The Managerial Merry Go Round™

[James]

  On 26/01/2022 at 22:16, midds said:

Everton is a strange one. Moshiri has pumped about half a billion into them over the last few years, struggle to see what more he could have done realistically. That cash was squandered by a number of people, they are the ones who need to feel the blast, not the one who trusted them to spend it. Moshiri should be last in line to get the shit.

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Channel 4 did a piece on him a few years ago. None of the money is his they claimed - he was just a puppet - and now it seems the puppetmaster has lost interest.

[Geogaddi]

  On 26/01/2022 at 20:52, joeyt said:

 

On shite players though

 

Surely we aren't in any position to criticise other fans protesting against their owners

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We criticised Ashley for having no ambition and hardly spending any money , the Everton bloke has done the exact opposite , fair enough it’s been spent on shite but that’s totally different to having no ambition and trying to improve the club. Everton fans are basically protesting at a bloke that has spent millions trying to improve them . Imagine how they would act if Ashley had been the owner .

 

 

Edited January 27, 2022 by Geogaddi

[Clockwork Cheese]

  On 26/01/2022 at 22:13, The Bonk said:

 

Remember watching them tumble out of the CL early on under Moyes, when Everton were more tolerable. 

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Villareal side with Riquelme, Forlan, Senna knocked them out in Qualifiers - then went on to the Semis. 

 

They were an embarrassment in the EL in 2017; Atalanta smashed them 3-0 at home, then schooled them 5-1 at Goodison. Lost to Lyon 3-0 and 2-1, only managed to beat Limassol! 

 

 

Edited January 27, 2022 by Clockwork Cheese

[Guest neesy111]

I find it weird people just laughing at Everton for any reason, we should be ensuring we are learning lessons on making sure we don't follow the same path as them as it could happen with a few wrong appointments etc.

[Guest]

So far so good though? Think the issue with Everton's owners is they'd have probably spent the £100-110m for Carlos & Botman for example. We're so far not doing that.

[Hanshithispantz]

I find the Everton hate all round a bit overboard like 

 

[Guest]

I think we only hate them because they hate us, like.

[Jaqen]

 

 

  On 27/01/2022 at 07:03, Geogaddi said:

We criticised Ashley for having no ambition and hardly spending any money , the Everton bloke has done the exact opposite , fair enough it’s been spent on shite but that’s totally different to having no ambition and trying to improve the club. Everton fans are basically protesting at a bloke that has spent millions trying to improve them . Imagine how they would act if Ashley had been the owner .

 

 

 

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Their last two managerial appointments have been Ancelotti and Rafa as well. The latter was a bit misguided giving the Liverpool connection but they've definitely not lacked ambition. 

 

Whilst they've wasted money they brought in a fair bit of quality as well. Having your most expensive signing unable to play for noncing hasn't helped, like. 

[Clockwork Cheese]

Totally forgot Sigurdsson even existed!

 

Never a £50M odd signing though, couldn't believe they paid Swansea that at the time. That was the window were it all started to go to shit for them real quick - buying three players that wanted to play 10 as well as Sandro that was awful. 

[joeyt]

  On 27/01/2022 at 07:03, Geogaddi said:

We criticised Ashley for having no ambition and hardly spending any money , the Everton bloke has done the exact opposite , fair enough it’s been spent on shite but that’s totally different to having no ambition and trying to improve the club. Everton fans are basically protesting at a bloke that has spent millions trying to improve them . Imagine how they would act if Ashley had been the owner .

 

 

 

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So Everton fans should just suck it up and not protest because he's spent money despite their club being a laughing stock? Man Utd fans protest and the Glazers have spent money, are they wrong to do that?

 

It would be like Bury fans saying we shouldn't have protested against Ashley

[leffe186]

  On 26/01/2022 at 20:11, Anderson said:

 

Should be European nights   they've only ever won 2 European Cup matches in their history (50 years ago), including qualifiers.  

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To be fair, they’ve already been denied European nights that they should have had due to their arch-rivals killing some guys. To be even fairer, they also should have been relegated on more than one occasion.

 

if they go down this year it will be hilarious. Can’t see it, but one can dream.

[Kid Icarus]

  On 27/01/2022 at 11:07, ManDoon said:

Go on their forum and you’ll change your mind. 

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'First they came for Leeds and I did nothing, because I don't like Leeds'

 

You could say the same about here, or RTG, or any forum. OTT Tribalism's killing any fan solidarity, in the same way it's happening in wider society. Clubs being ruined left right and centre, with fans of other clubs going 'lol, fuck you' either not realising or not caring that they're on the same menu.

[Dr.Spaceman]

  On 27/01/2022 at 11:13, Kid Icarus said:

 

'First they came for Leeds and I did nothing, because I don't like Leeds'

 

You could say the same about here, or RTG, or any forum. OTT Tribalism's killing any fan solidarity, in the same way it's happening in wider society. Clubs being ruined left right and centre, with fans of other clubs going 'lol, fuck you' either not realising or not caring that they're on the same menu.

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You've got to be a special kind of bell-end to laugh in the face of any fan who's witnessed / witnessing their club being destroyed. Everton's club is not being destroyed, they're going through a rough patch and will no doubt come out the other side absolutely fine. Even if they're relegated in the next year or so they'll do what we did, bounce straight back and still have a club to support.

 

What happened at Leeds is completely different.

[Colos Short and Curlies]

For me Everton are in the awkward position where they are not big enough to just spend there way through a changing landscape but are too big and established to quickly react to it, and are therefore finding themselves lost.

 

The likes of Brighton have adopted a fresh approach to how to structure a club and are able to take a punt on players as their expectations have been low interms of final position (even a relegation and quick re promotion wouldn't hurt them). They are thriving compared to recent years performance.

 

Wolves took on a structure with a major agent driving activity, its worked.

 

Leicester, say no more.

 

Then the likes of City and Chelsea just buy the best to keep ahead.

 

Man Utd have fallen behind in structure but have/had enough in the bank to just about keep up.

 

Palace, Arsenal, Spurs to varying degrees are treading water

 

Everton, Us (although that was by design in many ways) have not adapted with the times. Ashley went for a minimalist approach, Everton have thrown money at a problem without addressing the real core of the club. The money has run out and they have no strategic direction. They are in real danger of going down, and even if they survive it will take a stroke of genius/ big balls or a series of lucky strikes to turn it around. 

[Kid Icarus]

  On 27/01/2022 at 11:18, Dr.Spaceman said:

 

You've got to be a special kind of bell-end to laugh in the face of any fan who's witnessed / witnessing their club being destroyed. Everton's club is not being destroyed, they're going through a rough patch and will no doubt come out the other side absolutely fine. Even if they're relegated in the next year or so they'll do what we did, bounce straight back and still have a club to support.

 

What happened at Leeds is completely different.

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I agree that the situations are different, but I think they're just a variation on the same theme of clubs being ruined in a variety of ways. I'd argue Man United is being ruined as well, in a completely different way again.

We were ruined in a completely different way to all of those clubs and had the same 'but Leeds/Portsmouth/Bury!' thrown at us as a reason why our complaints were somehow illegitimate, so I completely support the Everton fans for being pissed off over their club's version of mismanagement. I also wouldn't take those banners or their forum as a fan litmus test in the same way I wouldn't want other fans to do the same with Steve Wraith or the 'buoycott' protesters. 

I might be a bit bias though, my grandad was a proper salt of the earth scouser 

[sixx]

Just looked through who Everton have signed the last few seasons. Dear me. Looks like they spent almost 100 million on Iwobi, Walcott and Gbamin (who?). You can't really fault them for trying. They've also had two managers recently in the world class bracket but fuck me their recruitment is abysmal. Really seems they have a preference in buying from other PL clubs. 

[Kid Icarus]

  On 27/01/2022 at 11:33, ManDoon said:

I mean yeah but if there is no tribalism in football what is the point? I personally wouldn't care if Sunderland went into admin. Their support on the whole is gross to me, so I’m not arsed.
 

Same way I don’t think we need ‘solidarity’ with Everton when they’ve spent the last ten years telling anyone who will listen that we are “deluded. I agreed with the Man U and Arsenal protests but fuck taking the high road with them. Find them in the wild on any r/soccer post about Newcastle. 

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There's tribalism and piss taking and then there's what you're saying there, which is the part that I think is OTT and what I'm getting at. I've said this so many times, but we complain about how we're misrepresented by other fans and the media then go and do exactly the same thing about other clubs and their fans because we've decided they're all gross because of RTG or that they're getting what they deserve because you've seen it on Reddit.

I just think it's very hypocritical and is getting more and more widespread across the fanbases. Fans resort to that sort of tribalism, or resort to arguing amongst themselves while these owners are ruining the game we all love. 

[Chicken Dancer]

Everton have just chucked money at it without a real plan. They've hired 2 DOF to my knowledge - Walsh from Leicester & Brands? It's still not worked, signing 3 CAMs one window alongside players who would be perceived risky was always a recipe for disaster.

 

I think if you want to be successful you need longevity and a clear plan. You may have a season or two where expectations aren't met, but unless it gets really bad, I'm all for sticking to a specific manager/coach for a prolonged who is on the same page as the appointed DOF with a clear plan in place. Even if you change manager, as long as your plan/project/ethos fits with a new manager, then eventually you will see the rewards. See Man City - they were successful under Mancini & Pellegrini, but they've went up about 5 gears since they've had Guardiola. Leicester too - when they've had bad seasons where they've changed manager, but the plan is generally adhered to with a new man in charge.

 

Like someone above touched on, there's a lot our owners can learn, specifically from Everton. To be fair, the players we have been (strongly) linked with seem to be targeting areas we desperately need improvement in, which I think is very encouraging, despite no DOF or proper structure in place yet.

 

PS Fuck Everton. 

[Kid Icarus]

  On 27/01/2022 at 11:49, ManDoon said:

What other gauge do you have to make an opinion? I can only go off the interactions I’ve seen/had.
 

They aren’t going into administration, simply protesting the fact they are gash, if there is no schadenfreude in football it’s going to get pretty dull pretty quickly. I support their right to protest but also my own right to laugh at them and find it funny. Don’t always have to take the high road on every single topic. There is no serious threat to their club long term, they might go down, as we did. I’m not washing energy defending people who don’t like us, what’s the point. They’ll be fine, maybe a dose of bad times will

Open up their perspectives a bit.

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We have the guage of thinking 'if the media and these other fans think this about our fanbase and I know it's not representative maybe the same isn't representative of other fanbases too' - along with knowing fans of other clubs who are just like we are and love the game. I scoff at you saying it's 'taking the high road on every single topic' as well. It's hardly taking the high road or a secret to point to one of the reasons football's being ruined while we're all busy laughing at each others fans. 

There's schadenfreude and tribalism and taking the piss and then there's not caring about a club or clubs going into administration or wasting hundreds of millions. That's exactly what I'm saying about how fans are all 'lol fuck you' not realising or caring that every club's potentially going to be in the same position, including those at the top when the infinite growth model hits a brick wall. 

 

 

Edited January 27, 2022 by Kid Icarus

[TRon]

  On 27/01/2022 at 09:10, joeyt said:

So Everton fans should just suck it up and not protest because he's spent money despite their club being a laughing stock? Man Utd fans protest and the Glazers have spent money, are they wrong to do that?

 

It would be like Bury fans saying we shouldn't have protested against Ashley

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The Glazers are taking money out of Man U, not ploughing it in.

[joeyt]

  On 27/01/2022 at 12:15, TRon said:

 

The Glazers are taking money out of Man U, not ploughing it in.

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They've spent a fortune on players

[LFEE]

  On 27/01/2022 at 09:10, joeyt said:

So Everton fans should just suck it up and not protest because he's spent money despite their club being a laughing stock? Man Utd fans protest and the Glazers have spent money, are they wrong to do that?

 

It would be like Bury fans saying we shouldn't have protested against Ashley

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Man Utd fans are/were protesting on how the club was bought. Any other angle and they lose credibility because Man Utd have spent as big as anyone without a cohesive strategy like Man City Liverpool and Chelsea. Also the football landscape has changed a lot so the fans protesting are struggling to come to terms with a lack of constant success. The fact that post Ferguson they’ve still won major trophies and had ECL qualification shows they’ve been spoilt as that’s an acceptable level of success for any sensible thinking fan. It’s  perfectly reasonable for another fan base to point that out to them. Have very little sympathy for the Everton fans plight. If they’d got behind Rafa they would’ve been fine within a couple of seasons and in a lovely new stadium. A lot of their issues stem from Liverpool having another successful period in their history but that doesn’t take away from the fact their owner is chucking his own money at trying to make them the best they can be. Your Bury comment makes no sense at all. 

[Kid Icarus]

  On 27/01/2022 at 12:13, ManDoon said:

I mean Everton aren’t being put it admin, they might go down (unlikely) and if they do it’s highly likely they will get promoted, and If they don’t I mean that’s football, teams so get relegated. It is taking the high road, having a laugh at their expense for some well timed hubris is not the end of the world. It’s not that deep. 
 

I’m specifically talking about them because they demonstrably made it clear what they thought about our protesting. The media haven’t given me any observations about Everton, just my own. It’s not like their owner has been leeching from the club either. I’m not going to feel  bad about finding it funny on some basis that all of football needs solidarity. I simply don’t agree.

 

The Sunderland thing was mostly tongue in cheek, but if they were to go into admin I can’t say I’d lose any sleep over it. If that makes me a bad person, I can live with it. Their deranged online ramblings are enough for me to not feel any guilt. 

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It's not about you being a good or bad person   and it's not about all of the things you've brought up as an aside from what I'm saying. It's a widespread problem of fanbases complaining about misrepresentation then doing exactly the same to every single other fans base, all while football on the whole's being ruined because of these things we're laughing about and waving away until it's us. That's not taking the high road, football being ruined is something that's been pointed out countless times by our fans and fans across the world. We can see the problem happening in front of us and we're experts on the problem when it's our own club, but when it happens to other clubs we're wilfully ignorant and think it's funny. I just think it's mad. 

[NE27]

My arguement is purely levelled at the press and pundits.

 

The lies and bullshit they perpetuate which feeds this "hurr hurr you're deluded, mike Ashley spent billions" is fucking criminal.

 

But I'm not seeing this for Everton. All seems very cosey reporting outside goodison with their guitars and campfires.

 

Maybe I'm just reading/seeing stuff that backs up my view like.

[Stottie]

Everton did win the old Cup Winners Cup in 1985. As Leffe says, they may have kicked on in the old European Cup when champions but were denied the chance by Heysel.