Alan Pardew

[Hughesy]

Fervently hope that if we finish this season in anything like decent form, Pardew will not be sacked.

 

I'd be quietly embarrassed on behalf of the club - again - if he was.

 

If we finish the season in decent form I don't think many will be calling for him to be sacked tbf. I think there's a small group that dislike him regardless, but nowhere near the majority.

 

What has he ever done in his past career that gives people confidence that he is going to be a top manager with the same club over a period of more than 2 years ?

 

Why does anyone think it is going to be different here..?

 

Just as well Ipswich gave Robson a chance after his previous track record was to get Fulham relegated and then gave him time after a few rubbish seasons.

 

Managers can improve.  Pardew may not, but it is possible that he might come back a better manager for it.

 

Have you looked at Robson's career record ? He was 35 when he became manager at Fulham and 36 when he joined Ipswich.....by the time he was Pardew's age he had achieved far more than being fired from 4 clubs - if Pardew hasn't achieved anything as a manager now, he isn't going to, or at least, the odds against it are very high.

 

Look at Ferguson's record as a manager by the time he reached Pardew's age - do you think Man U would have appointed Pardew as their manager when he was the same age as Ferguson ??

 

There are plenty of managers I could quote who have made it by the time they are Pardew's age - he is at NUFC because he is cheap to employ and suits the board because of it.

Any manager worth their salt wants a degree of control over signings and club policy - Ashley and Llambias are never going to allow that.

 

My point was that the same could have been said of Robson at a particular point of his career, but obviously he went on to be a great manager.  I dare say that if Ipswich had decided that finishing 19th in Robson's second season wasn't acceptable and sacked him, his managerial career might have been a very very different one. 

 

I am not suggesting that Pardew will be anywhere near as good as Robson, but maybe Pardew does need to be given another season  in charge of a club to see if he can reverse the current trend.  Writing him off as someone who can't produce beyond 1-2 seasons is lazy and ignores all context.

 

I am sure there are plenty of managers you can mention who have 'made it' by 51 - I am sure there are a damn sight more managers you could list who haven't.  Are you suggesting that we should only appoint managers who have now 'made it'?  Perhaps we should give Jose a ring if that is now the criteria.

[Hughesy]

Just out of interest - how many clubs have a particular style of play/philosophy?  I agree that Pardew's lack of work on attacking play and tactical awareness is being shown up at the moment, but I do feel that the whole philosophy is a bit woolly and possibly being overplayed.

 

I fully expect to be torn apart for this by the way.

 

A 'particular style of play' to me refers more how easily and well players of lesser ability can slot into the team and do more than simply make up the numbers. Lots of teams can do this effectively, by which I mean they don't instantly turn to the turgid 'kick the ball as far as possible from our goal', ultra-negative play we've seen so regularly this season and even parts of last. Pardew's philosophy to date seems to be that if all of our best players aren't available then we simply can't do the same things, and I don't buy that. Some have excused it by saying we can't play good football with Williamson and Simpson in the side, but we managed it perfectly well during those six wins in a row last season in which they both played every minute. Sorry, Simpson was taken off with 8mins left against Stoke at 3-0.

 

As I've said however, the ludicrous 11 purples thing doesn't help him at all.

 

Ok - that makes far more sense to me than theidea that each team needs to have a particular style akin to a Brendan Rodgers team.

[Guest tollemache]

 

Any manager worth their salt wants a degree of control over signings and club policy - Ashley and Llambias are never going to allow that.

 

Except in pretty much every major footballing country apart from England, where directors of football are the norm and managers tend simply to coach the team. It's almost unheard of for a manager to dictate transfer policy in Italy, for example.

[BottledDog]

Pardew does have a major say though.

 

On the players we choose to pursue. Not so much on how far we go to pursue them obviously.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

It's true that working with our owner/director does present challenges that many managers wouldn't put up with. But I don't see that as a criticism of someone who will put up with them. He wants the job, he's working within the constraints he's given. Any other reaction would cause more problems and would be to the detriment of the club.

 

 

[Wullie]

If Pardew has a major say, why buy Anita only then play 4-4-2? Never has a player been less suitable for a formation.

[Disco]

If Pardew has a major say, why buy Anita only then play 4-4-2? Never has a player been less suitable for a formation.

 

I don't think any manager is going to turn down players of his quality when given the opportunity. Given that the alternative was probably nobody.

[Shays Given Tim Flowers]

Pardew does have a major say though.

 

On the players we choose to pursue. Not so much on how far we go to pursue them obviously.

 

I suspect that he also suggests the position of players that we are to recruit.

[Guest tollemache]

...and to expect Newcastle to emerge as being wedded to any particular footballing philosophy so soon after a complete top-to-bottom change in personnel is a bit much. Pardew said a long time ago that he wanted to start with an organised side that was hard to beat and progress to taking more control over games and I don't see any reason to suppose he's not still trying to do that. Whether we'll ever be thought of as having our own philosophy or brand is doubtful. Manchester United purport to have a strong philosophy but you'd struggle to put a name on it or define it. "Attacking football"? They've generally used a lot of width I suppose.

 

It's easier with Swansea and (if their manager succeeds) Liverpool because they're trying to ape tiki-taka, but that's a pretty unique example. There aren't a lot of clubs where you'd say there was a philosophy in place that they adhere to more or less regardless of the manager. Nantes used to, not sure about now. Ajax certainly do. Stoke's extreme style of play doesn't count because that is 100% Pulis' input and there's no reason to suppose it won't die with his departure just as Bolton's percentageball did when Allardyce left. AC Milan had a characteristic style of play for a long time but that was as much down to Ancelotti and general trends in Italy as anything - plus the fact they had Pirlo - and it's already been compromised since his departure... I'm struggling now.

 

Most clubs with any momentum tend just to strive for generic, modern, Champions League-style football with not much to elevate or distinguish it.

[steve_69]

It all comes back to lack of footballing knowledge/experience at Boardroom level.

Having an unscrupulous businessman at the helm has benefited us in some ways but when it comes down to selecting managers, deciding when to fire/hire someone and judging when to break our policies for the good of the club, we need someone who has been involved in the game. Whether or not there's anyone out there that Ashley and Dekka would trust enough to put in an advisory position, fuck knows.

 

If we sack Pardew now i've no doubt we'll end up with someone seriously underwhelming to replace him. If we had this adviser in place he could be out scouting possible replacements right now, which would give us a better chance of ending up with someone decent.

[Guest neesy111]

If Pardew has a say in transfers then I hope for his sake he has been banging on about a CB for the last 18 months.

[steve_69]

I genuinely can not see any reason to have faith in Pardew. If you do, think about this. WE STILL FLOAT SET PIECES TO WILLIAMSON. It has never ever worked.

 

Worse than that, we haven't scored a goal from a set piece for 2 years.  You'd think he might start working on it a bit fucking harder

[Hughesy]

...and to expect Newcastle to emerge as being wedded to any particular footballing philosophy so soon after a complete top-to-bottom change in personnel is a bit much. Pardew said a long time ago that he wanted to start with an organised side that was hard to beat and progress to taking more control over games and I don't see any reason to suppose he's not still trying to do that. Whether we'll ever be thought of as having our own philosophy or brand is doubtful. Manchester United purport to have a strong philosophy but you'd struggle to put a name on it or define it. "Attacking football"? They've generally used a lot of width I suppose.

 

It's easier with Swansea and (if their manager succeeds) Liverpool because they're trying to ape tiki-taka, but that's a pretty unique example. There aren't a lot of clubs where you'd say there was a philosophy in place that they adhere to more or less regardless of the manager. Nantes used to, not sure about now. Ajax certainly do. Stoke's extreme style of play doesn't count because that is 100% Pulis' input and there's no reason to suppose it won't die with his departure just as Bolton's percentageball did when Allardyce left. AC Milan had a characteristic style of play for a long time but that was as much down to Ancelotti and general trends in Italy as anything - plus the fact they had Pirlo - and it's already been compromised since his departure... I'm struggling now.

 

Most clubs with any momentum tend just to strive for generic, modern, Champions League-style football with not much to elevate or distinguish it.

 

Spot on and basically what I was trying to say earlier but not quite so eloquently.  Although I do agree with Dave's explanation.

[Mick]

TT, do you really believe Ashley would keep Pardew if he finishes 10th but not if he finishes 15th? Doesn't seem to tally with the common view that Ashley isn't interested in football. Why should those two finishes be any different in his eyes?

 

FWIW I think Pardew is here for the long term unless we get relegated.

Everything internally at the football club - currently anyway - revolves around finishing 8th as "par"

 

How much do you know about NUFC/Pardew that you aren't able to divulge on this forum?

How can he answer that?

[Guest neesy111]

I genuinely can not see any reason to have faith in Pardew. If you do, think about this. WE STILL FLOAT SET PIECES TO WILLIAMSON. It has never ever worked.

 

Worse than that, we haven't scored a goal from a set piece for 2 years.  You'd think he might start working on it a bit fucking harder

 

15 months from a corner.

[dilligaf]

...and to expect Newcastle to emerge as being wedded to any particular footballing philosophy so soon after a complete top-to-bottom change in personnel is a bit much. Pardew said a long time ago that he wanted to start with an organised side that was hard to beat and progress to taking more control over games 

 

 

Exactly. and after all this time we still look  like weve never played together

[steve_69]

I genuinely can not see any reason to have faith in Pardew. If you do, think about this. WE STILL FLOAT SET PIECES TO WILLIAMSON. It has never ever worked.

 

Worse than that, we haven't scored a goal from a set piece for 2 years.  You'd think he might start working on it a bit f***ing harder

 

15 months from a corner.

 

Apologies.

[Guest tollemache]

I don't think Pardew has much of a say at all when it comes to transfers. He and the board discuss which areas of the team need strengthening, then it's down to the board and scouting department to find suitable players, is the impression I get. There's no evidence of Pardew having input over and above "We need a centre half".

 

Nothing wrong with that whatsoever. The Italians think we're mental for routinely letting men who might not be at the club for longer than a season take control of decisions that will affect it financially and in other ways for years to come. Hence they tend to describe the manager more as the 'head coach'. If you think Pardew has to work under daft constraints (though trying to be profitable while bringing about a steady improvement in the quality of the squad isn't such a daft constraint) then what about Ancelotti under Berlusconi? I don't see that Ashley is so bad to work under, unless by bad you just mean unwilling to spunk loads more of his own money.

[BottledDog]

If Pardew has a major say, why buy Anita only then play 4-4-2? Never has a player been less suitable for a formation.

 

Spot on. Absolutely criminal decision. That tells me he hasn't got a clue how to utilise players at all

 

Agree to a degree.

 

I think Pardew wanted, and is very sold on the idea of a technical player like Anita (though wasn't expecting just Anita, Wullie), but just like his (probably genuine) desire to play good football, he seems to struggle to marry what he'd like to see the team do, with getting past his conservative nature and actually doing it.

[Shays Given Tim Flowers]

I don't think Pardew has much of a say at all when it comes to transfers. He and the board discuss which areas of the team need strengthening, then it's down to the board and scouting department to find suitable players, is the impression I get. There's no evidence of Pardew having input over and above "We need a centre half".

 

Nothing wrong with that whatsoever. The Italians think we're mental for routinely letting men who might not be at the club for longer than a season take control of decisions that will affect it financially and in other ways for years to come. Hence they tend to describe the manager more as the 'head coach'. If you think Pardew has to work under daft constraints (though trying to be profitable while bringing about a steady improvement in the quality of the squad isn't such a daft constraint) then what about Ancelotti under Berlusconi? I don't see that Ashley is so bad to work under, unless by bad you just mean unwilling to spunk loads more of his own money.

 

I agree with the sentiment you express here. With regards to the bolded part Keegan said after he left that there were big problems with Trust. That Ashley and Llambias would give you an assurance and then do the complete opposite. If that's still the case then it makes it very difficult to work for them as ultimately its the manager who gets the majority of flack.

 

Again though whatever difficulties (if any) Pardew has encountered working under Mike Ashley do not account for the teams poor performances this season.

[Guest Phil K]

Solano is having a go at Pardews "logic"  at playing a "weakened" side at Brighton.

I'd call it gross stupidity, not "logic" personally http://www.newcastleunited-mad.co.uk/news/tmnw/solano_cant_understand_pardews_logic_777829/index.shtml?

[Guest tollemache]

Yeah, the set piece thing baffles and infuriates me - it's as though they simply don't work on it

 

But as far as the style of play goes, I disagree that we haven't moved roughly in the right direction (in terms of intent if not results) since the start of last season. There was a clear effort to be more expansive towards the end of the season, and there has been a clear effort to do the same in the last few games. I really don't think at any point Pardew decided to ditch that intention and i'm 95% confident we'll see him stick to it, by and large, over the next season or so.

[WarrenBartonCentrePartin]

It's pure sentiment talking here, but imagine Nobby as manager, man!

[nufc4eva]

Yeah, the set piece thing baffles and infuriates me - it's as though they simply don't work on it

 

But as far as the style of play goes, I disagree that we haven't moved roughly in the right direction (in terms of intent if not results) since the start of last season. There was a clear effort to be more expansive towards the end of the season, and there has been a clear effort to do the same in the last few games. I really don't think at any point Pardew decided to ditch that intention and i'm 95% confident we'll see him stick to it, by and large, over the next season or so.

 

Problem is it has only been last few games trying to play a 4-3-3 and even then he decided Cisse was a winger. He only tried it as a last throw of dice because his 4-4-2 with long ball did not work with Ba and Cisse up front - which was not a shock to anyone here.

 

In the 4-3-3 we ultimately have players like Anita, Marveux, Bigi, Cabaye that will thrive and the former two certainly have looked better - again no surprise. However he will then ruin it all by putting Jonas left of a front 3 or making us play rigid even in that formation. I think with decent right Back, Centre Half - Ben Arfa on right and another winger/forward on left we would look more fluid. Allow the midfield to interchange but ensure they know when to fill in and when to attack (If cabaye launches forward, someone needs to sit in and vice versa, if Debuchy runs forward Anita needs to cover)

[Hughesy]

TT, do you really believe Ashley would keep Pardew if he finishes 10th but not if he finishes 15th? Doesn't seem to tally with the common view that Ashley isn't interested in football. Why should those two finishes be any different in his eyes?

 

FWIW I think Pardew is here for the long term unless we get relegated.

Everything internally at the football club - currently anyway - revolves around finishing 8th as "par"

 

How much do you know about NUFC/Pardew that you aren't able to divulge on this forum?

How can he answer that?

 

I didn't expect him to tell us!  I was just wondering if he knew more than he has stated before as we get dripfeed the odd bit of new information.