Alan Pardew

[Dr Venkman]

Seriously? That's your conclusion? Could you come round mine tomorrow morning and let me know why I'm eating breakfast? I think it's because I'm hungry but I need some stats to prove it.

 

If it's so obvious what Jonas offers, why do so many people say he's clearly wrong in playing him when fit?

 

Think it's a question of whether people think the team needs his qualities or we would be better off sacrificing them for more attacking flair.

 

The evidence is there that we aren't better off for it.  When he's been forcibly sacrificed we have conceded by the bucket load.

 

Pardew is reliant on players like Jonas because of the way he sets the team up, it's a damning indictment.

[Rich]

Interestingly, Tiote hasn't made a single error this season that has led directly to a goal.

 

[Guest Dontooner]

Which also points to Pardew selection flaws, which he selects player not based on merits. Just because they are more aggressive and defensive.

Tiote has been a liability for much of the season but he still prefers him there because of his defensive nature of a manager.

 

The amount of misplace passes or invisible performances from Tiote has a big impact on our performances this year.

Pardew selections has been flawed this year but he repeatly make those mistakes because he believes its the way forward.

 

Not sure about others but this is worrying since the manager in charge is making glaring mistakes.

 

I'm sure this was said yesterday, but I'm not Sure Tiote has ever been invisible.  He's never hidden in any game I've seen.  His problem is he despite being solid for most of the game he makes errors that cost us dear.  Certainly moreso this season.

 

He's one of the internationals at the club being played where he is most comfortable though.  There is an argument that Perch has had a better season when played, so he should play.  If he made that selection choice though, the amount of grief given to Pardew on here would be unreal. Guaranteed.

Good at least we do agree , selection isn't Pardews greatest asset.

I have point out that Pardew have merits in trying to achieve a solid tight unit in a team and team moral.

Could you point out to me where else you think Pardew is a big plus for us?

[Dr Venkman]

Seriously? That's your conclusion? Could you come round mine tomorrow morning and let me know why I'm eating breakfast? I think it's because I'm hungry but I need some stats to prove it.

 

If it's so obvious what Jonas offers, why do so many people say he's clearly wrong in playing him when fit?

 

Think it's a question of whether people think the team needs his qualities or we would be better off sacrificing them for more attacking flair.

 

The evidence is there that we aren't better off for it.  When he's been forcibly sacrificed we have conceded by the bucket load.

 

True, but it could be argued that the defensive solidity could be achieved elsewhere in the team and in other ways.

 

I don't mind Jonas as an option and as long as we don't expect him to create or score much. He must be a nightmare to play against.

 

Depends who you are, if I'm a full back playing at St James and I see I'm up against Jonas I'm happy. Pardew doesn't want our team to give the other teams defence nightmares. He's much more interested in us posing a problem to their attackers.

[Hanshithispantz]

Which also points to Pardew selection flaws, which he selects player not based on merits. Just because they are more aggressive and defensive.

Tiote has been a liability for much of the season but he still prefers him there because of his defensive nature of a manager.

 

The amount of misplace passes or invisible performances from Tiote has a big impact on our performances this year.

Pardew selections has been flawed this year but he repeatly make those mistakes because he believes its the way forward.

 

Not sure about others but this is worrying since the manager in charge is making glaring mistakes.

 

I'm sure this was said yesterday, but I'm not sure Tiote has ever been invisible.  He's never hidden in any game I've seen.  His problem is despite being solid for most of the game he makes errors that cost us dear.  Certainly moreso this season.

 

He's one of the internationals at the club being played where he is most comfortable though.  There is an argument that Perch has had a better season when played, so he should play.  If he made that selection choice though, the amount of grief given to Pardew on here would be unreal. Guaranteed.

No it wouldn't and it's actually been suggested many times, especially after it became clear that Tiote just wasn't getting better.

 

I'd personally rather stick with Tiote than Perch like, purely because he is capable of far more. But we can make a midfield due/trio out of Cabaye, Sissoko, Anita, Marveaux, Bigirimana and even Jonas, yet when Tiote is fit, regardless of who we play and whether or not we're at home, he'll start.

[Rich]

Interestingly, Tiote hasn't made a single error this season that has led directly to a goal.

 

 

Even more interestingly, Tiote's only ever error leading directly to a goal was in his first season when people thought he was playing his best football for us.

 

/shockingstatsshockingtheworld

[Pilko]

Doesn't surprise me, that stat about Tiote and the most goals conceded. Some of his more shambolic, ineffective performances have resulted in games where we've shipped 3, 4, 6 and 7.

 

The Arsenal away game was, and still is, the point of no return for Tiote for me. It was the most lazy, ill-disciplined and fucking shite performance I've seen from a centre-mid since the days of Amdy Faye and Nicky Butt.

[Interpolic]

Looking at the other end of the spectrum there is a level of 'confirmation' of which defensive players have let us down...

 

Worst 5

Tiote - 41.3 minutes per goal conceded

Sissoko - 42.7

Perch - 43.5

Marveaux - 46.7

Debuchy - 47

 

Tiote has been more of a liability than a help in shoring up our defence this season.  His mistakes seem to be getting more and more frequent.

 

Sissoko can't really be blamed.  Never played where he is used to.  Should really be playing deeper and making occasional forward runs to add to the chaos during times of pressure or when he spots a gap.

 

The others...what we all knew.

 

There's not much of a level of confirmation there at all, though, given the relative absence of any context.

True, what else can we add to it?

 

You'd have to weight it against teams played against.

 

And also the period of the game that the player was on the pitch for. I think more goals are scored towards the end of the game for example and we're not comparing players that have played 90 minutes at a time in every case.

[Dave]

I'm still baffled by that comment from Pardew about getting Tiote OUT of the habit of just winning it and giving it. He seems to have been worse and worse since then.

[Dr Venkman]

I'm still baffled by that comment from Pardew about getting Tiote OUT of the habit of just winning it and giving it. He seems to have been worse and worse since then.

 

I'm not, he's a confused man.

[Rich]

Doesn't surprise me, that stat about Tiote and the most goals conceded. Some of his more shambolic, ineffective performances have resulted in games where we've shipped 3, 4, 6 and 7.

 

The Arsenal away game was, and still is, the point of no return for Tiote for me. It was the most lazy, ill-disciplined and fucking shite performance I've seen from a centre-mid since the days of Amdy Faye and Nicky Butt.

 

We haven't conceded 4 in a game when Tiote has played this season, unless you count Liverpool where it was 4-0 by the time he went off

[Dave]

Which also points to Pardew selection flaws, which he selects player not based on merits. Just because they are more aggressive and defensive.

Tiote has been a liability for much of the season but he still prefers him there because of his defensive nature of a manager.

 

The amount of misplace passes or invisible performances from Tiote has a big impact on our performances this year.

Pardew selections has been flawed this year but he repeatly make those mistakes because he believes its the way forward.

 

Not sure about others but this is worrying since the manager in charge is making glaring mistakes.

 

I'm sure this was said yesterday, but I'm not sure Tiote has ever been invisible.  He's never hidden in any game I've seen.  His problem is despite being solid for most of the game he makes errors that cost us dear.  Certainly moreso this season.

 

He's one of the internationals at the club being played where he is most comfortable though.  There is an argument that Perch has had a better season when played, so he should play.  If he made that selection choice though, the amount of grief given to Pardew on here would be unreal. Guaranteed.

 

What's that based on? I'm still a fan of Tiote but his reputation on here has nosedived massively over the last 18 months.

[polpolpol]

Which also points to Pardew selection flaws, which he selects player not based on merits. Just because they are more aggressive and defensive.

Tiote has been a liability for much of the season but he still prefers him there because of his defensive nature of a manager.

 

The amount of misplace passes or invisible performances from Tiote has a big impact on our performances this year.

Pardew selections has been flawed this year but he repeatly make those mistakes because he believes its the way forward.

 

Not sure about others but this is worrying since the manager in charge is making glaring mistakes.

 

I'm sure this was said yesterday, but I'm not sure Tiote has ever been invisible.  He's never hidden in any game I've seen.  His problem is despite being solid for most of the game he makes errors that cost us dear.  Certainly moreso this season.

 

He's one of the internationals at the club being played where he is most comfortable though.  There is an argument that Perch has had a better season when played, so he should play.  If he made that selection choice though, the amount of grief given to Pardew on here would be unreal. Guaranteed.

 

If Perch in midfield is the answer, what's the question?

[Dr Venkman]

Which also points to Pardew selection flaws, which he selects player not based on merits. Just because they are more aggressive and defensive.

Tiote has been a liability for much of the season but he still prefers him there because of his defensive nature of a manager.

 

The amount of misplace passes or invisible performances from Tiote has a big impact on our performances this year.

Pardew selections has been flawed this year but he repeatly make those mistakes because he believes its the way forward.

 

Not sure about others but this is worrying since the manager in charge is making glaring mistakes.

 

I'm sure this was said yesterday, but I'm not sure Tiote has ever been invisible.  He's never hidden in any game I've seen.  His problem is despite being solid for most of the game he makes errors that cost us dear.  Certainly moreso this season.

 

He's one of the internationals at the club being played where he is most comfortable though.  There is an argument that Perch has had a better season when played, so he should play.  If he made that selection choice though, the amount of grief given to Pardew on here would be unreal. Guaranteed.

 

What's that based on? I'm still a fan of Tiote but his reputation on here has nosedived massively over the last 18 months.

 

It's bullshit, there's been loads of calls for Perch to get that spot.

[Rich]

Which also points to Pardew selection flaws, which he selects player not based on merits. Just because they are more aggressive and defensive.

Tiote has been a liability for much of the season but he still prefers him there because of his defensive nature of a manager.

 

The amount of misplace passes or invisible performances from Tiote has a big impact on our performances this year.

Pardew selections has been flawed this year but he repeatly make those mistakes because he believes its the way forward.

 

Not sure about others but this is worrying since the manager in charge is making glaring mistakes.

 

I'm sure this was said yesterday, but I'm not sure Tiote has ever been invisible.  He's never hidden in any game I've seen.  His problem is despite being solid for most of the game he makes errors that cost us dear.  Certainly moreso this season.

 

He's one of the internationals at the club being played where he is most comfortable though.  There is an argument that Perch has had a better season when played, so he should play.  If he made that selection choice though, the amount of grief given to Pardew on here would be unreal. Guaranteed.

 

What's that based on? I'm still a fan of Tiote but his reputation on here has nosedived massively over the last 18 months.

 

It's bullshit, there's been loads of calls for Perch to get that spot.

 

HF hasn't been here much to see them though, in fairness. In fact he's only made 190 posts this season, a mere 2.4% of his total since 2006.

 

Further still, 133 of those have been since Monday. That's 70% of his 2012/13 contribution. Not good enough, leaving his effort for when we're already guaranteed safety.

 

/stats

[Disco]

Interestingly, Tiote hasn't made a single error this season that has led directly to a goal.

 

 

http://www2.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/Jonathan+Walters+Newcastle+United+v+Stoke+lneH22Sk5CWl.jpg

[Rich]

Interestingly, Tiote hasn't made a single error this season that has led directly to a goal.

 

 

http://www2.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/Jonathan+Walters+Newcastle+United+v+Stoke+lneH22Sk5CWl.jpg

 

Quite.

[Taylor Swift]

Looking at the other end of the spectrum there is a level of 'confirmation' of which defensive players have let us down...

 

Worst 5

Tiote - 41.3 minutes per goal conceded

Sissoko - 42.7

Perch - 43.5

Marveaux - 46.7

Debuchy - 47

 

Tiote has been more of a liability than a help in shoring up our defence this season.  His mistakes seem to be getting more and more frequent.

 

Sissoko can't really be blamed.  Never played where he is used to.  Should really be playing deeper and making occasional forward runs to add to the chaos during times of pressure or when he spots a gap.

 

The others...what we all knew.

 

There's not much of a level of confirmation there at all, though, given the relative absence of any context.

True, what else can we add to it?

 

Chez, you know full well that HP would fail a statistics course if he presented his information like he's done in this thread. You need to do proper regressions, have big sample sizes etc.

 

This look at minutes and goals conceded or % of shots taken inside the area to points is such a fundamentally flawed analysis that i just don't know where to start. If you can't even give confidence levels to your conclusion then it's even worse. What he's done in this thread is just confused anyone who doesn't have a background in Maths and used statistics in the worse way to 'back up' his point, by which he means that he's cherry picked stats to prove his points.

 

Here, I'm going to do something similar:

List of players in order of appearances: Cisse (34), Jonas (33)....

Goals conceded: 67 (third worst in the league)

 

Jonas is shit.

[Rich]

Of course he knows man

[AyeDubbleYoo]

Would assessment of football performances and league positions require a much larger sample as well?

[Hanshithispantz]

What exactly is the argument here anyway? I don't think anyone would argue that Pardew hasn't had the rub of the green this season and that some players haven't pulled their weight at times, or have been off form for whatever reason.

 

We've literally just survived relegation by the skin of our teeth though and the blame has to lie at the manager's feet, obviously Mike Ashley should have spent in the summer etc etc but he isn't exactly a replaceable cog in the machine.

[Wullie]

Quibbling about exactly who should be playing in defensive midfield to prevent conceding so many goals is skirting round the issue. In an ideal world, I would prefer to play without one altogether, the players should be coached into pressing in the right areas, keep the ball well and get rid of the need for a player only there to tackle by being well positioned. Alex Ferguson has been the absolute master at it.

 

I don't necessarily have a problem with having one though because very few managers are able to coach a team as well as him, but one is the absolute maximum from the start of any game, to have two you need to have really outstanding players ahead of them. Pardew regularly plays with three. He simply doesn't know how to coach a team to defend competently without making massive attacking sacrifices.

[Happy Face]

Chez, you know full well that HP would fail a statistics course if he presented his information like he's done in this thread.

 

I got a third actually

 

[KaKa]

It's possible he believes Tiote is a good player and will improve given a run of games. And also there is a lack of good alternatives if you believe a dedicated DM is needed.

 

Tiote is inherently a mad man, he is prone to getting super hyper, and this has to be channeled in the right way. He should be instructed to stay calm, and not go rampaging around the pitch so much. Instead he tends to press way too far up the pitch lately, and is quite undisciplined in this.

 

The way Pardew is always going on about wanting ball winners/tacklers, I can't help but feel this sort of approach is down to his instructions for them to go after the ball. I think this ultimately has a lot to do with Tiote's awful play. He doesn't really sit deep and offer protection to the defence, and look to intercept and force bad passes, like he did so well originally, and it's a pretty big problem. Perch essentially has the same issue.

 

I believe this more disciplined approach to the DM position, is actually a strength of Anita's, but he has been shunted aside because he isn't a "ball winner".

 

Just another example of Pardew not really given the players the right instructions, and getting the most out of them. It's a real problem.

[Guest Dontooner]

Which also points to Pardew selection flaws, which he selects player not based on merits. Just because they are more aggressive and defensive.

Tiote has been a liability for much of the season but he still prefers him there because of his defensive nature of a manager.

 

The amount of misplace passes or invisible performances from Tiote has a big impact on our performances this year.

Pardew selections has been flawed this year but he repeatly make those mistakes because he believes its the way forward.

 

Not sure about others but this is worrying since the manager in charge is making glaring mistakes.

 

I'm sure this was said yesterday, but I'm not sure Tiote has ever been invisible.  He's never hidden in any game I've seen.  His problem is despite being solid for most of the game he makes errors that cost us dear.  Certainly moreso this season.

 

He's one of the internationals at the club being played where he is most comfortable though.  There is an argument that Perch has had a better season when played, so he should play.  If he made that selection choice though, the amount of grief given to Pardew on here would be unreal. Guaranteed.

Sorry i was eating and might not have interpreted what you wrote correctly.

Just to point out Tiote never hides but his contributions going forward is quite minimal, hence the invisible part. As you said in attack he might even be a liability.

 

That is not the only problem for Tiote, Tiote is given a pivotal role in the team to distribute the ball most of the season until cabaye officially became a quarter back in the last 8 games or so.

The instructions for Tiote to be a distributor has cripple our attacks, this is not good management at all.

Pardew has made bad choices but he has let it run, the performaces of individual players has been poor this season.

However i think the team performances has being worse, this i am afraid is down to bad management.