Cronky Posted April 13, 2013 Share Posted April 13, 2013 g Saying he doesn't score enough goals is extraordinary. He's a goal machine who went through a bit of a drought, like Demba Ba did, like Rooney regularly does, like van Persie is at the moment. The amount of toys thrown out of the pram this season by certain people about Cisse has been pathetic. 8 goals in 30 Premiership games this season, 13 in 41 overall. Is that enough for you from a lone forward? How many of those were as the lone forward? probably like 10 How many of those were as a right winger? Probably like 5 How many of those were as a forward, be it a lone forward or as part of a front 2? Probably like 25 8 goals in 30 is not enough, whatever way you look at it, for your only striker in a 4-3-3 in a team aiming for European qualification. I find it funny that the people who are most critical of Pardew are the ones who are most forgiving when it comes to Cisse's underachievement this season, considering the fact that if Cisse had anywhere near the same chance conversion rate as last season, we would be comfortably sitting in the top half of the table. On your last point, the reason you should be critical against Pardew is because you have to be a pretty rubbish manager to not get a player like Cisse to score. Loads of us were saying in the first half of the season that we should be playing to his strengths, which was pretty much the opposite of what we did. We have started doing it a bit since Ba left and to no one's surprise both us and Cisse have improved. We have improved lately, but that's probably as much to do with our January signings hitting the ground running as it is with Cisse playing up top on his own. Of course Cisse has also improved as we have started playing to his strengths as you say. I'm not denying any of that; on the contrary, I have praised him in recent weeks for getting us the goals that win games. What I am doing is expressing a (valid in my humble opinion) concern whether it is enough. If you play a 433 and your sole forward has a 1 in 2 goalscoring rate (and that's being very generous as his goalscoring rate for the entire season stands at 1 in 3.8) based on a below average conversion rate, and then you combine that with there not being that many goals in other areas of the team (especially with HBA injured), then you'll be lucky to score a goal on average per game, which will see you draw or lose more often than not. The 433 may suit Cisse down to the ground, and indeed a number of our other players, but I'm worried about the number of goals we score in that system with Cisse (in this season's form) as the focal point. In there is the key point that what matters is the team winning games, not how many goals Cisse is scoring. Many seem to be saying that the way to improve is simply to get the rest of the team to make more chances for Cisse. A striker in his position should also be taking part in the creation of chances, and we may be able to land a striker who offers a better overall package. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flip Posted April 13, 2013 Share Posted April 13, 2013 g Saying he doesn't score enough goals is extraordinary. He's a goal machine who went through a bit of a drought, like Demba Ba did, like Rooney regularly does, like van Persie is at the moment. The amount of toys thrown out of the pram this season by certain people about Cisse has been pathetic. 8 goals in 30 Premiership games this season, 13 in 41 overall. Is that enough for you from a lone forward? How many of those were as the lone forward? probably like 10 How many of those were as a right winger? Probably like 5 How many of those were as a forward, be it a lone forward or as part of a front 2? Probably like 25 8 goals in 30 is not enough, whatever way you look at it, for your only striker in a 4-3-3 in a team aiming for European qualification. I find it funny that the people who are most critical of Pardew are the ones who are most forgiving when it comes to Cisse's underachievement this season, considering the fact that if Cisse had anywhere near the same chance conversion rate as last season, we would be comfortably sitting in the top half of the table. On your last point, the reason you should be critical against Pardew is because you have to be a pretty rubbish manager to not get a player like Cisse to score. Loads of us were saying in the first half of the season that we should be playing to his strengths, which was pretty much the opposite of what we did. We have started doing it a bit since Ba left and to no one's surprise both us and Cisse have improved. We have improved lately, but that's probably as much to do with our January signings hitting the ground running as it is with Cisse playing up top on his own. Of course Cisse has also improved as we have started playing to his strengths as you say. I'm not denying any of that; on the contrary, I have praised him in recent weeks for getting us the goals that win games. What I am doing is expressing a (valid in my humble opinion) concern whether it is enough. If you play a 433 and your sole forward has a 1 in 2 goalscoring rate (and that's being very generous as his goalscoring rate for the entire season stands at 1 in 3.8) based on a below average conversion rate, and then you combine that with there not being that many goals in other areas of the team (especially with HBA injured), then you'll be lucky to score a goal on average per game, which will see you draw or lose more often than not. The 433 may suit Cisse down to the ground, and indeed a number of our other players, but I'm worried about the number of goals we score in that system with Cisse (in this season's form) as the focal point. In there is the key point that what matters is the team winning games, not how many goals Cisse is scoring. Many seem to be saying that the way to improve is simply to get the rest of the team to make more chances for Cisse. A striker in his position should also be taking part in the creation of chances, and we may be able to land a striker who offers a better overall package. For most part of this season we have lacked a link between striker and midfielders. How deep do you want him to fall? For me Cisse's lack of goals have been more down to the manager than him or his teammates. Like Tooj has consistently said, we are terrbile in the transitional phase, both offensively and defensively and Cisse needs to fall down the whole time to help out. Until Sissoko arrived we didn't have a link between midfield and strikers as Cabaye was playing to deep and Tiote is a headless chicken. Asking for a better striker will cost us £15-20m something I'd rather we put into a good left winger who will create something himself a la Benny and Marv. As well as CB if Colo goes. Outside the top 6 there aren't many strikers who are better than Cisse. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Belfast Mags Posted April 13, 2013 Share Posted April 13, 2013 Some of Cisse's movement has been terrific lately, I honestly believe he's going to get back to being an absolute monster. Howay Papiss Lad Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jarralad Posted April 13, 2013 Share Posted April 13, 2013 Think he'll score 2 tomorrow. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest neesy111 Posted April 13, 2013 Share Posted April 13, 2013 He's due a hatful in a game. Tomorrow will be it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fenham Mag Posted April 13, 2013 Share Posted April 13, 2013 Just remembered I put him £30 each way (top 5 finish) for PL top scorer at the start of the season Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan_Taylor Posted April 13, 2013 Share Posted April 13, 2013 Howay Papiss lad! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gallowgate Toon Posted April 13, 2013 Share Posted April 13, 2013 If Kilgallon and O'Shea are his markers... Howay from Longstanton spice museum! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikejaxer Posted April 13, 2013 Share Posted April 13, 2013 Just remembered I put him £30 each way (top 5 finish) for PL top scorer at the start of the season Might still happen. Might bag 20 tommorow Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted April 13, 2013 Share Posted April 13, 2013 took him for hat trick at 17/1. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan_Taylor Posted April 13, 2013 Share Posted April 13, 2013 took him for hat trick at 17/1. Got 25/1 on Paddy Power, like. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted April 13, 2013 Share Posted April 13, 2013 took him for hat trick at 17/1. Got 25/1 on Paddy Power, like. no doubt i could've got better odds but just stick with betfair these days. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superior Acuña Posted April 14, 2013 Share Posted April 14, 2013 I'd fucking love it if this man got a goal. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teasy Posted April 14, 2013 Share Posted April 14, 2013 took him for hat trick at 17/1. Got 25/1 on Paddy Power, like. no doubt i could've got better odds but just stick with betfair these days. 33/1 on Skybet! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanj Posted April 14, 2013 Share Posted April 14, 2013 I'd f***ing love it if this man got a goal. He's going to go absolutely fucking nuts if he scores...multiply that by a million if he scores a late winner. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varadi Posted April 14, 2013 Share Posted April 14, 2013 Tell you what, feeling even more grateful than ever for that last minute winner against Fulham right now! Fancy him for a brace today... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted April 14, 2013 Share Posted April 14, 2013 Needs to keep his head today, but I do fancy him for at least one with the team we look like fielding. He's got to be nearing top form again now. Sounds petty, but I'd love for him to end up with more goals than Ba for the season. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Posted April 14, 2013 Share Posted April 14, 2013 Reckon he's going to write himself in to folklore today. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoU Posted April 14, 2013 Share Posted April 14, 2013 took him for hat trick at 17/1. Got 25/1 on Paddy Power, like. no doubt i could've got better odds but just stick with betfair these days. 33/1 on Skybet! That would be the first hattrick in his career, no? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nobody Posted April 14, 2013 Share Posted April 14, 2013 g Saying he doesn't score enough goals is extraordinary. He's a goal machine who went through a bit of a drought, like Demba Ba did, like Rooney regularly does, like van Persie is at the moment. The amount of toys thrown out of the pram this season by certain people about Cisse has been pathetic. 8 goals in 30 Premiership games this season, 13 in 41 overall. Is that enough for you from a lone forward? How many of those were as the lone forward? probably like 10 How many of those were as a right winger? Probably like 5 How many of those were as a forward, be it a lone forward or as part of a front 2? Probably like 25 8 goals in 30 is not enough, whatever way you look at it, for your only striker in a 4-3-3 in a team aiming for European qualification. I find it funny that the people who are most critical of Pardew are the ones who are most forgiving when it comes to Cisse's underachievement this season, considering the fact that if Cisse had anywhere near the same chance conversion rate as last season, we would be comfortably sitting in the top half of the table. On your last point, the reason you should be critical against Pardew is because you have to be a pretty rubbish manager to not get a player like Cisse to score. Loads of us were saying in the first half of the season that we should be playing to his strengths, which was pretty much the opposite of what we did. We have started doing it a bit since Ba left and to no one's surprise both us and Cisse have improved. We have improved lately, but that's probably as much to do with our January signings hitting the ground running as it is with Cisse playing up top on his own. Of course Cisse has also improved as we have started playing to his strengths as you say. I'm not denying any of that; on the contrary, I have praised him in recent weeks for getting us the goals that win games. What I am doing is expressing a (valid in my humble opinion) concern whether it is enough. If you play a 433 and your sole forward has a 1 in 2 goalscoring rate (and that's being very generous as his goalscoring rate for the entire season stands at 1 in 3.8) based on a below average conversion rate, and then you combine that with there not being that many goals in other areas of the team (especially with HBA injured), then you'll be lucky to score a goal on average per game, which will see you draw or lose more often than not. The 433 may suit Cisse down to the ground, and indeed a number of our other players, but I'm worried about the number of goals we score in that system with Cisse (in this season's form) as the focal point. In there is the key point that what matters is the team winning games, not how many goals Cisse is scoring. Many seem to be saying that the way to improve is simply to get the rest of the team to make more chances for Cisse. A striker in his position should also be taking part in the creation of chances, and we may be able to land a striker who offers a better overall package. For most part of this season we have lacked a link between striker and midfielders. How deep do you want him to fall? For me Cisse's lack of goals have been more down to the manager than him or his teammates. Like Tooj has consistently said, we are terrbile in the transitional phase, both offensively and defensively and Cisse needs to fall down the whole time to help out. Until Sissoko arrived we didn't have a link between midfield and strikers as Cabaye was playing to deep and Tiote is a headless chicken. Asking for a better striker will cost us £15-20m something I'd rather we put into a good left winger who will create something himself a la Benny and Marv. As well as CB if Colo goes. Outside the top 6 there aren't many strikers who are better than Cisse. Even in the "top six", who would you have over Cissé other than RVP/Rooney and Suarez? Arguably Aguero, but I would have Papiss over Ba, Defoe/Adebayor, Giroud, Dzeko and Jelavic any day of the week. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flip Posted April 14, 2013 Share Posted April 14, 2013 RVP, Rooney, Suarez, Aguero, Tevez, Michu (isn't really a striker though) are for me all better strikers. I like Dzeko and Giroud compare to the rest of this forum too, and I think Ba is on a similar level tbf. Defoe and Adebayor I ain't big fans of, but Ade on a good day is pretty much instoppable. But yes, that's my point he's not as bad as unbelievable was trying to make out. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nobody Posted April 14, 2013 Share Posted April 14, 2013 I'd have Cissé over Tevez like, they are of similar quality IMO but Tevez's attitude fucking stinks. Michu have been brilliant this season like, but I'm really not sure I'd have him over Cissé. Don't rate Dzeko, but Giroud is class, but not better than wor Papiss IMO. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
toon25 Posted April 14, 2013 Share Posted April 14, 2013 Michu a better 'striker' than Cisse? In what respect? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nobody Posted April 14, 2013 Share Posted April 14, 2013 He has scored more this season. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nobody Posted April 14, 2013 Share Posted April 14, 2013 Fwiw, Benteke is up there amongst the best strikers in the league IMO, still don't think I'd have him over Cisse though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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