Crystal Palace manager

[Guest Gino14]

Ideally it should be a combination of both these traditional managers, and the analysts or more cerebral types. As is happening a lot more in American sports.

 

However, I can't see it catching on here. Most of the managers here are incredibly intimidated by having any such sort of input from elsewhere. Insecure control freaks. The continued whinging about directors of football for example.

 

The way it will catch on here is if other countries embrace it.  If a foreign analytically minded manager breaks through and is a top manager he'll be able to get a job here should he want it.  Then if he did well, others would follow the example.  That's what it would take though, I can't see the UK being the innovation centre of it, not when I see how far behind our current managers are.

[KaKa]

Ideally it should be a combination of both these traditional managers, and the analysts or more cerebral types. As is happening a lot more in American sports.

 

However, I can't see it catching on here. Most of the managers here are incredibly intimidated by having any such sort of input from elsewhere. Insecure control freaks. The continued whinging about directors of football for example.

 

The way it will catch on here is if other countries embrace it.  If a foreign analytically minded manager breaks through and is a top manager he'll be able to get a job here should he want it.  Then if he did well, others would follow the example.  That's what it would take though, I can't see the UK being the innovation centre of it, not when I see how far behind our current managers are.

 

I'm just talking about them contributing at clubs, and not necessarily becoming managers even.

 

A lot of sports franchises in the states now have their analytics departments that aid the coaches, the scouting departments etc.

 

Think such ideas are routinely scoffed at over here. Just need proper players.

[Guest Gino14]

Ideally it should be a combination of both these traditional managers, and the analysts or more cerebral types. As is happening a lot more in American sports.

 

However, I can't see it catching on here. Most of the managers here are incredibly intimidated by having any such sort of input from elsewhere. Insecure control freaks. The continued whinging about directors of football for example.

 

The way it will catch on here is if other countries embrace it.  If a foreign analytically minded manager breaks through and is a top manager he'll be able to get a job here should he want it.  Then if he did well, others would follow the example.  That's what it would take though, I can't see the UK being the innovation centre of it, not when I see how far behind our current managers are.

 

I'm just talking about them contributing at clubs, and not necessarily becoming managers even.

 

A lot of sports franchises in the states now have their analytics departments that aid the coaches, the scouting departments etc.

 

Think such ideas are routinely scoffed at over here. Just need proper players.

 

Oh definitely but ideas always need the right kind of presentation and success to be popular.  If someone like Klinsmann, with his popularity and charisma, was to bring a team of people over from America and manage Tottenham to success, the media would run with it and all of a sudden you'd see many teams copying and having full teams of technical experts involved.

 

One problem at the moment is that the biggest supporter of all this stuff over here is Sam Allardyce, which does no end of damage to the cause of getting more analysis involved.  He uses it to gets results, but with his unwatchable brand of Football.  So it's an approach that will never gain popularity with that kind of representation.

[GeordieT]

Well all clubs have these departments, City have like a ten strong team I think. Can't imagine Pardew taking too much notice of what our analysts have to say, almost everything he does seems to be based on his intuition. Although I am sure he pops in to get the 'distance covered' stats.

[ikri]

Can't believe people are arguing that people with an education outside football aren't as capable of being good managers as the dimwits who were lucky enough to play.

 

Can't believe people are arguing that by virtue of playing a computer game a "huge proportion" of people would be far better at managing a football team than people who have been managing premiership clubs for many years. The only thing stopping them would be the footabllers who for some reason wouldn't respect their in-game coaching badges and their 5 successive Champions League titles - what a bunch of thickies. I'll remind you again of the original assertion which people are defending:

 

I suspect that a huge proportion of Football Manager players would run rings around most "top" managers if it weren't for the fact that the players wouldn't take notice of them since they had no background in football.

 

 

The numbers will always be stacked massively against those outside the game but what the few who did it have actually achieved in the game tells you they need more chances.

 

There are of course no managers without footballing experience who have failed at football management, they are all Mourinhos, Wengers and Rodgers*

 

*j/k

 

Did you notice any irony in my use of "top" in reference to managers?  I mean "top" managers like Pardew, Allardyce, etc. cretinous fools for the most part who latch on to a single method of playing because it worked for a short period yet make it into some core footballing philosophy.  It isn't rocket science to play players in their most natural positions, yet Pardew is getting plaudits for doing just that, despite being the man responsible for playing people out of position in the first place.  It's not a great stretch of the imagination to suggest that people who are adept at a football tactics simulator might have a better tactical knowledge than the fuckwit who keeps shoehorning players into unfamiliar positions because it once seemed to work in completely different circumstances, with completely different players.

[Cronky]

The thing for me as well is that, sure I don't expect some random to be able to go right in and manage a Football club, but what about someone who has never played Football to any high level and works their way up?  That's basically what Mourinho did, he started at the bottom translating and doing a small coaching role.  Then he worked his way gradually up the ladder till he got a small management job, then a larger job and so on.

 

What would be wrong with a young guy, educating himself then doing his coaching badges and getting a very lowly non league part time assistant to the assistant coaching position?  If he works himself up the ranks, like in any profession wouldn't he have every chance of being as good at coaching and management eventually as some ex Footballer, who just happens to get big chances right away?

 

Of course that could happen. But such a person would have to get his hands dirty by operating within the messiness of the real world, and having his ideas tested out in a practical way at each stage as he tried to rise up the ladder.

 

What surprises me is anyone thinking that developing expertise on a computer game can be a substitute for that process, or even for a part of it.

 

 

[Dave]

It's an interesting theory, but talk of computer game players being better at the real thing is a bit cringey IMO. No matter how advanced the software is, it's all still 100% theoretical.

[Guest Gino14]

The thing for me as well is that, sure I don't expect some random to be able to go right in and manage a Football club, but what about someone who has never played Football to any high level and works their way up?  That's basically what Mourinho did, he started at the bottom translating and doing a small coaching role.  Then he worked his way gradually up the ladder till he got a small management job, then a larger job and so on.

 

What would be wrong with a young guy, educating himself then doing his coaching badges and getting a very lowly non league part time assistant to the assistant coaching position?  If he works himself up the ranks, like in any profession wouldn't he have every chance of being as good at coaching and management eventually as some ex Footballer, who just happens to get big chances right away?

 

Of course that could happen. But such a person would have to get his hands dirty by operating within the messiness of the real world, and having his ideas tested out in a practical way at each stage as he tried to rise up the ladder.

 

What surprises me is anyone thinking that developing expertise on a computer game can be a substitute for that process, or even for a part of it.

 

The Football Manager thing has never really been part of my argument (I wasn't the one who started on that track).  I mean, for someone who happens to have played it, that doesn't rule them out as ever being a manager, but it doesn't rule them in either.  I think it was just a bit of an exaggeration really by people saying it, to make the point that most current managers aren't that bright and don't really have great innate management ability.

[Wullie]

It's an interesting theory, but talk of computer game players being better at the real thing is a bit cringey IMO. No matter how advanced the software is, it's all still 100% theoretical.

 

 

Assumes that there's no man-management involved too, which there is, fucking loads.

[cp40]

It's an interesting theory, but talk of computer game players being better at the real thing is a bit cringey IMO. No matter how advanced the software is, it's all still 100% theoretical.

 

 

Assumes that there's no man-management involved too, which there is, fucking loads.

 

 

At this level its probably one of the big factors that effects form.

If that game Is not going into the man management, club/ squad/team politics, and it assuming that all these things are rosy and every instruction requested by the game player is carried out correctly- then its missing some fundamental things that have to be overcome by a manager.

[KaKa]

I would actually expect people who stare at computer games all day to in fact be far better at relating to humans than Pardew is tbf.

[Dave]

It's an interesting theory, but talk of computer game players being better at the real thing is a bit cringey IMO. No matter how advanced the software is, it's all still 100% theoretical.

 

 

Assumes that there's no man-management involved too, which there is, fucking loads.

 

 

At this level its probably one of the big factors that effects form.

If that game Is not going into the man management, club/ squad/team politics, and it assuming that all these things are rosy and every instruction requested by the game player is carried out correctly- then its missing some fundamental things that have to be overcome by a manager.

 

It probably does cover those things, but again it can't possibly account for how inexplicaly mental humans are. Like Slim for example.

[Mr. Snrub]

Calling Chelsea the best team in Europe aswell. 

 

If he managed anyone else he'd be hilarious.

[Guest Gino14]

I'd laugh and find him entertaining managing someone else, because he's such an idiot.  I have to laugh to keep from crying when he says those things as our manager.

[mrmojorisin75]

I actually missed the FM reference in that ikri post

[Paully]

Four years ago today The King was appointed!

[Guest palnese]

 

 

[NG32]

Long live the king.

[Guest firetotheworks]

Worse than Bush's first four years.

[TaylorJ_01]

22% of my life. Mint.

[ponsaelius]

22% of my life. Mint.

 

Hows that maths degree working out for you then?

[TaylorJ_01]

22% of my life. Mint.

 

Hows that maths degree working out for you then?

 

I used 24 since it's my birthday next week. And I also used 5 for absolutely no reason at all. I basically performed a completely unrelated calculation.

[ponsaelius]

22% of my life. Mint.

 

Hows that maths degree working out for you then?

 

I used 24 since it's my birthday next week. And I also used 5 for absolutely no reason at all. I basically performed a completely unrelated calculation.

 

[Hudson]

It's an interesting theory, but talk of computer game players being better at the real thing is a bit cringey IMO. No matter how advanced the software is, it's all still 100% theoretical.

 

[Guest firetotheworks]

Mourinho uses or used FM like, there's no getting away from that. It's also about to be used by clubs for scouting. I'm dubious, but it's no less implausible than using prozone etc just because it's a video game.