Dr Venkman Posted December 11, 2011 Share Posted December 11, 2011 In what business can you turn down a profit of 20mil? Madness not too. I don't know about you, but I like going to the match to cheer on good players, rather than celebrate the year's profitability. Nah mate i agree. Of course i want to see the best at our club all im saying is in no other business would a profit like that be turned down. We arent big enough nor strong enough to say no...that is the worry, but if it does happen then i accept it. Move on. 25mil is the least i'd be happy with though. Sorry this is nothing to do with being 'big enough or strong enough' it's a point of stategy and ours is very clear when it comes to selling profitable players. Indeed. The only way we get 'big or strong enough' is keeping our best players and adding to them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minhosa Posted December 11, 2011 Share Posted December 11, 2011 In what business can you turn down a profit of 20mil? Madness not too. I don't know about you, but I like going to the match to cheer on good players, rather than celebrate the year's profitability. Nah mate i agree. Of course i want to see the best at our club all im saying is in no other business would a profit like that be turned down. We arent big enough nor strong enough to say no...that is the worry, but if it does happen then i accept it. Move on. 25mil is the least i'd be happy with though. Sorry this is nothing to do with being 'big enough or strong enough' it's a point of stategy and ours is very clear when it comes to selling profitable players. Indeed. The only way we get 'big or strong enough' is keeping our best players and adding to them. Yup. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledGeordie Posted December 11, 2011 Share Posted December 11, 2011 I have faith in Carr finding good players and its great to sell players for a massive profit but the problem is Ashley isn't interested in re-investing that money in the team, full stop end of story. A club like ours will always be vulnerable to bids for our top players but where does it stop? We can't simply sell someone as soon as they start doing well in the premier league because we'll never move forward. Someone mentioned on here recently about how Spurs have progressed with the sales of the likes of Berbatov but it's also been pointed out that that money has gone straight back into the side. Assuming Tiote is soled in the summer for 25m, when you throw in sky money, season ticket sales and the fact that the Carroll money has never really been fully spent we should be looking to spend 35-40m. But it won't happen under this regime. I'm all for bringing to an end the days of fat cat players at our club sitting around doing nowt and I think the club has done well there but Ashley simply doesn't have the interest in the club, it's progression or care what the fans think. He's slowly clawing back his money and in the mean time using it as an advertising tool. Ok I've gone off on a tangent a bit but as far as I'm concerned Pardew and the players are doing fantastically but the rug will always be pulled from underneath us with this regime. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtype Posted December 11, 2011 Share Posted December 11, 2011 Most of that is probably true, but it's the only regime we've got so might as well live with it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sifu Posted December 11, 2011 Share Posted December 11, 2011 Still clinging onto hope that we'll have Tiote starting for us next season. Just thinking that we did give him a 6 year contract so could yet stay? I'm possibly clutching at straws here considering Ashley's history. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted December 11, 2011 Share Posted December 11, 2011 Keep reading about this faith in Carr to find us new great players for a pittance. Who exactly has he plucked from relative obscurity apart from Tiote? French international and Champions League regular Hatem Ben Arfa? French international and league winner Yohan Cabaye? Demba Ba, who scored Premier League goals freely for West Ham the season prior? Injury-prone Sylvain Marveaux, who was on the verge of signing for Liverpool? Gabriel Obertan, signed from arguably the biggest club in the world? Italian international Davide Santon, signed from Inter Milan? Even Tiote himself was an Ivory Coast international and played in the World Cup before we signed him. Carr is obviously part of a scouting and recruitment team that has commendably picked up a couple of real bargains since we returned to the Premier League, but how much of that is purely down to the budget we're working with, negotiating early and/or making a good impression with players in contractual disputes? Tiote apart I'm not sure where people get this idea that we're able to dig up previously 'unknown' talents for the first team at will. We're just as likely to sign dross as we've ever been (think Perch, Campbell, Ireland, Kuqi and arguably Gosling and Elliot - all brought in purely because we saw an opportunity on the cheap), and no less likely than any of the other teams in the Premier League. The only difference is these days everyone knows they didn't cost much so the expectation is lower to start with. If the club had as much faith in Carr as they'd have us believe, they'd let him look at players that command more than £5m. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minhosa Posted December 11, 2011 Share Posted December 11, 2011 Still clinging onto hope that we'll have Tiote starting for us next season. Just thinking that we did give him a 6 year contract so could yet stay? I'm possibly clutching at straws here considering Ashley's history. Indeed - the contract extension was a value maximiser. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alberto2005 Posted December 11, 2011 Share Posted December 11, 2011 Keep reading about this faith in Carr to find us new great players for a pittance. Who exactly has he plucked from relative obscurity apart from Tiote? French international and Champions League regular Hatem Ben Arfa? French international and league winner Yohan Cabaye? Demba Ba, who scored Premier League goals freely for West Ham the season prior? Injury-prone Sylvain Marveaux, who was on the verge of signing for Liverpool? Gabriel Obertan, signed from arguably the biggest club in the world? Italian international Davide Santon, signed from Inter Milan? Even Tiote himself was an Ivory Coast international and played in the World Cup before we signed him. Carr is obviously part of a scouting and recruitment team that has commendably picked up a couple of real bargains since we returned to the Premier League, but how much of that is purely down to the budget we're working with, negotiating early and/or making a good impression with players in contractual disputes? Tiote apart I'm not sure where people get this idea that we're able to dig up previously 'unknown' talents for the first team at will. We're just as likely to sign dross as we've ever been, and no less likely than any of the other teams in the Premier League. The only difference is these days everyone knows they didn't cost much so the expectation is lower to start with. If the club had as much faith in Carr as they'd have us believe, they'd let him look at players that would command more than £5m. Tiote and Cabaye cost 8m combined, they're probably worth 35m combined in reality so it's pretty impressive. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sifu Posted December 11, 2011 Share Posted December 11, 2011 Still clinging onto hope that we'll have Tiote starting for us next season. Just thinking that we did give him a 6 year contract so could yet stay? I'm possibly clutching at straws here considering Ashley's history. Indeed - the contract extension was a value maximiser. I guess so..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
garth Posted December 11, 2011 Share Posted December 11, 2011 Where are all the rumours coming from? that we going to sell Tiote in January. I'll believe it when they actually do sell him until then it's nothing but newspaper gossip. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
80 Posted December 11, 2011 Share Posted December 11, 2011 I have faith in Carr finding good players and its great to sell players for a massive profit but the problem is Ashley isn't interested in re-investing that money in the team, full stop end of story. A club like ours will always be vulnerable to bids for our top players but where does it stop? We can't simply sell someone as soon as they start doing well in the premier league because we'll never move forward. Someone mentioned on here recently about how Spurs have progressed with the sales of the likes of Berbatov but it's also been pointed out that that money has gone straight back into the side. Assuming Tiote is soled in the summer for 25m, when you throw in sky money, season ticket sales and the fact that the Carroll money has never really been fully spent we should be looking to spend 35-40m. But it won't happen under this regime. I'm all for bringing to an end the days of fat cat players at our club sitting around doing nowt and I think the club has done well there but Ashley simply doesn't have the interest in the club, it's progression or care what the fans think. He's slowly clawing back his money and in the mean time using it as an advertising tool. Ok I've gone off on a tangent a bit but as far as I'm concerned Pardew and the players are doing fantastically but the rug will always be pulled from underneath us with this regime. Dunno why I'm doing this... but slowly? Really? Seems like a handsome return at a strong pace. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
80 Posted December 11, 2011 Share Posted December 11, 2011 Keep reading about this faith in Carr to find us new great players for a pittance. Who exactly has he plucked from relative obscurity apart from Tiote? French international and Champions League regular Hatem Ben Arfa? French international and league winner Yohan Cabaye? Demba Ba, who scored Premier League goals freely for West Ham the season prior? Injury-prone Sylvain Marveaux, who was on the verge of signing for Liverpool? Gabriel Obertan, signed from arguably the biggest club in the world? Italian international Davide Santon, signed from Inter Milan? Even Tiote himself was an Ivory Coast international and played in the World Cup before we signed him. Carr is obviously part of a scouting and recruitment team that has commendably picked up a couple of real bargains since we returned to the Premier League, but how much of that is purely down to the budget we're working with, negotiating early and/or making a good impression with players in contractual disputes? Tiote apart I'm not sure where people get this idea that we're able to dig up previously 'unknown' talents for the first team at will. We're just as likely to sign dross as we've ever been (think Perch, Campbell, Ireland, Kuqi and arguably Gosling and Elliot - all brought in purely because we saw an opportunity on the cheap), and no less likely than any of the other teams in the Premier League. The only difference is these days everyone knows they didn't cost much so the expectation is lower to start with. If the club had as much faith in Carr as they'd have us believe, they'd let him look at players that command more than £5m. Yes, but... I suppose what a lot of people mean by 'unknown' is more 'unknown availability to us'. Working within these tight and in some ways reassuring restraints, somehow or other we keep picking up decent stuff which tend to more than make up for the crap ones, who we can discount as 'bought for their (shit) market worth'. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thomas Posted December 11, 2011 Share Posted December 11, 2011 I have faith in Carr finding good players and its great to sell players for a massive profit but the problem is Ashley isn't interested in re-investing that money in the team, full stop end of story. A club like ours will always be vulnerable to bids for our top players but where does it stop? We can't simply sell someone as soon as they start doing well in the premier league because we'll never move forward. Someone mentioned on here recently about how Spurs have progressed with the sales of the likes of Berbatov but it's also been pointed out that that money has gone straight back into the side. Assuming Tiote is soled in the summer for 25m, when you throw in sky money, season ticket sales and the fact that the Carroll money has never really been fully spent we should be looking to spend 35-40m. But it won't happen under this regime. I'm all for bringing to an end the days of fat cat players at our club sitting around doing nowt and I think the club has done well there but Ashley simply doesn't have the interest in the club, it's progression or care what the fans think. He's slowly clawing back his money and in the mean time using it as an advertising tool. Ok I've gone off on a tangent a bit but as far as I'm concerned Pardew and the players are doing fantastically but the rug will always be pulled from underneath us with this regime. Dunno why I'm doing this... but slowly? Really? Seems like a handsome return at a strong pace. Not sure you'd be able to sell too many investors on the idea that plunking down 200m and getting 20m back five years later qualifies as a handsome return at a strong pace. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledGeordie Posted December 11, 2011 Share Posted December 11, 2011 Dunno why I'm doing this... but slowly? Really? Seems like a handsome return at a strong pace Good point! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted December 11, 2011 Share Posted December 11, 2011 Keep reading about this faith in Carr to find us new great players for a pittance. Who exactly has he plucked from relative obscurity apart from Tiote? French international and Champions League regular Hatem Ben Arfa? French international and league winner Yohan Cabaye? Demba Ba, who scored Premier League goals freely for West Ham the season prior? Injury-prone Sylvain Marveaux, who was on the verge of signing for Liverpool? Gabriel Obertan, signed from arguably the biggest club in the world? Italian international Davide Santon, signed from Inter Milan? Even Tiote himself was an Ivory Coast international and played in the World Cup before we signed him. Carr is obviously part of a scouting and recruitment team that has commendably picked up a couple of real bargains since we returned to the Premier League, but how much of that is purely down to the budget we're working with, negotiating early and/or making a good impression with players in contractual disputes? Tiote apart I'm not sure where people get this idea that we're able to dig up previously 'unknown' talents for the first team at will. We're just as likely to sign dross as we've ever been (think Perch, Campbell, Ireland, Kuqi and arguably Gosling and Elliot - all brought in purely because we saw an opportunity on the cheap), and no less likely than any of the other teams in the Premier League. The only difference is these days everyone knows they didn't cost much so the expectation is lower to start with. If the club had as much faith in Carr as they'd have us believe, they'd let him look at players that command more than £5m. Yes, but... I suppose what a lot of people mean by 'unknown' is more 'unknown availability to us'. Working within these tight and in some ways reassuring restraints, somehow or other we keep picking up decent stuff which tend to more than make up for the crap ones, who we can discount as 'bought for their (shit) market worth'. I'm just not sure what's so revolutionary about trying to get value for money. Sure, we sometimes fucked this up in the past (particularly during the Souness era) but we've always brought in good players and bad. As has every team in the league - how much are Hoilett, Samba 'worth' for example? Playing for the team bottom of the league at present. The only difference is that selling the players that do come good and not then investing the fees back into the squad just creates a massive pressure on the scouting and negotating team, not to mention the manager. The cornerstone of our fantastic defence this season and arguably the club's best player at present was a £10m signing on high wages. Ashley's regime has successfully spread this notion that spending more than about £5m automatically equals bad, every time, when it's simply not the case. If we want to go anywhere, at some point the current strategy (as I see it) has to change. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledGeordie Posted December 11, 2011 Share Posted December 11, 2011 The only difference is that selling the players that do come good and not then investing the fees back into the squad just creates a massive pressure on the scouting and negotating team, not to mention the manager. The cornerstone of our fantastic defence this season and arguably the club's best player at present was a £10m signing on high wages. Ashley's regime has successfully spread this notion that spending more than about £5m automatically equals bad, every time, when it's simply not the case. If we want to go anywhere, at some point the current strategy has to change. Spot on. This is kind of what I was getting at, you've just put it better Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
80 Posted December 11, 2011 Share Posted December 11, 2011 I have faith in Carr finding good players and its great to sell players for a massive profit but the problem is Ashley isn't interested in re-investing that money in the team, full stop end of story. A club like ours will always be vulnerable to bids for our top players but where does it stop? We can't simply sell someone as soon as they start doing well in the premier league because we'll never move forward. Someone mentioned on here recently about how Spurs have progressed with the sales of the likes of Berbatov but it's also been pointed out that that money has gone straight back into the side. Assuming Tiote is soled in the summer for 25m, when you throw in sky money, season ticket sales and the fact that the Carroll money has never really been fully spent we should be looking to spend 35-40m. But it won't happen under this regime. I'm all for bringing to an end the days of fat cat players at our club sitting around doing nowt and I think the club has done well there but Ashley simply doesn't have the interest in the club, it's progression or care what the fans think. He's slowly clawing back his money and in the mean time using it as an advertising tool. Ok I've gone off on a tangent a bit but as far as I'm concerned Pardew and the players are doing fantastically but the rug will always be pulled from underneath us with this regime. Dunno why I'm doing this... but slowly? Really? Seems like a handsome return at a strong pace. Not sure you'd be able to sell too many investors on the idea that plunking down 200m and getting 20m back five years later qualifies as a handsome return at a strong pace. £130m - any more and the time delay is a product of his own incompetence in getting the club relegated. Don't forget also that if he chose to sell the club he'd get a lump sum of... well, maybe £130m? Maybe more? We'll have to see. Would clear a lot of what he plunked, at least. You see most people don't buy/invest in large businesses in the belief that it should turn them a personal profit which quickly shatters the money they paid to own it in the first place - they hope it's resale value will be as large or larger than their investment, which covers their backs, and take as much money out as they can while owning it in the mean time. If you manage to take so much out in the mean time that you wipe out your initial outlay, while still being able to sell, you've probably made yourself a fucking good investment. Anyway, this is a Tiote thread... just wanted to air the point which is often forgotten that there's nothing slow about the returns Ashley is now making, and so you'd have to wonder why he'd want to sell any time soon. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
80 Posted December 11, 2011 Share Posted December 11, 2011 Keep reading about this faith in Carr to find us new great players for a pittance. Who exactly has he plucked from relative obscurity apart from Tiote? French international and Champions League regular Hatem Ben Arfa? French international and league winner Yohan Cabaye? Demba Ba, who scored Premier League goals freely for West Ham the season prior? Injury-prone Sylvain Marveaux, who was on the verge of signing for Liverpool? Gabriel Obertan, signed from arguably the biggest club in the world? Italian international Davide Santon, signed from Inter Milan? Even Tiote himself was an Ivory Coast international and played in the World Cup before we signed him. Carr is obviously part of a scouting and recruitment team that has commendably picked up a couple of real bargains since we returned to the Premier League, but how much of that is purely down to the budget we're working with, negotiating early and/or making a good impression with players in contractual disputes? Tiote apart I'm not sure where people get this idea that we're able to dig up previously 'unknown' talents for the first team at will. We're just as likely to sign dross as we've ever been (think Perch, Campbell, Ireland, Kuqi and arguably Gosling and Elliot - all brought in purely because we saw an opportunity on the cheap), and no less likely than any of the other teams in the Premier League. The only difference is these days everyone knows they didn't cost much so the expectation is lower to start with. If the club had as much faith in Carr as they'd have us believe, they'd let him look at players that command more than £5m. Yes, but... I suppose what a lot of people mean by 'unknown' is more 'unknown availability to us'. Working within these tight and in some ways reassuring restraints, somehow or other we keep picking up decent stuff which tend to more than make up for the crap ones, who we can discount as 'bought for their (shit) market worth'. I'm just not sure what's so revolutionary about trying to get value for money. Sure, we sometimes fucked this up in the past (particularly during the Souness era) but we've always brought in good players and bad. As has every team in the league - how much are Hoilett, Samba 'worth' for example? Playing for the team bottom of the league at present. The only difference is that selling the players that do come good and not then investing the fees back into the squad just creates a massive pressure on the scouting and negotating team, not to mention the manager. The cornerstone of our fantastic defence this season and arguably the club's best player at present was a £10m signing on high wages. Ashley's regime has successfully spread this notion that spending more than about £5m automatically equals bad, every time, when it's simply not the case. If we want to go anywhere, at some point what I believe is the current strategy has to change. I think that just highlights how staid and stupid a lot of the (English?) footballing world is. I don't disagree with any of what you say. As you're implicitly suggesting, anyone could have found about Cabaye's release clause, but at the severe risk of sounding like Ozziemandias, they didn't. It's just that we did it even less than most people for the best part of a decade so it feels even stranger for us. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted December 11, 2011 Share Posted December 11, 2011 Cabaye was a brilliant coup, there's no doubt about that. I want us to build on signings like that though rather than simply look at how much money it will make us and assume that we can just repeat that kind of coup over and over, all the while progressing on the pitch. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
80 Posted December 11, 2011 Share Posted December 11, 2011 Cabaye was a brilliant coup, there's no doubt about that. I want us to build on signings like that though rather than simply look at how much money it will make us and assume that we can just repeat that kind of coup over and over, all the while progressing on the pitch. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
binnsy Posted December 12, 2011 Share Posted December 12, 2011 my mate who works at the airport (god i sound like i should be on RTG) saw Tiote today when he flew back into the country and had a little chat with him and Tiote says he has had the all clear and should be back for the next game. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted December 12, 2011 Share Posted December 12, 2011 my mate who works at the airport (god i sound like i should be on RTG) saw Tiote today when he flew back into the country and had a little chat with him and Tiote says he has had the all clear and should be back for the next game. Was the "all clear" from the witch doctor? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tooj Posted December 12, 2011 Share Posted December 12, 2011 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ObiChrisKenobi Posted December 12, 2011 Share Posted December 12, 2011 I saw the Witch Doctor and this is what he said. OO-E-OO-A-A- all clear, Tiote, Mate. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wullie Posted December 12, 2011 Share Posted December 12, 2011 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now