Wil Posted June 20, 2013 Share Posted June 20, 2013 Though sensationalist the Mirror story definitely has a ring of truth, in fact it could confirm a lot. Carr brings in technical players, Pardew is not the right coach to use them, which has been more than evident this season. Ashley doesn't know what's going on because he knows fuck all about football. So brings in trouble shooter JFK. No joined up thinking, no teamwork, from the beginning - and all because Ashley didn't employ a proper professional football executive to run the club in the first place but entrusted his then mate to do it. Chickens coming home to roost big time. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayson Posted June 20, 2013 Share Posted June 20, 2013 And our finances are nothing to shout about either so what exactly is Tollemaches point, I don't get it? We're not Pompey. That's it. That's enough for people like him. Overly harsh tbh Hes saying the less debt we have the more we can compete financially in the future & the more secure we are as a club as far as i can tell. Ashley may not have us as his main priority, but lessening our debt (As its now owed to him) and obviously improving our ability to get value for money when buying players is in his & our best interests also. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stottie Posted June 20, 2013 Share Posted June 20, 2013 Keegan won his constructive dismissal case so undermining Pardew to get him out would be daft. I've been hoping the 8 year contract was just to scare off the FA for England (already down to McLaren/Hodgson level) and didn't mean anything regarding compo for Pardew if we sacked him. Maybe that's not the case after all. The decline in Sissoko over just ten games was remarkable, so I know whose side I'd take in Carr vs. Pardew on player evaluations. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tollemache Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 woooahh what's this.... a banging of heads....? interpolic / your actual name: I'm sorry, I went out and got drunk just as you posted your point. Someone said "this better the devil you know thing is cowardice" and maybe they're right. But if this devil gives us a decent business footing I'm inclined at least to give him time to finish that job, even if he's shit at everything else. If I post pissed I'll dig myself a hole, no doubt about it, so that's my disclaimer: At end of day: I hope the best for the club, I like to see us making gestures that suggest a slightly detached, long-termist mentality which is exactly what was missing for most of the last 15 years (no sense of empire building, just a succession of managers backed in stupid, unsustainable ways), I cling to the hope that those involved can make the best of it, I think the best way to maximise the probability of that is to give them a chance and provide support, I'm horrified at the arrival of Kinnear and I hope that in some way it ends up making sense. This idea that there's a Pardew vs Carr dynamic we didn't know about maybe, just maybe makes sense of it - if Kinnear's basic function is as a superficial figurehead but in reality a mediator, then maybe that can work, because whatever happens we don't want to lose Carr, and I'm all for giving Pardew more rope, unpopular a view as that is. Just keep the whole thing bubbling along for a bit more and see what happens because we've only just put a team together and maybe it could be a good one. We could be sitting here in 2 years' time with 2 years of Carr gold under our belts, a settled side and bringing in the twat Kinnear was the only way it could work. It's *just* possible. And I'm not "supporting a balance sheet not a club", whoever said that .... I'm supporting a club and if you think a balance sheet is not very closely connected to its fortunes then you are a ridiculous nutcase. With the support we have, if we are a financially well-run, profitable enterprise for just a few years, the benefits will show on the pitch. No doubt about that at all. Argh, I'm tired of having to adopt this standpoint - I complain about Ashley to friends who are curious about Newcastle - but on here, I feel like I have to put the other side because there is no recognition whatsoever of anything but him being an enormous cunt out to destroy the club. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tollemache Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 And actually.... thinking it over If there was a clash between Pardew and Carr then absolutely the best thing I could imagine would be a token figurehead to make sure Carr's talent is not wasted while Pardew is given an excuse to be less concerned with transfers. The only more direct way of doing it would be to make Graham Carr Director of Football, which he probably doesn't want anyway and which would just cause open warfare. It could be that bringing in some clod just to fulfill that role is the most efficient way of getting manager and scout to work together. Now all they have to do is lock Kinnear in a dark room and make sure he never speaks to anyone in the media ever again. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nufcjb Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 Wow..nufc- your home of dramas for the summer Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
merlin Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 Though sensationalist the Mirror story definitely has a ring of truth, in fact it could confirm a lot. Carr brings in technical players, Pardew is not the right coach to use them, which has been more than evident this season. Ashley doesn't know what's going on because he knows f*** all about football. So brings in trouble shooter JFK. No joined up thinking, no teamwork, from the beginning - and all because Ashley didn't employ a proper professional football executive to run the club in the first place but entrusted his then mate to do it. Chickens coming home to roost big time. This sounds a very likely scenario - if it turns out to have any foundation, we are in serious trouble. Should Pardew be able to get Kinnear onside as he did with Llambias, we could lose a very good scout and end up playing Wimbledon-style football for the foreseeable future. That will do wonders for ST sales...NOT. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaKa Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 Pardew says the players aren't good enough and Carr says they are, and Ashley doesn't know football like that in order to make the call either way, and furthermore neither did Llambias. Hence he calls in Kinnear to determine what players he thinks are good enough from what we already have, and then from the ones we've targeted in the window already. Unfortunately, he's the only one he really knows who has experience of the game it seems. Now, its probably more likely that Kinnear is going to fall for the English player garb, however, the good thing is Carr is not himself foreign, and so Kinnear will hopefully take into account what he has to say, and give him some respect, and he'll hopefully be far more eloquent and convincing than the dopey manager we have in charge. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Consortium of one Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 Bringing in Kinnear to mediate a dispute is like bringing in a donkey to dust a china shop. Shit's gonna get broken. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zero Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 While sacking Pardew sounds like the easiest option available there, I do wonder if there is any manager or coach in the world that could cope with this system. People are assuming that a tactically brilliant manager should be able to utilize the players' signed by Carr. I have doubt over this. Usually it is the manager who have their preference and ask the scout to check them out, while occasionally the scout also provide a list of talents to the manager to consider. The manager has the right to decide whether the potential target suit his own style or team's needs. However what is happening, to me, is this is actually done by Carr himself and Pardew can just play the new comers even if he believes they couldn't perform what Pardew wants. This is a huge problem to me. Yes it is easy to say a tactically brilliant manager can solve it, but the truth is all the manager has his own style and it is more than just "short passing / hoof ball". Some managers' tactics are based on wingers (e.g. SAF), some requires excellent passer in the middle as well as great stamina to press (e.g. Barca style), some requires fucking pacy attackers to carry out counter attack (e.g. Mourinho). They have preferences. You can't fit Sissoko into Barca, Cisse definitely too slow for Mourinho, Cabaye probably would be another Carrick in Man Utd as well. Pardew should be sacked, Carr should stay, but the system has to change. The manager must have to have more say on transfers. We shouldn't only do bargaining deals. Sometimes if there is a player that the manager desperately need to bring in for his tactics, even if he is overpriced, the club should still go for it. An example is Joe Allen, definitely overpriced, and not performing that good in Liverpool, but he is actually a critical input for Rodgers to change the scousers playing style. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
loki679 Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 Sounds to me like Pards was trying to put the blame for last season on the players and Carr. I can kind of see what MA might be doing in that case, give him enough rope to hang himself. It would be easy for Pards to pull the wool over Mike and Dekkas eyes with regards to the quality of the playing side but not Carr. How can Mike decide who is right in that case? He can't, he knows sod all about football. What's the solution? Bring in someone with good knowledge and experience in the game who Mike trusts to mediate and give him a definitive, unbiased, objective opinion. So far so good, it actually sounds like a very good plan. Unfortunately for us the only football man Mike knows and trusts is JFK which, obviously, is where the whole thing goes to shit. If Rene Girard had been a regular at Ashley's local instead of Captain Makebelieve then we'd probably be feeling pretty good about this. On the plus side, there is a million to one chance that JFK isn't a total ballsack and will back Carr's judgement, possibly meaning the end of the road for laughing boy. Hell, if he just flips a coin between them we've got a 50/50 chance of coming out of it ok. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest chopey Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 There is nothing wrong with our players its all down to Pardew anyone who goes to the matches on a regular basis can see that, 1 goal at home since 11 march No goals scored from a corner in almost 2 years floating crosses in to the far post from set pieces doesn't work........end of Long balls over the midfield resulting in Cisse either offside or he cant hold it up every single player in the box when defending set pieces when we do manage to score a fluky last minute goal and win pardew struts around like he is Pep guardiola playing players out of position No plan B Kinnear and Pardew are clowns and must leave our club I would take no new signings and a new manager rather than spend £60 million and have these two stay Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paully Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 The new Bar sign is up! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 Dunno if this was actually posted on Monday but there was a copy of that day's paper in the takeaway last night. I can't find a decent sized version of the back page online but they appeared to have an up to date image of Kinnear: http://i.imgur.com/oqcKcyr.jpg Should have taken a photo on my phone, the fucker looks like Pat Butcher. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elliottman Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 Thats him? I thought you were taking this piss and they'd put the wrong photo up. Jesus. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interpolic Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 And actually.... thinking it over If there was a clash between Pardew and Carr then absolutely the best thing I could imagine would be a token figurehead to make sure Carr's talent is not wasted while Pardew is given an excuse to be less concerned with transfers. The only more direct way of doing it would be to make Graham Carr Director of Football, which he probably doesn't want anyway and which would just cause open warfare. It could be that bringing in some clod just to fulfill that role is the most efficient way of getting manager and scout to work together. Now all they have to do is lock Kinnear in a dark room and make sure he never speaks to anyone in the media ever again. You're definitely not determined to defend Ashley no matter what, yet you're on here defending the Kinnear appointment. I thought it was the first move of Ashley's that you couldn't in any way defend, but you've managed it pretty sharpish. You couldn't make it up. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lotus Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 Pardew said that he approved of all the incoming transfers. That no players were brought in unless he 100% agreed with them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilson Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 Pardew said ....... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
huss9 Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 not easy to find a better scout, but a better manager/coach wouldn't be hard to spot. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Geordie Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 Not sure if this has been posted yet; Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skirge Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 not easy to find a better scout, but a better manager/coach wouldn't be hard to spot. A manager who would accept that the scout has more say on his squad than him, who would take the job under those conditions, not to mention now the JFK factor. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrettNUFC Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 not easy to find a better scout, but a better manager/coach wouldn't be hard to spot. A manager who would accept that the scout has more say on his squad than him, who would take the job under those conditions, not to mention now the JFK factor. That's certainly my stance on why i don't want Pardew gone, just can't see other managers around who can work under the conditions given. It certainly doesn't make it any easier for the manager knowing he doesn't have much control or have a big say within the club. The JFK makes things even worse. I wouldn't trust MA to pick me a sandwich let alone pick Newcastle's next manager ever again. Hope Pardew stays as long as he is here to stop from any further embarrassment appointments. Once new owners come in, i’ll be more than happy to join the Pardew out brigade and shift him on for someone a hell of a lot better. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanshithispantz Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 I went out and got drunk just as you posted your point. You can tell. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tollemache Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 And actually.... thinking it over If there was a clash between Pardew and Carr then absolutely the best thing I could imagine would be a token figurehead to make sure Carr's talent is not wasted while Pardew is given an excuse to be less concerned with transfers. The only more direct way of doing it would be to make Graham Carr Director of Football, which he probably doesn't want anyway and which would just cause open warfare. It could be that bringing in some clod just to fulfill that role is the most efficient way of getting manager and scout to work together. Now all they have to do is lock Kinnear in a dark room and make sure he never speaks to anyone in the media ever again. You're definitely not determined to defend Ashley no matter what, yet you're on here defending the Kinnear appointment. I thought it was the first move of Ashley's that you couldn't in any way defend, but you've managed it pretty sharpish. You couldn't make it up. I've said time and time again that I think bringing in Kinnear is very daft indeed. What I did there was to try to make some sense of the rationale behind it, which I've so far failed to do, but in the light of this stuff about Pardew vs Carr, some new possibilities emerge and it's interesting to discuss them. The idea that he's there solely to act as a buffer and isn't actually here to run the football club is about the most positive spin you can put on it. It *could* be that bringing in some clod to fulfill that role is the most efficient way of getting manager and scout to work together - that doesn't translate to "right, I've decided that bringing Joe Kinnear in was the right decision". Does it. No. Again, you seem desperate to maintain your image of me as someone who will defend everything Ashley does. So let me recap just to be clear: - I would sooner have Joe Kinnear nowhere near NUFC. He is a buffoon. Appointing him is a bad idea and I've found it impossible to make sense of. - If he is here purely to stop Pardew and Carr's disagreements bringing the club to a grinding standstill rather than to function as a true Director of Football, that is the best case scenario under these circumstances, and it is just about possible that bringing in some token 3rd guy (though ideally not Kinnear) might be the easiest/best way to sort out the Pardew / Carr thing. Is that clear? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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