Papiss Cissé

[Jack Flash]

I just don't see how it's possible to draw any decent conclusion or get any outcome from this debate. Cisse is going through a poor period of form, that's a fact. That's the extent of the argument for me, just play him and wait for him to get into better form. There is no alternative.

 

All I object to is the excessive criticism of one of our top players rather than deciding to support him through it.

 

So....wait and see?

 

< Blatant wink.

[Unbelievable]

I just don't see how it's possible to draw any decent conclusion or get any outcome from this debate. Cisse is going through a poor period of form, that's a fact. That's the extent of the argument for me, just play him and wait for him to get into better form. There is no alternative.

 

All I object to is the excessive criticism of one of our top players rather than deciding to support him through it.

 

I don't think the criticism has been that excessive tbh. Players with less ability, such as Shola, get loads more stick ironically.

[Dokko]

I just don't see how it's possible to draw any decent conclusion or get any outcome from this debate. Cisse is going through a poor period of form, that's a fact. That's the extent of the argument for me, just play him and wait for him to get into better form. There is no alternative.

 

All I object to is the excessive criticism of one of our top players rather than deciding to support him through it.

 

I don't think the criticism has been that excessive tbh. Players with less ability, such as Shola, get loads more stick ironically.

 

Any kind of criticism is excessive to Ian W. He thinks talking about his loss of form is going to effect Cisse more so is against it, see the 'support him through it comment' like what we say on a forum is going to translate to the pitch. If me or you (or anyone in this thread worried/concerned or criticising) were watching Cisse live he'd get full vocal support as always, just a shame Ian is massively set in his ways (sorry can't think of another way of saying it without upsetting or criticising Ian) and cannot see this.

 

 

 

 

[AyeDubbleYoo]

Well I would make a response to that, but apparently all my opinions are invalid. And I've been told not to abuse you personally, like you just did to me.

[Dokko]

That was abuse? Fuck me point proven 

 

 

 

[AyeDubbleYoo]

 

Oh TT, you are a master of debate. Hats off to you sir.

[The College Dropout]

That's what I don't understand. We expect more from Shola than he can give and we abuse him when he doesn't live up to it. Yet, Cisse under performs when we know he can play so much better but it is ignored and at worst, blamed on other less talented players.

[NG32]

That's what I don't understand. We expect more from Shola than he can give and we abuse him when he doesn't live up to it. Yet, Cisse under performs when we know he can play so much better but it is ignored and at worst, blamed on other less talented players.

 

Cisses's form is not ignored, its just acknowledged that he is having a poor run of form, partly due to lack of confidence, lack of supply, and a disjointed team.

 

 

[Lotus]

Cisse is good either ghosting into areas or getting early balls.

 

Right now we're not really getting round the back of teams so he can ghost in and we're not playing the ball early enough. He's getting a little anxious and he's straying offside too often. I do think you can see a pattern emerging between him and Moussa though. We are starting to play it into Cisse's feet (with his back to goal) and he's laying it off to Moussa and then spinning into space while Moussa drives forward with the ball. I think with Gouf and HBA making anitipatory runs off that move will give us a good attacking outlet.

[NG32]

I also think having Gouffran on the left has helped Cisse out.

 

 

[AyeDubbleYoo]

That's what I don't understand. We expect more from Shola than he can give and we abuse him when he doesn't live up to it. Yet, Cisse under performs when we know he can play so much better but it is ignored and at worst, blamed on other less talented players.

 

So we shouldn't criticise Shola?

 

 

[NG32]

That's what I don't understand. We expect more from Shola than he can give and we abuse him when he doesn't live up to it. Yet, Cisse under performs when we know he can play so much better but it is ignored and at worst, blamed on other less talented players.

 

So we shouldn't criticise Shola?

 

 

 

The thing about shola is, we have seen him score some top goals and shows his ability from time to time.  We have the evidence of this since he first appeared when he was 16 or 17.

 

Cisse, has had one great half season with us and a poor half season with us.  Strangely his first good half season was with us when we were playing well.  His bad half season (or just over that now) is when the team is preforming poorly overall.

 

Odd that.

[Tiresias]

Cisse can be infuriating with failing to stay onside, but he helps himself for sympathy by having the right attitude on the pitch, working hard, playing out wide where he's useless without complaining. Shola is ineffective but I suspect some of the hate for him comes as much out of what it means when he's on the pitch, it means we're set up more for the long ball.

 

The feeling is with Cisse it's a confidence thing, with Shola it's that he's just a pretty crap player most of the time...

[The College Dropout]

That's what I don't understand. We expect more from Shola than he can give and we abuse him when he doesn't live up to it. Yet, Cisse under performs when we know he can play so much better but it is ignored and at worst, blamed on other less talented players.

 

So we shouldn't criticise Shola?

 

 

 

We should when necessary. Under-achievement is always worse than lack of skill/talent/ability though.

 

Why criticise someone so harshly when they're playing to their level, they're not good enough and need diminished squad roles or sold. But someone with ability under-performs and everyone else gets the blame and the player at hand rarely receives constructive criticism.

[Shays Given Tim Flowers]

That's what I don't understand. We expect more from Shola than he can give and we abuse him when he doesn't live up to it. Yet, Cisse under performs when we know he can play so much better but it is ignored and at worst, blamed on other less talented players.

 

So we shouldn't criticise Shola?

 

 

 

We should when necessary. Under-achievement is always worse than lack of skill/talent/ability though.

 

Why criticise someone so harshly when they're playing to their level, they're not good enough and need diminished squad roles or sold. But someone with ability under-performs and everyone else gets the blame and the player at hand rarely receives constructive criticism.

 

Because he's shit, he's been shit for ages, he isn't going to get any better and its inherently frustrating. Our criticism doesn't have to be constructive at all. Some of us might just want to whinge  . We all love Shola, but sometimes he is infuriating on the pitch for us.

 

Cisse has shown himself to be capable of producing for us at the highest level (albeit for half a season). Arguably there were numerous factors contributing to this. Over the past few pages plenty people have expressed his own form hasn't been good enough. People have also said that some of it is symptomatic to the way the team are playing and the chances created for him.

 

For me the biggest criticism I have is the fact he hasn't put the ball in the net when he has been presented with decent opportunities to do so. If he had done so this debate wouldn't even be occurring.

[Hanshithispantz]

Is that what this bent crusade is all about? Trying to prove some arbitrary point that some players are criticised more than others?

 

Shola is a poor footballer who shouldn't be getting games for us, he certainly shouldn't be the 2nd best striker on our books. The same goes for Simpson at RB, the guy also appears to be a bit of a cunt. It's understandable that people don't want them in the side and will be a bit miffed when they are.

[The College Dropout]

No it's about constructive criticism. Constantly berating weaker players is stupid. Especially when they're playing close to their peak. They often get criticised for the sake of scapegoating.

 

Others, deserve constructive criticism because they're not playing as well as they can. No point burying your head in the sand and pretending it's everyone elses fault. That doesn't benefit anyone.

 

We are happy with less from our better players than they can give in terms of quality but demand more from our weaker players than they can give.

[Shays Given Tim Flowers]

No it's about constructive criticism. Constantly berating weaker players is stupid. Especially when they're playing close to their peak. They often get criticised for the sake of scapegoating.

 

Others, deserve constructive criticism because they're not playing as well as they can. No point burying your head in the sand and pretending it's everyone elses fault. That doesn't benefit anyone.

 

We are happy with less from our better players than they can give in terms of quality but demand more from our weaker players than they can give.

 

Constructive criticism is equally stupid. The players won't ever hear it so how is it possibly constructive? People will praise the good and criticise the poor. Who is burying their head in the sand? Nothing we say on here benefits anyone except the people who post it and those who read it. If anything whinging about shit players is more constructive because it at least allows us to vent  .

 

Plenty think Cisse has been poor. People like him so maybe he gets an easy ride, doesn't matter.

 

Poor players get criticised for being poor, some fans are even intelligent enough to assess performance relative to the player.

[HawK]

We need to be 4-3-3 to get the best out of this world-class finisher, with HBA right and Gouffran left, Marveaux subbing in where necessary. Midfield 3 of Sissoko/Tiote/Cabaye and the regular flat back 4. No idea what's holding Pardew to 4-4-2.

 

We haven't played 442 for months

 

Could have fooled me.

[Mole_Toonfan]

We haven't played 4-4-2 since the 2-0 away defeat to Southampton in December

[Hanshithispantz]

We need to be 4-3-3 to get the best out of this world-class finisher, with HBA right and Gouffran left, Marveaux subbing in where necessary. Midfield 3 of Sissoko/Tiote/Cabaye and the regular flat back 4. No idea what's holding Pardew to 4-4-2.

 

We haven't played 442 for months

 

Could have fooled me.

Are you taking the piss?

[pi_D]

We need to be 4-3-3 to get the best out of this world-class finisher, with HBA right and Gouffran left, Marveaux subbing in where necessary. Midfield 3 of Sissoko/Tiote/Cabaye and the regular flat back 4. No idea what's holding Pardew to 4-4-2.

 

We haven't played 442 for months

 

Could have fooled me.

Are you taking the p*ss?

[Guest icemanblue]

Where you from, Hawk?

[Hanshithispantz]

No it's about constructive criticism. Constantly berating weaker players is stupid. Especially when they're playing close to their peak. They often get criticised for the sake of scapegoating.

 

Others, deserve constructive criticism because they're not playing as well as they can. No point burying your head in the sand and pretending it's everyone elses fault. That doesn't benefit anyone.

 

We are happy with less from our better players than they can give in terms of quality but demand more from our weaker players than they can give.

What the fuck are you talking about?

 

Nobody is "happy with less" from Cisse, they just believe he is a better player than this season is showing and that he will likely turn it around when he regains his form. A lot of this has been down to his own lack of confidence and composure, but your insistence on placing the blame solely on him is absurd, and your Darren Bent comparisons are borderline offensive.

[HawK]

It's less to do with the literal 4-4-2, more like the roles. Sissoko is basically a second striker.