Jump to content
Newcastle-Online

Still Not Worthy Of A Thread

joeyt

by joeyt
in Football

 Share

Recommended Posts

Tooj

Tooj

Posted
Posted

http://espnfc.com/blog/_/name/espnfcunited/id/9688?cc=5739

 

Dropping a cult figure - the 'Mata problem'

 

It was the kind of form, quite simply, that Internazionale looked set to build their entire future on.

 

Upon arriving at the San Siro in 1957, Argentine Antonio Valentin Angelillo immediately captured the imagination with the impudence of his touch and impressiveness of his scoring. Operating as a playmaker, he hit 16 goals in 34 games of the 1957-58 campaign. It was his second season, however, that still stands out. Angelillo struck 33 goals in 33 matches, which is a return that was not surpassed in the 54 years since.

 

Unsurprisingly, the forward enjoyed the adulation to go with that ability -- from all at Inter, except from the one man who mattered most.

 

Helenio Herrera decided to drop the playmaker just weeks after being appointed manager in 1960. It caused all manner of controversy, with newspaper headlines describing it as "The Angelillo Problem." Herrera quickly responded, stating that "he will play again when he is back on form." A number of opposition clubs made public their interest. It was said in private, however, that the Inter manager just couldn't stand Angelillo.

 

Many of those details sound familiar to the events of the past few weeks at Stamford Bridge. Even more pointedly, this is not the first time that parallels have been drawn between Herrera and Jose Mourinho. Outgoing Internazionale president Massimo Moratti is one of many to describe the Portuguese as the true successor to Herrera, in terms of everything from their type of career to the style of management. Just as Angelillo was not the first star player that Herrera decided to take on after taking over a new club, a host of other names have endured the same treatment from Mourinho as Juan Mata.

 

Herrera, in fact, set the tone and the standard for this type of confrontation two years before Inter. When the Argentine arrived as coach of Barcelona in 1958, Ladislao Kubala was not just the greatest player in the team, but at that stage, seen as arguably the most important figure in the club's entire history. His brilliance was the most responsible factor for the two domestic doubles of 1952 and 1953, to the point that the cult of "Kubalismo" was said to swirl around Camp Nou.

 

Herrera was not a follower. Not for the last time, he took a drastic decision, dropping Kubala to the utter shock of the Catalan crowd. A section of Barca fans never forgave him, which was something the manager acknowledged on leaving the club.

 

"Kubala is the greatest player I have ever known. When I trained other teams I always admired and feared him. … Unfortunately, I found myself unable to convince myself that his technique could offset his lack of speed and the loss of continuity in his efforts. The crowd who mill around football stadiums are conservative and above all sentimental. I realised that excluding Kubala from the first team was going against the current."

 

Herrera could reasonably point to the increasing effect that alcohol was having on the Hungarian's career, even if Kubala would go on to put in a fine performance in the 1961 European Cup final a year after the manager left.

 

The sport has obviously moved on since then, but Mourinho has frequently repeated the same type of decision. Every new job has seen him challenge an existing squad member, with the names appearing to increase in status as his career has gone on: Adrian Mutu at Chelsea, Mario Balotelli at Inter, Pedro Leon and then Iker Casillas at Real Madrid … and, most recently, Mata on his return to Stamford Bridge.

 

One of the most remarkable aspects of the Spanish attacker’s situation, beyond such an exceptional player getting dropped at all, is that this level of rancour seems so unnecessary so early. There had been such a good vibe around Stamford Bridge as a consequence of Mourinho's return. Even if the Portuguese genuinely believes that Mata's exact abilities do not suit his tactics, there is surely a less brutal way to exclude such a popular player. Instead, we see this current situation. It is almost as if Herrera and Mourinho have required a certain amount of tense energy in order to ignite their teams.

 

For their part, a number of other managers perceived as much calmer than that duo have taken decisions just as stark on arriving at a new club.

 

Pep Guardiola immediately discarded Ronaldinho and Deco at Barcelona in 2008, and wanted to do the same to Samuel Eto'o. He kept that line of thought even after the Cameroonian had been crucial to the most successful season in the club's history, proving as irrelevant to Guardiola in the long term as the centrality of the previous two seasons in what was just Barca's second Champions League in 2006. Herrera's own nemesis, Nereo Rocco, used to rage in public about the "laziness" of legendary scorers Jimmy Greaves and Jose Altafini -- until the sale of the English forward allowed him to at least accommodate the Brazilian in an approach he preferred.

 

At Manchester United, Dave Sexton hit the wrong note by selling the hugely popular Gordon Hill to Derby County in 1978, before Alex Ferguson decided to rid the club of both Norman Whiteside and Paul McGrath about a decade later. Roberto Baggio's unique style has surprisingly caused an issue for a few managers, not least Marcello Lippi, while Graeme Souness arguably created the first of many issues at Liverpool by deciding to sell Peter Beardsley to Everton in 1991.

 

At the time, the Anfield boss felt the forward was past his best, and it is one of a number of different arguments put forward in such situations. The most common is tactica; which was cited in the cases of Greaves, Altafini, Hill, Baggio and, of course, Mata. The second is a potentially damaging influence, with Ferguson seeking to eliminate a drinking culture at Old Trafford enjoyed by Whiteside and McGrath, and Guardiola attempting to make Barcelona more focused after the lethargy of Ronaldinho had spread.

 

The most distinctive of all was "the Angelillo problem," as Herrera and many journalists put it down to a loss of form after striking up a relationship with singer Ilya Lopez. Their social life was such that the Argentine coach stated the player "had no energy left."

 

Many close to Herrera felt he was never willing to commit to Angelillo at all, selling him to Roma after just a year. When discussing the Kubala situation, the Hungarian's biographer Juan Jose Castillo offered a telling opinion of the manager.

 

"It was not that he didn't appreciate Kubala or that he didn't recognise his qualities, but that he saw him as a rival and Herrera always wanted to be boss."

 

For all the differences surrounding the individual decisions, and all the various genuine reasons offered, this is the theme commonly running more deeply through each of them. Ultimately, they are displays of power.

 

A new managerial appointment is always surrounded by a certain amount of uncertainty, but these are attempts to illustrate an utter singularity of authority. Some pick and choose which players to do this with, as Ferguson clearly saw with Whiteside and McGrath rather than Bryan Robson, while others go to the top. It is difficult not to think Mourinho has done the latter.

 

As for whether they are the right decisions, that is not dependent on the player.

 

The key is not who the new managers take on, but rather where they take the club next.

Link to post
Share on other sites
mofo

mofo

Posted
Posted

Former Toon Star: The Day Shearer Knocked Me Out Cold In Boozy Brawl:

 

http://tyneandwear.sky.com/news/article/83018/former-toon-star-the-day-shearer-knocked-me-out-cold-in-boozy

 

Former Newcastle star Keith Gillespie has lifted the lid on the day Alan Shearer knocked him unconscious in a boozy confrontation on a busy shopping street.

 

 

 

The 38-year-old former winger, part of Kevin Keegan's famous "Entertainers" line-up, has revealed all about his days as a football hell-raiser in a new autobiography How Not To Be A Football Millionaire.

 

In it he tells how he's blown £7m on gambling, leaving him with little to show from a top-flight career that saw him play for Manchester United, Newcastle and Blackburn amongst others.

 

He tells of the spat with Magpies legend Shearer, which happened on a team-building jaunt to Dublin in the mid-nineties.

 

Gillespie said the trouble started when he began flicking beer bottle tops at his team-mates, with two of them hitting Shearer.

The winger admits he enjoyed annoying the then-England and Toon skipper and made him his target.

 

The row came to a head when Gillespie drunkenly knocked cutlery from a table and Shearer insisted he pick it up, which Gillespie ignored.

 

He writes: "Red mist descended, we had a bit of a row and for some reason I asked him if he wanted to take it outside. Madness."

 

They left Dublin's Cafe En Seine and walked side by side to the front door onto a street full of Sunday afternoon shoppers.

Gillespie writes: "I took a swing at Shearer but I was punch-drunk and inaccurate. He responded with a blow that sent me flying against a plant pot. I cracked my head and entered the blackout zone.

 

"The next thing I remember is the view from the hospital bed. There was no potential for long-term damage, so I was discharged and returned to the hotel to find that all the lads were out at a function."

 

He said that Shearer soon went to his room along with team-mate and friend Rob Lee.

 

Gillespie said: "Peace was restored before they had even come inside. We ended up laughing about it, although we knew a media storm was inevitable. Which was fair enough really.

 

"What else do you expect when the England captain knocks out a team-mate in broad daylight?" 

 

Giggs??

Link to post
Share on other sites
Village Idiot

Village Idiot

Posted
Posted

http://www.goal.com/en-my/news/3895/spain/2013/09/25/4287697/bale-better-than-neymar-says-real-madrid-wingers-agent?ICID=HP_BN_1

 

Gareth Bale is a better player than Barcelona forward Neymar, claims the Real Madrid winger's agent Jonathan Barnett.

 

The Wales international secured his £86 million move to the Spanish club from Tottenham in the summer transfer window, while Barcelona bolstered their attacking options with the acquisition of the 21-year-old Brazilian.

 

Neymar scored his first La Liga goal on Tuesday evening but Bale's representative believes the 24-year-old is ahead in terms of ability.

 

"Bale has played in the Premier League and has won a lot of trophies. For me, he's better than Neymar," Barnett told La Sexta.

 

???

 

I must have missed all those open top bus parades around Tottenham.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Fugazi

Fugazi

Posted
Posted

http://www.goal.com/en-my/news/3895/spain/2013/09/25/4287697/bale-better-than-neymar-says-real-madrid-wingers-agent?ICID=HP_BN_1

 

Gareth Bale is a better player than Barcelona forward Neymar, claims the Real Madrid winger's agent Jonathan Barnett.

 

The Wales international secured his £86 million move to the Spanish club from Tottenham in the summer transfer window, while Barcelona bolstered their attacking options with the acquisition of the 21-year-old Brazilian.

 

Neymar scored his first La Liga goal on Tuesday evening but Bale's representative believes the 24-year-old is ahead in terms of ability.

 

"Bale has played in the Premier League and has won a lot of trophies. For me, he's better than Neymar," Barnett told La Sexta.

 

???

 

I must have missed all those open top bus parades around Tottenham.

 

Proper hate that shit, "Renaldo iz wai betta than mesi coz he playd in da prmre leage"

Link to post
Share on other sites
Segun Oluwaniyi

Segun Oluwaniyi

Posted
Posted

Neymar has never had a period of consistent production in his career that matches what Bale accomplished the past two seasons. It is not outrageous to think Bale is the better footballer. Neymar clearly has the higher ceiling of ability between the two, but we must observe what he accomplishes in one of Europe's top leagues and at the World Cup before anointing him.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Village Idiot

Village Idiot

Posted
Posted

Neymar has never had a period of consistent production in his career that matches what Bale accomplished the past two seasons. It is not outrageous to think Bale is the better footballer. Neymar clearly has the higher ceiling of ability between the two, but we must observe what he accomplishes in one of Europe's top leagues and at the World Cup before anointing him.

 

Not true, Neymar has produced far more at both individual and team level than Bale. Problem is that he's done it in the Brazilian league, which raises some valid questions about his ability to do it in Europe.

 

Anyway, I posted that article because of the hilarious "trophies" mention, as if all those Player of the month/year awards meant owt in the game (and Neymar has more of those too, if we really wanted to compare).

Link to post
Share on other sites
Mole_Toonfan

Mole_Toonfan

Posted
Posted

Neymar has never had a period of consistent production in his career that matches what Bale accomplished the past two seasons. It is not outrageous to think Bale is the better footballer. Neymar clearly has the higher ceiling of ability between the two, but we must observe what he accomplishes in one of Europe's top leagues and at the World Cup before anointing him.

 

So his 26 goals and 18 assists in 42 games for Brazil don't count? Besides he's been consistently productive at club level his entire career.

 

And yes it is outrageous to say Bale is a better footballer... Neymar is a better passer, more skillful, better technique, more intelligent, better vision, better close control etc etc i could go on and on really.

 

You don't really need to prove anything or have stats to show whether you are a better footballer or not.... your ability on the pitch determines that and besides Neymar has been instrumental in beating some of the best national sides in the world.... but apparently it doesn't count because he's not PROVEN.  :jesuswept:

 

I don't care what Bale has done in England.... Neymar has been consistently brilliant at international level you know the highest level there is?

 

Also if you really want to go through this proven crap.... Neymar currently is joint top creator in Europe this season with Fabregas and only Ozil has assisted more goals in 2013.

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
Village Idiot

Village Idiot

Posted
Posted

Also if you really want to go through this proven crap.... Neymar currently is joint top creator in Europe this season with Fabregas and only Ozil has assisted more goals in 2013.

 

 

 

Aye, I have been most impressed by Neymar's passing game; didn't know he had that in his locker. Always had him for a more "run towards goal dancing through players" kind of forward.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Segun Oluwaniyi

Segun Oluwaniyi

Posted
Posted

Neymar has never had a period of consistent production in his career that matches what Bale accomplished the past two seasons. It is not outrageous to think Bale is the better footballer. Neymar clearly has the higher ceiling of ability between the two, but we must observe what he accomplishes in one of Europe's top leagues and at the World Cup before anointing him.

 

So his 26 goals and 18 assists in 42 games for Brazil don't count? Besides he's been consistently productive at club level his entire career.

 

And yes it is outrageous to say Bale is a better footballer... Neymar is a better passer, more skillful, better technique, more intelligent, better vision, better close control etc etc i could go on and on really.

 

You don't really need to prove anything or have stats to show whether you are a better footballer or not.... your ability on the pitch determines that and besides Neymar has been instrumental in beating some of the best national sides in the world.... but apparently it doesn't count because he's not PROVEN.  :jesuswept:

 

I don't care what Bale has done in England.... Neymar has been consistently brilliant at international level you know the highest level there is?

 

Also if you really want to go through this proven crap.... Neymar currently is joint top creator in Europe this season with Fabregas and only Ozil has assisted more goals in 2013.

 

 

Eighty percent of Neymar's goals at international level have come in friendlies. This is a symptom of circumstance and not the fault of Neymar, but I will not be told that what someone produces in money-grabbing friendlies against the likes of China and Iraq has an influence on their standing in the football world. Even the ones against top teams I care little about, Ikechukwu Uche scored a double against Argentina, so what?

 

I just cannot believe that you "do not care what Bale has done in England", but will happily take noncompetitive football as scripture in the gospel of Neymar. The Confederations Cup was fantastic and he showed well in this, but it is only six matches in one of the more lightly regarded international tournaments. This is like saying Gareth Bale is the world's best in 2011 because of one hattrick against Inter Milan.

 

The Brazilian league is a much weaker championship than the Premier League, which for all its faults is one of the most well funded and competitive championships in the world. This is simply a reality. Despite this, Bale has been just as productive as Neymar and just as influential to his sides. Neymar has more raw ability, plays the game in a more beautiful and intelligent way, and definitely can pass him in the future, but Bale has been a remarkably effective player. People enjoy dismissing his accomplishments for some reason I don't understand.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
 Share
Go to topic listing
×
×
  • Create New...