Twitter nonsense

[MrRaspberryJam]

2 minutes ago, KDT said:

Ashby goes on loan for the season, Livramento is class like, I wonder if he can play left back as well.

 

Aye but I mean what was the point in the Ashby signing? He's 22 in a few month. 

[Shak]

Could be just that what they've seen from Ashby so far hasn't been what they hoped and they want another iron in the fire.

 

Ashby was cheap as fuck anyway, might just have been seen as a decent value buy and someone we expect we'll be able to make a profit on even if he doesn't become a first team player.

[KDT]

6 minutes ago, MrRaspberryJam said:

 

Aye but I mean what was the point in the Ashby signing? He's 22 in a few month. 

22 and played little to no senior football, a loan makes a lot of sense. Livramento is 2 years younger with a full PL season under his belt.

 

We're in a position now where signings don't have to be instant starters, a year on loan in the Championship would be ideal for Ashby.

 

 

Edited June 5, 2023 by KDT

[Rafalove]

Ashby came here presumably to play. West Ham fans have said he has done well when tried at premier league level, and should have had more game time under Moyes.

[MrRaspberryJam]

5 minutes ago, KDT said:

22 and played little to no senior football, a loan makes a lot of sense. Livramento is 2 years younger with a full PL season under his belt.

 

We're in a position now where signings don't have to be instant starters, a year on loan in the Championship would be ideal for Ashby.

 

 

 

 

Yeah I'm not sure if I'm explaining this properly.

 

I assumed at the time Ashby was to be long term successor for Trippier. Kind of defeats the point if we're just going to get Livramento instead, as I assume he'd be ahead of Ashby in the pecking order. Kind of makes the Ashby signing pointless.

[Menace]

Livramento would be absolutely class. Let's get Lavia and KWP/Salisu too.

[The Butcher]

Never got the Ashby signing and I'll be amazed if he's here in a few years.

 

Hardly made the bench this season and did he play more than once for the U23s?

[KDT]

2 minutes ago, MrRaspberryJam said:

 

Yeah I'm not sure if I'm explaining this properly.

 

I assumed at the time Ashby was to be long term successor for Trippier. Kind of defeats the point if we're just going to get Livramento instead, as I assume he'd be ahead of Ashby in the pecking order. Kind of makes the Ashby signing pointless.

 

I suppose things change, this time last year Livramento was at the start of a lengthy injury and not available, now he's back fit and his side have just been relegated. Ashby was brought in for peanuts really, if he had a good season on loan we could in theory sell him for a decent profit or just keep him around and have one of those 'squad' things. Anyway it's probably in this thread for a reason but if they see an opportunity come up regardless of what we already have in that area I think we look at it.

[The College Dropout]

Ashby signing always looked dodgy as owt.

Nowhere near the first team at WHU or us.

 

 

He's the same age as Saka.

 

Saka has played 5x the amount of games for England as Ashby has in Senior football.

[The Prophet]

To be fair, not all career arcs are identical and there's a line of thought that too much football at a young age can be a bad thing (Tielemans). I don't necessarily agree with that, but plenty of players have done well without playing a ton of football at youth level.

[The College Dropout]

2 minutes ago, The Prophet said:

To be fair, not all career arcs are identical and there's a line of thought that too much football at a young age can be a bad thing (Tielemans). I don't necessarily agree with that, but plenty of players have done well without playing a ton of football at youth level.

Name them.

 

I think like 99% of players that have good careers, show something, at some senior level by 22.

[Kid Icarus]

Vardy, Les Ferdinand, Ian Wright, just off the top of my head.

 

You can wait to find out if you're right in a couple of years. 

 

 

[The Prophet]

Even our own Trippier hasn't played a ton of senior football at this age.

 

For what it's worth I'm not saying that regular playing time isn't beneficial at his age, it is. It's just all career arcs a different depending on the player.

[The College Dropout]

5 minutes ago, Kid Icarus said:

Vardy, Les Ferdinand, Ian Wright, just off the top of my head.

 

You can wait to find out if you're right in a couple of years. 

 

 

These are 3 examples over a 40-year period btw. You can add Drogba too. Most of these were actually doing bits for non-league sides which earned them league moves. But again we are talking about less than 1%.

 

3 minutes ago, The Prophet said:

Even our own Trippier hasn't played a ton of senior football at this age.

 

For what it's worth I'm not saying that regular playing time isn't beneficial at his age, it is. It's just all career arcs a different depending on the player.

By 22 Trippier had played almost 100 games for Championship clubs. Harrison has 7 senior appearances at any level.

 

The point is the vast majority of players will have shown something, at some senior level by 22. And not doing anything at that level is a genuine concern.

[Kid Icarus]

Just the three most obvious examples that were off the top of my head, there are tons more. Why not just wait and see? He's been here just over 4 months and cost £3m 

 

 

Edited June 5, 2023 by Kid Icarus

[r0cafella]

1 minute ago, Kid Icarus said:

Just the three most obvious examples that were off the top of my head, there are tons more. Why not just wait and see? He's been here just over 4 months

 

 

 

He was also basically free. Super low risk signing. 

[The College Dropout]

1 minute ago, Kid Icarus said:

Just the three most obvious examples that were off the top of my head, there are tons more. Why not just wait and see? He's been here 5 months

This is a football forum. It's to discuss football. We will wait and see. But we are here to talk football. We've got a 22 year-old RB deputising for arguably our best player... and he's barely kicked a pro football. That's worth discussing on this football forum. So yeh.. he's a year older than Livramento, who has had a significant injury but has shown actual ability and potential in senior football. I'd rather take the risk on him as first-team cover and get Ashby some experience elsewhere.

[wormy]

This forum overanalyses the Ashby transfer way too much.

 

The guy was what, a couple million quid? If he succeeds, great. If he doesn't, no biggie.

 

 

Edited June 5, 2023 by wormy

[buzza]

Obviously a loan to a decent championship club would do the world of good.

If he looks quality we keep him, if not sell him on for a profit.

[Kid Icarus]

Just now, The College Dropout said:

This is a football forum. It's to discuss football. We will wait and see. But we are here to talk football. We've got a 22 year-old RB deputising for arguably our best player... and he's barely kicked a pro football. That's worth discussing on this football forum. So yeh.. he's a year older than Livramento, who has had a significant injury but has shown actual ability and potential in senior football. I'd rather take the risk on him as first-team cover and get Ashby some experience elsewhere.

 

I'm not saying that to say don't talk about it though  I'm just saying he's been here 5 minutes and cost barely anything. I don't get how any of it fits into the category of being a genuine concern, even if you're right and it turns out to be a failure. It's essentially a no-risk signing AFAIC, if it doesn't work out we haven't painted ourselves into a corner and can look elsewhere. 

[The College Dropout]

Just now, Kid Icarus said:

 

I'm not saying that to say don't talk about it though  I'm just saying he's been here 5 minutes and cost barely anything. I don't get how any of it fits into the category of being a genuine concern, even if you're right and it turns out to be a failure. It's essentially a no-risk signing AFAIC, if it doesn't work out we haven't painted ourselves into a corner and can look elsewhere. 

Where did I say it would be the end of the world?

 

Now we are in the CL, we need genuine squad depth. People have suggested Ashby is a credible back-up for Trippier. I think that is overly optimistic based on the reasons I've outlined. Hence being happy to sign another RB. You've come swanning in talking about "Ah but there's an example from 1985 of a player being amazing to counter your argument". Like???

 

Yes the Ashby signing is low-risk. But we do actually need a genuine RB option to Trippier.  Interesting to see how Krafth does in pre-season.

 

59 minutes ago, Rafalove said:

Ashby came here presumably to play. West Ham fans have said he has done well at premier league level when tried and should have had more game time under Moyes.

He's played 1 premier league game.

 

 

Yes to Liveramento please.

[Kid Icarus]

1 minute ago, The College Dropout said:

Where did I say it would be the end of the world?

 

Now we are in the CL, we need genuine squad depth. People have suggested Ashby is a credible back-up for Trippier. I think that is overly optimistic based on the reasons I've outlined. Hence being happy to sign another RB. You've come swanning in talking about "Ah but there's an example from 1985 of a player being amazing to counter your argument". Like???

 

Again, they were just the few famous examples off the top of my head. Google it and there are tons of late bloomers in football, that's not even contentious. 

 

Posting about it fairly regularly and calling his lack of game time a 'genuine concern' is what makes me think you're maybe worrying over nothing in the context of it being a 5 month old signing that only cost £3m. Even if you're right it's still no big deal imo. 

[Barnes23]

Think I'm right in saying Livramento can play LB too? Could be a fantastic replacement for Manquillo if so, only concern would be any potential impact of his long-term injury

[The College Dropout]

3 minutes ago, Kid Icarus said:

 

Again, they were just the few famous examples off the top of my head. Google it and there are tons of late bloomers in football, that's not even contentious. 

 

Posting about it fairly regularly and calling his lack of game time a 'genuine concern' is what makes me think you're maybe worrying over nothing in the context of it being a 5 month old signing that only cost £3m. Even if you're right it's still no big deal imo. 

And saying that 99% of players show something in men's football by age 22 is also not contentious. What about that is hard to understand?

 

Well I've told you twice now I'm not overly worried about the lad - I don't know him, I don't care for him - so you can stop replying now.

 

However, we need a genuine backup for Trippier—someone who could start 12-20 games next season for us if needed. So if I'm talking about that, you don't need to reply to me going forward. 

[Kid Icarus]

Wtf