Guest afternoonfix Posted January 25, 2009 Share Posted January 25, 2009 look at the shit we are in now cos he decides to walk again................... he is responsible for a large chunk of this crap. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karjala Posted January 25, 2009 Share Posted January 25, 2009 look at the shit we are in now cos he decides to walk again................... he is responsible for a large chunk of this crap. I think its a bit more complex than KK walking and the toon then being shit. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted January 25, 2009 Share Posted January 25, 2009 Keegan was far superior to Robson in the transfer market. Robert & Bellamy apart, and to a lesser extent Woodgate & Jenas, his transfers here were disappointing on the whole. Robson was poor in the transfer market with most of the better players in his team coming here before he did. I'll add Acuna, Bernard & Distin to the good signings list, but the amount of money blown on players like Cort, Bassedas, Viana, Bramble, Ambrose, Butt & Carr was scary. Milner, N'Zogbia. And Gallacher did the job he was brought in for. Agree with the general point, though. was helder one of his aswell ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cronky Posted January 25, 2009 Share Posted January 25, 2009 look at the shit we are in now cos he decides to walk again................... he is responsible for a large chunk of this crap. I think its a bit more complex than KK walking and the toon then being shit. No-one comes out of this smelling of roses. Ashley had a long-term plan for developing the club which was never going to be popular because most fans want quick success and don't really care about underlying financial realities. He saw Keegan as the man who could bring the fans on board. Keegan, on the other hand, only accepted the job as a way out of his own financial troubles. He had no wish to stick around for a long-term slog and started using his standing with the fans to put pressure on Ashley to change his strategy. Behind the scenes, things were hopelessly divided and Keegan walked at the first opportunity, when he could claim constructive dismissal and get his money. You can blame Ashley for setting up that situation, or you could blame Keegan for taking advantage of it. Or both. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NG32 Posted January 25, 2009 Share Posted January 25, 2009 It bizarre how people claming to support NUFC can slag Keegan off after all he’s done for NUFC yet happily lick the whinnets off Ashley arse for turning us into a total laughing stock. I dont know how old you are but i am 45 and KK has walked out twice on us and dropped us in the s*** both times and that is why he gets stick for it . Erm, the first time he left, he left us with an amazing first team, the best team we've ever had. The second time he left us with only a few games gone. Both times were easily repairable if the management could have made the right decisions at the time. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmojorisin75 Posted January 25, 2009 Share Posted January 25, 2009 look at the shit we are in now cos he decides to walk again................... he is responsible for a large chunk of this crap. I think its a bit more complex than KK walking and the toon then being shit. No-one comes out of this smelling of roses. Ashley had a long-term plan for developing the club which was never going to be popular because most fans want quick success and don't really care about underlying financial realities. He saw Keegan as the man who could bring the fans on board. Keegan, on the other hand, only accepted the job as a way out of his own financial troubles. He had no wish to stick around for a long-term slog and started using his standing with the fans to put pressure on Ashley to change his strategy. Behind the scenes, things were hopelessly divided and Keegan walked at the first opportunity, when he could claim constructive dismissal and get his money. You can blame Ashley for setting up that situation, or you could blame Keegan for taking advantage of it. Or both. erm, how much of that do you know as fact i wonder? i tend to agree with you, in a way, but have you seen anything other than some shit article in a toon-hating rag to back up that keegan had/has financial problems? as for keegan putting pressure on ashley to change haven't you just imagined that? as i recall he towed the line til 2nd sep then fucked off into the sunset to prepare suing the club he purports to love - i certainly don't recall him making any grand gestures or statements before 2nd sep granted all of this DOES add up to looking like he had financial trouble Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
timnufc22 Posted January 25, 2009 Share Posted January 25, 2009 If you want to go on rumours about finance, then the rumours were Dennis Wise & Llambias treated Keegan with a lack of respect, and its not like the board havent treat the fans with contempt is it? I can imagine how frustrating it could have been accepting the system, but then seemingly losing more & more control, potentially going from 'we only bring in players you want' to 'this is the player we need to bring in'. Here's an interview with richard bevan from lma at the time http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/football_focus/7601211.stm Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cronky Posted January 25, 2009 Share Posted January 25, 2009 look at the shit we are in now cos he decides to walk again................... he is responsible for a large chunk of this crap. I think its a bit more complex than KK walking and the toon then being shit. No-one comes out of this smelling of roses. Ashley had a long-term plan for developing the club which was never going to be popular because most fans want quick success and don't really care about underlying financial realities. He saw Keegan as the man who could bring the fans on board. Keegan, on the other hand, only accepted the job as a way out of his own financial troubles. He had no wish to stick around for a long-term slog and started using his standing with the fans to put pressure on Ashley to change his strategy. Behind the scenes, things were hopelessly divided and Keegan walked at the first opportunity, when he could claim constructive dismissal and get his money. You can blame Ashley for setting up that situation, or you could blame Keegan for taking advantage of it. Or both. erm, how much of that do you know as fact i wonder? i tend to agree with you, in a way, but have you seen anything other than some shit article in a toon-hating rag to back up that keegan had/has financial problems? as for keegan putting pressure on ashley to change haven't you just imagined that? as i recall he towed the line til 2nd sep then fucked off into the sunset to prepare suing the club he purports to love - i certainly don't recall him making any grand gestures or statements before 2nd sep granted all of this DOES add up to looking like he had financial trouble It's not so that Keegan toed the line before Sep 2nd. There was that outburst after the Chelsea game a few months before, and then there were comments about Milner's transfer and, I think, Owen's contract as well. He had agreed that he wouldn't make public comments about transfer matters. As for Keegan's motivation, that can never be 'fact', but your last sentence sums it up. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cronky Posted January 25, 2009 Share Posted January 25, 2009 If you want to go on rumours about finance, then the rumours were Dennis Wise & Llambias treated Keegan with a lack of respect, and its not like the board havent treat the fans with contempt is it? I can imagine how frustrating it could have been accepting the system, but then seemingly losing more & more control, potentially going from 'we only bring in players you want' to 'this is the player we need to bring in'. Here's an interview with richard bevan from lma at the time http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/football_focus/7601211.stm That was an interesting interview which I've not seen before, and I'd urge other people to watch it. You can interpret it in various ways, but I'm not impressed or convinced by the idea that, in his actions, Keegan was only thinking of the fans. Richard Bevan also makes the point that the DOF / Manager system can work extremely well, if there's goodwill and co-operation from both sides. However, he's not in a position to say whether it was Wise or Keegan at fault, because he's only heard one side of the story. He also makes the point that Curbishley and Keegan accepted their jobs under different conditions. He states that Curbishley was given absolute control over transfers, whereas the position with Keegan was 'unclear'. Again, he'd have to listen to both sides before he could say whether it really was 'unclear', or whether Keegan was simply not playing ball. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fredbob Posted January 25, 2009 Share Posted January 25, 2009 Keegan was far superior to Robson in the transfer market. Robert & Bellamy apart, and to a lesser extent Woodgate & Jenas, his transfers here were disappointing on the whole. Robson was poor in the transfer market with most of the better players in his team coming here before he did. I'll add Acuna, Bernard & Distin to the good signings list, but the amount of money blown on players like Cort, Bassedas, Viana, Bramble, Ambrose, Butt & Carr was scary. Milner, N'Zogbia. And Gallacher did the job he was brought in for. Agree with the general point, though. was helder one of his aswell ? Think so, think Domi and Distin were as well, although obviously Distin didnt sign. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted January 25, 2009 Share Posted January 25, 2009 I don't know why we have to make a comparison on Keegan V Bobby, they were both brilliant for this club and nothing is going to change that. I do think Keegan has contributed to our problems this season by walking out but that doesn’t change what he’s done here before, both as player and manager. Keegan as a player then manager first time around and Bobby here as manager, I'd have any of those periods again if the choice was available. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tooj Posted January 25, 2009 Share Posted January 25, 2009 I don't know why we have to make a comparison on Keegan V Bobby, they were both brilliant for this club and nothing is going to change that. I do think Keegan has contributed to our problems this season by walking out but that doesnt change what hes done here before, both as player and manager. Keegan as a player then manager first time around and Bobby here as manager, I'd have any of those periods again if the choice was available. So you want us relegated first? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
OzzieMandias Posted January 25, 2009 Share Posted January 25, 2009 Keegan was far superior to Robson in the transfer market. Robert & Bellamy apart, and to a lesser extent Woodgate & Jenas, his transfers here were disappointing on the whole. Robson was poor in the transfer market with most of the better players in his team coming here before he did. I'll add Acuna, Bernard & Distin to the good signings list, but the amount of money blown on players like Cort, Bassedas, Viana, Bramble, Ambrose, Butt & Carr was scary. Milner, N'Zogbia. And Gallacher did the job he was brought in for. Agree with the general point, though. was helder one of his aswell ? Yeah. But it was essentially just a season loan. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
OzzieMandias Posted January 25, 2009 Share Posted January 25, 2009 Keegan was far superior to Robson in the transfer market. Robert & Bellamy apart, and to a lesser extent Woodgate & Jenas, his transfers here were disappointing on the whole. Robson was poor in the transfer market with most of the better players in his team coming here before he did. I'll add Acuna, Bernard & Distin to the good signings list, but the amount of money blown on players like Cort, Bassedas, Viana, Bramble, Ambrose, Butt & Carr was scary. Milner, N'Zogbia. And Gallacher did the job he was brought in for. Agree with the general point, though. was helder one of his aswell ? Think so, think Domi and Distin were as well, although obviously Distin didnt sign. Domi was a Gullit signing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liam Liam Liam O Posted January 25, 2009 Share Posted January 25, 2009 I got nothing on what? Keegan wasnt a great manager thats a fact. Theres nothing else to it mate, i appreciated what he did in the past for us but that doesnt mean im eternally grateful, nobodies immune from critisicm, especially someone who walks out the club like Keegan has. I could quite easily go into his overall managerial record and point out the avergagness of it, or i could easily go into how he knew little about our squad when he re-signed (he loves nufc remeber) or how he doesnt attend games in non formal roles (loves nufc remember) but ill not bother becasue no doubt it'll be ignored by the majority. The over reaction to some of the criticisms posted on the board highlight the problem that was casued by the blinkered fans when it all kicked off in the summer - none of you could see the big picture and we're paying for it. Yes he was. Great manager. Great footballer. Great bloke. Everything Ashley isnt. Keegan earned the respect of thousands of supporters. He doesnt need to get a round in for people to like him. Appointing Keegan was a desperate measure by a man out of his depth. Letting him walk six months later was a mistake of huge proportions. Keegan is how he is, you cant change him and everybody knows hes temperamental. Ashely tried to squeeze a square peg into a round hole with predictably disastrous consequences. When the going gets tough you have to trust your friends. Im 100% certain Keegan is a friend of NUFC, and 99% certain Ashley isnt. When the going gets tough Keegan gets going unfortunately. That's just the way he is. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
OzzieMandias Posted January 25, 2009 Share Posted January 25, 2009 Re. Keegan and financial troubles at Soccer Circus, this Feb 2008 story followed the publication of their last set of accounts: Kevin Keegan's return to football may be connected to the business accounts of the Newcastle United manager's Soccer Circus. The figures, published this month, reveal that Keegan has loaned at least £2.37m to the company. That may be considered an enormous gamble by the former England coach because in the 12 months to April 2007 the start-up made an operating loss of more than £1m. Soccer Circus runs what it describes as "the world's first interactive football attraction" out of the Xscape sports and leisure centre in the Braehead area of Glasgow. But to get to its long-awaited opening 16 months ago the company required a massive financial commitment from Keegan. According to the company's website the project, which was about 10 years in the making, has received more than £6m of investment. As far back as April 2004 Soccer Circus stated it had net liabilities of almost £1m but declared itself a "going concern on the grounds that [Keegan] will continue to support the company". At that time he had invested almost £1.7m in interest-free loans; by April 2005 this had risen to £1.9m; in April 2006 his declared investment in Soccer Circus had reached £2.37m. http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2008/feb/01/sport.comment So, a year ago, Soccer Circus was losing money hand over fist and was only a going concern because Keegan had undertaken to support the company. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
OzzieMandias Posted January 25, 2009 Share Posted January 25, 2009 Independent story from last September: Years in preparation, Soccer Circus opened in September 2006 and Keegan himself hinted at the extent of the debts on a trip back in March. With accounts showing a pre-tax loss of £1m up to April 2007, Keegan said: "If you want to look upon this as a place that will make a profit in its first year and a half, well it won't do that. There is £4m worth of stuff behind the scenes here, so you won't get that back in a year, you'll get that back over 10 years." Prior to succeeding Sam Allardyce, Keegan worked there every day, answering the telephone and serving tea in the canteen. The impression was not of a business about to boom, but it needed to. When The Independent interviewed Keegan there 18 months ago, Keegan touched on his personal finances. "For the last 10 years I've been putting my earnings to one side, paying people to work full time on research and development," Keegan said. He then added that into Soccer Circus he has put "almost everything we've got, me and my family." http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/keeping-circus-on-the-road-cut-managers-room-for-manoeuvre-919395.html Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted January 25, 2009 Share Posted January 25, 2009 So you want us relegated first? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
timnufc22 Posted January 25, 2009 Share Posted January 25, 2009 Interesting Shearer interview about it all. http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/football_focus/7601194.stm Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thespence Posted January 25, 2009 Share Posted January 25, 2009 Interesting Shearer interview about it all. http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/football_focus/7601194.stm That interview looks like it is from last year. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
timnufc22 Posted January 25, 2009 Share Posted January 25, 2009 Interesting Shearer interview about it all. http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/football_focus/7601194.stm That interview looks like it is from last year. Is indeed, I'd just never saw it, and has points/debate that still remain now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cronky Posted January 25, 2009 Share Posted January 25, 2009 Interesting Shearer interview about it all. http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/football_focus/7601194.stm That interview looks like it is from last year. Is indeed, I'd just never saw it, and has points/debate that still remain now. Again, it's an interesting interview, but it's hard to tell how 'in the know' Shearer really was. He didn't say anything that any of us couldn't have picked up from reading the papers. The point he made about the success of Man U and Arsenal being an indication that the manager-as-supremo model works best isn't actually logical. If nearly every club in England operates that model, then the successful ones are going to work to that plan as well. You may as well point to the teams at the bottom and see that as evidence that the model doesn't work. What separates top from bottom in England is a) resources and b) the quality of the manager, not the system as such. But I think he's right in saying that, in the DOF model, the manager either has to accept being a coach, or the two have to work as a team and be appointed with that in mind. That didn't happen with us. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pandamninator Posted January 25, 2009 Share Posted January 25, 2009 "Hey, my Bobby's better than your Kev" Honestly this forum is turning to s****. I wouldn't mind but if it wasn't for KK half the fuckers on here wouldn't be Toon fans. Some of the comments I'm reading are nothing short of sad. Belittling KK's promotion/1st division title, saying he's inferior to Sir Bobby etc. Sir Bobby was obviously the better manager of the two in terms of all-round skills (largely via his experience) and I firmly believe had he took over from KK back in '97 we'd have at some point won the league or wouldn't have went on the Dalglish inspired slide that we did. Regarding their respective records however, Keegan's is in a league of its own and he has done far more for this club than Sir Bobby has or did. If it weren't for KK's work here does anyone think Sir Bobby would have touched us? Where was he in the 70s, 80s etc? That's not a dig by the way, just stating something that needs stating. KK was also better in the transfer market, with Sir Bobby you felt some of his successes were by chance and not design, like KK's with Beardsley, Cole, Sir Les, Ginola, Rob Lee etc. As for being inferior, the two's principles were pretty much the same, good players make a good team and not so much tactics, defend from the front, create a fortress at home, try to win games and so on and so on. Lets not forget whenever Sir Bobby experimented tactically it often cost us. Tactics are important but they are way down the list on any list of essentials. Good players being top, confidence, and motivation coming second, all things KK was equal or better than Sir Bobby in (identifying talent, filling players with confidence, man management, motivation etc.) Let us not forget the talent Sir Bobby inherited either. Given, Speed, Shearer, Dyer, Nobby et al as opposed to what KK inherited... Ozzie's kid's and some journeymen. Regarding KK and chequebooks, its a myth he is that kind of manager. Yes he spent money and good money but he spent less than Liverpool, Arsenal, Man Utd and Blackburn where as in our promotion year the likes of Wolves and Derby spent more than we did. As for some of the affection people have for KK, it goes beyond just the football and what he did on that front, when he was manager first time the training ground was open to fans and we were all in it together, people lucky enough to be there everyday saw a man in tune with us who shared our passion and commitment to the club on a daily basis, who put all his energies into saving our club, helped by Sir John Hall and yes, Dougie and Freddy too. Not that any of this matters, they are both legends of Newcastle United and successful chapters in our club's history who we should all be grateful to and full of respect for. I know I am. I love the pair of them. Truely poetic. Lets not have a debate about the managers, lets just all get along and make sure no ones toes get trampled on. Has anyone else noticed how Keegan fans take similar stances on Keegan "criticisms" (if you can call it that) as NE5 does to Shepherd's... In fact its the same sort of argument, if you dislike Shepherd it means you love Ashley, if you rate SBR much higher than Keegan it means to think Keegan was a s*** manager. (What a hypocrite you are by the way, you can spend weeks and months talking absolute unsubtantiated s*** about the club [you claim to love] and people take it but when someone slights Keegans character based on facts we get this crap) This isnt me defending Ashley incidentally, this is purely an example of your hypocrisy, (you little girl) Translation : I got nothing, but i'm still going to not admit I was wrong and just spout off unrelated s***. I dont know how old you are but i am 45 and KK has walked out twice on us and dropped us in the s*** both times and that is why he gets stick for it . Keegan both times has left us stronger than we were before he arrived, it's not his fault that dopes appoint other dopes to replace them and undo everything he did I got nothing on what? Keegan wasnt a great manager thats a fact. Theres nothing else to it mate, i appreciated what he did in the past for us but that doesnt mean im eternally grateful, nobodies immune from critisicm, especially someone who walks out the club like Keegan has. I could quite easily go into his overall managerial record and point out the avergagness of it, or i could easily go into how he knew little about our squad when he re-signed (he loves nufc remeber) or how he doesnt attend games in non formal roles (loves nufc remember) but ill not bother becasue no doubt it'll be ignored by the majority. The over reaction to some of the criticisms posted on the board highlight the problem that was casued by the blinkered fans when it all kicked off in the summer - none of you could see the big picture and we're paying for it. What's his overall managerial ability got to do with anything? No one's denying the fact SBR was a better manager overall and his resume shows that, but there is no way you can argue that SBR time was better than the job Keegan did in his first reign. And so what if Keegan doesn't attend our games anymore, that's just Keegan, football as a whole has always taken a backseat when he's out of the game to life - he doesn't go to anyones games, if he was still rocking up at Anfield or Hamburg or Fulham on a regular basis that point may actually mean something. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fredbob Posted January 25, 2009 Share Posted January 25, 2009 "Hey, my Bobby's better than your Kev" Honestly this forum is turning to s****. I wouldn't mind but if it wasn't for KK half the fuckers on here wouldn't be Toon fans. Some of the comments I'm reading are nothing short of sad. Belittling KK's promotion/1st division title, saying he's inferior to Sir Bobby etc. Sir Bobby was obviously the better manager of the two in terms of all-round skills (largely via his experience) and I firmly believe had he took over from KK back in '97 we'd have at some point won the league or wouldn't have went on the Dalglish inspired slide that we did. Regarding their respective records however, Keegan's is in a league of its own and he has done far more for this club than Sir Bobby has or did. If it weren't for KK's work here does anyone think Sir Bobby would have touched us? Where was he in the 70s, 80s etc? That's not a dig by the way, just stating something that needs stating. KK was also better in the transfer market, with Sir Bobby you felt some of his successes were by chance and not design, like KK's with Beardsley, Cole, Sir Les, Ginola, Rob Lee etc. As for being inferior, the two's principles were pretty much the same, good players make a good team and not so much tactics, defend from the front, create a fortress at home, try to win games and so on and so on. Lets not forget whenever Sir Bobby experimented tactically it often cost us. Tactics are important but they are way down the list on any list of essentials. Good players being top, confidence, and motivation coming second, all things KK was equal or better than Sir Bobby in (identifying talent, filling players with confidence, man management, motivation etc.) Let us not forget the talent Sir Bobby inherited either. Given, Speed, Shearer, Dyer, Nobby et al as opposed to what KK inherited... Ozzie's kid's and some journeymen. Regarding KK and chequebooks, its a myth he is that kind of manager. Yes he spent money and good money but he spent less than Liverpool, Arsenal, Man Utd and Blackburn where as in our promotion year the likes of Wolves and Derby spent more than we did. As for some of the affection people have for KK, it goes beyond just the football and what he did on that front, when he was manager first time the training ground was open to fans and we were all in it together, people lucky enough to be there everyday saw a man in tune with us who shared our passion and commitment to the club on a daily basis, who put all his energies into saving our club, helped by Sir John Hall and yes, Dougie and Freddy too. Not that any of this matters, they are both legends of Newcastle United and successful chapters in our club's history who we should all be grateful to and full of respect for. I know I am. I love the pair of them. Truely poetic. Lets not have a debate about the managers, lets just all get along and make sure no ones toes get trampled on. Has anyone else noticed how Keegan fans take similar stances on Keegan "criticisms" (if you can call it that) as NE5 does to Shepherd's... In fact its the same sort of argument, if you dislike Shepherd it means you love Ashley, if you rate SBR much higher than Keegan it means to think Keegan was a s*** manager. (What a hypocrite you are by the way, you can spend weeks and months talking absolute unsubtantiated s*** about the club [you claim to love] and people take it but when someone slights Keegans character based on facts we get this crap) This isnt me defending Ashley incidentally, this is purely an example of your hypocrisy, (you little girl) Translation : I got nothing, but i'm still going to not admit I was wrong and just spout off unrelated s***. I dont know how old you are but i am 45 and KK has walked out twice on us and dropped us in the s*** both times and that is why he gets stick for it . Keegan both times has left us stronger than we were before he arrived, it's not his fault that dopes appoint other dopes to replace them and undo everything he did I got nothing on what? Keegan wasnt a great manager thats a fact. Theres nothing else to it mate, i appreciated what he did in the past for us but that doesnt mean im eternally grateful, nobodies immune from critisicm, especially someone who walks out the club like Keegan has. I could quite easily go into his overall managerial record and point out the avergagness of it, or i could easily go into how he knew little about our squad when he re-signed (he loves nufc remeber) or how he doesnt attend games in non formal roles (loves nufc remember) but ill not bother becasue no doubt it'll be ignored by the majority. The over reaction to some of the criticisms posted on the board highlight the problem that was casued by the blinkered fans when it all kicked off in the summer - none of you could see the big picture and we're paying for it. What's his overall managerial ability got to do with anything? No one's denying the fact SBR was a better manager overall and his resume shows that, but there is no way you can argue that SBR time was better than the job Keegan did in his first reign. And so what if Keegan doesn't attend our games anymore, that's just Keegan, football as a whole has always taken a backseat when he's out of the game to life - he doesn't go to anyones games, if he was still rocking up at Anfield or Hamburg or Fulham on a regular basis that point may actually mean something. What are you on? Do you even know what you were replying to when you had a pop at my post? Can you even point out where i said SBR did a better job? That whole post is absolute nonsene, im not even sure which point of mine you're trying to argue. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cp40 Posted January 25, 2009 Share Posted January 25, 2009 This whole thread has turned into an episode of LOST for me.? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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