Demba Ba (now retired)

[Cajun]

I guess what grinds my gears is that people make it sound like it's Demba Ba himself who decides our formation. He doesn't, that's Pardew's job. Here's a striker who scored 16 goals in the first half of last season and is on course for doing it again, playing in a team without much fluidity and hardly creating many chances. Playing in his best position he's capable of 30 goals a season feeding of scraps. I happen to believe that gives him some leeway when it comes to requesting Pardew to be played in his best position. I think every player is willing to occasionally play elsewhere if circumstances (injuries, suspensions) dictate it, but why is it OK to ask him to sacrifice his best attributes for half a season, and not ask Cisse to play out wide for a bit until he refinds his goalscoring touch?

 

The real problem here is not Ba or Cisse, it's Pardew's preference of a 4-4-2 formation (see for example his attempt to bring in Carroll last summer) combined with the fact that despite Ba and Cisse both being excellent strikers individually, as a front two pairing they're not very effective/complimentary as has been proven in the past couple of months unfortunately. Now I'll give Pardew some credit for insisting with a Ba/Cisse pairing for as long as he has, because in theory they could be brilliant and score 50 between them in a season and for large parts of that brilliant last season we actually played 4-4-2, were fairly solid and got the results through individual brilliance and lethal finishing of mainly the two above mentioned strikers.

 

At this point though, he needs to analyse the situation and come up with a suitable solution. In the last three matches he’s tried Cisse out wide, which has led to somewhat improved team performances, but not results, and to be fair Cisse is not a wide player at all. I can’t see this being the long term solution, although I personally agree that Ba needs to be playing as a central striker at the moment because of his excellent goalscoring form and Cisse’s lack of it. It will be interesting to see what happens in the January transfer window. The Ba contract situation may force Pardew’s hand of course, but I for one hope he stays and we try our hardest to get the best possible forward in to complement our existing options up top. Whether that will be a 4-4-2 type battering ram target man (Carroll type), a pacey forward capable of playing wide (Remy type?) or maybe even nobody at all will tell us a lot about the current level of ambition of the club and the long term type of football Pardew has in stock. I’ll be honest here, I’m 90% about results and 10% about aesthetics, as I can say hand on heart I quite enjoyed our physical, hard working style of Hughton’s group of lads despite not always being the most beautiful to watch. For our sake though, I hope he gets it right as what he’s tried so far this season clearly isn’t working, and that is not Ba OR Cisse’s fault, it’s a matter of lack of gameplan first and foremost.

 

 

[Guest neesy111]

This discussion also shows we need another striker that's at least capable of scoring 5-10 goals a season just so we can mix it up upfront.  Say a replacement for Leon Best perhaps?

[The College Dropout]

A lot has also changed since our best form last season. Cabaye is missing, Tiote is playing poorly, Jonas looks to have lost his legs,Ben Arfa in and out of the side.

 

It's not as simple as Ba shifting out to the left and suddenly everything is right again, we start defending better and key players magically heal or find form.

 

It's not only that.

 

Our style changed back to the way it was when we were awful in January/February.

 

The philosophy and mentality is dreadful. Exposing individulas in defence, relying heavily on Demba and Hatem in attack. No concept what so ever.

 

I don't know if you've noticed but that's largely how we played last season too. January & Feb yes but also that long unbeaten streak at the start of the season.

 

In our best run of form. Cisse scored & we kept the goals out. We relied on Cisse, Cabaye, HBA & Ba to win us matches. No great possession based style. We didn't blow teams away in general. Scored goals with our fire power. In that run, HBA/Cisse scored about 8 goal of the month contenders between them.

 

 

Biggest problem compared to last season is that our lack of possession & defensive frailties are being exposed. We've never been great on possession, nor had coherent attacking moves. Get the ball to Cabs & HBA, they'll provide for the 2 up top.

[SiLvOR]

Should never have got rid of Best in the first place imo, but that's another point entirely.

[Numbers]

So did he really say Arsenal are a dreamy club or w/e he was supposed to say?

[cp40]

A lot has also changed since our best form last season. Cabaye is missing, Tiote is playing poorly, Jonas looks to have lost his legs,Ben Arfa in and out of the side.

 

It's not as simple as Ba shifting out to the left and suddenly everything is right again, we start defending better and key players magically heal or find form.

 

Yep. Scapegoat. We kept loads of clean sheets last season, this season we haven't. I suppose that's greedy Demba's fault too.

 

Exactly, I just can't work it out.  After the way most of our team have played this season, Ba is is probably the last player we can moan on about.

 

Is  anybody moaning about him?  would the issue be up for discussion if it weren't for his or his agents outbursts. Are people not being realistic in looking at where we are regarding him staying or leaving. Either way we need to improve as a team- hes part of that.

[The College Dropout]

I guess what grinds my gears is that people make it sound like it's Demba Ba himself who decides our formation. He doesn't, that's Pardew's job. Here's a striker who scored 16 goals in the first half of last season and is on course for doing it again, playing in a team without much fluidity and hardly creating many chances. Playing in his best position he's capable of 30 goals a season feeding of scraps. I happen to believe that gives him some leeway when it comes to requesting Pardew to be played in his best position. I think every player is willing to occasionally play elsewhere if circumstances (injuries, suspensions) dictate it, but why is it OK to ask him to sacrifice his best attributes for half a season, and not ask Cisse to play out wide for a bit until he refinds his goalscoring touch?

 

The real problem here is not Ba or Cisse, it's Pardew's preference of a 4-4-2 formation (see for example his attempt to bring in Carroll last summer) combined with the fact that despite Ba and Cisse both being excellent strikers individually, as a front two pairing they're not very effective/complimentary as has been proven in the past couple of months unfortunately. Now I'll give Pardew some credit for insisting with a Ba/Cisse pairing for as long as he has, because in theory they could be brilliant and score 50 between them in a season and for large parts of that brilliant last season we actually played 4-4-2, were fairly solid and got the results through individual brilliance and lethal finishing of mainly the two above mentioned strikers.

 

At this point though, he needs to analyse the situation and come up with a suitable solution. In the last three matches he’s tried Cisse out wide, which has led to somewhat improved team performances, but not results, and to be fair Cisse is not a wide player at all. I can’t see this being the long term solution, although I personally agree that Ba needs to be playing as a central striker at the moment because of his excellent goalscoring form and Cisse’s lack of it. It will be interesting to see what happens in the January transfer window. The Ba contract situation may force Pardew’s hand of course, but I for one hope he stays and we try our hardest to get the best possible forward in to complement our existing options up top. Whether that will be a 4-4-2 type battering ram target man (Carroll type), a pacey forward capable of playing wide (Remy type?) or maybe even nobody at all will tell us a lot about the current level of ambition of the club and the long term type of football Pardew has in stock. I’ll be honest here, I’m 90% about results and 10% about aesthetics, as I can say hand on heart I quite enjoyed our physical, hard working style of Hughton’s group of lads despite not always being the most beautiful to watch. For our sake though, I hope he gets it right as what he’s tried so far this season clearly isn’t working, and that is not Ba OR Cisse’s fault, it’s a matter of lack of gameplan first and foremost.

 

 

Thank you.

[Varadi]

I can't quite understand the sharpening of the pitchforks for Ba on here.  He seems to have become the new bloke to dig and moan at.

 

It's a defence mechanism. It's like getting wind of your lass being about to dump you and deciding to get in first - never liked the bitch anyway!

[Guest icemanblue]

I can't quite understand the sharpening of the pitchforks for Ba on here.  He seems to have become the new bloke to dig and moan at.

 

It's a defence mechanism. It's like getting wind of your lass being about to dump you and deciding to get in first - never liked the bitch anyway!

 

It is.

[Guest neesy111]

I really want to love Demba and want him to stay as he is our best striker since Shearer BUT this stuff off the pitch from his side is an absolute farce and I'm growing sick and tired of it.

 

He's a mercenary, if he signs a new contract then I'll change that opinion.

[steve_69]

So did he really say Arsenal are a dreamy club or w/e he was supposed to say?

 

Ba quotes to Canal +: "I have nothing to say about those speculations [with Arsenal]. Nothing has happened.

 

Ba added: '"The media know Arsenal need another striker and they know about my release clause. They need to make their own mind up about it"

 

Ba to Canal+: 'Arsenal are one of those teams who makes you dream.'

[Skeletor]

Swings and round abouts. Ba was looking terrible in front of goal in the second half of last season, snatching at chances and scored 1 goal. Now it's happening to Cisse. Really they're about the same level although Cisse doesn't have this circus of agents following him around causing trouble.

[Numbers]

 

 

If he doesn't want to be here he should f*** off, Wenger wont let him call the shots though.

 

edit :Double quote and on phone and cba to fix it

[The College Dropout]

Every player (everyone tbh) is a mercenary to some degree. If you could double your wage, no matter where you worked or how much you earned, you would leave.

 

 

This is where I think football fans are a little idiotic. We have players joining us from CL clubs and teams that can win trophies in their homeland. If things where equal, no player would join us from Ajax ffs. Most are here because you get paid more in the PL and it's a better shop window for elite clubs because it's supposedly the toughest league in the world.

 

But I agree, I really believe Pardew when he said 1 or 2 have had their heads turned. Ba & Cabaye for me.

[Dave]

I guess what grinds my gears is that people make it sound like it's Demba Ba himself who decides our formation. He doesn't, that's Pardew's job. Here's a striker who scored 16 goals in the first half of last season and is on course for doing it again, playing in a team without much fluidity and hardly creating many chances. Playing in his best position he's capable of 30 goals a season feeding of scraps. I happen to believe that gives him some leeway when it comes to requesting Pardew to be played in his best position. I think every player is willing to occasionally play elsewhere if circumstances (injuries, suspensions) dictate it, but why is it OK to ask him to sacrifice his best attributes for half a season, and not ask Cisse to play out wide for a bit until he refinds his goalscoring touch?

 

The real problem here is not Ba or Cisse, it's Pardew's preference of a 4-4-2 formation (see for example his attempt to bring in Carroll last summer) combined with the fact that despite Ba and Cisse both being excellent strikers individually, as a front two pairing they're not very effective/complimentary as has been proven in the past couple of months unfortunately. Now I'll give Pardew some credit for insisting with a Ba/Cisse pairing for as long as he has, because in theory they could be brilliant and score 50 between them in a season and for large parts of that brilliant last season we actually played 4-4-2, were fairly solid and got the results through individual brilliance and lethal finishing of mainly the two above mentioned strikers.

 

At this point though, he needs to analyse the situation and come up with a suitable solution. In the last three matches he’s tried Cisse out wide, which has led to somewhat improved team performances, but not results, and to be fair Cisse is not a wide player at all. I can’t see this being the long term solution, although I personally agree that Ba needs to be playing as a central striker at the moment because of his excellent goalscoring form and Cisse’s lack of it. It will be interesting to see what happens in the January transfer window. The Ba contract situation may force Pardew’s hand of course, but I for one hope he stays and we try our hardest to get the best possible forward in to complement our existing options up top. Whether that will be a 4-4-2 type battering ram target man (Carroll type), a pacey forward capable of playing wide (Remy type?) or maybe even nobody at all will tell us a lot about the current level of ambition of the club and the long term type of football Pardew has in stock. I’ll be honest here, I’m 90% about results and 10% about aesthetics, as I can say hand on heart I quite enjoyed our physical, hard working style of Hughton’s group of lads despite not always being the most beautiful to watch. For our sake though, I hope he gets it right as what he’s tried so far this season clearly isn’t working, and that is not Ba OR Cisse’s fault, it’s a matter of lack of gameplan first and foremost.

 

[Beren]

I really want to love Demba and want him to stay as he is our best striker since Shearer BUT this stuff off the pitch from his side is an absolute farce and I'm growing sick and tired of it.

 

He's a mercenary, if he signs a new contract then I'll change that opinion.

 

Does assessing his options make him a mercenary? If he were underperforming/doing a Tevez/refusing to play then I think you'd have a case, but in terms of his job performance, he's been exemplary.

 

It's the management and above that are acting poorly. We don't like his agents from our biased point of view, but in terms of how they're providing options for their client, they're doing well. Especially since the club's management haven't delivered on promises of exciting football/ambition. Not selflessly, obviously, as they are taking a good cut off every transaction.

 

He is responsible for employing at least some of those who purport to represent him, and has not issued any come and get me pleas AFAIK*  - though I'm not sure I'd blame him if he did, at this point. We're a sinking ship with Pardew.

 

* (this latest Arsenal thing sounds like a response to speculation, and he commented that Arsenal are a great club - which is true)

 

I also don't buy in to this 'poor body language' stuff. He has moments of selfishness in his play, but I'd get frustrated with zero support/movement and take things on myself (had I his ability ) too. Especially when he's in the form he is in. He's entitled to take on whatever he wants the way he is playing, and the way Cisse isn't!

 

Those who see him to be a mercenary for this can shortly expect to feel the same about HBA/Krul/Cabaye over the coming year or so, sadly, IMO.

[Dokko]

I guess what grinds my gears is that people make it sound like it's Demba Ba himself who decides our formation. He doesn't, that's Pardew's job. Here's a striker who scored 16 goals in the first half of last season and is on course for doing it again, playing in a team without much fluidity and hardly creating many chances. Playing in his best position he's capable of 30 goals a season feeding of scraps. I happen to believe that gives him some leeway when it comes to requesting Pardew to be played in his best position. I think every player is willing to occasionally play elsewhere if circumstances (injuries, suspensions) dictate it, but why is it OK to ask him to sacrifice his best attributes for half a season, and not ask Cisse to play out wide for a bit until he refinds his goalscoring touch?

 

The real problem here is not Ba or Cisse, it's Pardew's preference of a 4-4-2 formation (see for example his attempt to bring in Carroll last summer) combined with the fact that despite Ba and Cisse both being excellent strikers individually, as a front two pairing they're not very effective/complimentary as has been proven in the past couple of months unfortunately. Now I'll give Pardew some credit for insisting with a Ba/Cisse pairing for as long as he has, because in theory they could be brilliant and score 50 between them in a season and for large parts of that brilliant last season we actually played 4-4-2, were fairly solid and got the results through individual brilliance and lethal finishing of mainly the two above mentioned strikers.

 

At this point though, he needs to analyse the situation and come up with a suitable solution. In the last three matches he’s tried Cisse out wide, which has led to somewhat improved team performances, but not results, and to be fair Cisse is not a wide player at all. I can’t see this being the long term solution, although I personally agree that Ba needs to be playing as a central striker at the moment because of his excellent goalscoring form and Cisse’s lack of it. It will be interesting to see what happens in the January transfer window. The Ba contract situation may force Pardew’s hand of course, but I for one hope he stays and we try our hardest to get the best possible forward in to complement our existing options up top. Whether that will be a 4-4-2 type battering ram target man (Carroll type), a pacey forward capable of playing wide (Remy type?) or maybe even nobody at all will tell us a lot about the current level of ambition of the club and the long term type of football Pardew has in stock. I’ll be honest here, I’m 90% about results and 10% about aesthetics, as I can say hand on heart I quite enjoyed our physical, hard working style of Hughton’s group of lads despite not always being the most beautiful to watch. For our sake though, I hope he gets it right as what he’s tried so far this season clearly isn’t working, and that is not Ba OR Cisse’s fault, it’s a matter of lack of gameplan first and foremost.

 

http://www.vingsstuff.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/peter-griffin1.jpg

[AyeDubbleYoo]

He's definitely a mercenary, but I don't hold it against him really. Not many footballers have actual attachments to their club, sadly.

[Guest neesy111]

Overtook Michael Owen at the weekend in league goals scored for us.

[Beren]

He's definitely a mercenary, but I don't hold it against him really. Not many footballers have actual attachments to their club, sadly.

 

Maybe we have different takes on the connotations of 'mercenary' then which seems like a semantic issue unworthy of discussion (at least on the Football board! GC is always good fun though)

[Fenham Mag]

Overtook Michael Owen at the weekend in league goals scored for us.

 

Shows how poor Owen was for us.

[Guest JS]

If he goes to Arsenal he'll spend time on the bench...We'll see how that goes Demba Bra.

 

Is this a Norwegian pun by any chance?

 

[steve_69]

Looking at the clubs he's been at throughout his career I wouldn't begrudge him the chance to play Champions League football with one of the big four. We also know we don't pay the biggest wages in the league and he's probably looking to earn as much as he can with what will probably be his last big contract of his career.

 

I do, however, get really pissed off when his agents attempt to put pressure on the club to play him in his favoured position while at the same time trying to hawk him out to the highest bidder.  Ba could put a stop to that shit if he wanted to because he employs the people behind it.

 

Good player and i'd like him to stay but not if it means his agents are going to try and orchestrate a move for him every time the window comes around.

[Kanji]

Not this "it would be an honour to see him play for one of the big four" crap again.

[STM]

Worst of it is, none of the "big four" will touch him. He will end up at Liverpool on stupid wages or QPR under dodgy-harry on... stupid wages.