Just a general observation..When did this happen?

[Ridman]

I'd actually say it was a few weeks before the Partizan game when Shepherd came out to the media and announced that we wouldn't extend Bobby's contract after the season. Even if it was time for him to go (which I don't agree with)  I just think it was a very stupid to come out like that and cause unrest in the squad. I'm sure that Bobby would have wanted to continue and surely it effected him and his job performance knowing that this season would be his last, no matter how well he did. Then of course we lost to Partizan on penalties, made a unlucky start to the season , hired that gobshite Souness, gave him a shitload of money (earned by the team's good performances in recent seasons under Bobby) and started our decline.

But yeah Shepherd was only saving us from relegation  Reading the interview where he said Bobby would get us relegated made me absolutely sick.

[themanupstairs]

http://img.skysports.com/07/11/218x298/FreddyShepherd_598656.jpghttp://img.skysports.com/07/09/218x298/GraemeSouness_566271.jpg

 

herein lies the culprits. this is the cause. the rest are merely symptoms

[Tsunami]

For me this is the moment; 30 Aug 2004.

 

Newcastle boss Sir Bobby Robson has been sacked by the club after their poor start to the Premiership season.

Robson, who was due to leave at the end of the season after the club opted not to renew his contract, has overseen two defeats and two draws this season.

 

We had drawn 2-2 at 'boro when JFH had punched in the equaliser in the last minute, we had lost 1-0 at home to Spurs when we'd stuffed them, we'd drawn 2-2 at home to Norwich after coasting at 2-0 and we'd lost 4-2 at Villa, we'd been 2-1 up at half time. Shearer had been dropped & robson got the push - hmmmm.

 

There'd been rumours of discontent however, we'd finished the previous season in 5th, 4 points behind Liverpool & we could well have finished 4th but for injury problems at the end of the season and only winning 2 away games (12 draws) all season. We were playing decent stuff when SBR got the push & Shepherd got it wrong by not sticking to the agreement in place and what would have been invaluable advice in picking the new manager.

 

SBR said this after the last game of the previous season - a 1-1 draw at Liverpool:

 

"We have had to play four games in 10 days - nobody else has had to do that - and we were on our knees at the end. I do not think we could have played much longer.

 

"We had weary legs. It has been a tough time and we're bushed, for sure. And we have done it despite losing so many players lately through injury.

 

"In the end it was a dramatic day and we were able to give something back to our wonderful support. We are grateful to them because those travelling fans have only seen us win twice away this season. That is inexplicable. It has been painful to watch."

 

"If we had picked up a few more wins away we would have had this place, and probably fourth spot, tied up a long time ago. But we have drawn our last two away games at Southampton and here, and in the end those two points have got us into this position and back into Europe."

 

We appointed Souness and ended that season 14th, 17 points off 4th. We'd blown a great position in the Uefa Cup against Sporting & were blown away in the FA Cup semi by Man U. Yes, we had injury problems again but there was a clear down turn in performances. We finished 7th the next season, 12 points off 4th but by then Souness had taken away the counter attacking threat we'd held and we were becoming slow and predictable. We have struggled ever since.

 

I remember how annoyed I was when SBR got the push and how hurt he clearly was by that decision. Forget Shepherd's other mistakes, he'd also made some very good decisions, getting rid of SBR & appointing Souness was when we became an also rans. SBR was getting us into the Champs League & Uefa; Souness was near the sack at Blackburn. FFS. 

[Tooj]

This issue of when did things go wrong has been much debated, so I'll keep my opinion brief.

 

The longer Shepherd stayed as Chairman, the more we became a one-man band. After 2003, he made a series of bad decisions and we've ended up struggling ever since.

 

I had high hopes that Ashley would turn things around, but he made a mistake in appointing Keegan. Keegan clearly wasn't suited to the role that Ashley had in mind, he was disillusioned with football and IMO wouldn't have come back if his company hadn't been in financial trouble. The chaos of this season has all stemmed from that.

 

Do you have any proof of that?

[Cronky]

This issue of when did things go wrong has been much debated, so I'll keep my opinion brief.

 

The longer Shepherd stayed as Chairman, the more we became a one-man band. After 2003, he made a series of bad decisions and we've ended up struggling ever since.

 

I had high hopes that Ashley would turn things around, but he made a mistake in appointing Keegan. Keegan clearly wasn't suited to the role that Ashley had in mind, he was disillusioned with football and IMO wouldn't have come back if his company hadn't been in financial trouble. The chaos of this season has all stemmed from that.

 

Do you have any proof of that?

 

All of those statements are matters of opinion, so of course there's no proof.

 

But I can't see that there's much doubt that Keegan didn't like working to a DOF. He'd stayed away from the game for three years and not been to a single match, so the idea that he was disillusioned with football isn't a wild one. His company wasn't doing well so again it's not exactly sticking your neck out to say that that influenced his decision to return. Not to mention he quit after only a few months in circumstances that are still unclear.

 

The most logical explanation is that his motivation was always a bit brittle. Not for the first time either.

 

[JJ7]

I would pinpoint Partizan as well. I also think Bobby started to lose the plot a bit during that season. Selling Solano was a massive mistake, and although we finished as high as 5th, in that season it was a low points total for that position. Liverpool were poor that season also and it seemed like we were both creeping over the line.

 

I actually thought Bobby should have been moved upstairs at that point, around the same time Liverpool got rid of Houllier and appointed Benitez. We were still an attractive club for any manager at that time. Im sure Bobby would have moved upstairs and helped to find a successer and we would have had time to appoint someone good as we wouldn't have been short on applicants. The people in charge of Liverpool at the time however were more ambitious and clever that Shepherd. At that point, there was no reason to suggest that Liverpool would go on and become any better than us. We were about on par at the time. They made a good decision, and we didn't make one.

 

When we eventually did sack Bobby in a disgraceful fashion it was terrible timing. We looked a joke because of it. The dressing room wasn't what it was, and Shepherd decided to bring in Souness, seemly for the sole reason of sorting out the dressing room. The only factor Shepherd could have taken into account looking at it.

 

Whats sad is that since then there have been so many tipping moments where we could have gone either way. We could have corrected our mistakes and made the right decision to move forward so many times, but through Shepherd and now Ashley we continue to make bad decision after bad decision and we are where we are now. Every single managerial appointment since Robson has been a bad one. When weve had cash to spend, weve given it to the wrong person. I seriously believe if we had tossed a coin every time an important decision had to be made, we would be in a better position now than we are as a club.

[Robster]

This issue of when did things go wrong has been much debated, so I'll keep my opinion brief.

 

The longer Shepherd stayed as Chairman, the more we became a one-man band. After 2003, he made a series of bad decisions and we've ended up struggling ever since.

 

I had high hopes that Ashley would turn things around, but he made a mistake in appointing Keegan. Keegan clearly wasn't suited to the role that Ashley had in mind, he was disillusioned with football and IMO wouldn't have come back if his company hadn't been in financial trouble. The chaos of this season has all stemmed from that.

 

Do you have any proof of that?

 

All of those statements are matters of opinion, so of course there's no proof.

 

But I can't see that there's much doubt that Keegan didn't like working to a DOF. He'd stayed away from the game for three years and not been to a single match, so the idea that he was disillusioned with football isn't a wild one. His company wasn't doing well so again it's not exactly sticking your neck out to say that that influenced his decision to return. Not to mention he quit after only a few months in circumstances that are still unclear.

 

The most logical explanation is that his motivation was always a bit brittle. Not for the first time either.

 

Yet despite his company supposedly struggling, he still chose to walk away from the sport that he loves. Says everything about football as a whole, never mind just NUFC.

[themanupstairs]

I would pinpoint Partizan as well. I also think Bobby started to lose the plot a bit during that season. Selling Solano was a massive mistake, and although we finished as high as 5th, in that season it was a low points total for that position. Liverpool were poor that season also and it seemed like we were both creeping over the line.

 

I actually thought Bobby should have been moved upstairs at that point, around the same time Liverpool got rid of Houllier and appointed Benitez. We were still an attractive club for any manager at that time. Im sure Bobby would have moved upstairs and helped to find a successer and we would have had time to appoint someone good as we wouldn't have been short on applicants. The people in charge of Liverpool at the time however were more ambitious and clever that Shepherd. At that point, there was no reason to suggest that Liverpool would go on and become any better than us. We were about on par at the time. They made a good decision, and we didn't make one.

 

When we eventually did sack Bobby in a disgraceful fashion it was terrible timing. We looked a joke because of it. The dressing room wasn't what it was, and Shepherd decided to bring in Souness, seemly for the sole reason of sorting out the dressing room. The only factor Shepherd could have taken into account looking at it.

 

Whats sad is that since then there have been so many tipping moments where we could have gone either way. We could have corrected our mistakes and made the right decision to move forward so many times, but through Shepherd and now Ashley we continue to make bad decision after bad decision and we are where we are now. Every single managerial appointment since Robson has been a bad one. When weve had cash to spend, weve given it to the wrong person. I seriously believe if we had tossed a coin every time an important decision had to be made, we would be in a better position now than we are as a club.

 

brilliant

[Doug]

I would pinpoint Partizan as well. I also think Bobby started to lose the plot a bit during that season. Selling Solano was a massive mistake, and although we finished as high as 5th, in that season it was a low points total for that position. Liverpool were poor that season also and it seemed like we were both creeping over the line.

 

I actually thought Bobby should have been moved upstairs at that point, around the same time Liverpool got rid of Houllier and appointed Benitez. We were still an attractive club for any manager at that time. Im sure Bobby would have moved upstairs and helped to find a successer and we would have had time to appoint someone good as we wouldn't have been short on applicants. The people in charge of Liverpool at the time however were more ambitious and clever that Shepherd. At that point, there was no reason to suggest that Liverpool would go on and become any better than us. We were about on par at the time. They made a good decision, and we didn't make one.

 

When we eventually did sack Bobby in a disgraceful fashion it was terrible timing. We looked a joke because of it. The dressing room wasn't what it was, and Shepherd decided to bring in Souness, seemly for the sole reason of sorting out the dressing room. The only factor Shepherd could have taken into account looking at it.

 

Whats sad is that since then there have been so many tipping moments where we could have gone either way. We could have corrected our mistakes and made the right decision to move forward so many times, but through Shepherd and now Ashley we continue to make bad decision after bad decision and we are where we are now. Every single managerial appointment since Robson has been a bad one. When weve had cash to spend, weve given it to the wrong person. I seriously believe if we had tossed a coin every time an important decision had to be made, we would be in a better position now than we are as a club.

You are going to cop it now for criticizing Shepherd.

 

[JJ7]

I would pinpoint Partizan as well. I also think Bobby started to lose the plot a bit during that season. Selling Solano was a massive mistake, and although we finished as high as 5th, in that season it was a low points total for that position. Liverpool were poor that season also and it seemed like we were both creeping over the line.

 

I actually thought Bobby should have been moved upstairs at that point, around the same time Liverpool got rid of Houllier and appointed Benitez. We were still an attractive club for any manager at that time. Im sure Bobby would have moved upstairs and helped to find a successer and we would have had time to appoint someone good as we wouldn't have been short on applicants. The people in charge of Liverpool at the time however were more ambitious and clever that Shepherd. At that point, there was no reason to suggest that Liverpool would go on and become any better than us. We were about on par at the time. They made a good decision, and we didn't make one.

 

When we eventually did sack Bobby in a disgraceful fashion it was terrible timing. We looked a joke because of it. The dressing room wasn't what it was, and Shepherd decided to bring in Souness, seemly for the sole reason of sorting out the dressing room. The only factor Shepherd could have taken into account looking at it.

 

Whats sad is that since then there have been so many tipping moments where we could have gone either way. We could have corrected our mistakes and made the right decision to move forward so many times, but through Shepherd and now Ashley we continue to make bad decision after bad decision and we are where we are now. Every single managerial appointment since Robson has been a bad one. When weve had cash to spend, weve given it to the wrong person. I seriously believe if we had tossed a coin every time an important decision had to be made, we would be in a better position now than we are as a club.

You are going to cop it now for criticizing Shepherd.

 

Oops!

[Thespence]

Bobby revived us for a few years but the biggest step back ever in NUFC PL history was the summer 1997

 

Ginola, Beardsley, Les,  Clark &  Elliott all out & later on that season Tino bolted we lost great players, skill & passion like never before.

 

We brought in: Rush, Barnes,  Pearce, Pistone, Tomasson, Ketsbaia & Paddy Kelly a bunch of has beens, heartless & nothing players...........fairplay we did get Given that summer.

[Bad Mongo]

All of those statements are matters of opinion, so of course there's no proof.

 

But I can't see that there's much doubt that Keegan didn't like working to a DOF. He'd stayed away from the game for three years and not been to a single match, so the idea that he was disillusioned with football isn't a wild one. His company wasn't doing well so again it's not exactly sticking your neck out to say that that influenced his decision to return. Not to mention he quit after only a few months in circumstances that are still unclear.

 

The most logical explanation is that his motivation was always a bit brittle. Not for the first time either.

 

 

What you're saying is that you base your opinion on nothing tangible. Which is correct. But that's not an aspect of opinion as such.

 

My opinion is that Ashley made a mistake in not supporting Keegan. That opinion is well reasoned, since Keegan had harped on for a long time about not having sufficient backup in some positions (which both Shearer and Kinnear have confirmed). Milner was sold and not replaced. That's a fact.

 

Which other manager would make that squad play good football? A squad with no creativity in midfield. Not one winger who can put in a credible cross. A squad without leaders and lacking severely in natural fitness. Unsuited for 4-4-2, 4-3-3 and 4-5-1.

 

Of course Keegan's motivation would crumble under those circumstances. So would everyone else's, even if he was "desperate for the job".

[Mr Logic]

Roeder was way out of his comfort zone and should be in the pictures also imo. The reason he had a good run initially was the feelgood factor from Souness' departure and the fact he had Shearer as his assistant until the end of that first season. Come the second season, standing on his own, he was horrible exposed.

[OzzieMandias]

That Keegan was a bit disillusioned with the game is not a matter of opinion. He's on record expressing that disillusionment, in quotes that were subsequently posted on here, and saying that he had no desire to go back into management. You can feel it also in his outburst after the Chelsea game.

 

And I think most of us could see that he wasn't quite the same man. He'd took quite a few knocks between leaving and coming back, and seemed to have lost some of the vivacity and fearlessness of his younger days.

 

Financial probs at Soccer Circus are also a matter of public record. The unproven leap is in connecting that with his decision to take the job, not long after declaring that he would never go back into management.

[Thespence]

After the Chelsea game I felt he was disillusioned with THEM upstairs.

 

Anyone know how The Circus is staying open when all Jock businesses seem to be going to the wall.

[magpie418]

Owners/Managers listening to sections of the support never helps us much.

[OzzieMandias]

After the Chelsea game I felt he was disillusioned with THEM upstairs.

 

Anyone know how The Circus is staying open when all Jock businesses seem to be going to the wall.

 

Because its losses are still being underwritten by Keegan? I don't think it's ever been in profit.

[TRon]

That Keegan was a bit disillusioned with the game is not a matter of opinion. He's on record expressing that disillusionment, in quotes that were subsequently posted on here, and saying that he had no desire to go back into management. You can feel it also in his outburst after the Chelsea game.

 

And I think most of us could see that he wasn't quite the same man. He'd took quite a few knocks between leaving and coming back, and seemed to have lost some of the vivacity and fearlessness of his younger days.

 

Financial probs at Soccer Circus are also a matter of public record. The unproven leap is in connecting that with his decision to take the job, not long after declaring that he would never go back into management.

 

We have only played football worth watching under two managers in my time watching Newcastle, SBR and Keegan. As you must know I am no Keeganite but whatever the rights and wrongs of his latest stint as manager, this was the closest we have come to playing passing football again in ages. Compare the footy we were playing at the beginning of the season to the travesty we served up against Stoke and it was light years apart.

 

 

[OzzieMandias]

That Keegan was a bit disillusioned with the game is not a matter of opinion. He's on record expressing that disillusionment, in quotes that were subsequently posted on here, and saying that he had no desire to go back into management. You can feel it also in his outburst after the Chelsea game.

 

And I think most of us could see that he wasn't quite the same man. He'd took quite a few knocks between leaving and coming back, and seemed to have lost some of the vivacity and fearlessness of his younger days.

 

Financial probs at Soccer Circus are also a matter of public record. The unproven leap is in connecting that with his decision to take the job, not long after declaring that he would never go back into management.

 

We have only played football worth watching under two managers in my time watching Newcastle, SBR and Keegan. As you must know I am no Keeganite but whatever the rights and wrongs of his latest stint as manager, this was the closest we have come to playing passing football again in ages. Compare the footy we were playing at the beginning of the season to the travesty we served up against Stoke and it was light years apart.

 

 

 

And this relates to the question of his motivations for coming back and then leaving again... how exactly?

[TRon]

That Keegan was a bit disillusioned with the game is not a matter of opinion. He's on record expressing that disillusionment, in quotes that were subsequently posted on here, and saying that he had no desire to go back into management. You can feel it also in his outburst after the Chelsea game.

 

And I think most of us could see that he wasn't quite the same man. He'd took quite a few knocks between leaving and coming back, and seemed to have lost some of the vivacity and fearlessness of his younger days.

 

Financial probs at Soccer Circus are also a matter of public record. The unproven leap is in connecting that with his decision to take the job, not long after declaring that he would never go back into management.

 

We have only played football worth watching under two managers in my time watching Newcastle, SBR and Keegan. As you must know I am no Keeganite but whatever the rights and wrongs of his latest stint as manager, this was the closest we have come to playing passing football again in ages. Compare the footy we were playing at the beginning of the season to the travesty we served up against Stoke and it was light years apart.

 

 

 

And this relates to the question of his motivations for coming back and then leaving again... how exactly?

 

My post was related to the topic as a whole, I only quoted your post because it mentioned Keegan.

[wacko]

Sourness is where is went wrong.

When Freddy hired him, I thought, "what the fuck are they doing? No way they'll get anywhere near 5th next season with that clown in charge." For an outsider, that stands out as being probably the worst of many bad decisions made by the NUFC board.

[Ronaldo]

We stayed up in spite of Roeder in that 06/07 season; absolutely pathetic manager - worse than Souness imo. You're probably right not to include him though; he merely maintained the shitness. He's not as bad as Kinnear. We've got a better squad than we did then yet we're miles worse.

 

Roeder has to get an awful lot of credit for getting us to 7th in 05/06.  Won 10 out of 15 games or something like that, took over when we 16th. Not a good manager but no worse than Souness, who'd put put stroking his own ego before us progressing every single time

[JH]

It really is amazing how all of the forum's long standing debates have all come crashing and colliding together in one thread

[cp40]

http://img.skysports.com/07/11/218x298/FreddyShepherd_598656.jpghttp://img.skysports.com/07/09/218x298/GraemeSouness_566271.jpghttp://img.skysports.com/08/01/218x298/MikeAshley_621291.jpghttp://img.skysports.com/09/01/218x298/Sam-Allardyce_1853938.jpghttp://img.skysports.com/08/03/218x298/Kevin_Keegan_696802.jpghttp://img.skysports.com/08/10/218x298/joe-kinnear_1429521.jpg

 

 

What, no Alan Shearer, surely he is part of the pantomime now.

 

 

oh and Gullit, and dagliesh,

[Guest fading star]

9th May 2004

 

http://www.nufc.com/html/2004-05-09wolves-h.html

 

“Three days after the semi-final of a European Cup competition and with a top four league place up for grabs, Newcastle are booed by a section of their own supporters and then handed a colossal vote of no confidence in the manager and players by a collective walkout at the final whistle.

 

But when the dust settles on this apparent show of petulance and emotions are checked back enough to allow for a modicum of perspective, then the reasons for the display of social disobedience have been plain to see for months. Since around 4pm on the first day of our season to be exact.

“

We finished fifth.