Guest Rainforest Posted September 7, 2011 Share Posted September 7, 2011 Even giving him the benefit of a transition period it must be quite worrying for them as I can't recall a good game he's played for the dippers whereas I can't recall him having a bad one for us. Wouldn't write him off yet but that fee is starting to look even more ridiculous than it did in January. tbf he played well against City where he got his 2 league goals, just doesn't fit into what Dalglish is trying to do at Liverpool and reeks of panic signing There's a bit of a flavour-of-the-month feel to a few of Liverpool's signings. Carroll, Henderson, and Adam were getting a lot of media attention last season. This defender Coates apparently had a very good Copa America and you have to wonder whether he's been signed on the strength of that. Jose was a bargain at £5m, but tbh I don't think he's quite as good as his media profile suggested last season. They hit on a gem in Suarez, and he's improved them no end though. It's got a bit more substance to it than that. Downing, Henderson and Adam were all in the top 10 chance creators in the premier league last year. Coates was being scouted long before the Copa. hmmm.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cubaricho Posted September 7, 2011 Share Posted September 7, 2011 Some people here really need to watch our season review! Carroll was utterly class for us & he's not as utterly incapable of ''proper football'' as many on here suggest. Regardless of how his move at Liverpool works out, Carroll was utterly class for us and that's where the price tag came from. In addition to this I don't think Carroll will ever play for Newcastle again - especially while the fat man is in charge! It's not as much about what he's capable of, it has more to do with the type of passes the team around him does when he's on the pitch. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest PhilB Posted September 7, 2011 Share Posted September 7, 2011 hmmm.. http://basstunedtored.files.wordpress.com/2011/06/top-15-chance-creators.jpg?w=441&h=330 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShearMagic Posted September 7, 2011 Share Posted September 7, 2011 People need to let it go. He's gone, we got an extremely good price for the type of footballer that he is, and he'll never live up to his price tag. His obvious strength is his ability to bully defenders and obviously in the air, he's never been particularly good at holding the ball up (about the only thing that Ameobi was consistently better than him at), and with the system that Liverpool are playing (which is a very good one), he will never fit in, simply because he doesn't have the capability to play a quick pass and then move into an attacking position quickly. I hope he likes the bench, because he's going to have to get very used to being an impact sub to come on and change games when Liverpool's style isn't working. With his attitude and his drinking habits (which I can't see changing), unfortunately he's never going to reach his potential - especially at Liverpool. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Consortium of one Posted September 7, 2011 Share Posted September 7, 2011 The Red Sox front office is one of the most sophisticated in it's use of statistics to evaluate talent so it would not be a surprise of John Henry would want a statistics driven approach for his football club as well. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted September 7, 2011 Share Posted September 7, 2011 People need to let it go. He's gone, we got an extremely good price for the type of footballer that he is, and he'll never live up to his price tag. His obvious strength is his ability to bully defenders and obviously in the air, he's never been particularly good at holding the ball up (about the only thing that Ameobi was consistently better than him at), and with the system that Liverpool are playing (which is a very good one), he will never fit in, simply because he doesn't have the capability to play a quick pass and then move into an attacking position quickly. I hope he likes the bench, because he's going to have to get very used to being an impact sub to come on and change games when Liverpool's style isn't working. With his attitude and his drinking habits (which I can't see changing), unfortunately he's never going to reach his potential - especially at Liverpool. Pretty ironic saying people need to let it go when you sound pretty bitter there. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbandit Posted September 7, 2011 Share Posted September 7, 2011 He's a great player, fantastic hungry attitude on the pitch. Will be a massive striker in the PL for the next decade, can't say how successful he'll be at Liverpool but the lad is incredible in the air, brilliant on his left foot and will get better and better. There's a lot of bullshit being spoken, he's a quality player and will make me feel sick with some of his performances for other team(s) over the next few years Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShearMagic Posted September 7, 2011 Share Posted September 7, 2011 People need to let it go. He's gone, we got an extremely good price for the type of footballer that he is, and he'll never live up to his price tag. His obvious strength is his ability to bully defenders and obviously in the air, he's never been particularly good at holding the ball up (about the only thing that Ameobi was consistently better than him at), and with the system that Liverpool are playing (which is a very good one), he will never fit in, simply because he doesn't have the capability to play a quick pass and then move into an attacking position quickly. I hope he likes the bench, because he's going to have to get very used to being an impact sub to come on and change games when Liverpool's style isn't working. With his attitude and his drinking habits (which I can't see changing), unfortunately he's never going to reach his potential - especially at Liverpool. Pretty ironic saying people need to let it go when you sound pretty bitter there. That wasn't how it was meant to come across, so apologies if that's how you read it. Simply saying he's not in Liverpool's best 11, can see why they signed him but I think they'd be regretting it now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShearMagic Posted September 7, 2011 Share Posted September 7, 2011 He's a great player, fantastic hungry attitude on the pitch. Will be a massive striker in the PL for the next decade, can't say how successful he'll be at Liverpool but the lad is incredible in the air, brilliant on his left foot and will get better and better. There's a lot of bullshit being spoken, he's a quality player and will make me feel sick with some of his performances for other team(s) over the next few years What exactly is this based on? 6 decent months? Not arguing with what you've said, but you've said it as if it's going to be fact. He has a lot of work to do. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbandit Posted September 7, 2011 Share Posted September 7, 2011 He's a great player, fantastic hungry attitude on the pitch. Will be a massive striker in the PL for the next decade, can't say how successful he'll be at Liverpool but the lad is incredible in the air, brilliant on his left foot and will get better and better. There's a lot of bullshit being spoken, he's a quality player and will make me feel sick with some of his performances for other team(s) over the next few years What exactly is this based on? 6 decent months? Not arguing with what you've said, but you've said it as if it's going to be fact. He has a lot of work to do. Would you say Sturridge was a great player on his six months or less at Bolton? I rate Carroll on his performances in our 2010/11 season and our 2009/10 season. I followed him a bit before that but what mainly makes me think he's going to be around as a top striker for the next decade is the way he influenced games so directly for us. There was all this shit in the newspapers all the time about him and yet he'd come onto the pitch for us and just drag us through games no matter what. He had that way of scoring which only happens for players who want it enough, like Cahill has done in the past for Everton, Gerrard for Liverpool and Shearer for us. I really believe (and yes, there's not years of evidence to back this up) that he'll score a bucketload of PL goals Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted September 7, 2011 Share Posted September 7, 2011 I don't really care how he gets on for Liverpool, how he fits into their system or whether he eventually justifies the price tag they paid or not, tbh. He was fantastic for us and we shouldn't have sold him at any price, that's been my stance from the beginning - romantic or otherwise. Other than a general dislike of Liverpool (which I admit I do go along with) I think it's a bit sad to almost hope he fails there. HAHAHA, we got £35m for him! Well so fucking what, nobody will convince me we've done a single thing so far we couldn't have afforded without selling him, and if we still had him we'd be a hell of a lot stronger. The end. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zero Posted September 7, 2011 Share Posted September 7, 2011 Positioning and game reading actually requires both intelligence and experience. Carroll is not well-trained in these aspects and that's why he is unable to contribute much during open play. We get the best out of him by mainly focusing on developing his physique and set-piece tactics, and now his weaknesses are fully exposed at Liverpool. It is our tactics that make him so unbeatable during last season but, is that the tactics we should continue to use or Liverpool and England should follow? A definite no for me. Carroll is in deep trouble because he needs lots of games to iron out his mental aspects but he won't be getting much time in Liverpool, which are targeting a top 4 finish this season. Could Liverpool and the fans be patient enough to train him up like a youth prospect again for 2-3 years? Nah... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Haris Vuckic Posted September 7, 2011 Share Posted September 7, 2011 Mike Ashley got £35m for him, fans of Newcastle United got nothing I suppose. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alberto2005 Posted September 7, 2011 Share Posted September 7, 2011 I don't really care how he gets on for Liverpool, how he fits into their system or whether he eventually justifies the price tag they paid or not, tbh. He was fantastic for us and we shouldn't have sold him at any price, that's been my stance from the beginning - romantic or otherwise. Other than a general dislike of Liverpool (which I admit I do go along with) I think it's a bit sad to almost hope he fails there. HAHAHA, we got £35m for him! Well so fucking what, nobody will convince me we've done a single thing so far we couldn't have afforded without selling him, and if we still had him we'd be a hell of a lot stronger. The end. If going to reinvest = sell him the price is ridiculous If not = No way Conclusion = We've got a cunt of an owner. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cubaricho Posted September 8, 2011 Share Posted September 8, 2011 35m closer to Ashley selling up. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted September 8, 2011 Share Posted September 8, 2011 People need to let it go. He's gone, we got an extremely good price for the type of footballer that he is, and he'll never live up to his price tag. His obvious strength is his ability to bully defenders and obviously in the air, he's never been particularly good at holding the ball up (about the only thing that Ameobi was consistently better than him at), and with the system that Liverpool are playing (which is a very good one), he will never fit in, simply because he doesn't have the capability to play a quick pass and then move into an attacking position quickly. I hope he likes the bench, because he's going to have to get very used to being an impact sub to come on and change games when Liverpool's style isn't working. With his attitude and his drinking habits (which I can't see changing), unfortunately he's never going to reach his potential - especially at Liverpool. Pretty ironic saying people need to let it go when you sound pretty bitter there. What's bitter about it? It seems to be far more based on reason than championing Barton's value based on his now legendary twitter crap. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teasy Posted September 8, 2011 Share Posted September 8, 2011 http://basstunedtored.files.wordpress.com/2011/06/top-15-chance-creators.jpg?w=441&h=330 Where are those stats from? It'd be interesting to see what they consider a chance considering Henderson isn't even in the top 40 for assists for the same season (he's joint 47th-59th. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmojorisin75 Posted September 8, 2011 Share Posted September 8, 2011 Wow. The Carroll revisionism is in full effect Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpal78 Posted September 8, 2011 Share Posted September 8, 2011 I don't really care how he gets on for Liverpool, how he fits into their system or whether he eventually justifies the price tag they paid or not, tbh. He was fantastic for us and we shouldn't have sold him at any price, that's been my stance from the beginning - romantic or otherwise. Other than a general dislike of Liverpool (which I admit I do go along with) I think it's a bit sad to almost hope he fails there. HAHAHA, we got £35m for him! Well so f***ing what, nobody will convince me we've done a single thing so far we couldn't have afforded without selling him, and if we still had him we'd be a hell of a lot stronger. The end. Who is "hoping that he fails at Liverpool?" I think what some are saying is that he is not as good as others make him out to be and he did well for us because we played in a way that magnified his strengths and hid his weaknesses. Since Liverpool is unlikely to play in similar fashion, he will likely fail there and won't live up to his 35M tag. I'll go out on a limb and say that he won't score more than 12 premier league goals for Liverpool and if he does, then I'll put my hands up and admit that I was wrong. How many goals do you think he will score? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShearMagic Posted September 8, 2011 Share Posted September 8, 2011 I don't really care how he gets on for Liverpool, how he fits into their system or whether he eventually justifies the price tag they paid or not, tbh. He was fantastic for us and we shouldn't have sold him at any price, that's been my stance from the beginning - romantic or otherwise. Other than a general dislike of Liverpool (which I admit I do go along with) I think it's a bit sad to almost hope he fails there. HAHAHA, we got £35m for him! Well so f***ing what, nobody will convince me we've done a single thing so far we couldn't have afforded without selling him, and if we still had him we'd be a hell of a lot stronger. The end. Who is "hoping that he fails at Liverpool?" I think what some are saying is that he is not as good as others make him out to be and he did well for us because we played in a way that magnified his strengths and hid his weaknesses. Since Liverpool is unlikely to play in similar fashion, he will likely fail there and won't live up to his 35M tag. I'll go out on a limb and say that he won't score more than 12 premier league goals for Liverpool and if he does, then I'll put my hands up and admit that I was wrong. How many goals do you think he will score? I said 10-15 at the start of the season so I'll stick with that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 8, 2011 Share Posted September 8, 2011 12-15 goals is what the main centre forward at any Premier League club should be looking at, nevermind a £35m one. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest PhilB Posted September 8, 2011 Share Posted September 8, 2011 http://basstunedtored.files.wordpress.com/2011/06/top-15-chance-creators.jpg?w=441&h=330 Where are those stats from? It'd be interesting to see what they consider a chance considering Henderson isn't even in the top 40 for assists for the same season (he's joint 47th-59th. It's from a blog which I presume is using Opta stats because I've read the same stats in newspaper articles. It was written before we signed Enrique. http://basstunedtored.com/2011/06/06/liverpool-should-take-a-chance-on/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ocho Posted September 8, 2011 Share Posted September 8, 2011 Where are those stats from? It'd be interesting to see what they consider a chance considering Henderson isn't even in the top 40 for assists for the same season (he's joint 47th-59th. From Opta: Key Pass The final pass or pass-cum-shot leading to the recipient of the ball having an attempt at goal without scoring. Chances Created Assists plus Key passes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dokko Posted September 8, 2011 Share Posted September 8, 2011 They'll be lucky to get a £20m striker out of him, we'd have been lucky to get that also, only he'd have stood a better chance up here as we'd not drop him, stick by him, and love him regardless. Its already a 50-50 split opinion on him in Liverpool and it could get worse. When Dogleash is looking for big results to secure 4th spot he won't be given time to Carroll to get up to speed, find his feet, his confidence etc...he'll play with the effective Kuyt and the highly talented Suarez to secure the win. If this goes on; how he reacts now and how the club support him are going to not only define his season, but his Liverpool career. If he gets unhappy, lonely, and regretting his decision to move while sitting on the bench he'll go off the rails in his private life and with half a city glad to wind him up it will only be a matter of time till another headline splashes the front and back pages. The one thing I will say is that it hasn't come to that, dropped temporarily by England and Liverpool, we need to see if this develops further, or if Dogleash has a plan for the XI which includes Carroll, or whether he was a panic buy on the last day and having seen him in training isn't the player he thought he was when he sanctioned such a fee for the big man. I don't see Liverpool playing a passing game btw, in fact its as haphazard as ours, depending who is on the pitch dictates the way they play. Imo i don't think Dogleash has put that much thought in to it and could be Carroll's saving grace. When he does play they hoof it because he's there and a target, when he's not there they don't have anything like him so they don't do it, quite simple really. They do obviously play it on the floor as there's nowt in the air but its not carpet football and for me not a real plan of attack and really the whole thing hinges on whether Carroll and Suarez can play together, blend and bring their obvious contrasting qualities to the pitch and make them work, two styles not just one. If that happens then he has a great chance, it might click, it might not, its an expensive gamble and currently looking like Carroll is too one dimensional to pull it off. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Gleebals Posted September 8, 2011 Share Posted September 8, 2011 They'll be lucky to get a £20m striker out of him, we'd have been lucky to get that also, only he'd have stood a better chance up here as we'd not drop him, stick by him, and love him regardless. Its already a 50-50 split opinion on him in Liverpool and it could get worse. When Dogleash is looking for big results to secure 4th spot he won't be given time to Carroll to get up to speed, find his feet, his confidence etc...he'll play with the effective Kuyt and the highly talented Suarez to secure the win. If this goes on; how he reacts now and how the club support him are going to not only define his season, but his Liverpool career. If he gets unhappy, lonely, and regretting his decision to move while sitting on the bench he'll go off the rails in his private life and with half a city glad to wind him up it will only be a matter of time till another headline splashes the front and back pages. The one thing I will say is that it hasn't come to that, dropped temporarily by England and Liverpool, we need to see if this develops further, or if Dogleash has a plan for the XI which includes Carroll, or whether he was a panic buy on the last day and having seen him in training isn't the player he thought he was when he sanctioned such a fee for the big man. I don't see Liverpool playing a passing game btw, in fact its as haphazard as ours, depending who is on the pitch dictates the way they play. Imo i don't think Dogleash has put that much thought in to it and could be Carroll's saving grace. When he does play they hoof it because he's there and a target, when he's not there they don't have anything like him so they don't do it, quite simple really. They do obviously play it on the floor as there's nowt in the air but its not carpet football and for me not a real plan of attack and really the whole thing hinges on whether Carroll and Suarez can play together, blend and bring their obvious contrasting qualities to the pitch and make them work, two styles not just one. If that happens then he has a great chance, it might click, it might not, its an expensive gamble and currently looking like Carroll is too one dimensional to pull it off. Spot on. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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