The Liverpool Thread

[Beren]

Top post.

[Guest palnese]

 

I've always found the loyalty of Liverpool fans enormously endearing—their tendency to give a manager time, to let him build his own side before passing judgement and to assess him on his own terms—in stark contrast to, say, Real Madrid or Schalke fans. There is little reflexive outrage that we didn't get into the CL, or that we lost this or that game. But the flip side of that is this embarrassingly dogmatic dedication to King Kenny, regardless of what the current reality is.

 

 

Like Hodgson?

[wacko]

Top post.

 

You say that, but I'm just waiting for one of the RAWK mods to see what I've been writing on here and ban me.

[TheGuv]

Would they do that?

[wacko]

 

I've always found the loyalty of Liverpool fans enormously endearing—their tendency to give a manager time, to let him build his own side before passing judgement and to assess him on his own terms—in stark contrast to, say, Real Madrid or Schalke fans. There is little reflexive outrage that we didn't get into the CL, or that we lost this or that game. But the flip side of that is this embarrassingly dogmatic dedication to King Kenny, regardless of what the current reality is.

 

 

Like Hodgson?

 

Right. Because Hodgson wasn't obviously driving the side towards his mid-table comfort zone from the second he arrived.

 

Working or not, at least Kenny's aim is to improve the side, not to entrench it where it stands in the hope of avoiding further decline, like Hodgson did.

[Ishmael]

I very much doubt that was Hodgson's intentions...

[themanupstairs]

 

I've always found the loyalty of Liverpool fans enormously endearing—their tendency to give a manager time, to let him build his own side before passing judgement and to assess him on his own terms—in stark contrast to, say, Real Madrid or Schalke fans. There is little reflexive outrage that we didn't get into the CL, or that we lost this or that game. But the flip side of that is this embarrassingly dogmatic dedication to King Kenny, regardless of what the current reality is.

 

 

Like Hodgson?

 

Right. Because Hodgson wasn't obviously driving the side towards his mid-table comfort zone from the second he arrived.

 

Working or not, at least Kenny's aim is to improve the side, not to entrench it where it stands in the hope of avoiding further decline, like Hodgson did.

 

Let me see if I got this right. Hodgson WANTED his Liverpool side in mid-table, so he could avoid further decline? 

[wormy]

Tbf wacko you're a fantastic poster, and a very level-headed Liverpool fan, but I just don't understand that post at all. At least Kenny's aim is to improve the side? So Hodgson was actively aiming to drag Liverpool backwards towards mid-table?

[themanupstairs]

Tbf wacko you're a fantastic poster, and a very level-headed Liverpool fan, but I just don't understand that post at all. At least Kenny's aim is to improve the side? So Hodgson was actively aiming to drag Liverpool backwards towards mid-table?

 

For what it's worth, I reckon Hodgson is actually a better manager than Dalgleech.

[loki679]

Pretty sure Hodgson could have improved things a bit if you'd given him £100m.

[Tooj]

Tbf wacko you're a fantastic poster, and a very level-headed Liverpool fan, but I just don't understand that post at all. At least Kenny's aim is to improve the side? So Hodgson was actively aiming to drag Liverpool backwards towards mid-table?

 

For what it's worth, I reckon Hodgson is actually a better manager than Dalgleech.

 

I think he is. However Dalglish is clearly a better fit for Liverpool.

[Ishmael]

Tbf wacko you're a fantastic poster, and a very level-headed Liverpool fan, but I just don't understand that post at all. At least Kenny's aim is to improve the side? So Hodgson was actively aiming to drag Liverpool backwards towards mid-table?

 

For what it's worth, I reckon Hodgson is actually a better manager than Dalgleech.

 

I think he is. However Dalglish is clearly a better fit for Liverpool.

 

Agreed.

[Beren]

One thing I liked about Liverpool was they gave their managers time, but thought Hodgson got a rough ride personally - fans never seemed quite onside, and he wasn't given much time (and that's coming from a Newcastle fan ). Very talented manager IMO. Ah well, wasn't meant to be. He's doing just fine now

[gbandit]

I liked your post Wacko, it was exactly what most on the outside wanted to hear from Liverpool and haven't heard enough. Can I ask whether you think Dalglish can deliver CL football for you? not necessarily this season but next? Also, what do you think the balance is between him and Comolli on signing players? I think many will forget about the Suarez and Liverpool mistakes this season at least by the beginning of the next season but it was still a sham and will have caused long-term damage below the surface

[wacko]

Tbf wacko you're a fantastic poster, and a very level-headed Liverpool fan, but I just don't understand that post at all. At least Kenny's aim is to improve the side? So Hodgson was actively aiming to drag Liverpool backwards towards mid-table?

 

It wasn't his explicit aim, but it was clearly where he was going. A side that has European aspirations simply has to play possession football (it took Ferguson a very long time to realise that), whereas Hodgson was taking us away from that. He took a tactically sophisticated and fairly skillful side and set about turning it into a bunch of typically English clodhoppers.

 

Intentional or not, the obvious place for such a side is not in the CL spots, and even if they did manage it, they'd never get anywhere.

 

Hodgson is all about (and very good at) building a side that's hard to beat. This is a very different thing to building a side to win. It's negative, destructive. To win, a side has to be positive, constructive.

 

We had enough of negative football under Houllier. It just doesn't work for clubs that aspire to the top because your opponents intend to play the same, negative football against you. To be a top side, you have to be able to go out there to win games, not just to not lose them. If you settle for the latter, mediocrity shall be your fate. That wasn't acceptable to us.

[JH]

Don't really see a lot of difference between Hodgson and KKK, except the latter gets his points from the 'bigger clubs' which makes him look a better manager than he actually is.

[summerof69]

Would they do that?

 

 

 

Well, apparently the real reason DR Manhattan, was banned was because he posted something they didn't like on another site

 

 

http://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=287363.0

[Nobody]

Don't really see a lot of difference between Hodgson and KKK, except the latter gets his points from the 'bigger clubs' which makes him look a better manager than he actually is.

Very much this. Wacko could just as well have been describing KKK in his last post.

Liverpool today is very much a hard working team that's good at forcing errors and then exploit them. Except for the racist cunt, there's not a lot of flair in their team.

[wormy]

Don't really see a lot of difference between Hodgson and KKK, except the latter gets his points from the 'bigger clubs' which makes him look a better manager than he actually is.

Very much this. Wacko could just as well have been describing KKK in his last post.

Liverpool today is very much a hard working team that's good at forcing errors and then exploit them. Except for the racist cunt, there's not a lot of flair in their team.

 

Not much I can add to that. I don't see how people were pissed at Hodgson yet class KKK as very much taking them in a completely different direction. Just can't see it.

[Si]

Would they do that?

 

 

 

Well, apparently the real reason DR Manhattan, was banned was because he posted something they didn't like on another site

 

 

http://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=287363.0

 

 

That place is unreal.

[Taylor Swift]

Don't really see a lot of difference between Hodgson and KKK, except the latter gets his points from the 'bigger clubs' which makes him look a better manager than he actually is.

 

Tbf, they play good football today but they just can't score for shit.

[wacko]

Don't really see a lot of difference between Hodgson and KKK, except the latter gets his points from the 'bigger clubs' which makes him look a better manager than he actually is.

Very much this. Wacko could just as well have been describing KKK in his last post.

Liverpool today is very much a hard working team that's good at forcing errors and then exploit them. Except for the racist cunt, there's not a lot of flair in their team.

 

Not much I can add to that. I don't see how people were pissed at Hodgson yet class KKK as very much taking them in a completely different direction. Just can't see it.

 

We've hardly gone from strength to strength under Kenny, but let's be fair: he did win the Carling Cup as opposed to crashing out at the first hurdle to Northampton fucking Town.

 

Obviously, the tens of millions Kenny has spent must have helped, despite how he's wasted a lot of that, but all the comparisons of Kenny's and Roy's records are bunk. Of the 13 games Hodgson won at Liverpool, four of them were against Mickey Mouse sides in Europa League, FFS.

 

Here's a very good analysis. Long story short, Kenny isn't setting any records (he's doing about as well as Houllier), but Hodgson was utter shit.

 

Hodgson is very good at managing small expectations; awful at dealing with any more than that. Throughout his career in major leagues, no matter whether he’s at a big club or a small one, he wins around 33% of league matches; great for a small club, terrible for a big one.

 

To be clear, I don't think Kenny is doing a particularly good job, but he certainly isn't doing a really shitty one like Hodgson.

[loki679]

No amount of whinging will be bringing him back either, so don't bother,it'll only single you out for special attention.

 

You do not want to come to the attention of the scouse gestapo  :frantic:

[alpal78]

Tbf wacko you're a fantastic poster, and a very level-headed Liverpool fan, but I just don't understand that post at all. At least Kenny's aim is to improve the side? So Hodgson was actively aiming to drag Liverpool backwards towards mid-table?

 

It wasn't his explicit aim, but it was clearly where he was going. A side that has European aspirations simply has to play possession football (it took Ferguson a very long time to realise that), whereas Hodgson was taking us away from that. He took a tactically sophisticated and fairly skillful side and set about turning it into a bunch of typically English clodhoppers.

 

Intentional or not, the obvious place for such a side is not in the CL spots, and even if they did manage it, they'd never get anywhere.

 

Hodgson is all about (and very good at) building a side that's hard to beat. This is a very different thing to building a side to win. It's negative, destructive. To win, a side has to be positive, constructive.

 

We had enough of negative football under Houllier. It just doesn't work for clubs that aspire to the top because your opponents intend to play the same, negative football against you. To be a top side, you have to be able to go out there to win games, not just to not lose them. If you settle for the latter, mediocrity shall be your fate. That wasn't acceptable to us.

 

Wacko I don't quite agree wit the distinction betwee KD and Hodgson. To me KD is pretty defensive too as reflected in his purchase of players like Carroll, Henderson and to a lesser extent Adams who would fit more into the mould of clodhoppers thank skilfull. Even Downing is more of an English type winger who primarily tries to get crosses in as opposed to more skilful wingers like Nani, Adam Johnson and Walcott.

 

I do agree with ur view though that setting up not to lose only gets you mediocrity and to qualify for CL and challenge at the top end you need to be set up to win. This has been mine (and a few others) observation/criticism of Pardew as well. He is clearly a manager who sets up his team not to lose, hence playing a defender on the wing and limiting the movement of Cabaye from venturing too much forward either to have a pop or even arrive late in the box. Aside from the second half against Sunderland, we've not played to win for quite some time and unless this changes, results will show as we drop off from the business end of the table.

[LFEE]

I see Glen Johnson has reignited the whole handshake affair... Doh!