Ronaldo Posted April 21, 2013 Share Posted April 21, 2013 Don't say anything. Just look at our bench and parts of the starting Xl and concede that your judgement's off a bit. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Venkman Posted April 21, 2013 Share Posted April 21, 2013 I'm baffled how people want to lay the blame at the players doors. Our whole team is playing badly, that is 100% at the managers door. It's the last defence of the indefensible I guess Load of nonsense. There's a fair few of us not defending Pardew in any way who also think the players are heavily to blame. Heavily, really? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Posted April 21, 2013 Share Posted April 21, 2013 Not moreso than Pardew, but yes, heavily. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Venkman Posted April 21, 2013 Share Posted April 21, 2013 Not moreso than Pardew, but yes, heavily. All of them or just one or two? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Posted April 21, 2013 Share Posted April 21, 2013 The playing staff as a whole is unbalanced, completely lacking in depth and generally underperforming. The last issue can be attributed largely to Pardew, obviously. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Venkman Posted April 21, 2013 Share Posted April 21, 2013 The playing staff as a whole is unbalanced, completely lacking in depth and generally underperforming. The last issue can be attributed largely to Pardew, obviously. And the first two to the board? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
colinmk Posted April 21, 2013 Share Posted April 21, 2013 I'd say our squad is as good as most up to the fifth placed team in the league. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dokko Posted April 21, 2013 Share Posted April 21, 2013 I'd say our squad is as good as most up to the fifth placed team in the league myself. First team possibly, squad no chance. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattoon Posted April 21, 2013 Share Posted April 21, 2013 You can blame the players all you like, as a retail manager I can blame my staff if my store is under performing but if my staff aren't performing who do you think my area manager blames? It's my fault they aren't doing there job down to my handling/training of them. Ergo the buck has to stop at the managers door, Pardew has more than capable players in his team, the fact that they aren't performing HAS to be his responsibility. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parky Posted April 21, 2013 Share Posted April 21, 2013 Compare what we have available most of the time to say Wba, Norwich and swansea...All above us. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
colinmk Posted April 21, 2013 Share Posted April 21, 2013 I'd say our squad is as good as most up to the fifth placed team in the league myself. First team possibly, squad no chance. How so? I see all the teams bar Liverpool with youngsters/unproven players on their benches most of the time, same as us. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Posted April 21, 2013 Share Posted April 21, 2013 Don't say anything. Just look at our bench and parts of the starting Xl and concede that your judgement's off a bit. I'd have to say something to do that. But lets go through the squad if we must.... Krul - Dutch international Debuchy - FR int Mbiwa - FR int Santon - ITA int Colo - ARG int Cabaye - FR Int Anita - Dutch Int HBA - FR int Jonas - Arg int Sissoko -FR int Cisse - Senegal Int Now thats a snapshot of players. I'll concede the likes of Shola/Willo/Perch/simpson etc aren't top players but not every team has a raft of top players waiting to come on. Its been done to death but look at Swansea/Wba/Anyone up to Liverpool who'd managers would kill for a squad like ours. Take away Anita and Jonas from there and you're left with 9 good (2 or 3 very good) players including only one goalscorer. I don't like doing this in this particular thread because any second one of the usual suspects will turn up, assume it's a defence of Pardew and the thread goes to shit again. I'm just a little fed up of all the pretense. When the next manager comes in and doesn't have them playing like something between Swansea and Barcelona it'll all be his fault, no doubt. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben-nufc Posted April 21, 2013 Share Posted April 21, 2013 Look at our last european campaign under Roeder, we played more games than this season, we had a much worse injury record that year and yet we finished 13th with Roeder resigning after a 'poor' league showing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattoon Posted April 21, 2013 Share Posted April 21, 2013 I'd love for us to play somewhere between Swansea and Barca, but I'd settle for a bit of pass and move and venturing out of our own area with the ball on the floor, utilising a decent midfield rather than hoofing it to a midget and watching it come back for 70 minutes a game. I want to see us go after a game and not nervously try and cling on to a slender 1-0 for 80-odd minutes! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Posted April 21, 2013 Share Posted April 21, 2013 Don't say anything. Just look at our bench and parts of the starting Xl and concede that your judgement's off a bit. I'd have to say something to do that. But lets go through the squad if we must.... Krul - Dutch international Debuchy - FR int Mbiwa - FR int Santon - ITA int Colo - ARG int Cabaye - FR Int Anita - Dutch Int HBA - FR int Jonas - Arg int Sissoko -FR int Cisse - Senegal Int Now thats a snapshot of players. I'll concede the likes of Shola/Willo/Perch/simpson etc aren't top players but not every team has a raft of top players waiting to come on. Its been done to death but look at Swansea/Wba/Anyone up to Liverpool who'd managers would kill for a squad like ours. Take away Anita and Jonas and you're left with 9 good players including only one goalscorer. I don't like doing this in this particular thread because any second one of the usual suspects will turn up, assume it's a defence of Pardew and the thread goes to s*** again. I'm just a little fed up of all the pretense. When the next manager comes in and doesn't have them playing like something between Swansea and Barcelona it'll all be his fault, no doubt. 9 good players in an 11 man team?! Thats pretty good. Also the bold bit, why on earth do you have to polarise it that much? not one person has said that, not one. People just don't want the fucking eye gougingly bad shite we are served up now. If what was posted about the Team Meeting fall out is true, which is plausible, it all points one way It's not pretty good when it represents the whole squad. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wullie Posted April 21, 2013 Share Posted April 21, 2013 There isn't a squad outside Manchester/ Chelsea that doesn't have a glaring weakness somewhere or other. For all the talk of only having Shola and Cisse for example, our striking options over the entire season have been miles better than, for example, Everton and even Spurs. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
durhamunigeordie Posted April 21, 2013 Share Posted April 21, 2013 There isn't a squad outside Manchester/ Chelsea that doesn't have a glaring weakness somewhere or other. For all the talk of only having Shola and Cisse for example, our striking options over the entire season have been miles better than, for example, Everton and even Spurs. Everton have Anichebe, Jelavic and Mirallas - we have Cisse and Shola now Ba is gone. EDIT - guess we have Gouffran as well. Still it's arguable which is the better trio and when your throw in Fellaini who was playing up front a fair bit. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Posted April 21, 2013 Share Posted April 21, 2013 There isn't a squad outside Manchester/ Chelsea that doesn't have a glaring weakness somewhere or other. For all the talk of only having Shola and Cisse for example, our striking options over the entire season have been miles better than, for example, Everton and even Spurs. Everton and Spurs have goals in their midfield and defence. Their top scorers come from midfield and both have more goals than Shola and Cisse together. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted April 21, 2013 Share Posted April 21, 2013 It's not pretty good when it represents the whole squad. We've dropped points at home to Villa, did they have a better 1st 11 or squad than us? We dropped points home and away to Reading, do they? How about the mackems home and away? West Ham at home, Brighton away, Stoke away, Swansea at home, Southampton away, Fulham away? I could probably go on. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Posted April 21, 2013 Share Posted April 21, 2013 not every team in the league has a first class first 11 and bench, its utterly unrealistic Of course it is. But is it unrealistic to have 2 or 3 players in the squad with proven track records of hitting double figures in a season? All of those chasing top 7 do. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parky Posted April 21, 2013 Share Posted April 21, 2013 I'd love for us to play somewhere between Swansea and Barca, but I'd settle for a bit of pass and move and venturing out of our own area with the ball on the floor, utilising a decent midfield rather than hoofing it to a midget and watching it come back for 70 minutes a game. I want to see us go after a game and not nervously try and cling on to a slender 1-0 for 80-odd minutes! Norwich and Wba play well on the deck with very limited sides. Don't even need Swansea as a yardstick tbh - they are lightyears ahead of us in their general play. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wullie Posted April 21, 2013 Share Posted April 21, 2013 Mucha Neville Duffy Oviedo Barkley Jelavic Naismith Everton's bench yesterday. There's simply no truth in this vast depth that the clubs in the top half supposedly possess. Obviously they have more goals from midfield - their midfield is encouraged to get in the opposition box. We are apparently not allowed more than three players at any stage of an attack. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Posted April 21, 2013 Share Posted April 21, 2013 It's not pretty good when it represents the whole squad. We've dropped points at home to Villa, did they have a better 1st 11 or squad than us? We dropped points home and away to Reading, do they? How about the mackems home and away? West Ham at home, Brighton away, Stoke away, Swansea at home, Southampton away, Fulham away? I could probably go on. I don't like doing this in this particular thread because any second one of the usual suspects will turn up, assume it's a defence of Pardew and the thread goes to shit again Not happening, go away. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted April 21, 2013 Share Posted April 21, 2013 It's not pretty good when it represents the whole squad. We've dropped points at home to Villa, did they have a better 1st 11 or squad than us? We dropped points home and away to Reading, do they? How about the mackems home and away? West Ham at home, Brighton away, Stoke away, Swansea at home, Southampton away, Fulham away? I could probably go on. I don't like doing this in this particular thread because any second one of the usual suspects will turn up, assume it's a defence of Pardew and the thread goes to s*** again Not happening, go away. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yorkie Posted April 21, 2013 Share Posted April 21, 2013 What's definition of a bad season? It's all about context. Similarly to the discussion yesterday regarding "04-05 / 12-13, which was worse?" - it's difficult to define something like this because circumstances vary year on year. However, I feel that this is the worst 'result' from a domestic campaign given the personnel available, since I've supported us. The relegation season was similar. Although it was flawed by personalities, there was bags of quality in that squad. 'On paper', it was one of the best squads that has ever been relegated from the Premier League, imo. That was proved by us losing several players from it, but still utterly humiliating the Championship. Similarly this season - when you consider the talent at the manager's disposal - it's deplorable that we're not even in the top half - never mind part of a relegation battle all season. Our squad belongs in the top 6/7/8. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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