Alan '48 points' Pardew

[themanupstairs]

This whole Moyes vs Martinez debate isn't really a viable one is it? We talking about Martinez in hindsight? Or if we would take him now that he's at Everton? I think should Martinez leave Everton any time soon, he'll have much bigger fish to fry unfortunately. I reckon he'll be there a while, and at this juncture, leaving Everton to come to NUFC would be a sideways step unless we get a multi-billionaire owner.

Very kind to us. Under Ashley it is simply a lie

 

What's the lie like? 

[The College Dropout]

Us being a sideways step from Everton. It's a step in the wrong direction

[Away Toon]

Most fans, well certainly on here anyhow, prioritise being entertained over purely the results, after all Pardew did get us a 5th and probably a 9th or 10th this time. The problem is that the football is awful, no discernible pattern of play, set up to counter the opposition rather than play to our strengths. Moyes would give us a lot of the same though hopefully without plunging to the levels of ineptness that Pardew regularly comes up with.

 

Personally I like to be entertained for 90 minutes, I can handle not being the best team in the world, but being the most boring, that just sucks.

[TRon]

Moyes over Martinez? How Martinez kept that shower of s**** in the PL for so long is incredible, surely that's overachieving on a budget too? Has everyone officially been Pardewed?!!

 

 

Martinez didn't really go a great job at Wigan, when you consider Steve Bruce had them in 11th in 08/09. He shouldn't be hugely respected for keeping them about as perennial relegation scrappers. If I recall correctly, he did spend some dosh on real dross while there too.

 

People used this argument against Brendan Rodgers as well when he went to Liverpool - "he just inherited the good work done by Martinez". Rodgers has proved conclusively that having strong passing principles is the key to success. Moyes took big lad Fellaini to man U. I think that's all I need to say about that. He's a decent manager, but we need to look to the future.

[BottledDog]

People would take Moyes over Martinez given the choice?

 

Madness!

Nah, what's madness is to laugh off the choice like you just have. This is Martinez' first big job, he's done absolutely nothing wrong so far but it's still only 1 season. Although I think he looks a better manager than Moyes he's hardly proven it yet.

 

In a theoretical debate on who I'd prefer to come in and get the best out of someone like Ben Arfa and give us something ambitious and fun to watch I'd pick Martinez every time.

 

And that is far from being based on one season. Have admired Martinez since he first came to prominence. Great mentality. He may be a good manager, but still have considerably less love for Moyes.

[Tachikoma]

Moyes had 10 or so successful years at Everton, man.

 

Is that right? So what were his successful achievements as the Everton manager?

 

Ah howay man, wait for Ronaldo to log on again.  Everton went about 5 transfer windows without spending any money whatsoever and he still had them top-6.  And he actually appeared to have some involvement in signing the players and developing them.  Players like Cahill, Arteta, Piennar, Baines, Fellaini etc.

 

It's incredible how much people have forgotten in less than 12 months, aye Moyes didn't seem the natural choice for Man Utd at the time but most felt he was deserving of a shot at it, due to the excellent job he'd done at Everton.

 

The only reason I wouldn't necessarily want Moyes here is Hatem Ben Arfa, and Neil's accounts on how Moyes isn't the biggest fan of flair. But since that ship has most likely sailed already, why the hell not.

 

Just fucking stop.

 

Now I'm adamant that I wouldn't want Moyes here, because Dinho Lad wants him.

 

[Dinho lad]

Moyes had 10 or so successful years at Everton, man.

 

Is that right? So what were his successful achievements as the Everton manager?

 

Ah howay man, wait for Ronaldo to log on again.  Everton went about 5 transfer windows without spending any money whatsoever and he still had them top-6.  And he actually appeared to have some involvement in signing the players and developing them.  Players like Cahill, Arteta, Piennar, Baines, Fellaini etc.

 

It's incredible how much people have forgotten in less than 12 months, aye Moyes didn't seem the natural choice for Man Utd at the time but most felt he was deserving of a shot at it, due to the excellent job he'd done at Everton.

 

The only reason I wouldn't necessarily want Moyes here is Hatem Ben Arfa, and Neil's accounts on how Moyes isn't the biggest fan of flair. But since that ship has most likely sailed already, why the hell not.

 

Just fucking stop.

 

Now I'm adamant that I wouldn't want Moyes here, because Dinho Lad wants him.

 

 

Never said I did, tbh.

[Guest Dontooner]

There are plenty of average to slightly better than average managers out there...

Just sack this pile of shit.... gutless lying cunt!

[Guest Howaythetoon]

Moyes is a bang average manager, someone who can only do an effective job in certain conditions. He prefers hard working players over flair players. He sets his teams up not to lose as opposed to winning the game. Tactically his sides are very rudimentary based around work-rate, pressing and typically using a target man type figure up front to bully the opposition/launch attacks to.

 

He is very old skool in that regard. He's more of a PE teacher type 'coach' than a forward thinking philosopher of the game which is why he will never ever go anywhere in his career other than doing solid steady jobs at mediocre clubs, with the odd exceptional or stand out season. Everton was his stamp and always will be.

 

Yes that's better than what we have under Pardew, but I want to see some real progression in the development of players, ideas, styles and pattern of play at Newcastle in the way Wenger has brought to Graham's Arsenal, Rodgers to Dalglish's Liverpool, Laudrup to Swansea, Pochettino to Southampton and Martinez to Moyes' Everton etc.

 

Moyes is in the same league as Hughes, Big Sam, Pardew, Pulis et al, all limited average managers who get a side doing well based on hard graft, a set way of playing, old skool tactics and good old fashioned luck with injuries etc., but only in the right circumstances.

 

It is no coincidence that whenever Hughes, Big Sam or now Moyes has went up a level or been asked to go up a level, they have struggled and that's because the way they do things only ever works or will work is at certain clubs under certain criteria.

 

With coaches like Rodgers, Martinez, Pochettino etc. you just know they will be able to transfer their ideas and ways of playing to any side they managed. That's the type of manager I'd like to see at Newcastle and that's what we need if we are to become anything other than what we are.

 

Moyes would be a step up from Pardew, but all we ever would be under him is a more effective and more robust Pardew NUFC side and I don't want that, I want to see some shift in how we play. I want to see a revolution not a continuation of the same old same old.

 

Moyes didn't do wonders at Everton nor a great job, he did a good job nothing more. I work in Liverpool all the time and the general consensus among Everton fans is that he was a good fit for them, but every season was the same even when they would finish say 6th instead of 8th. They are loving Martinez who is like a breath of fresh air to them.

 

And I'm jealous as fuck

[Minhosa]

Moyes is a bang average manager, someone who can only do an effective job in certain conditions. He prefers hard working players over flair players. He sets his teams up not to lose as opposed to winning the game. Tactically his sides are very rudimentary based around work-rate, pressing and typically using a target man type figure up front to bully the opposition/launch attacks to.

 

He is very old skool in that regard. He's more of a PE teacher type 'coach' than a forward thinking philosopher of the game which is why he will never ever go anywhere in his career other than doing solid steady jobs at mediocre clubs, with the odd exceptional or stand out season. Everton was his stamp and always will be.

 

Yes that's better than what we have under Pardew, but I want to see some real progression in the development of players, ideas, styles and pattern of play at Newcastle in the way Wenger has brought to Graham's Arsenal, Rodgers to Dalglish's Liverpool, Laudrup to Swansea, Pochettino to Southampton and Martinez to Moyes' Everton etc.

 

Moyes is in the same league as Hughes, Big Sam, Pardew, Pulis et al, all limited average managers who get a side doing well based on hard graft, a set way of playing, old skool tactics and good old fashioned luck with injuries etc., but only in the right circumstances.

 

It is no coincidence that whenever Hughes, Big Sam or now Moyes has went up a level or been asked to go up a level, they have struggled and that's because the way they do things only ever works or will work is at certain clubs under certain criteria.

 

With coaches like Rodgers, Martinez, Pochettino etc. you just know they will be able to transfer their ideas and ways of playing to any side they managed. That's the type of manager I'd like to see at Newcastle and that's what we need if we are to become anything other than what we are.

 

Moyes would be a step up from Pardew, but all we ever would be under him is a more effective and more robust Pardew NUFC side and I don't want that, I want to see some shift in how we play. I want to see a revolution not a continuation of the same old same old.

 

Moyes didn't do wonders at Everton nor a great job, he did a good job nothing more. I work in Liverpool all the time and the general consensus among Everton fans is that he was a good fit for them, but every season was the same even when they would finish say 6th instead of 8th. They are loving Martinez who is like a breath of fresh air to them.

 

And I'm jealous as fuck

 

Totally agree with this. The way forward has to be based around a certain style of play throughout the whole club. A footballing mentality. An ethos.

 

The irony being that Rodgers, Poch, Laudrup and Martinez all got their current/latest jobs without significant compensation having to be paid.

 

MA won't see that though.

[Skeletor]

I think it was Wullie who said it earlier that we need a manager who's going to bring some excitement. You can't guarantee a manager will do a good job but certain managers you can bank on to deliver good football and excitement on the pitch. After nearly 3 and a half years of Pardball we all deserve that little bit of excitement on the pitch.

[Minhosa]

I think it was Wullie who said it earlier that we need a manager who's going to bring some excitement. You can't guarantee a manager will do a good job but certain managers you can bank on to deliver good football and excitement on the pitch. After nearly 3 and a half years of Pardball we all deserve that little bit of excitement on the pitch.

 

aye.

[Tachikoma]

So that leaves us with Carlos Bielsa and Laudrup?

 

Let's focus on getting Pardew out of the job first (fucking twitter).

[jdckelly]

christ there's some ridiculously selective memories, Moyes did an incredible job at Everton on a rather small budget brought in some excellent players for low prices and the quality of football progressively improved under him. We'd do very well to get him.

[Skeletor]

So that leaves us with Carlos Bielsa and Laudrup?

 

Let's focus on getting Pardew out of the job first (fucking twitter).

 

Oh there's no shifting Pardew. The fact we hate him is just a bonus for Ashley.

[mrmojorisin75]

I think it was Wullie who said it earlier that we need a manager who's going to bring some excitement. You can't guarantee a manager will do a good job but certain managers you can bank on to deliver good football and excitement on the pitch. After nearly 3 and a half years of Pardball we all deserve that little bit of excitement on the pitch.

 

aye.

 

This is literally what we should all be going for, I'd take Moyes but I'd prefer someone more inclined to attack as their primary goal.

[Minhosa]

So that leaves us with Carlos Bielsa and Laudrup?

 

Let's focus on getting Pardew out of the job first (fucking twitter).

 

I've just looked at the table. We really are exactly where MA wants us to be.

 

Not in relegation fight (no risk of £££££'s hit), no chance of Europa (no chance of ££££££'s having to be spent on squad fillers for stupid, time consuming competition) and likely to achieve target of 8th to 10th every year.

 

From his viewpoint, given he pays so much attention to results (points, league position and financial), so little attention to the fans, even less to the popular press and doesn't appear to give a fuck about the quality of football we play (providing targets are achieved) there's absolutely fuck all chance AP is going ANYWHERE.

 

We should get our heads around that. Prepare for disappointment if anyone feels he's going to go. I just cannot see it. He's doing everything asked of him (and more some would say because MA hasn't had to pay a MD for months up to LC appointment).

 

Where else would he get a yes man, bought into the MA regime and ethos, a PR Front etc all for less than some Championship Managers earn?

 

Who else, with any sort of calibre, would work for him on those terms?

 

My biggest hope was that AP would succumb to the pressure (he really doesn't like ego hits and hasn't been anywhere as a Manager for long - always tending to get found out) but, with the seemingly unerring support he's getting off MA, these would really strengthen his position.

[Tachikoma]

I can't imagine us not being in a relegation battle next season if Pardew stays on, that alone should be reason enough for the fat one to consider a change.

 

The alternative is that he backs Pardew up with unfashionable and expensive cloggers who have very little resale value, which will probably drag us into a relegation battle anyway, or consider the cheaper alternative that is to hire a manager capable of getting more out of our current setup.

[Tooj]

So that leaves us with Carlos Bielsa and Laudrup?

 

Let's focus on getting Pardew out of the job first (fucking twitter).

Bielsa is off to Marseille.

[Minhosa]

I can't imagine us not being in a relegation battle next season if Pardew stays on, that alone should be reason enough for the fat one to consider a change.

 

The alternative is that he backs Pardew up with unfashionable and expensive cloggers who have very little resale value, which will probably drag us into a relegation battle anyway, or consider the cheaper alternative that is to hire a manager capable of getting more out of our current setup.

 

Second guessing Ashley is a fools game. I agree that we'll be fighting relegation next season under AP but then Ashley's view will probably be that he'll just throw money at the problem in January.

 

It's the fine lines isn't it? When you aspire to be bang average there's always the risk that you're actually not. When you aspire to exist for profit purposes alone, there's a risk that you sell one player too far, or rather don't sign one extra player.

 

When our best case scenario is 8th, it's not an awful long way to fall to be 18th. There's the rub. There's the downside.

 

He's a gambler Ashley and I'd always hoped that he'd throw good money at us in January in the event we had the potential to push on, make a difference, instill a bit of belief but, let's be brutally honest, he's only in this until he can claw back his money + a healthy profit.

 

That much is clear now. I think.

[Tachikoma]

Ah, they've confirmed it I see.

 

Marseille sound like they're in worse shape than us, if that was at all possible

[TRon]

Moyes is a bang average manager, someone who can only do an effective job in certain conditions. He prefers hard working players over flair players. He sets his teams up not to lose as opposed to winning the game. Tactically his sides are very rudimentary based around work-rate, pressing and typically using a target man type figure up front to bully the opposition/launch attacks to.

 

He is very old skool in that regard. He's more of a PE teacher type 'coach' than a forward thinking philosopher of the game which is why he will never ever go anywhere in his career other than doing solid steady jobs at mediocre clubs, with the odd exceptional or stand out season. Everton was his stamp and always will be.

 

Yes that's better than what we have under Pardew, but I want to see some real progression in the development of players, ideas, styles and pattern of play at Newcastle in the way Wenger has brought to Graham's Arsenal, Rodgers to Dalglish's Liverpool, Laudrup to Swansea, Pochettino to Southampton and Martinez to Moyes' Everton etc.

 

Moyes is in the same league as Hughes, Big Sam, Pardew, Pulis et al, all limited average managers who get a side doing well based on hard graft, a set way of playing, old skool tactics and good old fashioned luck with injuries etc., but only in the right circumstances.

 

It is no coincidence that whenever Hughes, Big Sam or now Moyes has went up a level or been asked to go up a level, they have struggled and that's because the way they do things only ever works or will work is at certain clubs under certain criteria.

 

With coaches like Rodgers, Martinez, Pochettino etc. you just know they will be able to transfer their ideas and ways of playing to any side they managed. That's the type of manager I'd like to see at Newcastle and that's what we need if we are to become anything other than what we are.

 

Moyes would be a step up from Pardew, but all we ever would be under him is a more effective and more robust Pardew NUFC side and I don't want that, I want to see some shift in how we play. I want to see a revolution not a continuation of the same old same old.

 

Moyes didn't do wonders at Everton nor a great job, he did a good job nothing more. I work in Liverpool all the time and the general consensus among Everton fans is that he was a good fit for them, but every season was the same even when they would finish say 6th instead of 8th. They are loving Martinez who is like a breath of fresh air to them.

 

And I'm jealous as fuck

 

Very well put

 

 

 

 

[Ketsbaia]

I'm doing an article on Pardew - what are some of the more remarkable stats, apart from 5 defeats in a row? Is 'never winning after going behind' actually true?

[AlanSkÃrare]

I'm doing an article on Pardew - what are some of the more remarkable stats, apart from 5 defeats in a row? Is 'never winning after going behind' actually true?

 

Never turning a half-time loss into a win, I think.

 

We didn't score for a corner for something like 350 corners.

 

He's played Shola at right-mid.

[Guest firetotheworks]

Absolutely true.

 

Less PL goals scored in 2014 at St James Park than Sunderland up until 19th April.

Worst home defeat to Sunderland in 46 years

Then the same defeat the following year

Worst home defeat in 87 years (0-6 against Liverpool)

 

 

Your best person to ask is Happy Face.