NG32 Posted March 5, 2013 Share Posted March 5, 2013 That's what I don't understand. We expect more from Shola than he can give and we abuse him when he doesn't live up to it. Yet, Cisse under performs when we know he can play so much better but it is ignored and at worst, blamed on other less talented players. So we shouldn't criticise Shola? The thing about shola is, we have seen him score some top goals and shows his ability from time to time. We have the evidence of this since he first appeared when he was 16 or 17. Cisse, has had one great half season with us and a poor half season with us. Strangely his first good half season was with us when we were playing well. His bad half season (or just over that now) is when the team is preforming poorly overall. Odd that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiresias Posted March 5, 2013 Share Posted March 5, 2013 Cisse can be infuriating with failing to stay onside, but he helps himself for sympathy by having the right attitude on the pitch, working hard, playing out wide where he's useless without complaining. Shola is ineffective but I suspect some of the hate for him comes as much out of what it means when he's on the pitch, it means we're set up more for the long ball. The feeling is with Cisse it's a confidence thing, with Shola it's that he's just a pretty crap player most of the time... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted March 5, 2013 Share Posted March 5, 2013 That's what I don't understand. We expect more from Shola than he can give and we abuse him when he doesn't live up to it. Yet, Cisse under performs when we know he can play so much better but it is ignored and at worst, blamed on other less talented players. So we shouldn't criticise Shola? We should when necessary. Under-achievement is always worse than lack of skill/talent/ability though. Why criticise someone so harshly when they're playing to their level, they're not good enough and need diminished squad roles or sold. But someone with ability under-performs and everyone else gets the blame and the player at hand rarely receives constructive criticism. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanshithispantz Posted March 5, 2013 Share Posted March 5, 2013 Is that what this bent crusade is all about? Trying to prove some arbitrary point that some players are criticised more than others? Shola is a poor footballer who shouldn't be getting games for us, he certainly shouldn't be the 2nd best striker on our books. The same goes for Simpson at RB, the guy also appears to be a bit of a cunt. It's understandable that people don't want them in the side and will be a bit miffed when they are. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted March 5, 2013 Share Posted March 5, 2013 No it's about constructive criticism. Constantly berating weaker players is stupid. Especially when they're playing close to their peak. They often get criticised for the sake of scapegoating. Others, deserve constructive criticism because they're not playing as well as they can. No point burying your head in the sand and pretending it's everyone elses fault. That doesn't benefit anyone. We are happy with less from our better players than they can give in terms of quality but demand more from our weaker players than they can give. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HawK Posted March 5, 2013 Share Posted March 5, 2013 We need to be 4-3-3 to get the best out of this world-class finisher, with HBA right and Gouffran left, Marveaux subbing in where necessary. Midfield 3 of Sissoko/Tiote/Cabaye and the regular flat back 4. No idea what's holding Pardew to 4-4-2. We haven't played 442 for months Could have fooled me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mole_Toonfan Posted March 5, 2013 Share Posted March 5, 2013 We haven't played 4-4-2 since the 2-0 away defeat to Southampton in December Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanshithispantz Posted March 5, 2013 Share Posted March 5, 2013 We need to be 4-3-3 to get the best out of this world-class finisher, with HBA right and Gouffran left, Marveaux subbing in where necessary. Midfield 3 of Sissoko/Tiote/Cabaye and the regular flat back 4. No idea what's holding Pardew to 4-4-2. We haven't played 442 for months Could have fooled me. Are you taking the piss? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pi_D Posted March 5, 2013 Share Posted March 5, 2013 We need to be 4-3-3 to get the best out of this world-class finisher, with HBA right and Gouffran left, Marveaux subbing in where necessary. Midfield 3 of Sissoko/Tiote/Cabaye and the regular flat back 4. No idea what's holding Pardew to 4-4-2. We haven't played 442 for months Could have fooled me. Are you taking the p*ss? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest icemanblue Posted March 5, 2013 Share Posted March 5, 2013 Where you from, Hawk? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanshithispantz Posted March 5, 2013 Share Posted March 5, 2013 No it's about constructive criticism. Constantly berating weaker players is stupid. Especially when they're playing close to their peak. They often get criticised for the sake of scapegoating. Others, deserve constructive criticism because they're not playing as well as they can. No point burying your head in the sand and pretending it's everyone elses fault. That doesn't benefit anyone. We are happy with less from our better players than they can give in terms of quality but demand more from our weaker players than they can give. What the fuck are you talking about? Nobody is "happy with less" from Cisse, they just believe he is a better player than this season is showing and that he will likely turn it around when he regains his form. A lot of this has been down to his own lack of confidence and composure, but your insistence on placing the blame solely on him is absurd, and your Darren Bent comparisons are borderline offensive. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HawK Posted March 5, 2013 Share Posted March 5, 2013 It's less to do with the literal 4-4-2, more like the roles. Sissoko is basically a second striker. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanshithispantz Posted March 5, 2013 Share Posted March 5, 2013 He really isn't. If anything Cisse drops back into midfield. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HawK Posted March 5, 2013 Share Posted March 5, 2013 Perhaps we just disagree, but from my point of view of the matches I see, it's Cisse and Sissoko up front pressing, with our wide players forming a line with our central midfield. When we get the ball, we break in this shape. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Phil K Posted March 5, 2013 Share Posted March 5, 2013 That's what I don't understand. We expect more from Shola than he can give and we abuse him when he doesn't live up to it. Yet, Cisse under performs when we know he can play so much better but it is ignored and at worst, blamed on other less talented players. Its a point Ive made a couple of times myself. Not only Cisse - happened many times in the past many on here mock and sneer at Shola, but defend others not performing I can't understand it either. What is even more baffling is how those ranting at Shola rant all the louder when this is pointed out, as if you're "not supposed to mention this, just take it for granted that it's right" To be fair on Cisse, I just don't think the lucks with him this season though. No lack of effort, certainly Poor players get criticised for being poor, some fans are even intelligent enough to assess performance relative to the player. No. Certain players get scapegoated, a good example was when we beat QPR 1-0 and Shola produced, none of the others did. Within hours, he was getting mocked again while those who DIDN'T produce didn't get a bit of criticism. Most fans will just jump on the bandwagon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiresias Posted March 5, 2013 Share Posted March 5, 2013 I understand what you're getting at Hawk, certainly Sissoko is a forward with Cisse and it's less to do with shape on team sheet, but we've gone from having a light midfield to one where the forwards drop into it to give us numbers in the middle. Also in Gouffran and Jonas we have wide players who cut in narrow so it resembles a 4-2-3-1 more than 4-4-2. We have fluidity in the middle again compared to when we played proper 4-4-2 where we were stuck in our half with the forwards completely seperated from the rest of the players. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanshithispantz Posted March 5, 2013 Share Posted March 5, 2013 Shola doesn't deserve personal abuse, but he gets stick (or Pardew does for playing him) because he should be no where near the team. It's more "why the fuck is he still playing for us, he's shit", which to be honest is a harsh but accurate statement. Fans clearly believe that Cisse is actually more than good enough to be our main centre forward and therefore have much more time for him being in the side. Surely you can see the difference here? EDIT: No doubt certain players are used as scapegoats when we lose like. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HawK Posted March 5, 2013 Share Posted March 5, 2013 Perhaps Tiesias, to me it appeared we got the best out of Cisse last season when we had a clear 3 up front rather than what appears to be 2 now. Ba and HBA running all over the place made so much space for Cisse to do what he does best. I think Cisse's suffering from Sissoko pushing too far up the pitch off the ball rather than our wide players. Sissoko doesn't create the space like the other 2 did as that's not his job from what I can see. That's not to say we're not getting him chances now, but they seem to be in different areas and where he's leading the line. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mole_Toonfan Posted March 5, 2013 Share Posted March 5, 2013 Perhaps Tiesias, to me it appeared we got the best out of Cisse last season when we had a clear 3 up front rather than what appears to be 2 now. Ba and HBA running all over the place made so much space for Cisse to do what he does best. I think Cisse's suffering from Sissoko pushing too far up the pitch off the ball rather than our wide players. Sissoko doesn't create the space like the other 2 did as that's not his job from what I can see. That's not to say we're not getting him chances now, but they seem to be in different areas and where he's leading the line. Gouffran is doing the same job Ba did last season ( in regards to 4-3-3), some could argue more effectively because he's more suited to the role and has much more pace. Ben Arfa isn't there at the moment so its hard to compare but once he does i think you will see something similar to last season. Not to mention we have two attacking fullbacks now and both are beginning to show what they can offer as an attacking outlet to improve the team. ( ok Santon needs to improve defensively but offensively he's becoming effective) We have a lot of offensive ability when everyone is fit, the problem is that if Cisse or Ben Arfa get injured we don't have the necessary quality to replace them i hope that is something that can be improved in the summer. I don't think the system or style of play is a problem anymore though more so a lack of depth and talent in some positions. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesse Pinkman Posted March 5, 2013 Share Posted March 5, 2013 No way near an ITK but been informed by a fairly reliable source that Cisse is going to see the Newcastle doctor today regarding a virus and there is a chance he may not travel to Russia.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HawK Posted March 5, 2013 Share Posted March 5, 2013 Perhaps Tiesias, to me it appeared we got the best out of Cisse last season when we had a clear 3 up front rather than what appears to be 2 now. Ba and HBA running all over the place made so much space for Cisse to do what he does best. I think Cisse's suffering from Sissoko pushing too far up the pitch off the ball rather than our wide players. Sissoko doesn't create the space like the other 2 did as that's not his job from what I can see. That's not to say we're not getting him chances now, but they seem to be in different areas and where he's leading the line. Gouffran is doing the same job Ba did last season ( in regards to 4-3-3), some could argue more effectively because he's more suited to the role and has much more pace. Ben Arfa isn't there at the moment so its hard to compare but once he does i think you will see something similar to last season. Not to mention we have two attacking fullbacks now and both are beginning to show what they can offer as an attacking outlet to improve the team. ( ok Santon needs to improve defensively but offensively he's becoming effective) We have a lot of offensive ability when everyone is fit, the problem is that if Cisse or Ben Arfa get injured we don't have the necessary quality to replace them i hope that is something that can be improved in the summer. I don't think the system or style of play is a problem anymore though more so a lack of depth and talent in some positions. Yeah I agree, when we have HBA+Gouffran/Marveaux available I'm hoping we go back to doing what we used to do very well at the back end of last season. In the interim(lol) period we just seem to revert to something that really doesn't suit our attacking players and is very reminiscent of the hit+hope tactics we had for the first few games when we had Cisse+Ba together. Bit off the topic, but if Haidara gets the nod again tonight, then what's to stop Pardew considering Santon as an attacking midfielder on the right hand side for when HBA is out? I'd like to see him started further up the pitch now we seem to have some genuine quality in both full back positions for the first time since Pearce/Barton. Bale came from being a fullback remember Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deuce Posted March 5, 2013 Share Posted March 5, 2013 No way near an ITK but been informed by a fairly reliable source that Cisse is going to see the Newcastle doctor today regarding a virus and there is a chance he may not travel to Russia.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledGeordie Posted March 5, 2013 Share Posted March 5, 2013 No way near an ITK but been informed by a fairly reliable source that Cisse is going to see the Newcastle doctor today regarding a virus and there is a chance he may not travel to Russia.. Just said on total sport he's doubtful Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mole_Toonfan Posted March 5, 2013 Share Posted March 5, 2013 Bit off the topic, but if Haidara gets the nod again tonight, then what's to stop Pardew considering Santon as an attacking midfielder on the right hand side for when HBA is out? I'd like to see him started further up the pitch now we seem to have some genuine quality in both full back positions for the first time since Pearce/Barton. Bale came from being a fullback remember I have spoken about Santon as an attacking option before and my stance is this.... A lot of of his strengths is moving into open space which comes from not being picked up from deeper positions and if he played further forward a lot of those strengths would be taken away. Also as of right now his decision making in the final third is not really good enough for an attacker and i don't think he is physically or mentally there yet to be successful in such a role. I agree with picking Haidara btw but i would be tempted to use Santon on the right side instead of Simpson, for one we are on a plastic pitch so it will be important to keep the ball. Also while it will be important to be strong defensively, it will also be important to push Anzhi back when possible and i don't think Simpson is capable of that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skeletor Posted March 5, 2013 Share Posted March 5, 2013 No way near an ITK but been informed by a fairly reliable source that Cisse is going to see the Newcastle doctor today regarding a virus and there is a chance he may not travel to Russia.. http://i1104.photobucket.com/albums/h322/wwegirl16/NOOOOOOO.gif Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now