Skeletor Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 HBA _is_ our Messi though, so what if he does lose the ball? List of "most balls lost" in La Liga: http://www.superdeporte.es/deportes/futbol/primera-division/estadisticas/balonesperdidos.html Man, Pep should bench that Argie fella. And VI wins the discussion[/end thread] Oi, that was my point. VI just provided the evidence - and many thanks to him. So yeah, people can just shut-up now. They won't though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 With Pardew the difference is hes going on recent performances over reputation. Ben Arfa was poor against Brighton & Blackburn, any other player wouldnt get starts after that. He was very good today, its about that simple. What flavoured windows do you prefer? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishmael Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 Ben Arfa's a greedy beggar, of that there's no doubt. But when the alternative is hoof ball where you give the ball away constantly, there is no alternative in reality. You make out that him being greedy is a bad thing? It really isn't. It is when you're trying to take on a 3rd man a yard from goal at the byline It was his 'greediness' that got him into that position... Obviously you balance the options he has available with his own ability to make something happen. He had more dangerous options by that point that shouldve outweighed him wanting to go past another, he didnt need to. Do you know that? Do you know exactly what options he had. He is most certainly not a greedy player in the way you describe. He looks for goals, be that assists or his own. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thomas Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 Would have been destroyed in the 1st half imo. Night and day attitude for the scum when they turned out 2nd half and of course the sending off helped him. Not taking away from a great performance but I don't think it's reasonable to suggest he would have had the same impact in the 1st half against 11. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Village Idiot Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 Google Translate on that page is good bants. Rayo vallecano have a played called 'Married' in Spanish? Casado, yeah HBA _is_ our Messi though, so what if he does lose the ball? List of "most balls lost" in La Liga: http://www.superdeporte.es/deportes/futbol/primera-division/estadisticas/balonesperdidos.html Man, Pep should bench that Argie fella. And not only Messi, if you look at the names on that list: Cronaldo, Cazorla, Diego, Verdú, Navas, De Las Cuevas, Michu, Griezmann... they are all centerpieces of their teams' attacking play. Of course the guys that try and take risks to create advantages will lose the ball. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnypd Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 To be fair, that time where he skinned two players then got tackled trying to take on a third on the byline instead of pulling it back - there was an absolute shitload of that on those videos everyone was jizzing over when we were trying to sign him. I'm not convinced Pardew is capable of coaching it out of him, if it's even possible. he actually won a corner. can't believe there were tossers in the match thread having a go at him for that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 To be fair, that time where he skinned two players then got tackled trying to take on a third on the byline instead of pulling it back - there was an absolute shitload of that on those videos everyone was jizzing over when we were trying to sign him. I'm not convinced Pardew is capable of coaching it out of him, if it's even possible. he actually won a corner. can't believe there were tossers in the match thread having a go at him for that. I know he won the corner. It was still one player too many though, and for that I believe Pardew would rather bench him in favour of more direct 'team players'. Not saying I agree with it at all. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newcastle Fan Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 To be fair, that time where he skinned two players then got tackled trying to take on a third on the byline instead of pulling it back - there was an absolute shitload of that on those videos everyone was jizzing over when we were trying to sign him. I'm not convinced Pardew is capable of coaching it out of him, if it's even possible. he actually won a corner. can't believe there were tossers in the match thread having a go at him for that. I know he won the corner. It was still one player too many though, and for that I believe Pardew would rather bench him in favour of more direct 'team players'. Not saying I agree with it at all. That why Pardew is a fucking idiot..the whole purpose of the game is to play with the ball not hoof it and attempt to score in 3 touches. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishmael Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 Which is bollocks really, because no other player could even dream of conjuring up that position in the first place... Keep him on the bench and stick to hoof ball, which has cost us 4 points in the last 2 weeks, or bring him in to give us a whole extra element to our attacking game? Simple decision to be made here fellas. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 Would have been destroyed in the 1st half imo. Night and day attitude for the scum when they turned out 2nd half and of course the sending off helped him. Not taking away from a great performance but I don't think it's reasonable to suggest he would have had the same impact in the 1st half against 11. On the contrary, if we set the team up to pass the ball I think we'd see many similar performances in the first 45 mins as well. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BlacknWhiteArmy Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 Well done Hatem. Pardew was full of praise on the touchline btw. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 Ben Arfa would walk into our team with any other manager. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayson Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 HBA _is_ our Messi though, so what if he does lose the ball? List of "most balls lost" in La Liga: http://www.superdeporte.es/deportes/futbol/primera-division/estadisticas/balonesperdidos.html Man, Pep should bench that Argie fella. And VI wins the discussion[/end thread] Again, the issue is not how much he loses the ball but where he has lost it & the situation that puts us in following that. A lot of the time I'd argue this comes as a result of him being thrown on late when we're throwing men forward trying to rescue the match - it goes without saying that if we lose the ball in those circumstances we're going to be susceptible to a counter attack. At times it has been, other times he just drifts infield and has given it away to easily. He did it several times in his central position in one of his first proper games against City & i noticed it then. Becomes an argument of cause and effect anyway & only bias due to his previous ability put people on Ben Arfas side tbh. Pardew is going purely off of him proving himself in sub appearances like anyone else & he needs to provide more positive than negative in that time. He obviously did today & Pards has said so not suprisingly to me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnypd Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 To be fair, that time where he skinned two players then got tackled trying to take on a third on the byline instead of pulling it back - there was an absolute shitload of that on those videos everyone was jizzing over when we were trying to sign him. I'm not convinced Pardew is capable of coaching it out of him, if it's even possible. he actually won a corner. can't believe there were tossers in the match thread having a go at him for that. I know he won the corner. It was still one player too many though, and for that I believe Pardew would rather bench him in favour of more direct 'team players'. Not saying I agree with it at all. the mackem defender was coming in from the angle for the lay back though. we need to stop picking faults with every little touch he has tbh. Jonas does the same thing just as much, running it out of play and holding on to the ball, but i think because we never really expect anything of Jonas it never really gets highlighted. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thomas Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 Would have been destroyed in the 1st half imo. Night and day attitude for the scum when they turned out 2nd half and of course the sending off helped him. Not taking away from a great performance but I don't think it's reasonable to suggest he would have had the same impact in the 1st half against 11. On the contrary, if we set the team up to pass the ball I think we'd see many similar performances in the first 45 mins as well. You're talking about changing a lot of variables, I'm saying if HBA was in in place of Raylor from the start, and given the intensity (and the rest of our teams lack of) in the 1st half it wouldn't have been as sparkling, whereas 2nd half they were either sedated or MoN told them to sit back more and everyone on the pitch was getting more time and space. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keefaz Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 He clearly sees things other players don't. That one ball he put in to Ba is a ball no one else in the team would have the imagination to do or try. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
colinmk Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 Ben Arfa would walk into our team with any other manager. Goes without saying. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayson Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 Ben Arfa's a greedy beggar, of that there's no doubt. But when the alternative is hoof ball where you give the ball away constantly, there is no alternative in reality. You make out that him being greedy is a bad thing? It really isn't. It is when you're trying to take on a 3rd man a yard from goal at the byline It was his 'greediness' that got him into that position... Obviously you balance the options he has available with his own ability to make something happen. He had more dangerous options by that point that shouldve outweighed him wanting to go past another, he didnt need to. Do you know that? Do you know exactly what options he had. He is most certainly not a greedy player in the way you describe. He looks for goals, be that assists or his own. Well we had two strikers in the box infront of him with others around the edge of the area so yeah. You called him a greedy player yourself just earlier man. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 Would have been destroyed in the 1st half imo. Night and day attitude for the scum when they turned out 2nd half and of course the sending off helped him. Not taking away from a great performance but I don't think it's reasonable to suggest he would have had the same impact in the 1st half against 11. On the contrary, if we set the team up to pass the ball I think we'd see many similar performances in the first 45 mins as well. You're talking about changing a lot of variables, I'm saying if HBA was in in place of Raylor from the start, and given the intensity (and the rest of our teams lack of) in the 1st half it wouldn't have been as sparkling, whereas 2nd half they were either sedated or MoN told them to sit back more and everyone on the pitch was getting more time and space. The game was only intense because we didn't try to control it through possession and resorted to hitting the ball long too easily which was inevitable the way the team was set up. Incidentally I was impressed with how Sunderland still tried to pass the ball out of defence even when down to ten men. I think we have players to do it if we are encouraged to do it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 To be fair, that time where he skinned two players then got tackled trying to take on a third on the byline instead of pulling it back - there was an absolute shitload of that on those videos everyone was jizzing over when we were trying to sign him. I'm not convinced Pardew is capable of coaching it out of him, if it's even possible. he actually won a corner. can't believe there were tossers in the match thread having a go at him for that. I know he won the corner. It was still one player too many though, and for that I believe Pardew would rather bench him in favour of more direct 'team players'. Not saying I agree with it at all. the mackem defender was coming in from the angle for the lay back though. we need to stop picking faults with every little touch he has tbh. Jonas does the same thing just as much, running it out of play and holding on to the ball, but i think because we never really expect anything of Jonas it never really gets highlighted. Preaching to the converted here mate. I'm just saying, that kind of thing is just what he does and seemingly always has. If Pardew is being as ultra-critical as we think then obviously it's easier for him to stick Taylor in the team instead. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skeletor Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 Ben Arfa would walk into our team with any other manager. Dunno. Not sure Souness or Kinnear would like him . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 Ben Arfa would walk into our team with any other manager. Dunno. Not sure Souness or Kinnear would like him . I'll give you the first one, not sure about the 2nd. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishmael Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 Ben Arfa's a greedy beggar, of that there's no doubt. But when the alternative is hoof ball where you give the ball away constantly, there is no alternative in reality. You make out that him being greedy is a bad thing? It really isn't. It is when you're trying to take on a 3rd man a yard from goal at the byline It was his 'greediness' that got him into that position... Obviously you balance the options he has available with his own ability to make something happen. He had more dangerous options by that point that shouldve outweighed him wanting to go past another, he didnt need to. Do you know that? Do you know exactly what options he had. He is most certainly not a greedy player in the way you describe. He looks for goals, be that assists or his own. Well we had two strikers in the box infront of him with others around the edge of the area so yeah. You called him a greedy player yourself just earlier man. And Ben Arfa had clear angles to give those players the ball? Read my posts again regards to greediness. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 People need to stop trying to justify not playing him, you just look daft. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnypd Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 To be fair, that time where he skinned two players then got tackled trying to take on a third on the byline instead of pulling it back - there was an absolute shitload of that on those videos everyone was jizzing over when we were trying to sign him. I'm not convinced Pardew is capable of coaching it out of him, if it's even possible. he actually won a corner. can't believe there were tossers in the match thread having a go at him for that. I know he won the corner. It was still one player too many though, and for that I believe Pardew would rather bench him in favour of more direct 'team players'. Not saying I agree with it at all. the mackem defender was coming in from the angle for the lay back though. we need to stop picking faults with every little touch he has tbh. Jonas does the same thing just as much, running it out of play and holding on to the ball, but i think because we never really expect anything of Jonas it never really gets highlighted. Preaching to the converted here mate. I'm just saying, that kind of thing is just what he does and seemingly always has. If Pardew is being as ultra-critical as we think then obviously it's easier for him to stick Taylor in the team instead. aye. if ben arfa is doing that on the half way line, as he has a couple of times in other matches, it can cause problems. today he was doing his dribbling in all the right areas. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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