Doug Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 The moron count is getting scaring high in here. I've said this before and I'll repeat it, find an example of Ben Arfa being lazy. An example of him not being technically good at tackling or heading doesn't count, find an example to back up your s****, you won't, because there aren't any. The fact that we've even lowered ourselves to this debate is sickening, he's a f***ing playmaker who creates things, not a carthorse there to stop the other team playing, we don't need 11 of those players on the pitch every single week.Bobby would be shaking his head at so many of you clueless twats, Pardew included. Exactly Right. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Prophet Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 He looked by far our brightest player when he came on. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJ_NUFC Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 He's the only one who sent my penis a-flutter during the game, and it's got nothing to even do with his looks. Those two shots he took were breathtaking stuff, it's as if there's always magic in the air when the ball's at his feet. Yes, he'll frustrate by running it out, but what else do you expect when you put so much pressure on him by putting him on for 20 mins per game, expecting him to be a free-flowing Messi 24/7? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
S.S.R. Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 This thread is divided into two groups; between those who think Ben Arfa is class, and those who are wrong. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 This thread is divided into two groups; between those who think Ben Arfa is class, and those who are wrong. True. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bowlingcrofty Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 Ben Arfa is a total enigma. He has no role, no position and therefore no job when he comes on the pitch. He gets thrown on for 20 minute spells and the rest of the team leave him isolated so that he ends up forced to take people on. He doesn't fit anywhere. He's not the world beater people thought he was and he's not as shit as others think. He's just a skilful player with no purpose. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 He is the world beater people thought though, he just hasn't been given a fair chance to show it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bowlingcrofty Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 He is the world beater people thought though, he just hasn't been given a fair chance to show it. Based on what, exactly? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 He is the world beater people thought though, he just hasn't been given a fair chance to show it. Based on what, exactly? His footballing ability. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 Ben Arfa is a total enigma. He has no role, no position and therefore no job when he comes on the pitch. He gets thrown on for 20 minute spells and the rest of the team leave him isolated so that he ends up forced to take people on. He doesn't fit anywhere. He's not the world beater people thought he was and he's not as s*** as others think. He's just a skilful player with no purpose. he has got a role, attacking player but not through the middle striker, get a cabaye style player to form a middle 3 and there you'll have it. not sure pardew will be dragged away from 4-4-2 though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bowlingcrofty Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 He is the world beater people thought though, he just hasn't been given a fair chance to show it. Based on what, exactly? His footballing ability. Which you've quite rightly said we haven't seen. So I ask again, how do you know he's a world beater? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ponsaelius Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 Ben Arfa is a total enigma. He has no role, no position and therefore no job when he comes on the pitch. He gets thrown on for 20 minute spells and the rest of the team leave him isolated so that he ends up forced to take people on. He doesn't fit anywhere. He's not the world beater people thought he was and he's not as shit as others think. He's just a skilful player with no purpose. No purpose? fuck me. If Ben Arfa's got 'no purpose' then what the hell does that make non-entities like Obertan and Ryan Taylor? The only reason he doesn't fit into the team is the manager's inability to encorporate him which is completely and utterly unforgiveable. The idea that a player of his talent has no purpose while frankly rubbish players paralyse our wings is ludicrous. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 He is the world beater people thought though, he just hasn't been given a fair chance to show it. Based on what, exactly? His footballing ability. Which you've quite rightly said we haven't seen. So I ask again, how do you know he's a world beater? We have seen it, he just hasn't been given enough regular games for him to show it consistently. Anyone who watches the lad can tell he's a class above anyone else on our books, it's obvious. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bowlingcrofty Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 Ben Arfa is a total enigma. He has no role, no position and therefore no job when he comes on the pitch. He gets thrown on for 20 minute spells and the rest of the team leave him isolated so that he ends up forced to take people on. He doesn't fit anywhere. He's not the world beater people thought he was and he's not as shit as others think. He's just a skilful player with no purpose. No purpose? fuck me. If Ben Arfa's got 'no purpose' then what the hell does that make non-entities like Obertan and Ryan Taylor? The only reason he doesn't fit into the team is the manager's inability to encorporate him which is completely and utterly unforgiveable. The idea that a player of his talent has no purpose while frankly rubbish players paralyse our wings is ludicrous. OK so what's his best position? What does he bring to the team? The answer currently is very little, unfortunately. As it happens I think next season is best to judge him if he's still here, having had a full pre-season, but I don't get the love for him at the minute. He runs into blind alleys, sometimes gets out, but on the whole does next to nowt. And for the record, criticising HBA doesn't mean I support Obertan (though criticism of Raylor is pretty daft considering the role he's played for us this season) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bowlingcrofty Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 He is the world beater people thought though, he just hasn't been given a fair chance to show it. Based on what, exactly? His footballing ability. Which you've quite rightly said we haven't seen. So I ask again, how do you know he's a world beater? We have seen it, he just hasn't been given enough regular games for him to show it consistently. Anyone who watches the lad can tell he's a class above anyone else on our books, it's obvious. I see a player playing for himself and playing with limited intelligence. Until someone (Pardew) finds a role for him, he won't be a 'class above' Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 He is the world beater people thought though, he just hasn't been given a fair chance to show it. Based on what, exactly? His footballing ability. Which you've quite rightly said we haven't seen. So I ask again, how do you know he's a world beater? We have seen it, he just hasn't been given enough regular games for him to show it consistently. Anyone who watches the lad can tell he's a class above anyone else on our books, it's obvious. I see a player playing for himself and playing with limited intelligence. Until someone (Pardew) finds a role for him, he won't be a 'class above' Well no offence but your assessment is wrong. He has excellent intelligence and an eye for a pass. He might be 'playing for himself' at times, but that's because he has to justify his existence in 20 minutes as a substitute. As you said, it's the manager's job to use him properly and the failure for me is down to Pardew and not Ben Arfa. I've no doubt at all that if he'd been played either RM or AM for a run of 10 games he would have been one of the stories of the season. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ponsaelius Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 His best position from what we've seen is wide in a 4 man midfield, a position he's filled for 45 minutes this season and 1 game last season. He scored 2 of the best goals I've ever seen from an NUFC player in those two games and was comfortably the best player on the pitch in both too. He's spent the season having cameo roles and being shunted about the pitch in different positions, playing when a number of our best players are unavailable and having the system ludicrously changed to - for some reason - avoid playing him on the wing at all costs. Even despite all this he's contributed 3 goals and 3 assists in his time on the pitch. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 His best position from what we've seen is wide in a 4 man midfield, a position he's filled for 45 minutes this season and 1 game last season. He scored 2 of the best goals I've ever seen from an NUFC player in those two games and was comfortably the best player on the pitch in both too. He's spent the season having cameo roles and being shunted about the pitch in different positions, playing when a number of our best players are unavailable and having the system ludicrously changed to - for some reason - avoid playing him on the wing at all costs. Even despite all this he's contributed 3 goals and 3 assists in his time on the pitch. for all he played wide both the goals came from him getting the ball centrally. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 I still think he's better off behind a front man in a central free role, but now we've signed Cisse we'll never see that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest neesy111 Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 Here's an idea, play a left sided player on the left so they don't have to cut in every time on the right....... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaylorJ_01 Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 Doesn't help that he has to play in front of an utter abortion of a right back when he comes on. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 I still think he's better off behind a front man in a central free role, but now we've signed Cisse we'll never see that. why not in, arond and off ba and cisse, many clubs are playing a middle 3 with a couple of the forward players dropping in a bit, when the oppo has the ball to aid the defending work by the midfield. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnypd Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 His best position from what we've seen is wide in a 4 man midfield, a position he's filled for 45 minutes this season and 1 game last season. He scored 2 of the best goals I've ever seen from an NUFC player in those two games and was comfortably the best player on the pitch in both too. He's spent the season having cameo roles and being shunted about the pitch in different positions, playing when a number of our best players are unavailable and having the system ludicrously changed to - for some reason - avoid playing him on the wing at all costs. Even despite all this he's contributed 3 goals and 3 assists in his time on the pitch. for all he played wide both the goals came from him getting the ball centrally. vs blackburn and everton? he was actually the furthest left player when he got the ball vs everton, due to most players having shuffled off to the right where the ball was. and he was definitely to the right of centre vs blackburn. regardless, it's like saying jonas or nani is better in the middle if they score from a central position - nonsense. there's a skill to cutting inside and its not the same as starting out and playing all match in the middle. also, just cos he's not hugging the touchline doesnt mean he's not out wide. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest neesy111 Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 Doesn't help that he has to play in front of an utter abortion of a right back when he comes on. Well Wolves were easily doubling up on HBA because of Simpson and his lack of desire to offer movement and drag a player away for HBA. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ponsaelius Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 People need to have a look at the number of goals and assists we're getting from midfield and defence. It's laughable, we don't have a player in the top 30 assisters in the whole league. People arguing that Ben Arfa doesn't have a role to play in the system must be delighted with the system then? I'm not. It involves hoofing the ball to a striker completely unsuited to recieving them, central midfielders restricted from crossing the halfway line and who's only role is is workrate and distributing to our sole ball carrier, wingers who's primary role is seemingly to offer defensive support to the fullbacks. The only genuine flair we're getting from the side is when Jonas and Santon carry the ball forward in tandem or Ba does something brilliant individually. It's great that we've won so many points but this tactic will not get us top four and will not allow us to progress. You need more than that. There's nothing wrong with mixing in direct football and using the wings but I'd like to think we'd start utilising the middle of the pitch more. I'd like to think we could pass it out from defence (especially with two excellent ballplaying defenders as part of the back 4), play more triangles, more interplay, more midfielders getting forward to support the strikers, more overlapping runs, more general movement when we're in possession etc etc. There is plenty we could improve on. Look at the likes of Chelsea and Arsenal, both having poor seasons and looking stagnant but neither would resort to the one dimensional stuff we play far too often - they both dominate play. We don't play possession based football and we don't play counter-attacking on transitions. I'm honestly not quite sure what our style is apart from generic hoofing and getting it wide. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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