed house).  They've been complete cunts for the past 8 months, shouting, making loud noises, and more often than not blasting Polish europop 24/7 (even putting the speaker next to the window).  However we're interested to see if they get all jeered up for the game tonight.  If Germany score we're going to go absolutely mental just to get our own back.

[colinmk]

Just switched on the re-run of the Portugal game on ITV4, fucking Clive Tidsley! Could they of actually picked a more annoying voice as a commentator? And David Pleat to add his expert views. Deary me.

[Optimistic Nut]

Was impressed with Nuno Gomes last night actually. I thought he would be their weak link, and the reason they wouldn't win the tournament, but he looked a threat and was unlucky twice last night. If he can put in a few more performances like that in, then Portugal could win it.

[Wullie]

Roll on Germany vs. Poland later.  I'm going over to my mates place to watch it.  He lives next to a house full of Polish builders (at least 10, maybe 15 in a 4 bed house).  They've been complete cunts for the past 8 months, shouting, making loud noises, and more often than not blasting Polish europop 24/7 (even putting the speaker next to the window).  However we're interested to see if they get all jeered up for the game tonight.  If Germany score we're going to go absolutely mental just to get our own back.

 

[NE5]

as I was away all day, what were they like and did the 2 teams that won deserve to win ?