Manchester United

[PRL]

6 minutes ago, Froggy said:

 

He just seems like a very honest manager. I don't hate that he's answering questions with the truth. 

 

You're only seeing clips of what he's saying as well, as the media will snip the negative bits for headlines. There is plenty of positivity coming from him. 

 

I disagree with changing his ideas temporarily as well. He's addressed this a lot. It's better to implement this system now and suffer short term instead of bluffing our way into Europe playing hero ball with Fernandes and Rashford. We'll just be back to square one at the start of next season. 

 

Fully agree on your points about Rashford though. His sale benefits us in every way possible. The team, the negativity in the media, the money aspect etc. He has to go. Even when he's not playing it's a dark cloud over every game and the first question Amorim is asked is usually about Rashford. 

Completely see what you’re saying here, but I do think in these circumstances there is such a thing as being too honest. Either the press officer or him needs to just refer back to prior answers to the same question or stonewall it. Right from saying he didn’t really want to come in during mid season but was given no option I think he’s said a bit too much. I admire that in him and think it shows he’s a good bloke, but too often in football, particularly when a club has some toxicity around it, honesty is mistaken for weakness and prayed upon. 
 

Similarly, completely understand the desire to move to a new formation asap and not suggesting waiting until pre-season, but as he’s acknowledged he’s had 4 training sessions in a month and Maguire says that he is asking players to do completely the opposite to what ETH asked them to do. Wouldn’t it be sensible to phase the change over, to be pragmatic if only for a matter of weeks, until he can get the players on the training pitch and properly instil his ideas and philosophies? Trying to do this with no capacity to properly train does not seem to be working. Maybe the 5 days he has had between games now will show a marked difference, but with the suspensions and injuries you have it will be makeshift regardless. I think he’s painted himself into a corner on this and has no option but to continue down the path he is on, but I think this was a mistake and one he’ll regret being so adamant about. After all, if he was willing to bend on being available mid season rather than end of season to get the job, maybe he should relent slightly on the formation to keep it. 

[Froggy]

4 minutes ago, Sibierski said:

No, he’ll be sacked. Man Utd fans will want to believe their narrative that this is open heart surgery, going to painful before it gets better, going to take time.

 

But I can sure as hell guarantee, Ratcliffe has not bought Man Utd for big money just to improve processes etc. he’ll be wanting to be at the top table, winning the top competitions and if that’s not coming, people will be losing their jobs. Whether that’s Wilcox / Brailsford etc or Amorim, time will tell, but it’s often the manager that goes. 
 

Ashworth has already been discarded by Ratcliffe for seemingly not doing what was expected. So what’s there to believe if Amorim finishes 10th he keeps his job? Europa may save him, but then what happened with ETH may go against Amorim, as in “Don’t let a cup win influence the decision if league form has been shit”.

 

There is absolutely no chance Amorim gets sacked. The only situation where that's a realistic possibility is if we're in the Championship next season. 

 

The negotiations with him were long. Everyone knew the situation he was taking over. 

[NE27]

Just now, Froggy said:

 

The negotiations with him were long. Everyone knew the situation he was taking over. 

 

As long as the Dan ashworth talks?

[BlazeT44]

Just now, NE27 said:

 

As long as the Dan ashworth talks?

 

[Froggy]

1 minute ago, PRL said:

Completely see what you’re saying here, but I do think in these circumstances there is such a thing as being too honest. Either the press officer or him needs to just refer back to prior answers to the same question or stonewall it. Right from saying he didn’t really want to come in during mid season but was given no option I think he’s said a bit too much. I admire that in him and think it shows he’s a good bloke, but too often in football, particularly when a club has some toxicity around it, honesty is mistaken for weakness and prayed upon. 
 

Similarly, completely understand the desire to move to a new formation asap and not suggesting waiting until pre-season, but as he’s acknowledged he’s had 4 training sessions in a month and Maguire says that he is asking players to do completely the opposite to what ETH asked them to do. Wouldn’t it be sensible to phase the change over, to be pragmatic if only for a matter of weeks, until he can get the players on the training pitch and properly instil his ideas and philosophies? Trying to do this with no capacity to properly train does not seem to be working. Maybe the 5 days he has had between games now will show a marked difference, but with the suspensions and injuries you have it will be makeshift regardless. I think he’s painted himself into a corner on this and has no option but to continue down the path he is on, but I think this was a mistake and one he’ll regret being so adamant about. After all, if he was willing to bend on being available mid season rather than end of season to get the job, maybe he should relent slightly on the formation to keep it. 

 

I would agree that he maybe shouldn't have said he was given an ultimatum of coming mid season or not at all. That's the only thing so far where I've thought, "he maybe shouldn't have said that."

 

But honestly it's just refreshing to have a manager with some charisma combined with a backbone that allows him to stand up to plays like Rashford and Garnacho and punish them for being pricks. 

 

I am 100% with him on the formation though. I'd hate if he changed it. If he decides to play a 4-4-2 counter attacking formation just to try and get points on the board I would feel like he's already failed and his time is limited. 

[Abacus]

1 minute ago, Froggy said:

 

Nobody is actually being critical of Amorim though. As I've said a few times lately, football fans are just fickle. 

 

Our fans and opposition fans have been critical of our style of play or lack of over the last couple of seasons. Now we've got a manager with a crystal clear style of play and people are already suggesting he abandon his way of playing for a more pragmatic style. 

 

Ten Hag was slaughtered for doing that. I don't know why people can't be patient. It's December. Amorim signed in November.

And I agree with this. But I also think he has been parachuted in at the wrong time to do something he doesn't have the resources or time to do, given expectations. The ten Hag dithering and taking Ashworth without seemingly knowing what he does suggests a club that isn't sure what to do.

 

None of that's on Amorim, which I guess your real fans understand also.

[Froggy]

2 minutes ago, NE27 said:

As long as the Dan ashworth talks?

 

I mean, Ashworth was wanking himself off silly at the thought of coming to us. He was an instant yes. 

 

The negotiations were with the club over his exit fee, not with Ashworth himself. 

[Froggy]

1 minute ago, Abacus said:

And I agree with this. But I also think he has been parachuted in at the wrong time to do something he doesn't have the resources or time to do, given expectations. The ten Hag dithering and taking Ashworth without seemingly knowing what he does suggests a club that isn't sure what to do.

 

None of that's on Amorim, which I guess your real fans understand also.

 

But what are his expectations? This is what we don't know. I know supporters expectations are low. We expect Arsenal to knock us out of the cup, and we know we won't be anywhere near the top 4 in the league. Most of us are hoping for an uptick in form and a reasonable challenge made in the Europa League. 

 

Every man and his dog knows that the culture is absolutely fucked at the club as well. A proper deep rot. We need to allow a manager to change it at some point. A manager with unwavering ideas is what we need I think. Anyone who isn't up to it, see you later. 

 

I said to mates previously, I'd happily take 14th for a season or two if it meant we cleared out the trash(ford) and reset the wage structure etc. There's £1.5m or so a week in wages being paid for players who either don't play or can't stay fit. It's going to take some time for Amorim to sort that out. 

 

Honestly if Ratcliffe sacked Amorim as as quick as he sacked Ashworth, I might just support Newcastle. As Eddie Howe is the kind of manager I've always wanted since Fergie left, and I believe Amorim and Howe are similar in many ways. I'd be beyond gutted.

[Sibierski]

9 minutes ago, Froggy said:

 

There is absolutely no chance Amorim gets sacked. The only situation where that's a realistic possibility is if we're in the Championship next season. 

 

The negotiations with him were long. Everyone knew the situation he was taking over. 

There’s a difference to knowing the situation and the results that come afterwards.

 

Like I said, I think it’s very much head in sands if Man Utd fans think Ratcliffe will be happy to write off a season and there’s no consequences. 
 

Amorim is likely a good coach, don’t have the success over many domestic seasons as he’s had and not be. But that doesn’t always automatically translate to other sides / domestic leagues, and Ratcliffe will only be caring about the Ws on a sheet, in same way he only cares about the numbers on a spreadsheet when it comes to all these cost cutting measures.

[Froggy]

2 minutes ago, Sibierski said:

There’s a difference to knowing the situation and the results that come afterwards.

 

Like I said, I think it’s very much head in sands if Man Utd fans think Ratcliffe will be happy to write off a season and there’s no consequences. 
 

Amorim is likely a good coach, don’t have the success over many domestic seasons as he’s had and not be. But that doesn’t always automatically translate to other sides / domestic leagues, and Ratcliffe will only be caring about the Ws on a sheet, in same way he only cares about the numbers on a spreadsheet when it comes to all these cost cutting measures.

 

I think Ratcliffe would have a fairly big revolt on his hands if this is route he goes down. 

 

With the rise in ticket prices, I think you'd see Old Trafford start to empty. This is a coach we've really, really taken to. 

[Erikse]

28 minutes ago, Froggy said:

 

There is absolutely no chance Amorim gets sacked. The only situation where that's a realistic possibility is if we're in the Championship next season. 

 

The negotiations with him were long. Everyone knew the situation he was taking over. 

 

 

 

Edited 13 hours ago by Erikse

[Shays Given Tim Flowers]

18 minutes ago, Froggy said:

Honestly if Ratcliffe sacked Amorim as as quick as he sacked Ashworth, I might just support Newcastle. As Eddie Howe is the kind of manager I've always wanted since Fergie left, and I believe Amorim and Howe are similar in many ways. I'd be beyond gutted.

[Erikse]

Judging by froggys quores here, it's safe to say that Amorim gets an early sacking and that Ugarte turns out to be a flop.

[STM]

I agree with Froggy, no chance Amorim gets the sack and nor should he. They have to have a cull, even if it means losing vast amounts of money in the short term.

 

Amorim should have hired Roy Keane as a temporary assistant, merely for the purpose of terrorising the squad in the dressing room and setting some standards around the place. Once that phase is over, they can start thinking about building a side which can play Amorims football.

[54]

20 minutes ago, Froggy said:

 

Every man and his dog knows that the culture is absolutely fucked at the club as well. A proper deep rot. We need to allow a manager to change it at some point. A manager with unwavering ideas is what we need I think. Anyone who isn't up to it, see you later. 

In simple terms, your board need to let Berrada and Amorim to do what Edu and Arteta did at Arsenal. That club was rotten to the core when Arteta was appointed, in not to dissimilar fashion to what Man United are now, for Rashford see Aubameyang etc. So even when they finished 8th, outside of Europe, and the pressure was mounting for him to be sacked, they stuck by the process as they could see the changes he was implementing inside the club, and how slowly with a investment in youth and the right characters, they've finally become competitive again. That process in relative terms didn't take all too long, 2/3 years or so, so there is a way out of this situation for Man United, they just need to be sure Amorim is the right guy, stick by him, and no have any kneejerk reactions. 

 

If you board and fanbase do that is another thing. I know he a clown that only care about enragement farming, but people like Goldbridge turning and questioning is not helpful in the slightest. 

 

All this is to say, I find this situation fascinating and hilarious in equal measure  

[sixx]

Man Utd actually have a pretty exciting spine for a new manager to build on with Onana, Yoro, de Ligt, Ugarte, Mainoo, Höjlund and Zirkzee. Now Amorim has to develop them and unlock their full potential.
 

In the post-Fergie era ManUtd have been far too concerned with player recruitment only to forget player development which is equally as important and they main reason City and Liverpool have left them in the dust. City and Liverpool can recruit good players and develop them into elite players. Man utd can’t. If they’re ever going to catch up they have to change that.

 

I don’t think they will though. They will probably go on throwing money on their problems and their fanbase demanding an “open heart surgery” every two years.

 

Which makes me so grateful having a manager like Howe. A manager that can actually work with and improve upon what he already has.

[Zero]

If Amorim was hired at the end of this season, I think it would be a magnificent appointment. He actually got a lot of ticks from me.

 

The direction is kinda obvious : just write off this season and let Amorim do whatever he want to. As long as Man Utd is not relegated, keep him and support him.

 

 

 

 

However, Ratcliffe. So I am afraid another few defeats would seal Amorims fate before February. 

[Ginola14]

getting rid of Ashworth so quickly after months of negotiations, his compensation fee and all that shite in the media about being best in class, was absolutely staggering 

 

Ratcliffe doesn't strike me as the patient type, I think he expects Amorim to have a magic wand and will not settle for struggling in the bottom half for too long 

 

the scrutiny MU are under and the ignominy would likely be too much for Ratcliffe 

 

there's absolutely no chance of relegation this season or any season imo

 

in fact it would not surprise me in the least if he pulls a win out of the bag against us on Monday

 

MU always at their most dangerous when they're being written off, and losing 3 in a row at home is almost unheard of there 

 

 

 

Edited 13 hours ago by Ginola14

[joeyt]

[Froggy]

3 minutes ago, joeyt said:

 

 

He's the complete opposite of Ten Hag in every way mind. 

[Nucasol]

5 minutes ago, joeyt said:

Completely agree, baldist bastards.

[GeordieDazzler]

It’s feels very similar to Potter at Chelsea in that you hire a ‘training ground’ manager like Amorim and appoint him at the point of the season where you have minimal time on the training pitch outside preparing for the next game, each of which becomes more loaded the worse form gets. 
 

We always looked better when Howe had a bit of time to work with the players. 
 

Think Amorim will be given time but if there is a total collapse (next three games look scary for them) it might change things.

 

Just feels like inflicting unnecessary damage on his standing and reputation bringing him in when they did. 
 

 

[RUHRLYASLEEVESUP]

Charisma 

 

 

[Joelinton7]

Reuben the rizzler 

[Bimpy474]

3 hours ago, Froggy said:

 

There is absolutely no chance Amorim gets sacked. The only situation where that's a realistic possibility is if we're in the Championship next season. 

 

The negotiations with him were long. Everyone knew the situation he was taking over. 

 

Serious question, what if the bad run continues. Not that i think it'll get this bad, but what if you do have a really bad run of results, and are flirting with relegation. Do you think they'll stand by him ?

 

I think they should, it's pains me to say it, but there's something about him that makes me think he'll make a success of it.

 

 

Edited 11 hours ago by Bimpy474