Did Sir John Hall make a racist joke about Les Ferdinand ages ago?

[Toondave]

The only way its racist is if you define black as being a racist term, which is more racist than what he actually said 

 

silly and insensitive yes

 

You think saying the word black is worse than saying he couldn't see Ferdinand because he was stood next to something black? ok then

 

I think what I typed was quite clear, but I'm saying that someone stating what he said as being racist simply because he acknowledged the fact that ferdinand is black, albeit in an insensitive manner, is more racist than what was actually said. Nowhere did Hall imply that ferdinand was any worse for being black, if anything he implied he was far superior than whites at hide and seek (at least in a kitchen environment), but all the liberal high horsers however are implying that ferdinand is worse off for being black and must be stood up for or felt sorry for.

 

Did I just get called racist for thinking something someone else said was a bit racist?

 

do they teach comprehension wherever you grew up?

 

If you think black in itself is a racist term, then yes I think you are being racist.

[alexf]

did I say I think the word black in itself is racist? No.

What I said was I find someone that insinuates he can't see a person with Les Ferdinand's skin colour because he is stood next to something black as wrong.

[Toondave]

did I say I think the word black in itself is racist? No.

What I said was I find someone that insinuates he can't see a person with Les Ferdinand's skin colour because he is stood next to something black as wrong.

 

No you said it was racist. I don't think anyone's arguing that it isn't a silly/wrong/insensitive comment but the word racist gets thrown about far too much, usually, as someone mentioned, by dogooders who aren't at the receiving end of said "racism"

[Guest Geordiesned]

8 pages FFS!

[Cajun]

I think it is ridiculous to label people "dogooders" because they aren't the race that is being offended.

 

Out of interest who are the dogooders in this thread?

[OzzieMandias]

What a dismal thread.

 

The comment wasn't particularly racist in any evil kind of way, but it was the kind of thing only a racist would say. It's ignorant. And it does contain a racist idea, placing Les Ferdinand "black" as a category, not black as in his actual skin colour, which isn't black at all, though that's the "point" of the joke. The point is to call him a darkie, basically.

 

I remember SJH also came out with some homophobic drivel many years ago. He's a bit like a sort of football chairman Prince Philip – an old fucker, a bit out of touch with reality, and with a lot of antediluvian attitudes in there.

[Toondave]

I think it is ridiculous to label people "dogooders" because they aren't the race that is being offended.

 

Out of interest who are the dogooders in this thread?

 

The ones who scream racism at the very mention of colour, such as alex and santoon above, probably others elsewhere but I didn't take notes.

 

Someone earlier made an excellent analogy with height and a window I don't remember it but it was spot on

[Cajun]

I think it is ridiculous to label people "dogooders" because they aren't the race that is being offended.

 

Out of interest who are the dogooders in this thread?

 

The ones who scream racism at the very mention of colour, such as alex and santoon above, probably others elsewhere but I didn't take notes.

 

Someone earlier made an excellent analogy with height and a window I don't remember it but it was spot on

 

Do you know anything of their backgrounds?

 

Also if we signed a black player and someone's first comment was "Fuck me, he's black as the ace of spades!" would you honestly not think they were a bit racist? Or does it not apply to kitchen appliances?

[Ronaldo]

A 'first comment' would suggest his race is of primary importance, so that's hardly comparable.

[thomas]

yes, yes, we can all remember the marches for tall equality, the oppression and social injustice suffered by the lanky for centuries ... it's basically the same thing really.

[Toondave]

I think it is ridiculous to label people "dogooders" because they aren't the race that is being offended.

 

Out of interest who are the dogooders in this thread?

 

The ones who scream racism at the very mention of colour, such as alex and santoon above, probably others elsewhere but I didn't take notes.

 

Someone earlier made an excellent analogy with height and a window I don't remember it but it was spot on

 

Do you know anything of their backgrounds?

 

Also if we signed a black player and someone's first comment was "Fuck me, he's black as the ace of spades!" would you honestly not think they were a bit racist? Or does it not apply to kitchen appliances?

 

My opinion wouldn't change if I knew they where white, black, yellow or green. I don't see what you're getting at

[Cajun]

I think it is ridiculous to label people "dogooders" because they aren't the race that is being offended.

 

Out of interest who are the dogooders in this thread?

 

The ones who scream racism at the very mention of colour, such as alex and santoon above, probably others elsewhere but I didn't take notes.

 

Someone earlier made an excellent analogy with height and a window I don't remember it but it was spot on

 

Do you know anything of their backgrounds?

 

Also if we signed a black player and someone's first comment was "Fuck me, he's black as the ace of spades!" would you honestly not think they were a bit racist? Or does it not apply to kitchen appliances?

 

My opinion wouldn't change if I knew they where white, black, yellow or green. I don't see what you're getting at

 

Surely if it is a black person getting offended about a joke about black people they aren't getting offended on someone else's behalf? 

[Toondave]

I think it is ridiculous to label people "dogooders" because they aren't the race that is being offended.

 

Out of interest who are the dogooders in this thread?

 

The ones who scream racism at the very mention of colour, such as alex and santoon above, probably others elsewhere but I didn't take notes.

 

Someone earlier made an excellent analogy with height and a window I don't remember it but it was spot on

 

Do you know anything of their backgrounds?

 

Also if we signed a black player and someone's first comment was "Fuck me, he's black as the ace of spades!" would you honestly not think they were a bit racist? Or does it not apply to kitchen appliances?

 

My opinion wouldn't change if I knew they where white, black, yellow or green. I don't see what you're getting at

 

Surely if it is a black person getting offended about a joke about black people they aren't getting offended on someone else's behalf? 

 

The joke was about les Ferdinand, if either of them are les Ferdinand I'll appreciate their input.

[Toondave]

Unless you mean that because two people are black it means they must share views on things, such as racism

[Belfast Mags]

this thread

[B-more Mag]

I wish all you whiteys would just shut the fuck up.

[Cajun]

Unless you mean that because two people are black it means they must share views on things, such as racism

 

Nah you're right, if someone made a negative connotation about a white person I would check my birth certificate to make sure they weren't specifically talking about me then decide whether or not I am allowed to be offended.

 

It is natural to only be offended by things directed at you after all. I'm sure if a mackem came up to you and insulted Sir Bobby you would step back and think "Well I'm not Bobby Robson so I can't really be offended".

 

 

[Toondave]

Unless you mean that because two people are black it means they must share views on things, such as racism

 

Nah you're right, if someone made a negative connotation about a white person I would check my birth certificate to make sure they weren't specifically talking about me then decide whether or not I am allowed to be offended.

 

It is natural to only be offended by things directed at you after all. I'm sure if a mackem came up to you and insulted Sir Bobby you would step back and think "Well I'm not Bobby Robson so I can't really be offended".

 

I never said they couldn't be offended.

 

 

[alexf]

Sorry Toondave I tend to just associate "jokes" such as this about the colour of someone's skin, with racism. Call it casual racism, call it what you want but I still consider it a form of racism.

 

If that makes me a "do-gooder" or whatever then so be it, I don't mind.

[Toondave]

Sorry Toondave I tend to just associate "jokes" such as this about the colour of someone's skin, with racism. Call it casual racism, call it what you want but I still consider it a form of racism.

 

If that makes me a "do-gooder" or whatever then so be it, I don't mind.

 

Making me play the best friend is black card but I live with a Nigerian, Sri Lankan and a Greek, we make cracks at each other like what hall said all the time, does that make me or any of them racist?

 

No. Just because it's not something you'd say to a stranger doesn't make it racist. I wouldn't call an ugly bastard I didn't know ugly, but that's just because I'm not rude. Hardly different.

[BlueStar]

The reason "black people are so dark that..." jokes are seen in the same category as

"Black people's lips are so big that...",

"Chinese people's eyes are so narrow that...",

"Jewish people's noses are so big that..."

 

and are are often interpreted as a racist joke rather than just some innocent observation, whether referring to an individual or a race as a whole, is that it's a caricaturisation of racial characteristics. If you look at the racist cartoons of days gone by and blackface performers, as well as the exaggerated red lips, frizzy hair and bright teeth, they were portrayed with exaggerated jet-black skin. And the whole 'You can't see them at all the dark' thing was the regular comedy trope that went with it.

 

You can disagree that makes it a racial joke, but I think it's a bit disingenuous for people to act like they have no idea how anyone could consider it inappropriate.

 

If you want to complain about how a sweet old man can't make a joke about not being able to see Les Ferdinand in front of his black Arga without people raising eyebrows, the blame should probably lie with the people who churned out the racist caricatures that made it taboo in the first place rather than 'do gooders'.

 

 

 

[Toondave]

The reason "black people are so dark that..." jokes are seen in the same category as

"Black people's lips are so big that...",

"Chinese people's eyes are so narrow that...",

"Jewish people's noses are so big that..."

 

and are are often interpreted as a racist joke rather than just some innocent observation, whether referring to an individual or a race as a whole, is that it's a caricaturisation of racial characteristics. If you look at the racist cartoons of days gone by and blackface performers, as well as the exaggerated red lips, frizzy hair and bright teeth, they were portrayed with exaggerated jet-black skin. And the whole 'You can't see them at the dark' was a regular comedy trope that went with it.

 

You can disagree that makes it a racial joke, but I think it's a bit disingenuous for people to act like they have no idea how anyone could consider it inappropriate.

 

If you want to complain about how a sweet old man can't make a joke about not being able to see Les Ferdinand in front of his black Arga, the blame should probably lie with the people who churned out the racist caricatures that made it taboo in the first place rather than 'dogooders'.

 

I think most would agree that it's an inappropriate comment for radio, but slapping the label racist on anything that is related to race really detracts from the power that such a word deserves.

 

If he was truly the foaming racist some want him to be he wouldn't have signed him

[BlueStar]

Oh, I don't think John Hall's a racist, but I also don't think he's the subject of some crazed PC witchhunt just because Sky apologised for his comment and some people agree it wasn't an appropriate joke to make. I don't think many people are saying he has a racist ideology, even those who think it was a racist joke.

[B-more Mag]

If you want to get pedantic, it was racially insensitive. I think most people would agree with that and then stop arguing about it.

[HawK]

stereotype # racism