Guest Sir_Frank_Pingle Posted February 22, 2014 Share Posted February 22, 2014 I don't know how representative of general opinion this forum is, but when I read threads like this I do worry about another post-Keegan meltdown, which won't do anyone any good. This will no doubt fall on deaf ears, but can I point out two things - Having an aim of finishing in the top ten means that 10th place is the minimum standard. It doesn't mean that you don't care whether you finish higher. Prioritising the League against the Cups is what every Premiership club and most Championship clubs do. The only difference is that the club acknowledged it when asked a direct question in a fans forum. We already know what Ashley's strategy is, because it was made clear at the start. He won't pay over the odds for established players - he'll go for young players who can be developed or players at the end of their contracts. The club itself will not run at a loss. It's a long-term strategy. I'm not sure how well it will work, but unless you're prepared to pay huge amounts of money, there's no quick way of getting beyond the point we're at at this moment. The boom and bust Freddie Shepherd way is not the better alternative. Not sure most fans are unhappy with our scouting at present or our transfer philosophy, we were 3-4 signings away from fighting for the top 4 in my opinion without the big money signings. The issue is there is now no transfer plan other then to sell for profit and the club in generally has no direction or actual ambition - this is shown clearly by the appointment and sticking with a sub standard manager and back room team. In the most part we have a team of internationals yet a coaching setup sub League 1, we have no identity on the pitch and we are slowly loosing out identity off also. Personally don't agree that its about returning to the boom and bust era of Shepard but atleast showing some controlled ambition on all fronts, starting with a new manager who can mould a team that actually knows what they are doing once they cross that line. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cronky Posted February 22, 2014 Share Posted February 22, 2014 I don't know how representative of general opinion this forum is, but when I read threads like this I do worry about another post-Keegan meltdown, which won't do anyone any good. This will no doubt fall on deaf ears, but can I point out two things - Having an aim of finishing in the top ten means that 10th place is the minimum standard. It doesn't mean that you don't care whether you finish higher. Prioritising the League against the Cups is what every Premiership club and most Championship clubs do. The only difference is that the club acknowledged it when asked a direct question in a fans forum. We already know what Ashley's strategy is, because it was made clear at the start. He won't pay over the odds for established players - he'll go for young players who can be developed or players at the end of their contracts. The club itself will not run at a loss. It's a long-term strategy. I'm not sure how well it will work, but unless you're prepared to pay huge amounts of money, there's no quick way of getting beyond the point we're at at this moment. The boom and bust Freddie Shepherd way is not the better alternative. Not sure most fans are unhappy with our scouting at present or our transfer philosophy, we were 3-4 signings away from fighting for the top 4 in my opinion without the big money signings. The issue is there is now no transfer plan other then to sell for profit and the club in generally has no direction or actual ambition - this is shown clearly by the appointment and sticking with a sub standard manager and back room team. In the most part we have a team of internationals yet a coaching setup sub League 1, we have no identity on the pitch and we are slowly loosing out identity off also. Personally don't agree that its about returning to the boom and bust era of Shepard but atleast showing some controlled ambition on all fronts, starting with a new manager who can mould a team that actually knows what they are doing once they cross that line. I don’t think the club lacks ambition, but they are cautious and pragmatic in their approach. In contrast, the fans of every football club are energised by dreams of glory, and what the club have said does cut against that. No-one dreams of finishing 10th. The trouble with putting a dreamer like Fernandez or Ridsdale in charge is that it will eventually go belly-up, unless you’re something of a bottomless pit of money , like Abramovich. So every club, bar the exceptional, has to have some kind of financial discipline. The problem with Shepherd was that he spent all the club could possibly afford in terms of debt, we got a break and made the CL, but then there was nothing left to push on with. The second season we made the CL places, all we could buy was Bowyer on a free. Then there was the inevitable slip backwards. The aim has to be that if we get that bit of luck and make the top four in the future, we’re in a sufficiently healthy position financially that we can take advantage, and not come to a full stop. Youth development, hitherto neglected, is another part of being in a good financial state when opportunity arises. So in the absence of a Mansour, I’m not yet convinced that Ashley’s general strategy is wrong. He’s made some poor decisions, the latest being Kinnear, but overall I’m prepared to give things a bit longer. I wouldn’t say Pardew is sub-standard incidentally, but that’s another debate. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted February 22, 2014 Share Posted February 22, 2014 Fucking cliché bingo. And from an NUFC supporter too. Embarrassing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doctor Zaius Posted February 22, 2014 Share Posted February 22, 2014 I don't know how representative of general opinion this forum is, but when I read threads like this I do worry about another post-Keegan meltdown, which won't do anyone any good. This will no doubt fall on deaf ears, but can I point out two things - Having an aim of finishing in the top ten means that 10th place is the minimum standard. It doesn't mean that you don't care whether you finish higher. Prioritising the League against the Cups is what every Premiership club and most Championship clubs do. The only difference is that the club acknowledged it when asked a direct question in a fans forum. We already know what Ashley's strategy is, because it was made clear at the start. He won't pay over the odds for established players - he'll go for young players who can be developed or players at the end of their contracts. The club itself will not run at a loss. It's a long-term strategy. I'm not sure how well it will work, but unless you're prepared to pay huge amounts of money, there's no quick way of getting beyond the point we're at at this moment. The boom and bust Freddie Shepherd way is not the better alternative. Not sure most fans are unhappy with our scouting at present or our transfer philosophy, we were 3-4 signings away from fighting for the top 4 in my opinion without the big money signings. The issue is there is now no transfer plan other then to sell for profit and the club in generally has no direction or actual ambition - this is shown clearly by the appointment and sticking with a sub standard manager and back room team. In the most part we have a team of internationals yet a coaching setup sub League 1, we have no identity on the pitch and we are slowly loosing out identity off also. Personally don't agree that its about returning to the boom and bust era of Shepard but atleast showing some controlled ambition on all fronts, starting with a new manager who can mould a team that actually knows what they are doing once they cross that line. I don’t think the club lacks ambition , but they are cautious and pragmatic in their approach. In contrast, the fans of every football club are energised by dreams of glory, and what the club have said does cut against that. No-one dreams of finishing 10th. The trouble with putting a dreamer like Fernandez or Ridsdale in charge is that it will eventually go belly-up, unless you’re something of a bottomless pit of money , like Abramovich. So every club, bar the exceptional, has to have some kind of financial discipline. The problem with Shepherd was that he spent all the club could possibly afford in terms of debt, we got a break and made the CL, but then there was nothing left to push on with. The second season we made the CL places, all we could buy was Bowyer on a free. Then there was the inevitable slip backwards. The aim has to be that if we get that bit of luck and make the top four in the future, we’re in a sufficiently healthy position financially that we can take advantage, and not come to a full stop. Youth development, hitherto neglected, is another part of being in a good financial state when opportunity arises. So in the absence of a Mansour, I’m not yet convinced that Ashley’s general strategy is wrong. He’s made some poor decisions, the latest being Kinnear, but overall I’m prepared to give things a bit longer. I wouldn’t say Pardew is sub-standard incidentally, but that’s another debate. First time ive came in this thread for a while and this is the first thing I see. When will people learn man. :lol: Give things a bit longer, fucking hell. Can't you see he's slowly but surely killing this club? No permanent signings in a year, jobs for his mates, continually selling our prized assets without replacement, people turning away in their absolute droes, no ambition to qualify for Europe, no ambition to finish anywhere of note in the league, no ambition to progress in cups, no fucking ambition to do anything than return his investment and use the club as an advertising vehicle for his shit products. But yeah, lets give things a bit longer eh? As if he hasnt had time to make a go of things in the last 7 year or whatever. It's absolutely ludicrous that people actually think that Ashley still actually has good intentions for the club man, they must have the mindset of a continually battered housewife. You're right about one thing, Pardew is for another debate, but that debate doesnt matter at all, because even if he was to go, he'll only be replaced with another mouthpiece yes man, from the football wilderness, to be used as a tool by the board, who's intention is merely there to stifle expectations and not upset his boss. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NEEJ Posted February 22, 2014 Share Posted February 22, 2014 I don't know how representative of general opinion this forum is, but when I read threads like this I do worry about another post-Keegan meltdown, which won't do anyone any good. This will no doubt fall on deaf ears, but can I point out two things - Having an aim of finishing in the top ten means that 10th place is the minimum standard. It doesn't mean that you don't care whether you finish higher. Prioritising the League against the Cups is what every Premiership club and most Championship clubs do. The only difference is that the club acknowledged it when asked a direct question in a fans forum. We already know what Ashley's strategy is, because it was made clear at the start. He won't pay over the odds for established players - he'll go for young players who can be developed or players at the end of their contracts. The club itself will not run at a loss. It's a long-term strategy. I'm not sure how well it will work, but unless you're prepared to pay huge amounts of money, there's no quick way of getting beyond the point we're at at this moment. The boom and bust Freddie Shepherd way is not the better alternative. Not sure most fans are unhappy with our scouting at present or our transfer philosophy, we were 3-4 signings away from fighting for the top 4 in my opinion without the big money signings. The issue is there is now no transfer plan other then to sell for profit and the club in generally has no direction or actual ambition - this is shown clearly by the appointment and sticking with a sub standard manager and back room team. In the most part we have a team of internationals yet a coaching setup sub League 1, we have no identity on the pitch and we are slowly loosing out identity off also. Personally don't agree that its about returning to the boom and bust era of Shepard but atleast showing some controlled ambition on all fronts, starting with a new manager who can mould a team that actually knows what they are doing once they cross that line. I don’t think the club lacks ambition Absolutely ludicrous opening statement there. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
colinmk Posted February 22, 2014 Share Posted February 22, 2014 Completely disagree with nearly everything Cronky has said, not surprisingly. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incognito Posted February 22, 2014 Share Posted February 22, 2014 It isn't even subtle that all he wants is Premiership survival. The only time he's spent money in the past 18 months is when he shat himself at the thought of Championship football again. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
geordiesteve710 Posted February 22, 2014 Share Posted February 22, 2014 I don't know how representative of general opinion this forum is, but when I read threads like this I do worry about another post-Keegan meltdown, which won't do anyone any good. This will no doubt fall on deaf ears, but can I point out two things - Having an aim of finishing in the top ten means that 10th place is the minimum standard. It doesn't mean that you don't care whether you finish higher. Prioritising the League against the Cups is what every Premiership club and most Championship clubs do. The only difference is that the club acknowledged it when asked a direct question in a fans forum. We already know what Ashley's strategy is, because it was made clear at the start. He won't pay over the odds for established players - he'll go for young players who can be developed or players at the end of their contracts. The club itself will not run at a loss. It's a long-term strategy. I'm not sure how well it will work, but unless you're prepared to pay huge amounts of money, there's no quick way of getting beyond the point we're at at this moment. The boom and bust Freddie Shepherd way is not the better alternative. Not sure most fans are unhappy with our scouting at present or our transfer philosophy, we were 3-4 signings away from fighting for the top 4 in my opinion without the big money signings. The issue is there is now no transfer plan other then to sell for profit and the club in generally has no direction or actual ambition - this is shown clearly by the appointment and sticking with a sub standard manager and back room team. In the most part we have a team of internationals yet a coaching setup sub League 1, we have no identity on the pitch and we are slowly loosing out identity off also. Personally don't agree that its about returning to the boom and bust era of Shepard but atleast showing some controlled ambition on all fronts, starting with a new manager who can mould a team that actually knows what they are doing once they cross that line. I don’t think the club lacks ambition but they are cautious and pragmatic in their approach. In contrast, the fans of every football club are energised by dreams of glory, and what the club have said does cut against that. No-one dreams of finishing 10th. The trouble with putting a dreamer like Fernandez or Ridsdale in charge is that it will eventually go belly-up, unless you’re something of a bottomless pit of money , like Abramovich. So every club, bar the exceptional, has to have some kind of financial discipline. The problem with Shepherd was that he spent all the club could possibly afford in terms of debt, we got a break and made the CL, but then there was nothing left to push on with. The second season we made the CL places, all we could buy was Bowyer on a free. Then there was the inevitable slip backwards. The aim has to be that if we get that bit of luck and make the top four in the future, we’re in a sufficiently healthy position financially that we can take advantage, and not come to a full stop. Youth development, hitherto neglected, is another part of being in a good financial state when opportunity arises. So in the absence of a Mansour, I’m not yet convinced that Ashley’s general strategy is wrong. He’s made some poor decisions, the latest being Kinnear, but overall I’m prepared to give things a bit longer. I wouldn’t say Pardew is sub-standard incidentally, but that’s another debate. ok, I'll bite. Seeing as the club's official position, that it has gone on record with, is that the Europa league is too expensive as you have to invest in a proper squad, so qualifying for that is too risky, and they can't be done with the cups. We're not even gonna have that freakish season where we fluke loads of games and end up in the champions league because to do that we'd have to be knocking about the EL place to start with (and don't forget we're scared of that and go out of our way to avoid it.) I haven't even touched on the whole not developing the commercial side because other sponsors will dilute Sd's exposure thing yet, which looking at the club long term is potentially the biggest tragedy of the lot. So taking all the above into account where on Gods green earth do you see anything resembling ambition? I'm genuinely curious. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted February 22, 2014 Share Posted February 22, 2014 I don’t think the club lacks ambition, but they are cautious and pragmatic in their approach. In contrast, the fans of every football club are energised by dreams of glory, and what the club have said does cut against that. No-one dreams of finishing 10th. The trouble with putting a dreamer like Fernandez or Ridsdale in charge is that it will eventually go belly-up, unless you’re something of a bottomless pit of money , like Abramovich. So every club, bar the exceptional, has to have some kind of financial discipline. The problem with Shepherd was that he spent all the club could possibly afford in terms of debt, we got a break and made the CL, but then there was nothing left to push on with. The second season we made the CL places, all we could buy was Bowyer on a free. Then there was the inevitable slip backwards. The aim has to be that if we get that bit of luck and make the top four in the future, we’re in a sufficiently healthy position financially that we can take advantage, and not come to a full stop. Youth development, hitherto neglected, is another part of being in a good financial state when opportunity arises. So in the absence of a Mansour, I’m not yet convinced that Ashley’s general strategy is wrong. He’s made some poor decisions, the latest being Kinnear, but overall I’m prepared to give things a bit longer. I wouldn’t say Pardew is sub-standard incidentally, but that’s another debate. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interpolic Posted February 22, 2014 Share Posted February 22, 2014 Wow. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LRD Posted February 22, 2014 Share Posted February 22, 2014 Mike Ashley's level of stinginess e.g. spending nowt in a season, and ambition e.g. selling one key player without replacement ---MIDDLE GROUND i.e. spending within our means, investing player sales back into the squad, improving the squad and pushing on gradually and maybe with a bit of luck sneak into a CL spot, aka where most people stand--- Having delusions of grandeur (TOP 4) and spending beyond our means e.g. £200m in one window, do a Leeds, Portsmouth on the way to financial ruin Clearly another one who has brought into Ashley's propaganda. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tollemache Posted February 22, 2014 Share Posted February 22, 2014 I'll just perch myself here and watch for a bit Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest neesy111 Posted February 22, 2014 Share Posted February 22, 2014 I don’t think the club lacks ambition, but they are cautious and pragmatic in their approach. In contrast, the fans of every football club are energised by dreams of glory, and what the club have said does cut against that. No-one dreams of finishing 10th. The trouble with putting a dreamer like Fernandez or Ridsdale in charge is that it will eventually go belly-up, unless you’re something of a bottomless pit of money , like Abramovich. So every club, bar the exceptional, has to have some kind of financial discipline. The problem with Shepherd was that he spent all the club could possibly afford in terms of debt, we got a break and made the CL, but then there was nothing left to push on with. The second season we made the CL places, all we could buy was Bowyer on a free. Then there was the inevitable slip backwards. The aim has to be that if we get that bit of luck and make the top four in the future, we’re in a sufficiently healthy position financially that we can take advantage, and not come to a full stop. Youth development, hitherto neglected, is another part of being in a good financial state when opportunity arises. So in the absence of a Mansour, I’m not yet convinced that Ashley’s general strategy is wrong. He’s made some poor decisions, the latest being Kinnear, but overall I’m prepared to give things a bit longer. I wouldn’t say Pardew is sub-standard incidentally, but that’s another debate. Cronky has had a habit of blaming the fans in quite a few of his posts I've noticed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted February 22, 2014 Share Posted February 22, 2014 It isn't even subtle that all he wants is Premiership survival. The only time he's spent money in the past 18 months is when he shat himself at the thought of Championship football again. They've openly said that should the club qualify for Europe this season there would be no funds to strengthen the squad to take account of it. Last time that happened we avoided relegation by 5pts. Now unless they've had a sudden increase in confidence in Pardew's ability to cope with the inevitable injuries (er, this season isn't helping), that's about as good an admission that they DON'T want to qualify for Europe as you can possibly get. Pardew himself refers to it being to blame every five fucking minutes, so his opinion on it is obvious. How people can deny it is totally beyond me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interpolic Posted February 22, 2014 Share Posted February 22, 2014 There is also the complete nosedive in form since we reached 30-odd points and appeared to have made our mind up it was job done. The season we finished 5th we were pushing on at this point, but Pardew and Ashley seem to have learnt their lesson. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PineBarrens Posted February 22, 2014 Share Posted February 22, 2014 I don't know how representative of general opinion this forum is, but when I read threads like this I do worry about another post-Keegan meltdown, which won't do anyone any good. This will no doubt fall on deaf ears, but can I point out two things - Having an aim of finishing in the top ten means that 10th place is the minimum standard. It doesn't mean that you don't care whether you finish higher. Prioritising the League against the Cups is what every Premiership club and most Championship clubs do. The only difference is that the club acknowledged it when asked a direct question in a fans forum. We already know what Ashley's strategy is, because it was made clear at the start. He won't pay over the odds for established players - he'll go for young players who can be developed or players at the end of their contracts. The club itself will not run at a loss. It's a long-term strategy. I'm not sure how well it will work, but unless you're prepared to pay huge amounts of money, there's no quick way of getting beyond the point we're at at this moment. The boom and bust Freddie Shepherd way is not the better alternative. This ladies and gentlemen, as an ideal for living is an exercise in cowardice, failure and knowing your place. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bimpy474 Posted February 22, 2014 Share Posted February 22, 2014 Does Cronky actually believe that shit he posted ?. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Crooks Posted February 22, 2014 Share Posted February 22, 2014 He believes writing can fall on deaf ears so that's wrong before you even talk about football. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vinny Green Balls Posted February 22, 2014 Share Posted February 22, 2014 I don't know how representative of general opinion this forum is, but when I read threads like this I do worry about another post-Keegan meltdown, which won't do anyone any good. This will no doubt fall on deaf ears, but can I point out two things - Having an aim of finishing in the top ten means that 10th place is the minimum standard. It doesn't mean that you don't care whether you finish higher. Prioritising the League against the Cups is what every Premiership club and most Championship clubs do. The only difference is that the club acknowledged it when asked a direct question in a fans forum. We already know what Ashley's strategy is, because it was made clear at the start. He won't pay over the odds for established players - he'll go for young players who can be developed or players at the end of their contracts. The club itself will not run at a loss. It's a long-term strategy. I'm not sure how well it will work, but unless you're prepared to pay huge amounts of money, there's no quick way of getting beyond the point we're at at this moment. The boom and bust Freddie Shepherd way is not the better alternative. This argument might have been a little short of utter shit in 2010. But it's now 20fucking14. I'm not sure how well it will work? It's like Bush supporters telling us to judge his presidency in 50 years. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interpolic Posted February 22, 2014 Share Posted February 22, 2014 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueStar Posted February 22, 2014 Share Posted February 22, 2014 Prioritising the League against the Cups is what every Premiership club and most Championship clubs do. Premier League clubs prioritise the league over cups, but I'd be amazed if any other Premier League club hasn't been past the fourth round of either domestic cup since 2007 (including recent promotees). That's the difference, not how honest we are about it, but how much we aren't interested. As for his 'long term plan' and how we don't know how it's going to turn out, he started it nearly eight years ago. We know how it worked out long term. Turboshit. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 22, 2014 Share Posted February 22, 2014 He can be a tight arse and make money from the club but still make us competitive. £19m in for Cabaye, £9-10m for Grenier or Cabella. Job done. What he's doing though is just a joke. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robster Posted February 22, 2014 Share Posted February 22, 2014 Top class wumming from Cronky Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elliottman Posted February 22, 2014 Share Posted February 22, 2014 Top class wumming from Cronky Aye, its a massive wind up. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted February 22, 2014 Share Posted February 22, 2014 We obviously do lack ambition, but most of the rest of that post is basically fact. Main question I have is whether the recent lack of signings is just a blip or if it's a decision to not buy unless we might go down. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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