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Football's greatest - where does Lionel Messi rank?


Dave

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CL is nowhere near eclipsing the WC in importance in any other way than big clubs getting money from it and not from the WC. It's the biggest club football tournament, but the WC is the biggest football tournament.

 

109 million watched the 2009 CL finale.

700 million watched the 2010 WC finale.

 

 

 

 

On topic though, Messi is no doubt up there. But as mentioned before, he'll probably not go into history Maradona/Pele style before he's performed at a WC, no matter if it's "right" or "wrong". It's pretty much the difference twenty years in the future between "Messi was a great player on one of the greatest Barcelona incarnations in history" and "Messi was a great player and was a major part in bringing the World Cup to Argentina as well as being a major player in one of the greatest Barcelona incarnations in history."

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I'm not sure really, I think he needs to win a world cup before he will be considered up there with most of those. Might have to move away from spain too, those greats often showed there class in more that 1 league...

 

:lol:

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messi is a funny one for me, stats-wise he's already up there with the greats but as has been mentioned he doesn't always seem to have that quality to drag his team through a game single handed, to dominate games when everyone around him is not playing

 

perhaps this is the thing, playing for barca he never HAS to do that 'cause how often to xavi/iniesta/villa/alves all have off days?

 

argentina is the thing, i think if they get a good, competent manager for a fucking change and build their approach around using messi in the right way then i think it'll end up being a moot argument

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Lead Argentina to the WC and he's the greatest to me.

 

 

That's just how it is. He's been better for Barca than Zidane was for Madrid or Juventus.

 

 

However Zidane as a WC winners medal, 2 finals appearances and 3 finals goals. To me, that cements Zidane for me over Messi.

 

That, right there, demonstrates why "must win the World Cup" is a falacious argument for determining the "best player".

 

You're saying that over the course of hundreds of club games Messi is the better player, but over less than a dozen Zidane was better, and therefore Zidane is better overall. It doesn't wash for me.

 

Oh, and as for the "has to leave Barca" line - wasn't all of Pele's (noteworthy) football played in one country? (And don't give me that NASL bullshit either...)

 

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isn't it supposed to be more about how these greats won the world cup "almost single-handedly" (especially in the case of maradona and slightly less so zidane)

 

this is why the world cup is talked about in this discussion, not just the fact they hold a medal for being there al a (fat) ronaldo circa 1994 iirc, but fat ronaldo circa 2002 basically won them that world cup

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If the WC is a barometer to greatness then Klose is one of the greatest number 9s ever.

 

While Cruyff, Eusebio and Best wouldn't even be on the list...

 

(Although why Best is on there I don't know. Some kind of George/Leon joke?)

 

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Lead Argentina to the WC and he's the greatest to me.

 

 

That's just how it is. He's been better for Barca than Zidane was for Madrid or Juventus.

 

 

However Zidane as a WC winners medal, 2 finals appearances and 3 finals goals. To me, that cements Zidane for me over Messi.

 

That, right there, demonstrates why "must win the World Cup" is a falacious argument for determining the "best player".

 

You're saying that over the course of hundreds of club games Messi is the better player, but over less than a dozen Zidane was better, and therefore Zidane is better overall. It doesn't wash for me.

 

Oh, and as for the "has to leave Barca" line - wasn't all of Pele's (noteworthy) football played in one country? (And don't give me that NASL bullshit either...)

 

 

For arguments sake Brazil didn't even have a proper national league until after he retired IIRC

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For someone to score nearly 100 goals in 2 seasons is absolutely phenomenal.

 

In my opinion he is definitely the best player in the world right now and maybe has been the best player in the world but I'm not sure about saying he's one of the all time greats, if this conversation is still going in 4-5 years time then I would believe he is as he is still only 23 years old so he's still young.

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Great player with more to come but hasn't eclipsed Maradona yet as even Argentina's greatest.When he wins a World Cup and/or leagues with different clubs then he can be looked at differently imo.

He's one special talent though.

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Great player with more to come but hasn't eclipsed Maradona yet as even Argentina's greatest.When he wins a World Cup and/or leagues with different clubs then he can be looked at differently imo.

He's one special talent though.

 

This, still needs to win the WC, don't care how you guys feel about it, but in Argentina and rest of the World, World Cup is the biggest achievement and until he's won it or anything major with the national team he won't be even considered for the greatest of all time.

 

Doubt he'll pass Maradona, but will most probably be the best player of this generation when he retires.

 

Zidane & Ronaldo last generation

 

Messi this generation.

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I'm not sure really, I think he needs to win a world cup before he will be considered up there with most of those. Might have to move away from spain too, those greats often showed there class in more that 1 league...

 

:lol:

 

Watcha laughing at psyduck?

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