Sunderland

[Andymc1]

Even if we had a quality squad and a cup challenging team I wouldn't go back. We've sold our souls as a fan base, and we've happily allowed ourselves to become commercialised beyond return. The state of that ground is an utter joke with SD plastered everywhere and those signs wont disappear until Mike Ashley does.

[TRC]

Can we talk about Sunderland again?

[Stifler]

Everyone has to admit that this summer the club is going in the right direction, not only with players brough in, a new manager (which was forced), but also the support given to McClaren to bring in his own coaching staff.

 

There is a long way to go before I'm convinced that the club is heading in the right direction, it can all be quickly undone. I am encouraged though by the signs and you have to let those who are wanting to go back to games because of these signs the ability to do so without being ridiculed. If things start going back the way they were then no doubt these supporters will stop going again.

Voting with your feet works both ways.

[Pav]

Honestly don't see the appeal in home games, only been to SJP once since the Leazes Corner was closed. Our home fans are awful, the atmosphere is nonexistent. Even our away support seems to have gone down hill. Says a lot about the type of fans who've packed it in iyam.

[Figures 1-0 Football]

Aye, the club hasn't changed the way it's being ran at all. They were f***ing s*** and nearly got relegated, so we signed the bare minimum amount of players so we can achieve that cushy mid table. Next season it'll look like we're ready to "push on" and "challenge for something", and we'll sign absolutely f***ing no-one, sell 1 or 2, and we'll be s*** again.

 

Well it clearly has. The Cups will be taken seriously for a start (If you believe McClaren - I've got no reason not too).

 

The players signed are of a better quality than we've signed in the last few years. You say bare minimum yet we've got more options and a stronger bench than anytime I can remember in the last.... f*** knows how long.

 

We still need more, which is why I said I'll wait and see what they do in the next 6-12 months. But there's clearly been a change in mentality, in my opinion.

 

a) We've got about 7 years of reasons not to believe those running the club. McClaren may be new, but he knows exactly who he's working for.

 

b) I don't believe they're of better quality than a lot of the players we've signed and then shipped out, and our bench is not massively dissimilar to the bench during the start of last season. But we have no depth, as you say, so in a month or so time, it'll be f***ing s*** once again.

 

c) There hasn't been a change in mentality, as shown by the fact we've already stopped looking at players for this window on the basis that the squad is already full enough (of Williamsons, Obertans and Gouffrans). Nothing has changed.

 

a) Agree

b) I disagree with this entirely, I think we do have depth - when we have a fully fit squad we are able to field a strong 11 and also have the likes of Darlow, Saylor, Dummett, Perez, Aarons, SDJ, Cisse knocking on the door to get into the squad. Behind that you have shit players like Williamson, Obertan, Gouf - but so does every club. They are third/fourth choice in some circumstances. Liverpool's third choice midfielder is Joe Allen for example.

c) I would be very interested to see if Williamson is sold (if a buyer can be found) whether or not another player is bought in, if that is the case then you are wrong. Fact is, because nobody has bought anyone of us - this point cant be tested.

 

I think the club have made big strides this season, I'll never be fully satisfied until MA has gone but with no realistic prospect of that happening then I am hoping for the best possible outcome with him at the club. If at the end of the season we finish 10th with a half decent cup run, but then make no new additions and go backwards again - you are spot on. I don't think that will happen though, I genuinely think the club have turned a corner - possibly because MA is more of a sleeping partner now and (apparently) not so involved.

 

Maybe I'm wrong, maybe you are right - only time will tell.

Don't understand the whole not attending and attacking people who do attend. If you don't want to go, don't go - but why moan at others who do go?

No amount of protesting will convince MA to sell the club, I've said it all along. I feel the Ashley Out campaign had a positive influence in the changes this summer, but it will not make MA sell.

[ian]

don't go to home games...don't go to away games!....got some neck kidda.....says more about you than them    I reckon

[Andymc1]

don't go to home games...don't go to away games!....got some neck kidda.....says more about you than them    I reckon

 

I think he was actually referring to the fans who used to make SJP a real atmospheric place to go and watch football. The same fans who made away trips enjoyable with constant singing and not just a bunch of kids dressed in stone island.

 

A lot of the old school crowd don't go to either now, and those are the people who went for decades. They used to go in the "real bad times" as we keep on being told, but even they haven't got the stomach to put up with the current shambles.

 

I've got massive respect for those who've packed in, for a lot of people who I know it certainly wasn't/isn't an easy decision to make. For those who continue to go, it makes me sad, but it is their decision and I try not to get too wound up by their determination to destroy the club.

 

 

[SEMTEX]

Aye, the club hasn't changed the way it's being ran at all. They were f***ing s*** and nearly got relegated, so we signed the bare minimum amount of players so we can achieve that cushy mid table. Next season it'll look like we're ready to "push on" and "challenge for something", and we'll sign absolutely f***ing no-one, sell 1 or 2, and we'll be s*** again.

 

Well it clearly has. The Cups will be taken seriously for a start (If you believe McClaren - I've got no reason not too).

 

The players signed are of a better quality than we've signed in the last few years. You say bare minimum yet we've got more options and a stronger bench than anytime I can remember in the last.... f*** knows how long.

 

We still need more, which is why I said I'll wait and see what they do in the next 6-12 months. But there's clearly been a change in mentality, in my opinion.

 

a) We've got about 7 years of reasons not to believe those running the club. McClaren may be new, but he knows exactly who he's working for.

 

b) I don't believe they're of better quality than a lot of the players we've signed and then shipped out, and our bench is not massively dissimilar to the bench during the start of last season. But we have no depth, as you say, so in a month or so time, it'll be f***ing s*** once again.

 

c) There hasn't been a change in mentality, as shown by the fact we've already stopped looking at players for this window on the basis that the squad is already full enough (of Williamsons, Obertans and Gouffrans). Nothing has changed.

 

a) Agree

b) I disagree with this entirely, I think we do have depth - when we have a fully fit squad we are able to field a strong 11 and also have the likes of Darlow, Saylor, Dummett, Perez, Aarons, SDJ, Cisse knocking on the door to get into the squad. Behind that you have shit players like Williamson, Obertan, Gouf - but so does every club. They are third/fourth choice in some circumstances. Liverpool's third choice midfielder is Joe Allen for example.

c) I would be very interested to see if Williamson is sold (if a buyer can be found) whether or not another player is bought in, if that is the case then you are wrong. Fact is, because nobody has bought anyone of us - this point cant be tested.

 

I think the club have made big strides this season, I'll never be fully satisfied until MA has gone but with no realistic prospect of that happening then I am hoping for the best possible outcome with him at the club. If at the end of the season we finish 10th with a half decent cup run, but then make no new additions and go backwards again - you are spot on. I don't think that will happen though, I genuinely think the club have turned a corner - possibly because MA is more of a sleeping partner now and (apparently) not so involved.

 

Maybe I'm wrong, maybe you are right - only time will tell.

Don't understand the whole not attending and attacking people who do attend. If you don't want to go, don't go - but why moan at others who do go?

No amount of protesting will convince MA to sell the club, I've said it all along. I feel the Ashley Out campaign had a positive influence in the changes this summer, but it will not make MA sell.

 

I'm done with "time will tell". We've been here before.

 

The depth is almost identical to the start of last season. In the summer we added a AM, Striker, CB and Winger, we sold a CM and an AM. We also sold Yanga-Mbiwa and Santon last January. And that's ignoring the fact that at the start of last season, Riviere and Gouffran were classified as reasonable or untested players (much like our new signings are now).

[Guest Recoba]

To those who stay away for various reasons... you are not missed!

 

You did miss Thauvin play a blinder last night though.  Home debut of a potential NUFC legend.  I had a great time.

 

At least you can feel good about yourself for taking a stand, but what are you achieving?  No one but you gives a s*** about your feelings.

 

http://www.raisingsheep.net/uploads/1/3/5/3/13538303/6594421.jpg?442

 

These lot agree with you.

 

Life is short mate.  Enjoy yourself while you are able to.

 

Sounds like a threat. Watch your letterbox Dr S

 

I might as well go and wire my own jaw now, get it out the way.

 

Not a threat, just having seen a couple of mates die in their 20s due to different reasons, you realise the futility of making a stand when your actions carry no weight, and see the benefit of spending time with your mates rather than watching it alone on a laptop...

 

For me going to the match is a social experience, I see various family and friends I may not as easily see otherwise.

[Pav]

don't go to home games...don't go to away games!....got some neck kidda.....says more about you than them    I reckon

 

I think he was actually referring to the fans who used to make SJP a real atmospheric place to go and watch football. The same fans who made away trips enjoyable with constant singing and not just a bunch of kids dressed in stone island.

 

A lot of the old school crowd don't go to either now, and those are the people who went for decades. They used to go in the "real bad times" as we keep on being told, but even they haven't got the stomach to put up with the current shambles.

 

I've got massive respect for those who've packed in, for a lot of people who I know it certainly wasn't/isn't an easy decision to make. For those who continue to go, it makes me sad, but it is their decision and I try not to get too wound up by their determination to destroy the club.

 

 

 

Spot on Andy. As a teenager I wasted most my money on season tickets as well as the flags that hung up in level 7. I used to turn up to every game early just to hang flags and banners up. The whole movement around the time - Leazes L7 and then the Leazes Corner - it really felt like we were playing a part in supporting the club. It was a real grassroots effort to improve the atmosphere in SJP. Still sickens me to this day the way the corner was closed by Ashley, and what do we have now? A huge family enclosure to ensure the gates don't drop too much thanks to the cheap tickets on offer.

 

There's a huge disconnect between the fans and club these days, it isn't the same. The support has changed, and the reasons I went to football - the atmosphere, "the feeling of belonging" - as SBR so brilliantly put it - seem to be fading fast. Plenty of fans are happy for the club to continuously take the piss out of them, at the end of the day they just want to watch some football. That's fine, but for me that's not what football's all about.

[Iwantcurlyhair2]

Love reading this forum and don't often post, however:-

 

I am 46 years old and can't remember the Joe Harvey days that well as I only went to reserve games with my dad back then. I do however remember Gordon Lee, Richard Dinnis, Bill McGarry, Liam McFaul, Jim Smith, Souness, Roeder, Sam, Pardew etc. etc. etc.

 

By my calculation I have enjoyed 8-10 years out of 46 and lived through 20 years of sack the board under various regimes. Keegan days were unbelievable and Bobby days were great, the rest have had zero entertainment.

 

I didn't want McClaren by choice however we are potentially on the cusp of something special - ENTERTAINMENT. I was less than a week old when we won the Fairs Cup and wouldn't be surprised if we never won anything in my lifetime but I only want to be entertained. I love nothing more than living in my 90 minute bubble at St James with my family, and being entertained. Last night and the Southampton game before gave me optimism that the McClaren set up is going to be fun.

 

We have people continually posting about not going back, people who go have sold out to Ashley, Ashley out. Well face some facts - He's going to go when he wants to go and he doesn't care about whether we are there or not. Sir John Hall made in excess of 100m out of us in the 90's. What was the difference - Entertainment. The Keegan days lined Sit John's pockets and Freddy's pocket as did the Bobby times. All these guys are after the same end goal of making money, they just have different ways of going about it. I believe the manager is key to whether we enjoy it or not and I have rated 8 years out of the past 40 odd as being well managed. I do believe we are entering a time of further entertainment and I for one are going to ride the wave.

 

25000 people last night were entertained. Those who have decided not to go back it's your prerogative. Take note though. If it works well the ground will fill again and you may well miss your chance. The ground will fill with 52000 glory hunters and the 'proper fans' will end up bitter and twisted and forum posting because they can't get tickets.

 

I am now waiting for the Sheff Wed tickets to come out to join the other 25000 fans who want enjoy themselves again and we will be in our seats for Arsenal. I haven't felt this way since Bobby left. It's great being positive again. It may be short lived but so what.

 

We were no different then either. If I remember rightly the crowd wasn't any bigger when we failed CL qualification against Zagreb.

 

Looking forward to this season and going to enjoy every minute if the promise of entertainment is borne out. Don't cut your nose off to spite your face. Stuff the hierarchy - support the team and let them put a smile on your face.

 

I'm going to enjoy it - I might as well as I might be too old or even dead by the next time!

[SEMTEX]

Plenty of fans are happy for the club to continuously take the piss out of them, at the end of the day they just want to watch some football. That's fine, but for me that's not what football's all about.

 

Aye but tbf, if they didn't go to the match it'd be impossible for them to see their BEST mates and 2nd cousin once-removed. Where else can they have a quiet natter about fat uncle gaz and his latest relapse?

[SEMTEX]

It may be short lived but so what.

 

 

[Elliottman]

Plenty of fans are happy for the club to continuously take the p*ss out of them, at the end of the day they just want to watch some football. That's fine, but for me that's not what football's all about.

 

Aye but tbf, if they didn't go to the match it'd be impossible for them to see their BEST mates and 2nd cousin once-removed. Where else can they have a quiet natter about fat uncle gaz and his latest relapse?

 

What about those who are happy that the club's starting to act like a football club again? are they allowed to go back?

[SEMTEX]

You're all free to do what you want. The same freedom I have to think you're a massive part of the problem.

[Figures 1-0 Football]

Plenty of fans are happy for the club to continuously take the p*ss out of them, at the end of the day they just want to watch some football. That's fine, but for me that's not what football's all about.

 

Aye but tbf, if they didn't go to the match it'd be impossible for them to see their BEST mates and 2nd cousin once-removed. Where else can they have a quiet natter about fat uncle gaz and his latest relapse?

 

What about those who are happy that the club's starting to act like a football club again? are they allowed to go back?

 

No because you are not a proper fan if you go to games, not until it's been declared acceptable on twitter.

You're killing the club, paying for a ticket and sitting on a seat is killing the club.

[Wallsendmag]

Love reading this forum and don't often post, however:-

 

I am 46 years old and can't remember the Joe Harvey days that well as I only went to reserve games with my dad back then. I do however remember Gordon Lee, Richard Dinnis, Bill McGarry, Liam McFaul, Jim Smith, Souness, Roeder, Sam, Pardew etc. etc. etc.

 

By my calculation I have enjoyed 8-10 years out of 46 and lived through 20 years of sack the board under various regimes. Keegan days were unbelievable and Bobby days were great, the rest have had zero entertainment.

 

I didn't want McClaren by choice however we are potentially on the cusp of something special - ENTERTAINMENT. I was less than a week old when we won the Fairs Cup and wouldn't be surprised if we never won anything in my lifetime but I only want to be entertained. I love nothing more than living in my 90 minute bubble at St James with my family, and being entertained. Last night and the Southampton game before gave me optimism that the McClaren set up is going to be fun.

 

We have people continually posting about not going back, people who go have sold out to Ashley, Ashley out. Well face some facts - He's going to go when he wants to go and he doesn't care about whether we are there or not. Sir John Hall made in excess of 100m out of us in the 90's. What was the difference - Entertainment. The Keegan days lined Sit John's pockets and Freddy's pocket as did the Bobby times. All these guys are after the same end goal of making money, they just have different ways of going about it. I believe the manager is key to whether we enjoy it or not and I have rated 8 years out of the past 40 odd as being well managed. I do believe we are entering a time of further entertainment and I for one are going to ride the wave.

 

25000 people last night were entertained. Those who have decided not to go back it's your prerogative. Take note though. If it works well the ground will fill again and you may well miss your chance. The ground will fill with 52000 glory hunters and the 'proper fans' will end up bitter and twisted and forum posting because they can't get tickets.

 

I am now waiting for the Sheff Wed tickets to come out to join the other 25000 fans who want enjoy themselves again and we will be in our seats for Arsenal. I haven't felt this way since Bobby left. It's great being positive again. It may be short lived but so what.

 

We were no different then either. If I remember rightly the crowd wasn't any bigger when we failed CL qualification against Zagreb.

 

Looking forward to this season and going to enjoy every minute if the promise of entertainment is borne out. Don't cut your nose off to spite your face. Stuff the hierarchy - support the team and let them put a smile on your face.

 

I'm going to enjoy it - I might as well as I might be too old or even dead by the next time!

 

Good post apart from where you state there's similarities between Ashley and Sir John Hall. When SJH took control we were on the bones of our arses, heading for the 3rd division for the 1st time in our history and playing in a ramshackle old ground where the majority of fans got soaked to the skin when it rained.  He put his money where his mouth was,  brought back Kevin Keegan, broke the world record transfer fee, gave us Champions League football, brought us to within a fannys hair from the league title and one of the best stadiums in Europe. I don't begrudge the bloke a penny of whatever he took out.

 

Ashley on the other hand........

[triggs]

Love reading this forum and don't often post, however:-

 

I am 46 years old and can't remember the Joe Harvey days that well as I only went to reserve games with my dad back then. I do however remember Gordon Lee, Richard Dinnis, Bill McGarry, Liam McFaul, Jim Smith, Souness, Roeder, Sam, Pardew etc. etc. etc.

 

By my calculation I have enjoyed 8-10 years out of 46 and lived through 20 years of sack the board under various regimes. Keegan days were unbelievable and Bobby days were great, the rest have had zero entertainment.

 

I didn't want McClaren by choice however we are potentially on the cusp of something special - ENTERTAINMENT. I was less than a week old when we won the Fairs Cup and wouldn't be surprised if we never won anything in my lifetime but I only want to be entertained. I love nothing more than living in my 90 minute bubble at St James with my family, and being entertained. Last night and the Southampton game before gave me optimism that the McClaren set up is going to be fun.

 

We have people continually posting about not going back, people who go have sold out to Ashley, Ashley out. Well face some facts - He's going to go when he wants to go and he doesn't care about whether we are there or not. Sir John Hall made in excess of 100m out of us in the 90's. What was the difference - Entertainment. The Keegan days lined Sit John's pockets and Freddy's pocket as did the Bobby times. All these guys are after the same end goal of making money, they just have different ways of going about it. I believe the manager is key to whether we enjoy it or not and I have rated 8 years out of the past 40 odd as being well managed. I do believe we are entering a time of further entertainment and I for one are going to ride the wave.

 

25000 people last night were entertained. Those who have decided not to go back it's your prerogative. Take note though. If it works well the ground will fill again and you may well miss your chance. The ground will fill with 52000 glory hunters and the 'proper fans' will end up bitter and twisted and forum posting because they can't get tickets.

 

I am now waiting for the Sheff Wed tickets to come out to join the other 25000 fans who want enjoy themselves again and we will be in our seats for Arsenal. I haven't felt this way since Bobby left. It's great being positive again. It may be short lived but so what.

 

We were no different then either. If I remember rightly the crowd wasn't any bigger when we failed CL qualification against Zagreb.

 

Looking forward to this season and going to enjoy every minute if the promise of entertainment is borne out. Don't cut your nose off to spite your face. Stuff the hierarchy - support the team and let them put a smile on your face.

 

I'm going to enjoy it - I might as well as I might be too old or even dead by the next time!

Nice post

[Elliottman]

You're all free to do what you want. The same freedom I have to think you're a massive part of the problem.

 

What should the club do to convince you it's now running like a proper club again?

 

I've never expected Newcastle to be perfect, I just wanted them to try. A Lot of that was aimed towards the cups. I've never expected them to quality for CL but I didn't want them giving up the league in January. Waffa place should certainly be targeted.  communication has improved/is improving.

 

I'm sceptical but I'm willing to look at it for what it is.

 

 

[Stray Mackem]

I thought this was a Sunderland thread

 

The mighty Exeter dispatched in a 9 goal thriller. Man City next 

[Interpolic]

Fuck off.

[Interpolic]

jk

[SEMTEX]

You're all free to do what you want. The same freedom I have to think you're a massive part of the problem.

 

What should the club do to convince you it's now running like a proper club again?

 

I've never expected Newcastle to be perfect, I just wanted them to try. A Lot of that was aimed towards the cups. I've never expected them to quality for CL but I didn't want them giving up the league in January. Waffa place should certainly be targeted.  communication has improved/is improving.

 

I'm sceptical but I'm willing to look at it for what it is.

 

 

 

I would be very surprised if I could ever be convinced that Mike Ashley is trying to run us like a proper club. But if we're excluding his departure/demise, maybe 3+ years of consistently attempting to compete would be nice? Either way, a fuckload more than 1 reasonable transfer window and a league cup win at home against Northampton Town.

[Guest Recoba]

When you are on your deathbed, will you lie back and think "I'm glad I didn't go to the match all those years."

 

Regrets are shit.

[captainhaircut]

When you are on your deathbed, will you lie back and think "I'm glad I didn't go to the match all those years."

 

Regrets are shit.

 

You could easily regret all the time spend watching us be shit and being miserable though. I often wonder if I would be a happier person if I didn't watch sport.