KK resigns - see OP for new club statement issued September 6th

[Raconteur]

You've almost got it figured out Raconteur, and you make some very valid points, but the word in bold is what this entire episode possibly revolves around.  In the initial statements they quite clearly indicate that Wise is there to help to and report to KK; a chain of command is set, but it is the reverse of what you are implying here. In the end KK must have felt that his "assistent chef" was suddenly telling the "head chef" which ingredients to use in which quantities, and I'm pretty certain this was not how they set it out to be. Which begs the questions, who instigated the shifting of the goal posts, and who sanctioned it?

 

This is where we are hamstrung by a lack of information which can only be filled with conjecture. I have my theories which I am certain would be very different from yours, and but at this point it becomes a metaphysical debate.

 

You're right when you say it all comes down to what Keegan was told at the job interview - and I repeat that as the "structure" wasn't fully in place then nothing could have been set in concrete when KK signed. But I disagree that the manager-director role would ever have had Keegan on top - the "initial statements" from Wise stand up to scrutiny if you:

 

a) credit Wise with the likes of Tozer, Kadar, Zamblera, Soderbergh, Ranger (at least one of those was before Wise, but my point remains) as well as Academy Director Richard Money.

 

b) Point the finger of blame for Milner/Barton/Smith/Xisco/Gonzalez at Jimenez and Llambias rather than Wise.

 

So it could be said that Wise is doing a wonderful job as Executive Director (Football)

 

[NE5]

Just answer the question;- WOULD WENGER OR FERGUSON HAVE ACCEPTED THE TRANSFER POLICY, YES OR NO ?

There are far too many fans on here who think that by appointing a 'Foreign' manager, everything will be OK -

Interesting that some Bookies are now making KKs REPLACEMENT only 16/1 for being the NEXT Prem manager to be fired/leave..

 

 

systems, systems, systems.

 

At the end of the day, whether or not a club wants to have a DOF [ie a glorified head scout and a job that someone like Arthur Cox could have done perfectly well] or not, a manager has the right, [and in any club at all that wishes to be a professionally organised club], to choose the people he wants to work with and do his scouting for him.

 

 

[Wullie]

Just answer the question;- WOULD WENGER OR FERGUSON HAVE ACCEPTED THE TRANSFER POLICY, YES OR NO ?

There are far too many fans on here who think that by appointing a 'Foreign' manager, everything will be OK -

Interesting that some Bookies are now making KKs REPLACEMENT only 16/1 for being the NEXT Prem manager to be fired/leave..

 

 

systems, systems, systems.

 

At the end of the day, whether or not a club wants to have a DOF [ie a glorified head scout and a job that someone like Arthur Cox could have done perfectly well] or not, a manager has the right, [and in any club at all that wishes to be a professionally organised club], to choose the people he wants to work with and do his scouting for him.

 

Ooh Leazes, it's good to be back on the same side, it's almost like having Souness back.

 

 

[Skeletor]

Just answer the question;- WOULD WENGER OR FERGUSON HAVE ACCEPTED THE TRANSFER POLICY, YES OR NO ?

There are far too many fans on here who think that by appointing a 'Foreign' manager, everything will be OK -

Interesting that some Bookies are now making KKs REPLACEMENT only 16/1 for being the NEXT Prem manager to be fired/leave..

 

 

systems, systems, systems.

 

At the end of the day, whether or not a club wants to have a DOF [ie a glorified head scout and a job that someone like Arthur Cox could have done perfectly well] or not, a manager has the right, [and in any club at all that wishes to be a professionally organised club], to choose the people he wants to work with and do his scouting for him.

 

Ooh Leazes, it's good to be back on the same side, it's almost like having Souness back.

 

 

 

In some ways I miss the last few months of the Souness era. It's the only time that all the fans and local media were united .

[sugoinufc]

 

Where has it come out that KK wanted Lampard, Beckham etc?

 

 

 

read it 2 different places...but the sources could definitely be questioned

 

....but if (as i wrote earlier) this where his 3 of his main targets i doubt he is the right man for the job!

[Ember]

 

Where has it come out that KK wanted Lampard, Beckham etc?

 

 

read it 2 different places...but the sources could definitely be questioned

 

....but if (as i wrote earlier) this where his 3 of his main targets i doubt he is the right man for the job!

 

Arguably, yes, they're past it, but still brilliant players. The damage that Lampard could have done for us against other clubs along with Henry and Beckham is insane and makes me dribble just thinking about it.

[Unbelievable]

Don't know if this is for real, but a poster on TT has apparently emailed Chris Mort about this shambles and actually got a reply:

 

QUOTE(Stevie @ Sep 7 2008, 11:32 AM) *

QUOTE(Ally @ Sep 7 2008, 11:27 AM) *

QUOTE(Stevie @ Sep 7 2008, 10:41 AM) *

I got a reply from Mort.

 

QUOTE

RE: ‏

From: [email protected]

Sent: Fri 9/05/08 9:05 AM

To: [email protected]

 

Thanks Steve

 

Having brought KK back to NUFC, I am obviously very disappointed with recent developments. I have not had an involvement with NUFC or individuals there since early June and do not expect to have a role influencing where things go from here.

 

Regards

 

Chris

 

Can't blame him for wanting fuck all to do with it.

 

 

He seems a top bloke tbh. What did you send him?

 

QUOTE

Hi Chris,

 

I know you are a busy man so I won't take up too much of your time.

 

I'm saddened by the fact you left your position at NUFC, the reason I am is because you are probably the best chairman we've had. You communicated with the fans, didn't tell us any lies, and made sure our thoughts and opinions were noted and acted upon.

 

This new bloke Llambias, is the complete opposite, I don't think I've ever heard his voice, he's clearly not up to it, and this crisis this week, would never have happened had you still been here. It must be boring as fuck being a solicitor compared to the ups and downs as chairman at one of the biggest football clubs in Europe, so I think you should consider coming back, you are very popular on Tyneside, more so than Mr Ashley, and we feel you could steady the ship.

 

Regards

 

Steve

[Tooj]

Stevie.

[colinmk]

Don't know if this is for real, but a poster on TT has apparently emailed Chris Mort about this shambles and actually got a reply:

 

QUOTE(Stevie @ Sep 7 2008, 11:32 AM) *

QUOTE(Ally @ Sep 7 2008, 11:27 AM) *

QUOTE(Stevie @ Sep 7 2008, 10:41 AM) *

I got a reply from Mort.

 

QUOTE

RE: ‏

From: [email protected]

Sent: Fri 9/05/08 9:05 AM

To: [email protected]

 

Thanks Steve

 

Having brought KK back to NUFC, I am obviously very disappointed with recent developments. I have not had an involvement with NUFC or individuals there since early June and do not expect to have a role influencing where things go from here.

 

Regards

 

Chris

 

Can't blame him for wanting fuck all to do with it.

 

 

He seems a top bloke tbh. What did you send him?

 

QUOTE

Hi Chris,

 

I know you are a busy man so I won't take up too much of your time.

 

I'm saddened by the fact you left your position at NUFC, the reason I am is because you are probably the best chairman we've had. You communicated with the fans, didn't tell us any lies, and made sure our thoughts and opinions were noted and acted upon.

 

This new bloke Llambias, is the complete opposite, I don't think I've ever heard his voice, he's clearly not up to it, and this crisis this week, would never have happened had you still been here. It must be boring as fuck being a solicitor compared to the ups and downs as chairman at one of the biggest football clubs in Europe, so I think you should consider coming back, you are very popular on Tyneside, more so than Mr Ashley, and we feel you could steady the ship.

 

Regards

 

Steve

 

quality.

[NE5]

Just answer the question;- WOULD WENGER OR FERGUSON HAVE ACCEPTED THE TRANSFER POLICY, YES OR NO ?

There are far too many fans on here who think that by appointing a 'Foreign' manager, everything will be OK -

Interesting that some Bookies are now making KKs REPLACEMENT only 16/1 for being the NEXT Prem manager to be fired/leave..

 

 

systems, systems, systems.

 

At the end of the day, whether or not a club wants to have a DOF [ie a glorified head scout and a job that someone like Arthur Cox could have done perfectly well] or not, a manager has the right, [and in any club at all that wishes to be a professionally organised club], to choose the people he wants to work with and do his scouting for him.

 

Ooh Leazes, it's good to be back on the same side, it's almost like having Souness back.

 

 

 

[Mr Logic]

The statement said: "NUFC wished, at all times, to keep any dispute that it had with Kevin Keegan private..

 

"It is therefore disappointing that information has reached the media through unnamed sources and a briefing has been given by the League Managers Association that could give rise to a misleading impression amongst the club's fans"Newcastle United have no desire to engage in a war of words, but inaccurate reporting of factual matters and inaccurate allegations have to be corrected.

 

"It is a fact that Kevin Keegan, on appointment on January 16, 2008, agreed to report to a director of football and to the board.

 

"It is a fact that Kevin Keegan worked within that structure from January 16, 2008 until his resignation.

 

"It is a fact that Kevin Keegan, as manager, had specific duties in that he was responsible for the training, coaching, selection and motivation of the team.

 

"It is a fact that Kevin Keegan was allowed to manage his specific duties without any interference from any board member.

 

"It is a fact that Kevin Keegan agreed only to deal with the media in relation to club matters relating to the team and not to communicate with the media in relation to the acquisition or disposal of players.

 

"It is a fact that NUFC is a business and operates, like all businesses, with financial constraints.

 

"It is a fact that NUFC's financial constraints inform its transfer dealings.

 

"The board of NUFC have responsibility to ensure that the club is able to meet its commitments, which include the wages and the transfer fees for players.

 

"The structure at NUFC is clear, and has been clear from January 16, 2008."

 

This is an awful release from the club, the whole thing stinks of defensiveness and blame avoidance. (The bit in bold seems to be suggesting Keegan had nothing to do with transfers (ie. identification of targets) in his job remit, which dozens of other statements from club representatives over the last 6 months have all said the opposite.) They're digging their grave deeper, incredible decision to release such a statement.

 

Hoping that he sells now to this Indian group, Keegan backed into 14-1 to be next Newcastle manager, (heard on radio).

[GM]

"It must be boring as fuck being a solicitor compared to the ups and downs as chairman at one of the biggest football clubs in Europe, so I think you should consider coming back,"

 

Classic line.

 

I can guarantee that will have been forwarded on to others for a good chuckle.

[Ember]

It must be boring as f*** being a solicitor compared to the ups and downs as chairman at one of the biggest football clubs in Europe, so I think you should consider coming back, you are very popular on Tyneside, more so than Mr Ashley, and we feel you could steady the ship.

 

Regards

 

Steve

[Parky]

Don't know if this is for real, but a poster on TT has apparently emailed Chris Mort about this shambles and actually got a reply:

 

QUOTE(Stevie @ Sep 7 2008, 11:32 AM) *

QUOTE(Ally @ Sep 7 2008, 11:27 AM) *

QUOTE(Stevie @ Sep 7 2008, 10:41 AM) *

I got a reply from Mort.

 

QUOTE

RE: ‏

From: [email protected]

Sent: Fri 9/05/08 9:05 AM

To: [email protected]

 

Thanks Steve

 

Having brought KK back to NUFC, I am obviously very disappointed with recent developments. I have not had an involvement with NUFC or individuals there since early June and do not expect to have a role influencing where things go from here.

 

Regards

 

Chris

 

Can't blame him for wanting fuck all to do with it.

 

 

He seems a top bloke tbh. What did you send him?

 

QUOTE

Hi Chris,

 

I know you are a busy man so I won't take up too much of your time.

 

I'm saddened by the fact you left your position at NUFC, the reason I am is because you are probably the best chairman we've had. You communicated with the fans, didn't tell us any lies, and made sure our thoughts and opinions were noted and acted upon.

 

This new bloke Llambias, is the complete opposite, I don't think I've ever heard his voice, he's clearly not up to it, and this crisis this week, would never have happened had you still been here. It must be boring as fuck being a solicitor compared to the ups and downs as chairman at one of the biggest football clubs in Europe, so I think you should consider coming back, you are very popular on Tyneside, more so than Mr Ashley, and we feel you could steady the ship.

 

Regards

 

Steve

 

quality.

 

Class.

[Mick]

 

I think it's obvious the "rules" by which the club moved forward changed - in a reactionary manner too. For starters Keegan was hired knowing he'd be working under a DoF, but that person had not yet been appointed*. Just that simple fact effects the whole paradigm, from the very off. Indeed, the changeover from Mort to Llambias involved another significant shift given the (reportedly) sharply contrasting personalities

 

One snippet barely touched on in this gargantuan thread is the "showdown" talks in May. Even if you think Keegan agreed to any terms just to get the job, and planned to do his own thing once he had it, then the "showdown" talks would have reminded him very clearly what the rules were - and there is also scope in that conversation to say "Well, this facet isn't working and needs to be addressed". I remember thinking at the time there was no real danger of KK leaving then, that it was all a media beat-up. Well, in hindsight, it probably wasn't, which begs the question: Would it have been better for Keegan (and the club) to have left then?

 

Do Keegan's knights have a rebuttal for the claim that KK refused to work co-operatively with the acquisition team? Consider the Smith and Barton rumours - Keegan apparently (reluctantly) said they could be sold if they were replaced, but claimed Xisco and Gonzalez were not adequate replacements. To me, that demonstrates the acquisition team trying to accomodate Keegan who in return offered only intrastringence, recalcitrance and pure pig-headedness.

 

* The club's statement says that Kevin knew he would be working under a director of football - but NUFC doesn't have one! We have a Vice-President (Player Recruitment) and an Executive Director (Football) - the ambiguity of the titles is clearly intentional (ie they went to the effort of inventing titles!) But the very names point more towards Jimenez rather than Wise as the "underminer"

 

You're wrong about Keegan being appointed to work under a director of football.  The Chairman at the time of both appointments made that clear, Keegan made that clear and Wise made that clear.

[Guest rocky]

I would like Terry Mac to tell us what he thinks of all this.

He must know what has been going on.

 

He could resign and tell all.

Or tell all and face the consequences.

 

Even he wont want to work for Ashley and his chums under these conditions, if he loves the club like we do it may be time for him to speak out.

[Dave]

What I just can't work out is what the club are wanting us to believe.

 

If we as fans accept that all those FACTS are indeed correct, and have been from day one until now; that everyone did their job exactly as advertised, if everything related to the system was going smoothly - why did Keegan resign? We had a relatively good start to the season, with the new players looking promising. We have played good football, progressed in our only cup game, and are coming up to a run of winnable games.

 

So why would Keegan walk out?

[colinmk]

I would like Terry Mac to tell us what he thinks of all this.

He must know what has been going on.

 

He could resign and tell all.

Or tell all and face the consequences.

 

Even he wont want to work for Ashley and his chums under these conditions, if he loves the club like we do it may be time for him to speak out.

 

I'm sure he's got mouths to feed like everyone else.

[TRon]

What I just can't work out is what the club are wanting us to believe.

 

If we as fans accept that all those FACTS are indeed correct, and have been from day one until now; that everyone did their job exactly as advertised, if everything related to the system was going smoothly - why did Keegan resign? We had a relatively good start to the season, with the new players looking promising. We have played good football, progressed in our only cup game, and are coming up to a run of winnable games.

 

So why would Keegan walk out?

 

I have a feeling that had KK's transfer targets been of the right type (e.g. Modric rather than Beckham), the board would have made more serious efforts to pursue them. Reading between the lines, they weren't impressed with his suggestions, went their own way, and KK feeling under-mined, quit.

 

in a nutshell, although this is just opinion like most of the stuff here.

[colinmk]

What I just can't work out is what the club are wanting us to believe.

 

If we as fans accept that all those FACTS are indeed correct, and have been from day one until now; that everyone did their job exactly as advertised, if everything related to the system was going smoothly - why did Keegan resign? We had a relatively good start to the season, with the new players looking promising. We have played good football, progressed in our only cup game, and are coming up to a run of winnable games.

 

So why would Keegan walk out?

 

I have a feeling that had KK's transfer targets been of the right type (e.g. Modric rather than Beckham), the board would have made more serious efforts to pursue them. Reading between the lines, they weren't impressed with his suggestions, went their own way, and KK feeling under-mined, quit.

 

in a nutshell, although this is just opinion like most of the stuff here.

 

Do you actually think KK gave them that so called list? The man isn't tuned to the moon ffs. Why would he of thought they would join us at this point in time?

[TRon]

What I just can't work out is what the club are wanting us to believe.

 

If we as fans accept that all those FACTS are indeed correct, and have been from day one until now; that everyone did their job exactly as advertised, if everything related to the system was going smoothly - why did Keegan resign? We had a relatively good start to the season, with the new players looking promising. We have played good football, progressed in our only cup game, and are coming up to a run of winnable games.

 

So why would Keegan walk out?

 

I have a feeling that had KK's transfer targets been of the right type (e.g. Modric rather than Beckham), the board would have made more serious efforts to pursue them. Reading between the lines, they weren't impressed with his suggestions, went their own way, and KK feeling under-mined, quit.

 

in a nutshell, although this is just opinion like most of the stuff here.

 

Do you actually think KK gave them that so called list? The man isn't tuned to the moon ffs. Why would he of thought they would join us at this point in time?

 

Yes I do. I've been through all of KK's time here from a player through to both stints as manager. It sounds very much like a Keegan list, whether it's true or not.

[Carlito]

What I just can't work out is what the club are wanting us to believe.

 

If we as fans accept that all those FACTS are indeed correct, and have been from day one until now; that everyone did their job exactly as advertised, if everything related to the system was going smoothly - why did Keegan resign? We had a relatively good start to the season, with the new players looking promising. We have played good football, progressed in our only cup game, and are coming up to a run of winnable games.

 

So why would Keegan walk out?

 

I have a feeling that had KK's transfer targets been of the right type (e.g. Modric rather than Beckham), the board would have made more serious efforts to pursue them. Reading between the lines, they weren't impressed with his suggestions, went their own way, and KK feeling under-mined, quit.

 

in a nutshell, although this is just opinion like most of the stuff here.

 

If it's true that the likes of Modric and Woodgate came here for talks though, then maybe they weren't impressed with those and brought their own targets in over his head. I don't believe for a second that Keegan was targetting the likes of Beckham and Lampard, or Henry. I think they've just taken that radio interview from ages ago where the media spun it, and have used it as ammunition against him to clear their names.

[Unbelievable]

Keegan sets sights on Henry

Magpies boss thinking big for future

 

Last updated: 8th February 2008

 

Kevin Keegan hopes Newcastle United can strike 'lucky' and bring Thierry Henry back to the Premier League.

 

Henry left Arsenal for Barcelona last summer, but has yet to recapture the form which saw him become the English game's finest player.

 

And Keegan, who was no stranger to major signings during his first spell as Newcastle boss, would relish the opportunity to sign the French striker.

 

"I would like to fetch Thierry Henry back to England," Keegan told Radio Newcastle. "He's the best player I've seen in the Premiership.

Incredible

 

"When you're pitch-side, what I've seen him do to good players has been incredible.

 

"Sometimes you can take advantage of a situation and get what I call lucky."

 

During his previous tenure, Keegan spent a then world record fee of £15million on Alan Shearer and he would have no qualms in setting a new landmark.

 

He added: "I'd like to do what we did last time and surprise people. It would be nice to break a world record.

 

"Why rule it out? I'd like to bring players here that amaze people and we stop just talking about being a big club - but, with our actions, we show that we are.

 

Flying

 

"Sometimes people limit themselves by saying, 'we can't do that'. You say 'why not?' and they don't give you an answer.

 

"If we can get this club going in the right direction we have the owner who will find us the money for these players. You start by building up trust with the people who provide the finance that you can find these players at the right price. It's easy to get players to a club once it's flying in the right direction."

 

Keegan also suggested circumstances are different at St James' Park compared to 11 years ago when he quit as manager.

 

"I was here five years, but the club was being floated, people were being discarded," he continued. "I worked to build the club up, but at the time loads of promises were not kept, and priorities changed, so I got out."

 

Source: http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11661_3119637,00.html

[Syrette]

Keegan also suggested circumstances are different at St James' Park compared to 11 years ago when he quit as manager.

 

"I was here five years, but the club was being floated, people were being discarded," he continued. "I worked to build the club up, but at the time loads of promises were not kept, and priorities changed, so I got out."

 

 

[Dave]

Load of bollocks - that was based on the question 'If you could sign anyone in the world who would it be?'.