Mental health in football

[Stifler]

You'd hope that by 2014 this idea of it being 'selfish' would be a thing of the past .

 

Yeh, hate when people say it's the cowards way out.

 

That's not what LIIWBY is saying though, is it? I agree with him that (attempting to) commit suicide by causing an accident involving innocent others is not, on the face of it, a very social thing to do. However, it is also clear that people who do this are not thinking straight, so it's hard to judge really. I saw a very moving documentary the other day about a girl who was going to commit suicide and that followed her preparations. She planned the whole thing meticulously, said goodbye to her father and friends (who knew what she was planning) and finally overdosed in exactly the way she had planned. Suicide is always painful of course for everybody involved, but if people feel they are better off that way, I think this is a much more 'honourable' approach. I can not imagine how I would feel if my wife and kids perished in an accident caused by somebody committing suicide.

 

Was this girl terminally ill?

 

No. 20 year old girl suffering from depression.

So the documentary crew just stood on and filmed it and watched instead of helping or trying to prevent it?

[Unbelievable]

You'd hope that by 2014 this idea of it being 'selfish' would be a thing of the past .

 

Yeh, hate when people say it's the cowards way out.

 

That's not what LIIWBY is saying though, is it? I agree with him that (attempting to) commit suicide by causing an accident involving innocent others is not, on the face of it, a very social thing to do. However, it is also clear that people who do this are not thinking straight, so it's hard to judge really. I saw a very moving documentary the other day about a girl who was going to commit suicide and that followed her preparations. She planned the whole thing meticulously, said goodbye to her father and friends (who knew what she was planning) and finally overdosed in exactly the way she had planned. Suicide is always painful of course for everybody involved, but if people feel they are better off that way, I think this is a much more 'honourable' approach. I can not imagine how I would feel if my wife and kids perished in an accident caused by somebody committing suicide.

 

Was this girl terminally ill?

 

No. 20 year old girl suffering from depression.

So the documentary crew just stood on and filmed it and watched instead of helping or trying to prevent it?

 

Wasn't a film crew, just the documentary maker with her camera. Also, they obviously didn't film the actual suicide, they filmed the weeks of preparations proceeding it, interviewing her father and friends etc. The documentary maker and father appeared on a Dutch television show too explaining why they had done it, and it was quite moving and understandable to be honest. The project was called "I am letting you go" (in Dutch), and that is exactly what it was.

 

This is the (English text) website of the project: http://bnnz.nl/projecten/ik-laat-je-gaan/en/

[SEMTEX]

LETTING YOU GO The twenty-seven-year-old protagonist of the film suffers from borderline personality disorder, chronic depression and insomnia. After nine years of intensive treatment with no positive results, she has decided she does not want to live any longer. Because she doesn’t want to traumatize anyone with her death she chooses self-euthanasia. She tells her father and best friends about her death wish to give them the chance to come to terms with her decision and say their goodbyes. We see Sanne in her final weeks, in which she looks forward to the day she will finally find peace. Letting you go is a short documentary about a psychiatric patient’s right to self-determination, the longing for peace and the biggest sacrifice a father can make out of love for his child. <enter>

 

Would you like to have  a DVD? For  €12,50 it can be yours.

 

Beautiful.

[ujpest doza]

You'd hope that by 2014 this idea of it being 'selfish' would be a thing of the past .

 

Yeh, hate when people say it's the cowards way out.

 

That's not what LIIWBY is saying though, is it? I agree with him that (attempting to) commit suicide by causing an accident involving innocent others is not, on the face of it, a very social thing to do. However, it is also clear that people who do this are not thinking straight, so it's hard to judge really. I saw a very moving documentary the other day about a girl who was going to commit suicide and that followed her preparations. She planned the whole thing meticulously, said goodbye to her father and friends (who knew what she was planning) and finally overdosed in exactly the way she had planned. Suicide is always painful of course for everybody involved, but if people feel they are better off that way, I think this is a much more 'honourable' approach. I can not imagine how I would feel if my wife and kids perished in an accident caused by somebody committing suicide.

 

Was this girl terminally ill?

 

No. 20 year old girl suffering from depression.

So the documentary crew just stood on and filmed it and watched instead of helping or trying to prevent it?

 

Wasn't a film crew, just the documentary maker with her camera. Also, they obviously didn't film the actual suicide, they filmed the weeks of preparations proceeding it, interviewing her father and friends etc. The documentary maker and father appeared on a Dutch television show too explaining why they had done it, and it was quite moving and understandable to be honest. The project was called "I am letting you go" (in Dutch), and that is exactly what it was.

 

This is the (English text) website of the project: http://bnnz.nl/projecten/ik-laat-je-gaan/en/

That is grim.

Wrong on so many levels.

 

[Unbelievable]

You'd hope that by 2014 this idea of it being 'selfish' would be a thing of the past .

 

Yeh, hate when people say it's the cowards way out.

 

That's not what LIIWBY is saying though, is it? I agree with him that (attempting to) commit suicide by causing an accident involving innocent others is not, on the face of it, a very social thing to do. However, it is also clear that people who do this are not thinking straight, so it's hard to judge really. I saw a very moving documentary the other day about a girl who was going to commit suicide and that followed her preparations. She planned the whole thing meticulously, said goodbye to her father and friends (who knew what she was planning) and finally overdosed in exactly the way she had planned. Suicide is always painful of course for everybody involved, but if people feel they are better off that way, I think this is a much more 'honourable' approach. I can not imagine how I would feel if my wife and kids perished in an accident caused by somebody committing suicide.

 

Was this girl terminally ill?

 

No. 20 year old girl suffering from depression.

So the documentary crew just stood on and filmed it and watched instead of helping or trying to prevent it?

 

Wasn't a film crew, just the documentary maker with her camera. Also, they obviously didn't film the actual suicide, they filmed the weeks of preparations proceeding it, interviewing her father and friends etc. The documentary maker and father appeared on a Dutch television show too explaining why they had done it, and it was quite moving and understandable to be honest. The project was called "I am letting you go" (in Dutch), and that is exactly what it was.

 

This is the (English text) website of the project: http://bnnz.nl/projecten/ik-laat-je-gaan/en/

That is grim.

Wrong on so many levels.

 

 

How so?

[LoveItIfWeBeatU]

I have every sympathy with anyone who feels suicidal and I hope they get the help they need. However, after getting all the help possible, for whatever reason, some people just don't want to live.

 

I don't think suicide is cowardly or selfish. I do think people who involve innocent people in their suicide are worse than selfish. If someone you knew was killed as a result of someone else attempting suicide (crashing a vehicle into them, jumping out in front of their vehicle, jumping off a roof and landing on them, etc.) I'm sure you wouldn't have much sympathy for the person who committed suicide. You'd more likely be wishing they'd killed them self in a way which didn't involve anyone else.

 

That is grim.

Wrong on so many levels.

It's better than flinging herself in front of some poor innocent minding their own business.

[LoveItIfWeBeatU]

Yes, but as you yourself pointed out, and many others itt, its not a state of mind where logic is the prevailing trait, you cant judge it against typical behaviour.

True but most suicidal people have been thinking about it for a long time before attempting it. That being the case, they will have thought of ways of doing it which didn't involve endangering anyone else.

[maybe_next_year]

I have every sympathy with anyone who feels suicidal and I hope they get the help they need. However, after getting all the help possible, for whatever reason, some people just don't want to live.

 

I don't think suicide is cowardly or selfish. I do think people who involve innocent people in their suicide are worse than selfish. If someone you knew was killed as a result of someone else attempting suicide (crashing a vehicle into them, jumping out in front of their vehicle, jumping off a roof and landing on them, etc.) I'm sure you wouldn't have much sympathy for the person who committed suicide. You'd more likely be wishing they'd killed them self in a way which didn't involve anyone else.

 

That is grim.

Wrong on so many levels.

It's better than flinging herself in front of some poor innocent minding their own business.

 

what an absolute load of shite. showing a complete ignorance of those in the situation where they want to take their own lives in such a way.

[LoveItIfWeBeatU]

In the circumstances discussed, my sympathy is with the innocent person the suicidal person has used to commit suicide.

[Guest firetotheworks]

The person committing suicide is innocent too. I get what you're saying, but I don't think the words 'innocent' and 'used' are appropriate.

[ujpest doza]

You'd hope that by 2014 this idea of it being 'selfish' would be a thing of the past .

 

Yeh, hate when people say it's the cowards way out.

 

That's not what LIIWBY is saying though, is it? I agree with him that (attempting to) commit suicide by causing an accident involving innocent others is not, on the face of it, a very social thing to do. However, it is also clear that people who do this are not thinking straight, so it's hard to judge really. I saw a very moving documentary the other day about a girl who was going to commit suicide and that followed her preparations. She planned the whole thing meticulously, said goodbye to her father and friends (who knew what she was planning) and finally overdosed in exactly the way she had planned. Suicide is always painful of course for everybody involved, but if people feel they are better off that way, I think this is a much more 'honourable' approach. I can not imagine how I would feel if my wife and kids perished in an accident caused by somebody committing suicide.

 

Was this girl terminally ill?

 

No. 20 year old girl suffering from depression.

So the documentary crew just stood on and filmed it and watched instead of helping or trying to prevent it?

 

Wasn't a film crew, just the documentary maker with her camera. Also, they obviously didn't film the actual suicide, they filmed the weeks of preparations proceeding it, interviewing her father and friends etc. The documentary maker and father appeared on a Dutch television show too explaining why they had done it, and it was quite moving and understandable to be honest. The project was called "I am letting you go" (in Dutch), and that is exactly what it was.

 

This is the (English text) website of the project: http://bnnz.nl/projecten/ik-laat-je-gaan/en/

That is grim.

Wrong on so many levels.

 

 

How so?

That someone has made a documentary film about a young girl's plans to kill herself rather than trying to save her and get her some help.

 

 

[Unbelievable]

I take your point KI, but surely somebody who for example flings themselves in front of a train on a busy platform, or drives their car into oncoming traffic would be aware of the consequences, not only for themselves but also for other people involved? I understand at that point in time the person (attempting to) commit(ing) suicide is probably not capable of such judgement calls, but then again I presume they wouldn't have felt this urge without a long period of contemplating it.

 

I think this is where the self-euthanasia from the documentary I referred to comes in. In the past decades, medically assisted euthanasia has become more accepted in the Western world (certainly over here in Holland anyway), but it remains a very difficult subject, with anybody helping another person in their suicide attempt liable to criminal charges. In my opinion, euthanasia should be a viable option not only for people who suffer physically, but also those who suffer mentally to the point that they feel their life is not worth living anymore, and after (sufficient) professional treatment has proven to be ineffectual.

[Guest firetotheworks]

I take your point KI, but surely somebody who for example flings themselves in front of a train on a busy platform, or drives their car into oncoming traffic would be aware of the consequences, not only for themselves but also for other people involved? I understand at that point in time the person (attempting to) commit(ing) suicide is probably not capable of such judgement calls, but then again I presume they wouldn't have felt this urge without a long period of contemplating it.

 

I think this is where the self-euthanasia from the documentary I referred to comes in. In the past decades, medically assisted euthanasia has become more accepted in the Western world (certainly over here in Holland anyway), but it remains a very difficult subject, with anybody helping another person in their suicide attempt liable to criminal charges. In my opinion, euthanasia should be a viable option not only for people who suffer physically, but also those who suffer mentally to the point that they feel their life is not worth living anymore, and after (sufficient) professional treatment has proven to be ineffectual.

 

That first paragraph can all be answered in one way; you cannot rationalise an irrational mind.

 

Dunno about the second part, it's not really something I've thought about tbh.

[Unbelievable]

You'd hope that by 2014 this idea of it being 'selfish' would be a thing of the past .

 

Yeh, hate when people say it's the cowards way out.

 

That's not what LIIWBY is saying though, is it? I agree with him that (attempting to) commit suicide by causing an accident involving innocent others is not, on the face of it, a very social thing to do. However, it is also clear that people who do this are not thinking straight, so it's hard to judge really. I saw a very moving documentary the other day about a girl who was going to commit suicide and that followed her preparations. She planned the whole thing meticulously, said goodbye to her father and friends (who knew what she was planning) and finally overdosed in exactly the way she had planned. Suicide is always painful of course for everybody involved, but if people feel they are better off that way, I think this is a much more 'honourable' approach. I can not imagine how I would feel if my wife and kids perished in an accident caused by somebody committing suicide.

 

Was this girl terminally ill?

 

No. 20 year old girl suffering from depression.

So the documentary crew just stood on and filmed it and watched instead of helping or trying to prevent it?

 

Wasn't a film crew, just the documentary maker with her camera. Also, they obviously didn't film the actual suicide, they filmed the weeks of preparations proceeding it, interviewing her father and friends etc. The documentary maker and father appeared on a Dutch television show too explaining why they had done it, and it was quite moving and understandable to be honest. The project was called "I am letting you go" (in Dutch), and that is exactly what it was.

 

This is the (English text) website of the project: http://bnnz.nl/projecten/ik-laat-je-gaan/en/

That is grim.

Wrong on so many levels.

 

 

How so?

That someone has made a documentary film about a young girl's plans to kill herself rather than trying to save her and get her some help.

 

 

 

The girl in question was 27, sufffering from borderline personality disorder, chronic depression and insomnia, and had received 9 years of intensive treatment to no avail. She made an informed decision, asked and received support from her loved ones and decided to go along with a short documentary being made of her situation in the hope it could benefit others in the same position. You make it sound like this was a teenage girl taking pills in her school's lavatory and being filmed by a fellow student while she was doing it.

[Dave]

Former footballer Clarke Carlisle was charged with a drink-driving offence days before he was seriously injured when he was hit by a lorry, it has emerged.

 

[ED209]

Former footballer Clarke Carlisle was charged with a drink-driving offence days before he was seriously injured when he was hit by a lorry, it has emerged.

 

 

I am waiting for the police to be blamed for this now for not making sure a grown adult got himself home safely after his release from custody.

[Tooj]

I thought that it was worth this going in here.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2017/jun/29/steven-caulker-mental-illness-addictions-gambling-drinking-qpr?CMP=share_btn_tw

[HawK]

Thought he was unfortunate to be in another crash at the same place when this was bumped.. 

[Fugazi]

Was on a stag in York last year driver on way back to the hotel mentioned we had just passed the spot where Clarke had tried to commit suicide. Cheers mate.

[LV]

Might want to change the title of this. Saw it bumped and thought he'd done it again.

[OCK]

You'd be surprised how widespread this is, and how behind the times clubs are with knowing how to react and how to deal with it. They treat it like a short term injury. They have no clue at all, in some cases leaving it to the club Chaplin to act as a counsellor. It should be said that it's not just players that need to be looked after but the non-playing staff too. Not mentioning any clubs in particular by the way.

[Wallsendmag]

Should do a flag to raise awareness of this tbh.

[Raconteur]

You'd be surprised how widespread this is, and how behind the times clubs are with knowing how to react and how to deal with it. They treat it like a short term injury. They have no clue at all, in some cases leaving it to the club Chaplin to act as a counsellor. It should be said that it's not just players that need to be looked after but the non-playing staff too. Not mentioning any clubs in particular by the way.

 

In interesting comparison is Australian Football - in the past two months two senior players have come out and admitted they are suffering with depression, standing down to be treated. The industry has changed so much that "old skool" journalists are copping flak for responding in an "old skool" manner: One player announced he was stepping down from first grade playing in order to battle depression. When he was photographed a few days later at training, possibly the top AFL journo in Melbourne Tweeted "Depression on Tuesday, training on Thursday? Good drugs" and was widely and uniformly vilified for his "old" attitudes. Public attitudes, in Australia at least, seem to be more understanding in the main.

 

Flipside is that one of the best (and certainly highest paid) AFL players was traded after three strikes for recreational drug use was swept under the carpet, and he's now on two strikes at his new club. If you're a superstar, then, like Steve Caulker said, the bosses don't care what you do on your own time if you do the job on Saturday.

 

[Interpolic]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/40446713

[Big Geordie]

RE Clarke Carlisle - he's now married to one of my best mates' cousin's - glad to say that he and she are doing well. She used to write a column for the Chron, about being a single lass.