BrettNUFC Posted June 22, 2011 Share Posted June 22, 2011 Yep, in goalkeeping parlance the "shirt is Jonas's to lose". Still no idea how good Marveaux will be, I would introduce him gradually. HBA will need the same treatment as well I guess. In a 442 I agree, but if its a 433 or 4231, which is how's its looking, he doesnt fit quite fit in in my opinion. If its a case of tactical flexibility then he still serves little purpose as you'd hope that we won't be looking adjust our main formation too often and even when we do, the likes of marveuax/ben arfa and Ferguson will all look to do a job that Jonas does. There is no discernible quality other than perhaps work rate that Jonas has over those mentioned players. Unfortunately. Are you seriously putting Ferguson ahead of Jonas...what does Ferguson bring to the table that Jonas doesn't apart from a young age? No, I'm not. I'm saying that he is one of 3 players who can play in Jonas' position. If we already have 3 players who can provisionally play in a role that is increasingly looking like a redundant one then why keep him on those merits alone, Nevermind wage issues. For what its worth I didn't offer my opinion on Ferguson but from what Ive see, I think he has the potential to be as good if not better than Jonas. So Jonas should be moved on the basis of, we have signed Marveaux (a player few of us have seen and has a record of injuries), we have HBA (fantastic reputation around Europe but recovering from a broken leg and not sure how things have turned out) and also Ferguson (handful of hit and miss performances towards the end of the season). These 3 players attribute to why Jonas needs moved on and removed from our first 11...i'm not seeing the logic here... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanshithispantz Posted June 22, 2011 Share Posted June 22, 2011 For all we know Marveaux could be another Routlege, and Jonas is quite clearly a much better player than Ferguson going into next season. We look a lot better with him in the squad than we do withought him. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris_R Posted June 22, 2011 Share Posted June 22, 2011 Must keep Jonas. Simple as that. We're looking to bring pace and skill into our team, he's our only current player who has that. If we sold him, it's a step back in what we're looking to achieve with the team. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Posted June 22, 2011 Share Posted June 22, 2011 Ben Arfa has it in larger quantities. As does Marveaux by the looks of things. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted June 22, 2011 Share Posted June 22, 2011 Ben Arfa has it in larger quantities. As does Marveaux by the looks of things. It is possible to have more than one or two skilful players in a squad like. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShearMagic Posted June 22, 2011 Share Posted June 22, 2011 In response to me, when I asked if there was anything in the rumours: MsiDouglas Mark Douglas @ @shearmagic909 He's not on the list. Not looking to shift him. But if someone comes in with a good offer... Well, you never know Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fredbob Posted June 22, 2011 Share Posted June 22, 2011 Yep, in goalkeeping parlance the "shirt is Jonas's to lose". Still no idea how good Marveaux will be, I would introduce him gradually. HBA will need the same treatment as well I guess. In a 442 I agree, but if its a 433 or 4231, which is how's its looking, he doesnt fit quite fit in in my opinion. If its a case of tactical flexibility then he still serves little purpose as you'd hope that we won't be looking adjust our main formation too often and even when we do, the likes of marveuax/ben arfa and Ferguson will all look to do a job that Jonas does. There is no discernible quality other than perhaps work rate that Jonas has over those mentioned players. Unfortunately. Are you seriously putting Ferguson ahead of Jonas...what does Ferguson bring to the table that Jonas doesn't apart from a young age? No, I'm not. I'm saying that he is one of 3 players who can play in Jonas' position. If we already have 3 players who can provisionally play in a role that is increasingly looking like a redundant one then why keep him on those merits alone, Nevermind wage issues. For what its worth I didn't offer my opinion on Ferguson but from what Ive see, I think he has the potential to be as good if not better than Jonas. So Jonas should be moved on the basis of, we have signed Marveaux (a player few of us have seen and has a record of injuries), we have HBA (fantastic reputation around Europe but recovering from a broken leg and not sure how things have turned out) and also Ferguson (handful of hit and miss performances towards the end of the season). These 3 players attribute to why Jonas needs moved on and removed from our first 11...i'm not seeing the logic here... I can't really articulate it any better than the 2nd line in the first paragraph. The point is that we may not know what they can do but the club do. The club, who see these players day in day out will back there own judgement, they won't be sat there thinking, 'hmmm Ben arfa may not be the same player, marveuax may be a flop and Ferguson is only young, we better keep him just in case' Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrettNUFC Posted June 22, 2011 Share Posted June 22, 2011 The club can't know for sure if Marveaux will be a success or a flop, it's a free gamble, the club will still be unsure if HBA will get back to what he was and the club can't say for sure Ferguson will fulfill his potential, in Jonas we know what we are getting and until someone comes along and proves they have the required class for the prem to be in our starting 11 i see no reason to remove Jonas out of the equation. If we had signed Charlie instead of Marveaux i could see why Jonas would be eased out because we know what Charlie brings to the table. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fredbob Posted June 22, 2011 Share Posted June 22, 2011 The club can't know for sure if Marveaux will be a success or a flop, it's a free gamble, the club will still be unsure if HBA will get back to what he was and the club can't say for sure Ferguson will fulfill his potential, in Jonas we know what we are getting and until someone comes along and proves they have the required class for the prem to be in our starting 11 i see no reason to remove Jonas out of the equation. If we had signed Charlie instead of Marveaux i could see why Jonas would be eased out because we know what Charlie brings to the table. Ok, still not getting the point about him only being able to play in what is looking to be a redundant position. Agree to disagree. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrettNUFC Posted June 22, 2011 Share Posted June 22, 2011 The club can't know for sure if Marveaux will be a success or a flop, it's a free gamble, the club will still be unsure if HBA will get back to what he was and the club can't say for sure Ferguson will fulfill his potential, in Jonas we know what we are getting and until someone comes along and proves they have the required class for the prem to be in our starting 11 i see no reason to remove Jonas out of the equation. If we had signed Charlie instead of Marveaux i could see why Jonas would be eased out because we know what Charlie brings to the table. Ok, still not getting the point about him only being able to play in what is looking to be a redundant position. Agree to disagree. Yes apart from the fact you seem to think Jonas can only play Left Midfield and no other position which is slighly confusing because he is a fairly versatile midfielder in that regards. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted June 22, 2011 Share Posted June 22, 2011 In response to me, when I asked if there was anything in the rumours: MsiDouglas Mark Douglas @ @shearmagic909 He's not on the list. Not looking to shift him. But if someone comes in with a good offer... Well, you never know This tweet agrees with what I want to happen, so I choose to believe it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fredbob Posted June 22, 2011 Share Posted June 22, 2011 The club can't know for sure if Marveaux will be a success or a flop, it's a free gamble, the club will still be unsure if HBA will get back to what he was and the club can't say for sure Ferguson will fulfill his potential, in Jonas we know what we are getting and until someone comes along and proves they have the required class for the prem to be in our starting 11 i see no reason to remove Jonas out of the equation. If we had signed Charlie instead of Marveaux i could see why Jonas would be eased out because we know what Charlie brings to the table. Ok, still not getting the point about him only being able to play in what is looking to be a redundant position. Agree to disagree. Yes apart from the fact you seem to think Jonas can only play Left Midfield and no other position which is slighly confusing because he is a fairly versatile midfielder in that regards. Nothing confusing about it, its his most effective role and he's not even directly influential in the role either (very few key passes not too many assists or goals), his value is in the directness of his play, his dribbling opens up space for both Enrique and barton, the opposition CM are drawn into him when he cuts in opening up space for our rw which has allowed barton to influence a lot of games as he has more time and space. You have to think what's required of the players in the new formations - the front 3 are gonna have to finish and create and the CM are gonna have to maintain and manouever possession as efficiently as possible. Jonas does neither of those things, I just doesn't see a dribbling CM ever being effective, unless they're exceptional of course. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest johnson293 Posted June 22, 2011 Share Posted June 22, 2011 The club can't know for sure if Marveaux will be a success or a flop, it's a free gamble, the club will still be unsure if HBA will get back to what he was and the club can't say for sure Ferguson will fulfill his potential, in Jonas we know what we are getting and until someone comes along and proves they have the required class for the prem to be in our starting 11 i see no reason to remove Jonas out of the equation. If we had signed Charlie instead of Marveaux i could see why Jonas would be eased out because we know what Charlie brings to the table. Ok, still not getting the point about him only being able to play in what is looking to be a redundant position. Agree to disagree. Yes apart from the fact you seem to think Jonas can only play Left Midfield and no other position which is slighly confusing because he is a fairly versatile midfielder in that regards. Agree with this - Jonas is right footed and was actually a right sided player when we signed him wasn't he? Sure he got shunted to the left as we already had Milner playing on the right at the time. However, over time he formed a decent link up with Jose and just remained on the left. But he almost always brings it back onto his right for crossing/shooting. Also, Argentina played him at Right Back in the world cup, didn't they? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
toontownman Posted June 22, 2011 Share Posted June 22, 2011 I think Pardews deafening silence over Jonas confirms a couple of things, a) He has learnt from his past mistakes about stating which players will be staying b) shows he has little control on who leaves the club and he knows it c) in contrast to b shows that everyone has a price at the club Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
toontownman Posted June 22, 2011 Share Posted June 22, 2011 The club can't know for sure if Marveaux will be a success or a flop, it's a free gamble, the club will still be unsure if HBA will get back to what he was and the club can't say for sure Ferguson will fulfill his potential, in Jonas we know what we are getting and until someone comes along and proves they have the required class for the prem to be in our starting 11 i see no reason to remove Jonas out of the equation. If we had signed Charlie instead of Marveaux i could see why Jonas would be eased out because we know what Charlie brings to the table. Ok, still not getting the point about him only being able to play in what is looking to be a redundant position. Agree to disagree. Yes apart from the fact you seem to think Jonas can only play Left Midfield and no other position which is slighly confusing because he is a fairly versatile midfielder in that regards. Agree with this - Jonas is right footed and was actually a right sided player when we signed him wasn't he? Sure he got shunted to the left as we already had Milner playing on the right at the time. However, over time he formed a decent link up with Jose and just remained on the left. But he almost always brings it back onto his right for crossing/shooting. Also, Argentina played him at Right Back in the world cup, didn't they? Yep, that is why I am confused as to why we might want to shift him, he is pretty versatile and like Marveaux can play just as happily on the Right or Left. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Roger Kint Posted June 22, 2011 Share Posted June 22, 2011 Not sure why people would be confused if there was any truth in them wanting to get rid. He has 2 years left on his deal, if they feel he will need to take a pay cut to extend it its hardly rocket science they will listen to offers like with Nolan just in case Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ash Posted June 22, 2011 Share Posted June 22, 2011 I think Pardews deafening silence over Jonas confirms a couple of things, a) He has learnt from his past mistakes about stating which players will be staying b) shows he has little control on who leaves the club and he knows it c) in contrast to b shows that everyone has a price at the club Or he doesn't need to comment on every player/rumour? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BottledDog Posted June 22, 2011 Share Posted June 22, 2011 I think Pardews deafening silence over Jonas confirms a couple of things, a) He has learnt from his past mistakes about stating which players will be staying b) shows he has little control on who leaves the club and he knows it c) in contrast to b shows that everyone has a price at the club Or he doesn't need to comment on every player/rumour? Never more than a rumour was it? Douglas has stated that Jonas is not on the list and the player want's to stay. Of course that means nothing if an offer comes in that exceeds his worth to us, but that goes for any player at any club (whether or not a manager has said previously that he'd want to keep them). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted June 22, 2011 Share Posted June 22, 2011 I think Pardews deafening silence over Jonas confirms a couple of things, a) He has learnt from his past mistakes about stating which players will be staying b) shows he has little control on who leaves the club and he knows it c) in contrast to b shows that everyone has a price at the club Sorry, that's bollocks. He's hardly going to comment on every press rumour. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
maze Posted June 22, 2011 Share Posted June 22, 2011 Same as I wrote in the Colo thread, I'm indifferent to Jonas. While I can appreciate his work ethics, I find him inconsistent. As long as we can find someone better, and that should not be a huge problem, he can go. Every player that comes in has to get some time adapting to the EPL, Newcastle United, and the new surroundings. I believe Jonas is more "replacable" than some on here thinks. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Logic Posted June 22, 2011 Share Posted June 22, 2011 Same as I wrote in the Colo thread, I'm indifferent to Jonas. While I can appreciate his work ethics, I find him inconsistent. As long as we can find someone better, and that should not be a huge problem, he can go. Every player that comes in has to get some time adapting to the EPL, Newcastle United, and the new surroundings. I believe Jonas is more "replacable" than some on here thinks. Indeed, pretty much any winger should be capable of carrying the ball. Hopefully we'll get one that can also spot a pass, go past a man and some much needed final product. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Antec Posted June 22, 2011 Share Posted June 22, 2011 If we play with one up front next season then all of the midfielders will need to chip in with goals, can't see where Jonas would fit in if that is the case Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
morpeth mag Posted June 22, 2011 Share Posted June 22, 2011 Hope he stays - but he won't be as good without Enrique to link with. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToonImms Posted June 22, 2011 Share Posted June 22, 2011 I have moaned about Jonas and Nolan all season, its more a case of squad depth that I find worrying. So I guess aslong as they are replaced there shouldn't be any real problem. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest johnson293 Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 From Twitter: elgalgojonas jonas gutierrez buen dia, nublado en newcastle. Good morning, cloudy day in newcastle. 8 minutes ago Is he in the right city??? Looking glorious outside with Blue Skies, from our office!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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