The Liverpool Thread

[Raconteur]

arrys stuck his nose in saying the yanks only crime was giving rafa 150m to spend

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-1318433/Harry-Redknapp-Hicks-Gilletts-crime-giving-Rafa-Benitez-150m-squander-costly-flops.html?ITO=bookmark-chromeext

 

i wish he'd just fuck off like 

 

Just read that - if I was Hicks & Gillette I'd be on the phone to 'Arry asking him if he wanted to take over from Woy, since he thinks they are doing such a bang up job

[Colos Short and Curlies]

So when's Harry's court appearance?

[Cronky]

arrys stuck his nose in saying the yanks only crime was giving rafa 150m to spend

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-1318433/Harry-Redknapp-Hicks-Gilletts-crime-giving-Rafa-Benitez-150m-squander-costly-flops.html?ITO=bookmark-chromeext

 

i wish he'd just fuck off like 

 

Just read that - if I was Hicks & Gillette I'd be on the phone to 'Arry asking him if he wanted to take over from Woy, since he thinks they are doing such a bang up job

 

It's interesting to hear another point of view though.

 

They ought to have bailed out earlier, when the price would have been higher. I don't know if it was just greed, or whether they simply hadn't understood the situation. Now that the club is deep in debt, it's a buyer's market.

 

It sounds that they were stuck in the model that if you 'invest' in the team, that will eventually increase the value of the club and you will then be able to sell at a profit - the normal pattern of 'investment' in other areas of life.

 

When it comes to players, I think the word 'invest' should be banned. You don't invest, you spend. In the current climate, there's no way you can get a financial return from success on the field, because you have to compete with clubs like Chelsea who are being subsidised. That's aside from the difficulty of guaranteeing success from any group of 11 players.

[Parky]

arrys stuck his nose in saying the yanks only crime was giving rafa 150m to spend

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-1318433/Harry-Redknapp-Hicks-Gilletts-crime-giving-Rafa-Benitez-150m-squander-costly-flops.html?ITO=bookmark-chromeext

 

i wish he'd just fuck off like 

 

Just read that - if I was Hicks & Gillette I'd be on the phone to 'Arry asking him if he wanted to take over from Woy, since he thinks they are doing such a bang up job

 

It's interesting to hear another point of view though.

 

They ought to have bailed out earlier, when the price would have been higher. I don't know if it was just greed, or whether they simply hadn't understood the situation. Now that the club is deep in debt, it's a buyer's market.

 

It sounds that they were stuck in the model that if you 'invest' in the team, that will eventually increase the value of the club and you will then be able to sell at a profit - the normal pattern of 'investment' in other areas of life.

 

When it comes to players, I think the word 'invest' should be banned. You don't invest, you spend. In the current climate, there's no way you can get a financial return from success on the field, because you have to compete with clubs like Chelsea who are being subsidised. That's aside from the difficulty of guaranteeing success from any group of 11 players.

 

Broadly agree with that. The American franchise model and owing an PL club are really two different planets. It's good that more Yanks are coming in cause they will be cluesless as well.

[wacko]

arrys stuck his nose in saying the yanks only crime was giving rafa 150m to spend

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-1318433/Harry-Redknapp-Hicks-Gilletts-crime-giving-Rafa-Benitez-150m-squander-costly-flops.html?ITO=bookmark-chromeext

 

i wish he'd just fuck off like 

 

Just read that - if I was Hicks & Gillette I'd be on the phone to 'Arry asking him if he wanted to take over from Woy, since he thinks they are doing such a bang up job

 

It's interesting to hear another point of view though.

 

They ought to have bailed out earlier, when the price would have been higher. I don't know if it was just greed, or whether they simply hadn't understood the situation. Now that the club is deep in debt, it's a buyer's market.

 

It sounds that they were stuck in the model that if you 'invest' in the team, that will eventually increase the value of the club and you will then be able to sell at a profit - the normal pattern of 'investment' in other areas of life.

 

When it comes to players, I think the word 'invest' should be banned. You don't invest, you spend. In the current climate, there's no way you can get a financial return from success on the field, because you have to compete with clubs like Chelsea who are being subsidised. That's aside from the difficulty of guaranteeing success from any group of 11 players.

 

I think their plan was to borrow the money to buy the club, have the club pay the interest and perhaps some of the debt, and then sell the club on at a big profit. At about a third of the price of Man Utd, they probably thought they were getting a bargain.

 

Then the financial crisis hit, and there was no more cheap credit. The parallels to Man Utd are pretty strong (pre-takeover profits were about one third that of Man Utd's, the debt is about a third of theirs, too), so I can see the same thing happening to Glazer, but three times bigger.

[Dokko]

Can't see a court allowing H&G being £144m down from this tbh, not when they don't want to sell. Be fuking hilarious if they do lose that amount, that will teach foreign investors trying to make a quick buck out of the Premiership.

 

 

 

 

[Parky]

Can't see a court allowing H&G being £144m down from this tbh, not when they don't want to sell. Be fuking hilarious if they do lose that amount, that will teach foreign investors trying to make a quick buck out of the Premiership.

 

 

 

 

 

Indeed. It will stand out as a beacon of a lesson to other carpetbaggers.

[cubaricho]

Another reason to hate Liverpool - they are now owned by the group that also owns my least favorite baseball team.

[UV]

Back to Woy, it seems the long suffering Liverpool fans on RAWK have had enough after 7 league games of long suffering (though to be fair some are willing to give him up to 8). He just doesn't understand the Liverpool way it seems.

 

http://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=264227.msg7500158#msg7500158

 

Frankly i'll be cheering everton on, the sooner roy gets the boot the better.

[Dokko]

Back to Woy, it seems the long suffering Liverpool fans on RAWK have had enough after 7 league games of long suffering (though to be fair some are willing to give him up to 8). He just doesn't understand the Liverpool way it seems.

 

http://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=264227.msg7500158#msg7500158

 

Frankly i'll be cheering everton on, the sooner roy gets the boot the better.

 

Now they've a new owner, Woy is too small for them lol.

 

 

[Benwell Lad]

I always thought that when our boat was rocking severely with ownership problems, fan unrest, etc, that when their problems came home to roost they would be much worse.

Everyone has known their financial predicament but it's like the world was in denial because it was the mighty Liverpool.

Quite a few others will follow and I wouldn't rule out clubs like  ManU and Real Madrid eventually going the same way.

In the future well managed clubs who have not been used to dominating may come to the fore and world football could look very different.

[Guest Mucky01]

Back to Woy, it seems the long suffering Liverpool fans on RAWK have had enough after 7 league games of long suffering (though to be fair some are willing to give him up to 8). He just doesn't understand the Liverpool way it seems.

 

http://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=264227.msg7500158#msg7500158

 

Frankly i'll be cheering everton on, the sooner roy gets the boot the better.

 

oh yeh, the ‘Liverpool way’, are FIFA going to scrap the back pass rule, so LFC can win things again?

[wacko]

I always thought that when our boat was rocking severely with ownership problems, fan unrest, etc, that when their problems came home to roost they would be much worse.

Everyone has known their financial predicament but it's like the world was in denial because it was the mighty Liverpool.

Quite a few others will follow and I wouldn't rule out clubs like  ManU and Real Madrid eventually going the same way.

In the future well managed clubs who have not been used to dominating may come to the fore and world football could look very different.

 

We're not in a "financial predicament". Our dear American owners are. The club itself is a viable business, and usually made a profit before the Yanks tried to make it pay their loan interest.

[Parky]

Back to Woy, it seems the long suffering Liverpool fans on RAWK have had enough after 7 league games of long suffering (though to be fair some are willing to give him up to 8). He just doesn't understand the Liverpool way it seems.

 

http://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=264227.msg7500158#msg7500158

 

Frankly i'll be cheering everton on, the sooner roy gets the boot the better.

 

Now they've a new owner, Woy is too small for them lol.

 

 

 

I have a feeling the fun is really about to start. So far it's only been an appetiser.

[Parky]

I always thought that when our boat was rocking severely with ownership problems, fan unrest, etc, that when their problems came home to roost they would be much worse.

Everyone has known their financial predicament but it's like the world was in denial because it was the mighty Liverpool.

Quite a few others will follow and I wouldn't rule out clubs like  ManU and Real Madrid eventually going the same way.

In the future well managed clubs who have not been used to dominating may come to the fore and world football could look very different.

 

We're not in a "financial predicament". Our dear American owners are. The club itself is a viable business, and usually made a profit before the Yanks tried to make it pay their loan interest.

 

Actually this kind of leveraged buyout whre the club basically pays for it's own sale should be outlawed.

[Exiled in Texas]

Won't need to outlaw it as soon a couple of guys are going to be the poster children of what happens when things go wrong.

 

It's like buying a house so you can rent it out and have the rent pay for the mortgage (thereby getting a free house). But when the interest rates go up, and you can't cover the mortgage payments, then you loose the house.

 

H&G are about to find out that the foreclosure signs are out, and that all the bank cares about is getting back they money that they lent.

[Fenham Mag]

That guy from some Liverpool fanzine who calls Tom Hicks , Thomas Hicks gets right on my tits.

[wacko]

I always thought that when our boat was rocking severely with ownership problems, fan unrest, etc, that when their problems came home to roost they would be much worse.

Everyone has known their financial predicament but it's like the world was in denial because it was the mighty Liverpool.

Quite a few others will follow and I wouldn't rule out clubs like  ManU and Real Madrid eventually going the same way.

In the future well managed clubs who have not been used to dominating may come to the fore and world football could look very different.

 

We're not in a "financial predicament". Our dear American owners are. The club itself is a viable business, and usually made a profit before the Yanks tried to make it pay their loan interest.

 

Actually this kind of leveraged buyout whre the club basically pays for it's own sale should be outlawed.

 

I agree. We were lucky to the extent that our board blocked the Yanks from putting the debt on the club, like Glazer has done at Man Utd.

 

Personally, I despise this private equity make-the-company-buy-itself-for-you model in any form. That's probably because nobody will lent me half a billion quid to buy a company that can then pay for its own purchase, leaving me sitting on a huge pile of cash I did nothing to deserve.

 

Won't need to outlaw it as soon a couple of guys are going to be the poster children of what happens when things go wrong.

 

It's like buying a house so you can rent it out and have the rent pay for the mortgage (thereby getting a free house). But when the interest rates go up, and you can't cover the mortgage payments, then you loose the house.

 

H&G are about to find out that the foreclosure signs are out, and that all the bank cares about is getting back they money that they lent.

 

Agreed. It's exactly the same as buy-to-rent. I'm not sure that what is happening at LFC will deter anyone, though. They all think they're smarter than the last guy who tried it.

 

You would hope that UEFA's new rules on club finances will deter such "locusts", but I think you could easily circumvent them by using a holding company to carry the debt. The rules will mostly affect clubs like Chelsea, Man City and Real Madrid that spend far more than they make. There are ways round that, too: where the club has an owner, like at CFC and Man City, he or she can simply give the club some revenue-generating asset (e.g. a CDO) to fund their titillating exploits.

[Parky]

Sooner or later money will ruin everything in this world.

[quayside]

Sooner or later money will ruin everything in this world.

 

Well lets dream of a world without it...but sadly wherever there is a "brand" and a "revenue stream" there will be a gathering of cun*ts trying to exploit it.

 

Going back to some of the earlier posts - Wacko has posted some very balanced and sane stuff on here but my understanding is that Hicks and Gillett did effectively put the debt on the club's balance sheet (and therefore made it a club liability). I had thought that initially H and G had undertaken that the debt would never be "club" debt and iirc Rick Parry left or was made to leave because of his objections to the breaching of that promise.  If I'm wrong please correct me  - and that comment is a general one for anyone who knows anything about this, and not just aimed at Parky and Wacko.

 

 

[brummie]

Sooner or later money will ruin everything in this world.

 

That's beautiful, Parky.

[madras]

Sooner or later money will ruin everything in this world.

 

Well lets dream of a world without it...but sadly wherever there is a "brand" and a "revenue stream" there will be a gathering of cun*ts trying to exploit it.

 

Going back to some of the earlier posts - Wacko has posted some very balanced and sane stuff on here but my understanding is that Hicks and Gillett did effectively put the debt on the club's balance sheet (and therefore made it a club liability). I had thought that initially H and G had undertaken that the debt would never be "club" debt and iirc Rick Parry left or was made to leave because of his objections to the breaching of that promise.  If I'm wrong please correct me  - and that comment is a general one for anyone who knows anything about this, and not just aimed at Parky and Wacko.

 

 

to be fair the first officially organised football team, sheffield fc was formed in order to make money from the cricket pitch in winter.

[Exiled in Texas]

I really should know more about Tom Hicks, seeing as I live in Texas where he owns the Dallas Stars NHL Franchise (and until just recently the Texas Rangers baseball team.  He recently sold the Rangers for over $500M, but the franchise was in Chapter 11 bankruptcy which protects the company from creditors while it attempts to reorganise into a viable entity.

 

Aug 12 - Major League Baseball owners unanimously approved the sale of the Rangers to an investment group led by Nolan Ryan and Chuck Greenberg on Thursday, marking the end of a months-long struggle to take control of the club. Ryan will remain team president while Greenberg becomes the managing partner and CEO of a group that also includes pipeline billionaire Ray Davis and XTO Energy founder Bob Simpson.

 

"It's hard to comprehend that that is behind us because it dominated our lives so much, in that there were so many twists and turns during the process," said Ryan, the Hall of Fame pitcher and Texas icon.

 

The group initially agreed to buy the team from Tom Hicks in January. But a messy bankruptcy case ensued and Ryan and Greenberg, a sports attorney from Pittsburgh, ultimately had to win a bidding war with Dallas Mavericks owner Mark Cuban to secure the franchise.

 

Ryan and Greenberg won with a bid valued at $590 million, including paying more than $200 million to unsecured creditors — including A-Rod, who is owed $24.9 million in deferred compensation six years after his trade to the New York Yankees.

 

Creditors will receive $75 million from the team in the bankruptcy plan, but the judge has said they can sue other entities of Hicks Sports Group, which defaulted on about $525 million in loans last year. Hicks is co-owner of the Liverpool football club, which is for sale, but the London sports team is not part of Hicks Sports Group and is safe from creditors in the Rangers' bankruptcy case.

 

The rumors in TX are that Hicks is still relatively broke (probably less than 100 mil ), and would like to sell the Dallas Stars as well.

[Guest gggg]

Have I seriously just read twitchy Arry blaming a manager for Liverpools financial mess. The fucking irony of it.

 

That couldn't possibly happen when he's involved though as he keeps telling everyone. Way to shit on your own defence.

[NG32]

I really should know more about Tom Hicks, seeing as I live in Texas where he owns the Dallas Stars NHL Franchise (and until just recently the Texas Rangers baseball team.  He recently sold the Rangers for over $500M, but the franchise was in Chapter 11 bankruptcy which protects the company from creditors while it attempts to reorganise into a viable entity.

 

Aug 12 - Major League Baseball owners unanimously approved the sale of the Rangers to an investment group led by Nolan Ryan and Chuck Greenberg on Thursday, marking the end of a months-long struggle to take control of the club. Ryan will remain team president while Greenberg becomes the managing partner and CEO of a group that also includes pipeline billionaire Ray Davis and XTO Energy founder Bob Simpson.

 

"It's hard to comprehend that that is behind us because it dominated our lives so much, in that there were so many twists and turns during the process," said Ryan, the Hall of Fame pitcher and Texas icon.

 

The group initially agreed to buy the team from Tom Hicks in January. But a messy bankruptcy case ensued and Ryan and Greenberg, a sports attorney from Pittsburgh, ultimately had to win a bidding war with Dallas Mavericks owner Mark Cuban to secure the franchise.

 

Ryan and Greenberg won with a bid valued at $590 million, including paying more than $200 million to unsecured creditors including A-Rod, who is owed $24.9 million in deferred compensation six years after his trade to the New York Yankees.

 

Creditors will receive $75 million from the team in the bankruptcy plan, but the judge has said they can sue other entities of Hicks Sports Group, which defaulted on about $525 million in loans last year. Hicks is co-owner of the Liverpool football club, which is for sale, but the London sports team is not part of Hicks Sports Group and is safe from creditors in the Rangers' bankruptcy case.

 

The rumors in TX are that Hicks is still relatively broke (probably less than 100 mil ), and would like to sell the Dallas Stars as well.

 

Oh,  didn't realise this tit owned the Dallas Stars.