Toonpack Posted August 21, 2013 Share Posted August 21, 2013 Pretty flawed article since it doesn't take salaries, signing on fees and whatnot into account. Salaries should bump the figure up not down, considering our wage bill is quite a bit less than it was when Ashley took over. I think you'll find its not Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incognito Posted August 21, 2013 Share Posted August 21, 2013 Pretty flawed article since it doesn't take salaries, signing on fees and whatnot into account. Salaries should bump the figure up not down, considering our wage bill is quite a bit less than it was when Ashley took over. I think you'll find its not Really? No Smith, Owen, Butt, Geremi...they were high earners. Don't think we have anything like their salaries in the squad now...maybe Colo. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Optimistic Nut Posted August 21, 2013 Share Posted August 21, 2013 Pretty flawed article since it doesn't take salaries, signing on fees and whatnot into account. Salaries should bump the figure up not down, considering our wage bill is quite a bit less than it was when Ashley took over. I think you'll find its not Really? No Smith, Owen, Butt, Geremi...they were high earners. Don't think we have anything like their salaries in the squad now...maybe Colo. I'd imagine the average is higher. We had a handful of big earners then but I bet we've got 14-16 players now on between £30-50k, the majority towards the higher end of that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted August 21, 2013 Share Posted August 21, 2013 Whilst some of those number may be slightly off, there is no doubt that the bigger picture is that we do have a negative nett spend on transfers since Ashley took over the club, which is as laughable as it is unforgivable. Who takes over a football club to not spend any money on it? Considering the investment by other clubs we are lucky to still be in this league. We won't be for long considering more and more external money is coming in that is being used by other clubs to strengthen their playing squads and management personnel, and Ashley doesn't seem to be prepared to loosen the purse strings. Stan Kronke and The Glazers? (rather more literally in the latter case as they're getting the club to payoff the cash they used to buy it) Hicks and Gillett were the same at Liverpool, not sure about the current American owners. Would people prefer we had owners that did that but were prepared to spend more in order to compete? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJ7 Posted August 21, 2013 Share Posted August 21, 2013 Whilst some of those number may be slightly off, there is no doubt that the bigger picture is that we do have a negative nett spend on transfers since Ashley took over the club, which is as laughable as it is unforgivable. Who takes over a football club to not spend any money on it? Considering the investment by other clubs we are lucky to still be in this league. We won't be for long considering more and more external money is coming in that is being used by other clubs to strengthen their playing squads and management personnel, and Ashley doesn't seem to be prepared to loosen the purse strings. Stan Kronke and The Glazers? (rather more literally in the latter case as they're getting the club to payoff the cash they used to buy it) Hicks and Gillett were the same at Liverpool, not sure about the current American owners. Would people prefer we had owners that did that but were prepared to spend more in order to compete? If someone took over and looked to build the commercial side of the club, improve it's image and attempt to grow the fan base, I don't see any reason why we shouldn't be able to be competitive without an owner needing to throw in huge sums of money. We don't even try to grow the club off the pitch at the moment. Other clubs tour the world trying playing to new fans. We can hardly organise a pre-season tour of Europe without it being an utter shambles. Turnover has barely moved under Ashley, despite increased TV money. Sunderland make more than us commercially. Its ridiculous. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveMc Posted August 21, 2013 Share Posted August 21, 2013 Pretty flawed article since it doesn't take salaries, signing on fees and whatnot into account. Salaries should bump the figure up not down, considering our wage bill is quite a bit less than it was when Ashley took over. I think you'll find its not Really? No Smith, Owen, Butt, Geremi...they were high earners. Don't think we have anything like their salaries in the squad now...maybe Colo. I'd imagine the average is higher. We had a handful of big earners then but I bet we've got 14-16 players now on between £30-50k, the majority towards the higher end of that. Ashley signed Smith and Geremi Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveMc Posted August 21, 2013 Share Posted August 21, 2013 Whilst some of those number may be slightly off, there is no doubt that the bigger picture is that we do have a negative nett spend on transfers since Ashley took over the club, which is as laughable as it is unforgivable. Who takes over a football club to not spend any money on it? Considering the investment by other clubs we are lucky to still be in this league. We won't be for long considering more and more external money is coming in that is being used by other clubs to strengthen their playing squads and management personnel, and Ashley doesn't seem to be prepared to loosen the purse strings. Stan Kronke and The Glazers? (rather more literally in the latter case as they're getting the club to payoff the cash they used to buy it) Hicks and Gillett were the same at Liverpool, not sure about the current American owners. Would people prefer we had owners that did that but were prepared to spend more in order to compete? If someone took over and looked to build the commercial side of the club, improve it's image and attempt to grow the fan base, I don't see any reason why we shouldn't be able to be competitive without an owner needing to throw in huge sums of money. We don't even try to grow the club off the pitch at the moment. Other clubs tour the world trying playing to new fans. We can hardly organise a pre-season tour of Europe without it being an utter shambles. Turnover has barely moved under Ashley, despite increased TV money. Sunderland make more than us commercially. Its ridiculous. This Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
merlin Posted August 22, 2013 Share Posted August 22, 2013 " maniacal turd ".............I thought he was from London Very similar... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
merlin Posted August 22, 2013 Share Posted August 22, 2013 I don't know if 'you've not been supporting the club very long' is a valid reason for people to have low expectations. Surely if you've been following the club for longer you would tend to have lower expectations rather than higher? How is being part of what we achieved in the 90s going to make you have lowered expectations now? If you can remember those days - which I can, vividly - you just know we are a shadow of the club we were now, and we should be expecting far better, which we certainly would under a more ambitious and committed owner. I mean, the 90s wasn't very long ago. What about all the stuff before then? I know we've tasted relatively recent success, and that raises expectations of course. But the bigger picture is not so rosy. The 90s - 20 years ago - was when the PL started and we were one of the top clubs in it for half that period. The club lost its way under Shepherd but we still had CL football with SBR as manager and with a better Chairman we would not have been in this position now because we wouldn't be Mike Ashley's plaything. The club's reputation has fallen to rock bottom under this regime and yet you still try to find excuses and defend it. As usual, you are prepared to ignore the facts in order to justify your stance and the facts are that NUFC is a much better and bigger club than this regime are allowing it to be. If you - and those who think like you do - can't or won't accept that, you shouldn't be following the club. Try Blyth Spartans or Gateshead if you want clubs with limited potential or low ambitions, even they probably wouldn't have Pardew as manager...... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
merlin Posted August 22, 2013 Share Posted August 22, 2013 I don't know if 'you've not been supporting the club very long' is a valid reason for people to have low expectations. Surely if you've been following the club for longer you would tend to have lower expectations rather than higher? How is being part of what we achieved in the 90s going to make you have lowered expectations now? If you can remember those days - which I can, vividly - you just know we are a shadow of the club we were now, and we should be expecting far better, which we certainly would under a more ambitious and committed owner. I can remember the 90s very well and yes 93-98 was a purple patch for us but now we are just mediocre....other clubs have had purple patches recently far better than ours....Leeds, Forest even Ipswich these clubs all won major honours. The 90s as you describe we won f*** all yes the football was amazing and exciting to watch but ultimately we won nothing. It doesn't give us the divine right because we are NUFC to think we are any more deserving than their fans I've been watching us for 36 years merlin to answer your question previously so yes I've seen s**** Don't expect me to give you a medal for long service, because I can beat that by almost 20 years. I have seen us win the Fairs Cup AND be relegated, each time due to lousy directors/management. I have seen our fans out-sing the much-lauded Kop after a Wembley thrashing and I KNOW that this club is better and bigger than you and others on here are prepared to accept, because you have low expectations. I, and many others on this board do NOT share your opinion - lets leave it at that because you and I will never agree. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Venkman Posted August 22, 2013 Share Posted August 22, 2013 Nice to see someone with a bit of pride and ambition for the club. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJ7 Posted August 22, 2013 Share Posted August 22, 2013 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forbes%27_list_of_the_most_valuable_football_clubs Our turnover was above Spurs in 2007. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toonpack Posted August 22, 2013 Share Posted August 22, 2013 I don't know if 'you've not been supporting the club very long' is a valid reason for people to have low expectations. Surely if you've been following the club for longer you would tend to have lower expectations rather than higher? How is being part of what we achieved in the 90s going to make you have lowered expectations now? If you can remember those days - which I can, vividly - you just know we are a shadow of the club we were now, and we should be expecting far better, which we certainly would under a more ambitious and committed owner. I can remember the 90s very well and yes 93-98 was a purple patch for us but now we are just mediocre....other clubs have had purple patches recently far better than ours....Leeds, Forest even Ipswich these clubs all won major honours. The 90s as you describe we won f*** all yes the football was amazing and exciting to watch but ultimately we won nothing. It doesn't give us the divine right because we are NUFC to think we are any more deserving than their fans I've been watching us for 36 years merlin to answer your question previously so yes I've seen s**** Don't expect me to give you a medal for long service, because I can beat that by almost 20 years. I have seen us win the Fairs Cup AND be relegated, each time due to lousy directors/management. I have seen our fans out-sing the much-lauded Kop after a Wembley thrashing and I KNOW that this club is better and bigger than you and others on here are prepared to accept, because you have low expectations. I, and many others on this board do NOT share your opinion - lets leave it at that because you and I will never agree. It’s not about “expectations” it’s about being realistic. The game’s a phony, without a Sheik or an Oligarch we cannot compete and that is an absolute fact, and by compete I mean challenge for the real honour which is being in the mix for winning the league (as we did in the 90’s). The 90’s were great but we couldn’t maintain it, we dropped away just as the money exploded in football and whilst we were “big and ambitious” we were overspending to do it, that level of spend was unsustainable as we fell from the top table. Look at Spurs, all the years we were having our “golden period” they were a lot like us now (if you listened to their fans back then) bumbling along showing “lack of ambition” but with a healthy bottom line, they’ve ascended as we’ve descended but it’s taken years and years of them making profits and player trading. Our one hope (because we are bigger than most) is FFP, on a level field, we have a much bigger clout than an awful lot of teams. But it’s going to take time. We came from nowhere ridiculously fast under KK first time, because the game was completely different, the differential between the rich clubs and the rest was minuscule compared to today. In today’s game catching that lightning in a bottle again is all but impossible. We came close season before last under this shit regime and shit manager. On to the owner, I (and I guess many who are tarred with the brush) don’t support him, but I can understand much of what he does (some things like appointing JFK are beyond comprehension). Yeah he could throw in twenty mill a year to show “ambition”, (I’d love him to) but ambition to do what?? Finish 5th/6th/7th whoopee fucking doo eh?, There’s no guarantee of anything and it is his own money after all. But we should try!! I hear the cry, really, why should he ?? The club needs to stand on its own feet, he’s not going to put any more of his own cash in, that’s patently obvious, he could well be intent on recovering his current exposure, if he does maybe we’ll be sellable. Bottom line, any improvement is going to take a long time, there is no quick fix. That in my opinion is realism, not lowering of expectations. I support Newcastle United, I am fatalistic rather than expectant. After decades of supporting this club I know that even when we are good (the 90’s) we couldn’t win anything and I am resigned to that being the rule rather than the exception. My one hope, ambition even (likely forlorn) is that FFP works because then we have a chance, without it, short of a Sheik or Oligarch coming along (or a miracle) what’s the point, other than enjoying the team winning some games, making an impression on the “big picture” is some time down the road either way. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skirge Posted August 22, 2013 Share Posted August 22, 2013 Just sell us and buy Rangers PLEASE! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Roger Kint Posted August 22, 2013 Share Posted August 22, 2013 Just sell us and buy Rangers PLEASE! Should be easy, bet theres a huge line of buyers desperate to spend £200m+ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skirge Posted August 22, 2013 Share Posted August 22, 2013 Just sell us and buy Rangers PLEASE! Should be easy, bet theres a huge line of buyers desperate to spend £200m+ You mean £350m + Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Roger Kint Posted August 22, 2013 Share Posted August 22, 2013 Just sell us and buy Rangers PLEASE! Should be easy, bet theres a huge line of buyers desperate to spend £200m+ You mean £350m + No Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unbelievable Posted August 22, 2013 Share Posted August 22, 2013 I don't know if 'you've not been supporting the club very long' is a valid reason for people to have low expectations. Surely if you've been following the club for longer you would tend to have lower expectations rather than higher? How is being part of what we achieved in the 90s going to make you have lowered expectations now? If you can remember those days - which I can, vividly - you just know we are a shadow of the club we were now, and we should be expecting far better, which we certainly would under a more ambitious and committed owner. I can remember the 90s very well and yes 93-98 was a purple patch for us but now we are just mediocre....other clubs have had purple patches recently far better than ours....Leeds, Forest even Ipswich these clubs all won major honours. The 90s as you describe we won f*** all yes the football was amazing and exciting to watch but ultimately we won nothing. It doesn't give us the divine right because we are NUFC to think we are any more deserving than their fans I've been watching us for 36 years merlin to answer your question previously so yes I've seen s**** Don't expect me to give you a medal for long service, because I can beat that by almost 20 years. I have seen us win the Fairs Cup AND be relegated, each time due to lousy directors/management. I have seen our fans out-sing the much-lauded Kop after a Wembley thrashing and I KNOW that this club is better and bigger than you and others on here are prepared to accept, because you have low expectations. I, and many others on this board do NOT share your opinion - lets leave it at that because you and I will never agree. It’s not about “expectations” it’s about being realistic. The game’s a phony, without a Sheik or an Oligarch we cannot compete and that is an absolute fact, and by compete I mean challenge for the real honour which is being in the mix for winning the league (as we did in the 90’s). The 90’s were great but we couldn’t maintain it, we dropped away just as the money exploded in football and whilst we were “big and ambitious” we were overspending to do it, that level of spend was unsustainable as we fell from the top table. Look at Spurs, all the years we were having our “golden period” they were a lot like us now (if you listened to their fans back then) bumbling along showing “lack of ambition” but with a healthy bottom line, they’ve ascended as we’ve descended but it’s taken years and years of them making profits and player trading. Our one hope (because we are bigger than most) is FFP, on a level field, we have a much bigger clout than an awful lot of teams. But it’s going to take time. We came from nowhere ridiculously fast under KK first time, because the game was completely different, the differential between the rich clubs and the rest was minuscule compared to today. In today’s game catching that lightning in a bottle again is all but impossible. We came close season before last under this s*** regime and s*** manager. On to the owner, I (and I guess many who are tarred with the brush) don’t support him, but I can understand much of what he does (some things like appointing JFK are beyond comprehension). Yeah he could throw in twenty mill a year to show “ambition”, (I’d love him to) but ambition to do what?? Finish 5th/6th/7th whoopee f***ing doo eh?, There’s no guarantee of anything and it is his own money after all. But we should try!! I hear the cry, really, why should he ?? The club needs to stand on its own feet, he’s not going to put any more of his own cash in, that’s patently obvious, he could well be intent on recovering his current exposure, if he does maybe we’ll be sellable. Bottom line, any improvement is going to take a long time, there is no quick fix. That in my opinion is realism, not lowering of expectations. I support Newcastle United, I am fatalistic rather than expectant. After decades of supporting this club I know that even when we are good (the 90’s) we couldn’t win anything and I am resigned to that being the rule rather than the exception. My one hope, ambition even (likely forlorn) is that FFP works because then we have a chance, without it, short of a Sheik or Oligarch coming along (or a miracle) what’s the point, other than enjoying the team winning some games, making an impression on the “big picture” is some time down the road either way. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanSkÃrare Posted August 22, 2013 Share Posted August 22, 2013 What's his asking price for us? £200m + the whole debt (£129m)? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted August 22, 2013 Share Posted August 22, 2013 I don't know if 'you've not been supporting the club very long' is a valid reason for people to have low expectations. Surely if you've been following the club for longer you would tend to have lower expectations rather than higher? How is being part of what we achieved in the 90s going to make you have lowered expectations now? If you can remember those days - which I can, vividly - you just know we are a shadow of the club we were now, and we should be expecting far better, which we certainly would under a more ambitious and committed owner. I mean, the 90s wasn't very long ago. What about all the stuff before then? I know we've tasted relatively recent success, and that raises expectations of course. But the bigger picture is not so rosy. The 90s - 20 years ago - was when the PL started and we were one of the top clubs in it for half that period. The club lost its way under Shepherd but we still had CL football with SBR as manager and with a better Chairman we would not have been in this position now because we wouldn't be Mike Ashley's plaything. The club's reputation has fallen to rock bottom under this regime and yet you still try to find excuses and defend it. As usual, you are prepared to ignore the facts in order to justify your stance and the facts are that NUFC is a much better and bigger club than this regime are allowing it to be. If you - and those who think like you do - can't or won't accept that, you shouldn't be following the club. Try Blyth Spartans or Gateshead if you want clubs with limited potential or low ambitions, even they probably wouldn't have Pardew as manager...... Absolute bollocks, you either haven't read or haven't understood what I've said. I think the club is amazing and should aim as high as realistically possible, all I'm saying is that the 90s success was, if anything, slightly exceptional compared to the rest of our recent history. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted August 22, 2013 Share Posted August 22, 2013 What's his asking price for us? £200m + the whole debt (£129m)? No idea, don't even know if there is an asking price, or that he's trying to sell at all. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Roger Kint Posted August 22, 2013 Share Posted August 22, 2013 What's his asking price for us? £200m + the whole debt (£129m)? No idea, don't even know if there is an asking price, or that he's trying to sell at all. This really. Only thing to go by is that Independent? article saying he just wants his money back which at this moment stands at £243m i think. Still a good £80m too high for anyone i would guess. So basically probably not even for sale really. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pons Alias Posted August 22, 2013 Share Posted August 22, 2013 Just sell us and buy Rangers PLEASE! Word is, that the potential buying of Rangers is unrelated to any sale of us. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGuv Posted August 22, 2013 Share Posted August 22, 2013 He bought the club for £130 million (which he overpaid for) and inherited £80 million debt. The 5 seasons before he came we finished 3,5,14,7,13 In the last 5 seasons under Ashley we have finished 18,21,12,5,16. If the club had £0 debt I would expect us to be valued at around £200-£220million But we still probably have £60 million debt (I base this on nowt like, just a guess) So surely the club should only be valued at around £130-£160million? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted August 22, 2013 Share Posted August 22, 2013 The 5 seasons before he came we finished 3,5,14,7,13 In the last 5 seasons under Ashley we have finished 18,21,12,5,16. That's basically all that matters, and it's certainly no improvement. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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