Dr Venkman Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 The good times were despite Shepherd not because of him. John Hall was the driving force behind appointing Bobby Robson, he wanted to appoint him earlier but Shepherd and Hall Jr. persuaded him to appoint Dalglish instead. I thought they did approach/offer Bobby the job (when KK left), but he wouldn't walk away from Barcelona at the time? I am just going off a John Hall quote at the time. He said he was good friends with Bobby and had discussed the job with him but his son and Freddie were more keen on Dalglish. Hall seems to have a lot more football sense than many. He was recommending Martinez as a potentially good manager a long time before he became a household name. agreed, just why on earth he had to start letting his fat mate in on all the decisions, we'll never know Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
quayside Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 Who cares though? It's just a desperate attempt at diverting blame from Ashley and his merry band of wankers, four years and hundreds of decisions down the line. I cared at the time for sure. If the worst happens and we don't fill the gaps in the squad, as many seem to be certain will be the case, then nothing whatsoever will divert blame from Ashley and his posse. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Optimistic Nut Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 Who cares though? It's just a desperate attempt at diverting blame from Ashley and his merry band of wankers, four years and hundreds of decisions down the line. I cared at the time for sure. If the worst happens and we don't fill the gaps in the squad, as many seem to be certain will be the case, then nothing whatsoever will divert blame from Ashley and his posse. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 Who cares though? It's just a desperate attempt at diverting blame from Ashley and his merry band of wankers, four years and hundreds of decisions down the line. I cared at the time for sure. If the worst happens and we don't fill the gaps in the squad, as many seem to be certain will be the case, then nothing whatsoever will divert blame from Ashley and his posse. Apologies, that post wasn't aimed at you. I was referring generally to all the discussion about how stupid Shepherd was. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Venkman Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 How long will that excuse wash Nut? Are we going to hearing defence of Ashley in 2015, 2020 when he sells another top player and the money disappears because of 'wot Freddy did'? It's a valid excuse as to why we're not a top 4-6 club certainly imo. We're where we are when he came in, and have the basis or a cracking squad with Krul, Coloccini, Taylor, Cabaye, Tiote, Jonas, Barton, Marveaux, Ba, Ben Arfa...two signings before September 1st, and even if we lose the derby I think we could have a good crack at top 8. we had the basis of a cracking squad in january, and a pretty good team i should add. we've since sold the two best players, replaced one of them with a vastly cheaper and more than likely shitter option and have yet to even bother replacing the other. leopards dont change their spots, we'll keep doing it. Don't get me wrong what we achieve is despite what Ashley does not because of him. But even without Carroll & Enrique, if we get a decent striker & left-back in the next fortnight, added to the players such as Cabaye & Marveaux who've came since then, I think we can do well. Obviously if that doesn't happen, then aye, poor. i think we can have a decent season as well if those players come in. the thing is though, that's all we'll ever have while he's here imo, a decent season, because his first real chance to push on has been completely bottled. there's nothing that makes me think we'll do it next season, if there was any ambition still lingering we would have seen it this summer. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
quayside Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 Who cares though? It's just a desperate attempt at diverting blame from Ashley and his merry band of wankers, four years and hundreds of decisions down the line. I cared at the time for sure. If the worst happens and we don't fill the gaps in the squad, as many seem to be certain will be the case, then nothing whatsoever will divert blame from Ashley and his posse. Apologies, that post wasn't aimed at you. I was referring generally to all the discussion about how stupid Shepherd was. No worries Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wullie Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 Depends on your definition of a decent season. For me it's Europe, or at least being in the top seven to give ourselves a chance. Anything less I don't consider 'decent'. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrenchWilliam Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 Depends on your definition of a decent season. For me it's Europe, or at least being in the top seven to give ourselves a chance. Anything less I don't consider 'decent'. I'd be happy with 8th-10th this season*, maybe Europe the next season. *Not to say we shouldn't aim higher, but I think 8th-10th would be a good season. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Optimistic Nut Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 Depends on your definition of a decent season. For me it's Europe, or at least being in the top seven to give ourselves a chance. Anything less I don't consider 'decent'. I would say that getting 7th is possible (if we get a LB and ST). There's a lot of meh teams in this league. I expect us to finish top 10 (which I would personally be happy with), but I'd say that our squad + a LB and ST could be capable of pushing on. I think the top 6 are away, but with a left-back and striker, there's nothing from Everton, Villa, etc. that strikes fear into me this season. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PineBarrens Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 Anyone remotely optimistic about this season has officially entered the arena of the absurd. I must be going nuts then I'm still optimistic, because I still believe we'll get a decent LB and ST in. If that has happened come September 1st, then I won't be quite as confident. If we get those two players in though (providing they're of good quality), I think we'll have much better squad depth than last season. I feel that any optimism lingering from last season has been extinguished this summer as it's become increasingly clear that the corpulent one has no ambition other than keeping the team in the premier league and the wage bill at a minimum primed for a sale. There seems to be too much hope placed on how well the new signings adapt (one of which is essentially a kid) to the premier league, Ba excepted, and we're already into a season without the centre forward and left back we need. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Optimistic Nut Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 Anyone remotely optimistic about this season has officially entered the arena of the absurd. I must be going nuts then I'm still optimistic, because I still believe we'll get a decent LB and ST in. If that has happened come September 1st, then I won't be quite as confident. If we get those two players in though (providing they're of good quality), I think we'll have much better squad depth than last season. I feel that any optimism lingering from last season has been extinguished this summer as it's become increasingly clear that the corpulent one has no ambition other than keeping the team in the premier league and the wage bill at a minimum primed for a sale. There seems to be too much hope placed on how well the new signings adapt (one of which is essentially a kid) to the premier league, Ba excepted, and we're already into a season without the centre forward and left back we need. Even taking that into consideration what you've said about Ashley, we could still do good things on the pitch this season. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wullie Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 If we do these good things, he'll sell off the best players in January and next summer though. Rinse and repeat. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PineBarrens Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 Anyone remotely optimistic about this season has officially entered the arena of the absurd. I must be going nuts then I'm still optimistic, because I still believe we'll get a decent LB and ST in. If that has happened come September 1st, then I won't be quite as confident. If we get those two players in though (providing they're of good quality), I think we'll have much better squad depth than last season. I feel that any optimism lingering from last season has been extinguished this summer as it's become increasingly clear that the corpulent one has no ambition other than keeping the team in the premier league and the wage bill at a minimum primed for a sale. There seems to be too much hope placed on how well the new signings adapt (one of which is essentially a kid) to the premier league, Ba excepted, and we're already into a season without the centre forward and left back we need. Even taking that into consideration what you've said about Ashley, we could still do good things on the pitch this season. If all the signing click I agree, but only with the (essential) addition of a decent centre forward and left back. Personally, I'd be chuffed with a top ten finish. The overiding problem (as there was last season) however remains that it's difficult to truly enjoy it because of the underlying feeling that the fuckers upstairs are, intentionally or not, going to fuck things up again at some point a la Hughton and Carroll. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frazzle Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 For the sake of argument/devils' advocate: If Ashley simply wanted 17th place every season would we be going for the likes of Cabaye and Marveaux. We could've hoovered up the likes of Larsson and Reo Coker to replace the outgoings are even held on to the likes of Routledge instead (although obviously it could been argued those players could take us down) but we've gone for a player he was wanted by Liverpool (I doubt he's taken £30k less a week here so he must be on decent wedge) and a double-winning French international He's obviously doing things on the cheap for sure but if he does want to sell the club surely he'll be in a better position to do so if we're higher up the table. Bigger and more successful clubs go for more money. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gallowgate Toon Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 Spot on. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frazzle Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 If we do these good things, he'll sell off the best players in January and next summer though. Rinse and repeat. Do you reckon Tiote will leave this summer? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 For the sake of argument/devils' advocate: If Ashley simply wanted 17th place every season would we be going for the likes of Cabaye and Marveaux. We could've hoovered up the likes of Larsson and Reo Coker to replace the outgoings are even held on to the likes of Routledge instead (although obviously it could been argued those players could take us down) but we've gone for a player he was wanted by Liverpool (I doubt he's taken £30k less a week here so he must be on decent wedge) and a double-winning French international He's obviously doing things on the cheap for sure but if he does want to sell the club surely he'll be in a better position to do so if we're higher up the table. Bigger and more successful clubs go for more money. I've always said this. He doesn't lack the desire for success, he's just not prepared to subsidise us to make it happen faster. So he's trying to do it by getting good deals and playing hardball over wages - like he has done all his life. Whether it will work or not, or you agree with it, is another question but I don't think you can say he's happy for us to finish 4th bottom every season. Seems he would rather see us finish as high as possible, but only under the financial conditions he's prepared to accept. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 For the sake of argument/devils' advocate: If Ashley simply wanted 17th place every season would we be going for the likes of Cabaye and Marveaux. We could've hoovered up the likes of Larsson and Reo Coker to replace the outgoings are even held on to the likes of Routledge instead (although obviously it could been argued those players could take us down) but we've gone for a player he was wanted by Liverpool (I doubt he's taken £30k less a week here so he must be on decent wedge) and a double-winning French international He's obviously doing things on the cheap for sure but if he does want to sell the club surely he'll be in a better position to do so if we're higher up the table. Bigger and more successful clubs go for more money. The wages probably aren't that much more for the 2 French lads I'd imagine plus te potential to sell those two on for greater fees is bigger than it ever would be for SL and NRC. Plus with those you'd think we're less likely to go down which must always be at the back of his mind. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishmael Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 If we do these good things, he'll sell off the best players in January and next summer though. Rinse and repeat. Posts like this are rather annoying. We are not in a position to reject generous offers for our players from bigger clubs. 'He', and I will assume you mean our chairman, has very little say if the likes of Liverpool come knocking and turning our players heads. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colocho Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 For the sake of argument/devils' advocate: If Ashley simply wanted 17th place every season would we be going for the likes of Cabaye and Marveaux. We could've hoovered up the likes of Larsson and Reo Coker to replace the outgoings are even held on to the likes of Routledge instead (although obviously it could been argued those players could take us down) but we've gone for a player he was wanted by Liverpool (I doubt he's taken £30k less a week here so he must be on decent wedge) and a double-winning French international He's obviously doing things on the cheap for sure but if he does want to sell the club surely he'll be in a better position to do so if we're higher up the table. Bigger and more successful clubs go for more money. Cabaye, Marveaux, Tiote and Ben Arfa have the potential to be sold for a lot more than what we paid for them.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Wally_McFool Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 If we do these good things, he'll sell off the best players in January and next summer though. Rinse and repeat. ...which is what a lot of people still aint getting. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frazzle Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 For the sake of argument/devils' advocate: If Ashley simply wanted 17th place every season would we be going for the likes of Cabaye and Marveaux. We could've hoovered up the likes of Larsson and Reo Coker to replace the outgoings are even held on to the likes of Routledge instead (although obviously it could been argued those players could take us down) but we've gone for a player he was wanted by Liverpool (I doubt he's taken £30k less a week here so he must be on decent wedge) and a double-winning French international He's obviously doing things on the cheap for sure but if he does want to sell the club surely he'll be in a better position to do so if we're higher up the table. Bigger and more successful clubs go for more money. Cabaye, Marveaux, Tiote and Ben Arfa have the potential to be sold for a lot more than what we paid for them.... Well if he keeps pocketing the money and doesn't reinvest it, the quicker he fucks off. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
toon25 Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 For the sake of argument/devils' advocate: If Ashley simply wanted 17th place every season would we be going for the likes of Cabaye and Marveaux. We could've hoovered up the likes of Larsson and Reo Coker to replace the outgoings are even held on to the likes of Routledge instead (although obviously it could been argued those players could take us down) but we've gone for a player he was wanted by Liverpool (I doubt he's taken £30k less a week here so he must be on decent wedge) and a double-winning French international He's obviously doing things on the cheap for sure but if he does want to sell the club surely he'll be in a better position to do so if we're higher up the table. Bigger and more successful clubs go for more money. Agreed. What I've been saying for ages. But I think one has only to look at Everton to appreciate that a successful football club doesn't necessarily translate into making it a more attractive proposition for buyers. Unless a club is bought by an Arab state or a Russian oligarch, for whom money is no object, the state of finances of a club is bound to have quite a sizeable bearing on proceedings, unfortunately for us. I truly and honestly cannot fathom what Ashley's plan for NUFC actually is. As far as I'm concerned the bloke runs the club on a day to day basis without any degree of foresight - as this LB situation is beginning to prove. What is clear, however, is that he's not 'in love' with the club/fans, etc. That went out of the window after the KK backlash. To him we're just an asset and as time passes it's clear that he's treating us as such, frustration as that may be for us fans. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colocho Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 For the sake of argument/devils' advocate: If Ashley simply wanted 17th place every season would we be going for the likes of Cabaye and Marveaux. We could've hoovered up the likes of Larsson and Reo Coker to replace the outgoings are even held on to the likes of Routledge instead (although obviously it could been argued those players could take us down) but we've gone for a player he was wanted by Liverpool (I doubt he's taken £30k less a week here so he must be on decent wedge) and a double-winning French international He's obviously doing things on the cheap for sure but if he does want to sell the club surely he'll be in a better position to do so if we're higher up the table. Bigger and more successful clubs go for more money. Cabaye, Marveaux, Tiote and Ben Arfa have the potential to be sold for a lot more than what we paid for them.... Well if he keeps pocketing the money and doesn't reinvest it, the quicker he fucks off. Why would he want to fuck off when he's making money? He's got a taste for blood this summer.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
teohgk Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 For the sake of argument/devils' advocate: If Ashley simply wanted 17th place every season would we be going for the likes of Cabaye and Marveaux. We could've hoovered up the likes of Larsson and Reo Coker to replace the outgoings are even held on to the likes of Routledge instead (although obviously it could been argued those players could take us down) but we've gone for a player he was wanted by Liverpool (I doubt he's taken £30k less a week here so he must be on decent wedge) and a double-winning French international He's obviously doing things on the cheap for sure but if he does want to sell the club surely he'll be in a better position to do so if we're higher up the table. Bigger and more successful clubs go for more money. Cabaye, Marveaux, Tiote and Ben Arfa have the potential to be sold for a lot more than what we paid for them.... :frantic: we will be the richest club in the world Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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