Alan Pardew

[timnufc22]

 

Great reply.

 

You're arguing a point which is 2 years out of date.  We were relegated and had to cut costs and that's behind us now.  Yes, we still have the debt but that debt is supposed to be an interest free loan from the owner who we are told has no intention of taking any money out of the club, which is a lie anyway as he already has taken money out.

 

We're now in a situation where we have cut our costs and have started on a recovery and we need to invest to sustain the recovery, not cut costs.

 

 

This is the most reasonable argument on that side.

 

The question is where should the balance be. The problem, and where football is different to other businesses, is that it's very difficult to equate investment with return.

 

In manufacturing, I know if I invest enough to make 100 more things, I get a certain profit on those things. Football has no such guarantees.

 

Do you agree that it looks like Ashley does not really care where we finish, as long as its not the bottom 3? That it looks likely the club is not being ran with progression on the field on mind, instead to keep things ticking over with PL status and reducing the wage bill until a buyer comes in?

 

I think he would like to achieve whatever success he can within the limits he has now decided on. So yes, he only wants success if he can do it quite cheaply.

 

Whether it has anything to do with selling I'm not sure, I just think he has decided he wants to limit the amount he has to subsidise us by. I think it's unlikely he will find a buyer in the near future - if he does 20 or 30 million here or there won't make any difference to them anyway.

 

So yes, sadly finance does come before footballing progress with him, I can't deny that.

 

And we're not going to get success on the cheap (sensible investment perhaps!), so the club is just standing still as long as he's there. He's an irrisposible owner, just as one is if they let the club go bust too.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

 

Great reply.

 

You're arguing a point which is 2 years out of date.  We were relegated and had to cut costs and that's behind us now.  Yes, we still have the debt but that debt is supposed to be an interest free loan from the owner who we are told has no intention of taking any money out of the club, which is a lie anyway as he already has taken money out.

 

We're now in a situation where we have cut our costs and have started on a recovery and we need to invest to sustain the recovery, not cut costs.

 

 

This is the most reasonable argument on that side.

 

The question is where should the balance be. The problem, and where football is different to other businesses, is that it's very difficult to equate investment with return.

 

In manufacturing, I know if I invest enough to make 100 more things, I get a certain profit on those things. Football has no such guarantees.

 

Do you agree that it looks like Ashley does not really care where we finish, as long as its not the bottom 3? That it looks likely the club is not being ran with progression on the field on mind, instead to keep things ticking over with PL status and reducing the wage bill until a buyer comes in?

 

I think he would like to achieve whatever success he can within the limits he has now decided on. So yes, he only wants success if he can do it quite cheaply.

 

Whether it has anything to do with selling I'm not sure, I just think he has decided he wants to limit the amount he has to subsidise us by. I think it's unlikely he will find a buyer in the near future - if he does 20 or 30 million here or there won't make any difference to them anyway.

 

So yes, sadly finance does come before footballing progress with him, I can't deny that.

 

And we're not going to get success on the cheap (sensible investment perhaps!), so the club is just standing still as long as he's there. He's an irrisposible owner, just as one is if they let the club go bust too.

 

Well, when I say "cheap" I mean acquiring the kind of players we already have. Often for below their market value.

 

I think progress is possible under Ashley, though less likely than if he would spend more. Say we have an usually good season and finish in the top 8, it would only take another couple of decent players to establish us at that level.

 

Yes we are relying on some luck, but there's a lot of that in football if you can't build a Man City-style team.

[timnufc22]

 

Great reply.

 

You're arguing a point which is 2 years out of date.  We were relegated and had to cut costs and that's behind us now.  Yes, we still have the debt but that debt is supposed to be an interest free loan from the owner who we are told has no intention of taking any money out of the club, which is a lie anyway as he already has taken money out.

 

We're now in a situation where we have cut our costs and have started on a recovery and we need to invest to sustain the recovery, not cut costs.

 

 

This is the most reasonable argument on that side.

 

The question is where should the balance be. The problem, and where football is different to other businesses, is that it's very difficult to equate investment with return.

 

In manufacturing, I know if I invest enough to make 100 more things, I get a certain profit on those things. Football has no such guarantees.

 

Do you agree that it looks like Ashley does not really care where we finish, as long as its not the bottom 3? That it looks likely the club is not being ran with progression on the field on mind, instead to keep things ticking over with PL status and reducing the wage bill until a buyer comes in?

 

I think he would like to achieve whatever success he can within the limits he has now decided on. So yes, he only wants success if he can do it quite cheaply.

 

Whether it has anything to do with selling I'm not sure, I just think he has decided he wants to limit the amount he has to subsidise us by. I think it's unlikely he will find a buyer in the near future - if he does 20 or 30 million here or there won't make any difference to them anyway.

 

So yes, sadly finance does come before footballing progress with him, I can't deny that.

 

And we're not going to get success on the cheap (sensible investment perhaps!), so the club is just standing still as long as he's there. He's an irrisposible owner, just as one is if they let the club go bust too.

 

Well, when I say "cheap" I mean acquiring the kind of players we already have. Often for below their market value.

 

I think progress is possible under Ashley, though less likely than if he would spend more. Say we have an usually good season and finish in the top 8, it would only take another couple of decent players to establish us at that level.

 

Yes we are relying on some luck, but there's a lot of that in football if you can't build a Man City-style team.

 

If we're lucky with injuries then aye, we do have some good players like Ba, but if we did finish top 8 then to me its obvious bid for, lets say, Tiote would come in and he'd be sold, and the cycle starts again. The more Ashley & Llambias lie to everyone including players, the more new players will be reluctant to sign for us too. The amount of repect and authority Pardew has will come into question more & more aswell. Its an unnecessary uphill struggle, due to the owner's focus on driving down the wage bill as much as possible and his ego I'd say too.

[Taylor Swift]

This summer is going to kill Ian W

[Dr Venkman]

 

Great reply.

 

You're arguing a point which is 2 years out of date.  We were relegated and had to cut costs and that's behind us now.  Yes, we still have the debt but that debt is supposed to be an interest free loan from the owner who we are told has no intention of taking any money out of the club, which is a lie anyway as he already has taken money out.

 

We're now in a situation where we have cut our costs and have started on a recovery and we need to invest to sustain the recovery, not cut costs.

 

 

This is the most reasonable argument on that side.

 

The question is where should the balance be. The problem, and where football is different to other businesses, is that it's very difficult to equate investment with return.

 

In manufacturing, I know if I invest enough to make 100 more things, I get a certain profit on those things. Football has no such guarantees.

 

Do you agree that it looks like Ashley does not really care where we finish, as long as its not the bottom 3? That it looks likely the club is not being ran with progression on the field on mind, instead to keep things ticking over with PL status and reducing the wage bill until a buyer comes in?

 

I think he would like to achieve whatever success he can within the limits he has now decided on. So yes, he only wants success if he can do it quite cheaply.

 

Whether it has anything to do with selling I'm not sure, I just think he has decided he wants to limit the amount he has to subsidise us by. I think it's unlikely he will find a buyer in the near future - if he does 20 or 30 million here or there won't make any difference to them anyway.

 

So yes, sadly finance does come before footballing progress with him, I can't deny that.

 

And we're not going to get success on the cheap (sensible investment perhaps!), so the club is just standing still as long as he's there. He's an irrisposible owner, just as one is if they let the club go bust too.

 

Well, when I say "cheap" I mean acquiring the kind of players we already have. Often for below their market value.

 

I think progress is possible under Ashley, though less likely than if he would spend more. Say we have an usually good season and finish in the top 8, it would only take another couple of decent players to establish us at that level.

 

Yes we are relying on some luck, but there's a lot of that in football if you can't build a Man City-style team.

 

he wont do it though, he wont capitalise on a good season despite his lack of investment and planning, just like he wont capitalise on getting 'silly money' for a player we could do with right now. his attitude to finishing 8th would be, how much did that cost us? right, can we do it for 75%?

[AyeDubbleYoo]

This summer is going to kill Ian W

 

 

Nah, I've come to terms with the fact I'm not going to change anyone's opinion. I am coming close to leaving the forum though, but I don't know where I'd get my football chat from.

[Doctor Zaius]

Finishing in the top 8

 

No chance. Our first 11 is probably good enough to mount a challenge for a top 8 place. However its a squad game, and our squad is nowhere near the standard required. As it stands, it only takes one injury to Ba (the man that faileda medical at  Stoke) and we're fucked like.

[mrmojorisin75]

wonder if they think vuckic and ferguson etc. will just suddenly set the world on fire a la carroll last season

 

happens all the time that like (in FM)

[Foluwashola]

Finishing in the top 8

 

No chance. Our first 11 is probably good enough to mount a challenge for a top 8 place. However its a squad game, and our squad is nowhere near the standard required. As it stands, it only takes one injury to Ba (the man that faileda medical at  Stoke) and we're fucked like.

 

Some of our fans' lack of awareness of this fact is staggering. The idea going into the window - with us having a small squad to begin with - was to hold onto our best players and make a few quality signings.

 

It has transpired, however, that Ashley would prefer to sell before bringing in suitable replacements, leaving our squad in a similar, if not worse, state than the beginning of last season.

 

We can only hope that Ashley demonstrates some semblance of footballing knowledge in this final month of the window.

[timnufc22]

 

Great reply.

 

You're arguing a point which is 2 years out of date.  We were relegated and had to cut costs and that's behind us now.  Yes, we still have the debt but that debt is supposed to be an interest free loan from the owner who we are told has no intention of taking any money out of the club, which is a lie anyway as he already has taken money out.

 

We're now in a situation where we have cut our costs and have started on a recovery and we need to invest to sustain the recovery, not cut costs.

 

 

This is the most reasonable argument on that side.

 

The question is where should the balance be. The problem, and where football is different to other businesses, is that it's very difficult to equate investment with return.

 

In manufacturing, I know if I invest enough to make 100 more things, I get a certain profit on those things. Football has no such guarantees.

 

Do you agree that it looks like Ashley does not really care where we finish, as long as its not the bottom 3? That it looks likely the club is not being ran with progression on the field on mind, instead to keep things ticking over with PL status and reducing the wage bill until a buyer comes in?

 

I think he would like to achieve whatever success he can within the limits he has now decided on. So yes, he only wants success if he can do it quite cheaply.

 

Whether it has anything to do with selling I'm not sure, I just think he has decided he wants to limit the amount he has to subsidise us by. I think it's unlikely he will find a buyer in the near future - if he does 20 or 30 million here or there won't make any difference to them anyway.

 

So yes, sadly finance does come before footballing progress with him, I can't deny that.

 

And we're not going to get success on the cheap (sensible investment perhaps!), so the club is just standing still as long as he's there. He's an irrisposible owner, just as one is if they let the club go bust too.

 

Well, when I say "cheap" I mean acquiring the kind of players we already have. Often for below their market value.

 

I think progress is possible under Ashley, though less likely than if he would spend more. Say we have an usually good season and finish in the top 8, it would only take another couple of decent players to establish us at that level.

 

Yes we are relying on some luck, but there's a lot of that in football if you can't build a Man City-style team.

 

he wont do it though, he wont capitalise on a good season despite his lack of investment and planning, just like he wont capitalise on getting 'silly money' for a player we could do with right now. his attitude to finishing 8th would be, how much did that cost us? right, can we do it for 75%?

 

Exactly, what a brilliant chance we have to push the club on this summer after receiving an unexpected 30m on top of the other revenue. Up until now we have not made that push. Meanwhile people are paying good money for season tickets, hoping we can gradually push up the league every year - or thats the natural mindset for a fan anyway - and we are not even attempting to. Like people have said, maybe we will sign some real quality before the window shuts, beef up the squad, we'll see. But Pardew's contradictions implies otherwise.

[Guest icemanblue]

This summer is going to kill Ian W

 

 

Nah, I've come to terms with the fact I'm not going to change anyone's opinion. I am coming close to leaving the forum though, but I don't know where I'd get my football chat from.

 

Champion.

 

You've obviously backed yourself into a corner with your earlier views, so will continue to be contrary for the sake of it.

[Mick]

 

 

Nah, I've come to terms with the fact I'm not going to change anyone's opinion. I am coming close to leaving the forum though, but I don't know where I'd get my football chat from.

 

 

You don't need to do that, we'll educate you yet.

 

[Elliottman]

Be a shame if Ian W left, I think he makes a lot of good points. He is hammered by a lot of the 'Ashley is responsible for the current US cash crisis' group, but I think he's a good poster.

 

It doesnt have to be, your on this side or your on this side, all the time, altough thats what a lot of people on here tend to stick too.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

This summer is going to kill Ian W

 

 

Nah, I've come to terms with the fact I'm not going to change anyone's opinion. I am coming close to leaving the forum though, but I don't know where I'd get my football chat from.

 

Champion.

 

You've obviously backed yourself into a corner with your earlier views, so will continue to be contrary for the sake of it.

 

Ah shaddap.

[Guest Mantis]

Glad the puppet has gone quiet. Everytime he makes a comment about a players future it comes back and bites his patsy Arse. Deadmanwalking

[Pilko]

As appropriate as ever:

 

http://image.guardian.co.uk/sys-images/Football/Pix/gallery/2005/06/09/Pardew1.jpg

[Guest CheickMansour]

Be a shame if Ian W left, I think he makes a lot of good points. He is hammered by a lot of the 'Ashley is responsible for the current US cash crisis' group, but I think he's a good poster.

 

It doesnt have to be, your on this side or your on this side, all the time, altough thats what a lot of people on here tend to stick too.

 

[Dr Venkman]

This summer is going to kill Ian W

 

 

Nah, I've come to terms with the fact I'm not going to change anyone's opinion. I am coming close to leaving the forum though, but I don't know where I'd get my football chat from.

 

Champion.

 

You've obviously backed yourself into a corner with your earlier views, so will continue to be contrary for the sake of it.

 

Inochi, I don't personally think that Ian W's views are that far wrong (or at least a good chunk of them), although he does sometimes blindly stick to them no matter what, but I'm sure that is just to counteract the over-the-top reactions in the other direction.

 

All in all, I'm of the opinion that both Barton and Ashley / Llambias are to blame. Barton for acting like a complete tool, and MA/DL for doing what they did.

 

On the Pardew point, I'm still unsure of what he has actually done wrong in the eyes of supporters really, and whether he is simply "guilty by association". I'm sure he wouldn't have wanted to lose Barton, Nolan, Carroll etc specifically and I believe he doesn't have a say. His job is to pick the team and the odd incoming player, and if I judge him on that, I can't see how he's done such a bad job as some on here would make out.

 

 

 

 

 

if i coud just answer on the pardew point. he's willingly been a part of an operation to cut costs and any semblance of ambition from the club. personally i'd quite like to see us have a go at being as successful as we can, and i dont think top 6 is out of the question. we wont ever try and achieve anything like that under ashley, pardew knows it and took the job on those terms. for that he's as much a money grabbing scumbag as any player you'd care to mention imo.

[Dr Venkman]

Be a shame if Ian W left, I think he makes a lot of good points. He is hammered by a lot of the 'Ashley is responsible for the current US cash crisis' group, but I think he's a good poster.

 

It doesnt have to be, your on this side or your on this side, all the time, altough thats what a lot of people on here tend to stick too.

 

 

yeah ian shouldnt go anywhere, he can actually string a sentence together

[Neil]

Be a shame if Ian W left, I think he makes a lot of good points. He is hammered by a lot of the 'Ashley is responsible for the current US cash crisis' group, but I think he's a good poster.

 

It doesnt have to be, your on this side or your on this side, all the time, altough thats what a lot of people on here tend to stick too.

 

 

That's the only real criticism I can make of this forum. Get the feeling quite a few people are too bothered about trying to appear correct and win an argument which is at the cost of actually debating like an adult, or even someone above the age of 14.

[timnufc22]

This summer is going to kill Ian W

 

 

Nah, I've come to terms with the fact I'm not going to change anyone's opinion. I am coming close to leaving the forum though, but I don't know where I'd get my football chat from.

 

Champion.

 

You've obviously backed yourself into a corner with your earlier views, so will continue to be contrary for the sake of it.

 

Inochi, I don't personally think that Ian W's views are that far wrong (or at least a good chunk of them), although he does sometimes blindly stick to them no matter what, but I'm sure that is just to counteract the over-the-top reactions in the other direction.

 

All in all, I'm of the opinion that both Barton and Ashley / Llambias are to blame. Barton for acting like a complete tool, and MA/DL for doing what they did.

 

On the Pardew point, I'm still unsure of what he has actually done wrong in the eyes of supporters really, and whether he is simply "guilty by association". I'm sure he wouldn't have wanted to lose Barton, Nolan, Carroll etc specifically and I believe he doesn't have a say. His job is to pick the team and the odd incoming player, and if I judge him on that, I can't see how he's done such a bad job as some on here would make out.

 

 

 

 

 

if i coud just answer on the pardew point. he's willingly been a part of an operation to cut costs and any semblance of ambition from the club. personally i'd quite like to see us have a go at being as successful as we can, and i dont think top 6 is out of the question. we wont ever try and achieve anything like that under ashley, pardew knows it and took the job on those terms. for that he's as much a money grabbing scumbag as any player you'd care to mention imo.

 

You're not wrong, except that I do believe he would prefer to have lowered the costs without losing these specific players (i.e. got rid of the likes of Smith).

 

I brought it up on here last night, but it's pretty clear he took the job knowing that he'd have to lower operating costs, but so will any future manager under Ashley, so what's the point in judging him on that? Every other manager we would get would be working under the same conditions.

 

It just seems like you (not specifically you, but some people) may as well just get behind him and support him on the football side of things... which he's actually been pretty good at so far. 

 

Which is why it was quite mis-leading to say every penny of the 35m will be re-invested in the squad.

[Jack Flash]

Ian W leaving would be like when Hughton got sacked.

[Dr Venkman]

This summer is going to kill Ian W

 

 

Nah, I've come to terms with the fact I'm not going to change anyone's opinion. I am coming close to leaving the forum though, but I don't know where I'd get my football chat from.

 

Champion.

 

You've obviously backed yourself into a corner with your earlier views, so will continue to be contrary for the sake of it.

 

Inochi, I don't personally think that Ian W's views are that far wrong (or at least a good chunk of them), although he does sometimes blindly stick to them no matter what, but I'm sure that is just to counteract the over-the-top reactions in the other direction.

 

All in all, I'm of the opinion that both Barton and Ashley / Llambias are to blame. Barton for acting like a complete tool, and MA/DL for doing what they did.

 

On the Pardew point, I'm still unsure of what he has actually done wrong in the eyes of supporters really, and whether he is simply "guilty by association". I'm sure he wouldn't have wanted to lose Barton, Nolan, Carroll etc specifically and I believe he doesn't have a say. His job is to pick the team and the odd incoming player, and if I judge him on that, I can't see how he's done such a bad job as some on here would make out.

 

 

 

 

 

if i coud just answer on the pardew point. he's willingly been a part of an operation to cut costs and any semblance of ambition from the club. personally i'd quite like to see us have a go at being as successful as we can, and i dont think top 6 is out of the question. we wont ever try and achieve anything like that under ashley, pardew knows it and took the job on those terms. for that he's as much a money grabbing scumbag as any player you'd care to mention imo.

 

You're not wrong, except that I do believe he would prefer to have lowered the costs without losing these specific players (i.e. got rid of the likes of Smith).

 

I brought it up on here last night, but it's pretty clear he took the job knowing that he'd have to lower operating costs, but so will any future manager under Ashley, so what's the point in judging him on that? Every other manager we would get would be working under the same conditions.

 

It just seems like you (not specifically you, but some people) may as well just get behind him and support him on the football side of things... which he's actually been pretty good at so far. 

 

first of all i completely support him on the football side of things, just like i supported souness and allardyce. i think he's an utter, utter idiot for making Taylor 1st choice instead of Williamson but that doesnt mean i dont want him to do well.

 

whether he prefers to lower the costs by removing smith or tiote is irrelevant really isnt it, he has no say, and he knows it. i'd even go so far as to state he's here specifically to have no say, his role is 'dont question anything, say what we tell you, pick the team'. in that ashley and derek have made life significantly easier for themselves.

 

i judge him on taking the job on lowering operating costs because it's counter productive for the club, ashley's gambling on our league performance for long term profit and advertising space. that's not the way the club should be run and pardew is a massive part of it, just as any other manager would be if they'd taken the job.

[Dr Venkman]

This summer is going to kill Ian W

 

 

Nah, I've come to terms with the fact I'm not going to change anyone's opinion. I am coming close to leaving the forum though, but I don't know where I'd get my football chat from.

 

Champion.

 

You've obviously backed yourself into a corner with your earlier views, so will continue to be contrary for the sake of it.

 

Inochi, I don't personally think that Ian W's views are that far wrong (or at least a good chunk of them), although he does sometimes blindly stick to them no matter what, but I'm sure that is just to counteract the over-the-top reactions in the other direction.

 

All in all, I'm of the opinion that both Barton and Ashley / Llambias are to blame. Barton for acting like a complete tool, and MA/DL for doing what they did.

 

On the Pardew point, I'm still unsure of what he has actually done wrong in the eyes of supporters really, and whether he is simply "guilty by association". I'm sure he wouldn't have wanted to lose Barton, Nolan, Carroll etc specifically and I believe he doesn't have a say. His job is to pick the team and the odd incoming player, and if I judge him on that, I can't see how he's done such a bad job as some on here would make out.

 

 

 

 

 

if i coud just answer on the pardew point. he's willingly been a part of an operation to cut costs and any semblance of ambition from the club. personally i'd quite like to see us have a go at being as successful as we can, and i dont think top 6 is out of the question. we wont ever try and achieve anything like that under ashley, pardew knows it and took the job on those terms. for that he's as much a money grabbing scumbag as any player you'd care to mention imo.

 

You're not wrong, except that I do believe he would prefer to have lowered the costs without losing these specific players (i.e. got rid of the likes of Smith).

 

I brought it up on here last night, but it's pretty clear he took the job knowing that he'd have to lower operating costs, but so will any future manager under Ashley, so what's the point in judging him on that? Every other manager we would get would be working under the same conditions.

 

It just seems like you (not specifically you, but some people) may as well just get behind him and support him on the football side of things... which he's actually been pretty good at so far. 

 

Which is why it was quite mis-leading to say every penny of the 35m will be re-invested in the squad.

 

from the mouth piece of the club owners that admitted to mis-leading fans, it's no surprise.

 

'no manager reveals the exact truth about what's going on'. certainly not, but only a few club owners are so rotten they end up in court because of it.

[Guest cr4igora]

This summer is going to kill Ian W

 

 

Nah, I've come to terms with the fact I'm not going to change anyone's opinion. I am coming close to leaving the forum though, but I don't know where I'd get my football chat from.

 

Don't do that! You'll never change the opinions of people who are blindly ignorant. People should be able to accept other people's points of view without being abusive towards others (which some tools in here can't seem to achieve*), but don't leave on their sake otherwise they think they win. I joined yesterday? Already seem to disagree with many, despise a few, but importantly; agree with some.

 

 

*Joey Barton in a top-hat, smiley Asian man, kingkerrookiedingdong