AshleyOut.com

[Disco]

Always enjoy discussions about what a football fan 'deserves'. Do Spurs fans DESERVE to watch a quality team? Do Crewe fans DESERVE to watch an awful one?

 

No football fan deserves anything when they buy a ticket to watch their local club. Load of fucking nonsense.

 

I strongly disagree with that. At the very least football fans deserve those running the club, on their behalf, to be doing the best they can for their club. Not for personal gain. Nobody deserves winning football more than anyone else but winning football is usually a by product of my first point.

[Wullie]

It's a priorities issue which each individual decides IMO.

 

I personally value the club being successful and true to the values which I believe it ought to represent more than a day out (if I can use that as my nasty pejorative 'catch all'), or the potential of a 6-2 drubbing of an awful Norwich side once a season etc.

 

If you value a day out more than the club being successful, then your priorities have helped to contribute to the perpetuation of the club being unsuccessful, so in my view it's a bit cheeky to then complain, when you either: a) didn't prioritise the club being successful over your day out or b) didn't know/refuse to accept that there is a correlation between your day out and the club continuing to be run as it is. I've got little sympathy for either category, and frankly, it doesn't sound like they want or need my sympathy. They will continue to have the fantastic days out they've been enjoying for the past 8 years.

 

Look, I have been to 4 games this year (previously had a season ticket for 16 years). The reasoning I gave myself at that time, other than the fact that I had a baby and my priorities changed somewhat, was that maybe just maybe if enough people stopped going something might change.

 

But then the realisation set in...

 

No one has yet given me a reasonable explanation of how not showing up is going to change anything?

 

If the stadium was empty every week, <b>he would soon do one</b>. There's no advertising opportunities to be had from an empty Championship ground, and that's all he's here for.

 

He wouldn't man. That's not how businessmen work. If and when he decides to sell, it will be when the value of the club is at it's highest he can make it.

 

If you're talking about emptying the stadium every week, seeing us relegated further divisions, in the hope of eventually reclaiming our club and rising back up like some kind of metaphorical phoenix, is that REALLY worth the risk? Genuine question.

 

He will never sell the club in the Premier League, the rewards for mediocrity are now too great.

 

Worth the risk to me as I certainly won't be back while Ashley's there. Number one priority to me is to be able to go back, and feel proud to support them, instead of guilty. Whether that's in the Premier League or the Conference, I honestly don't care a jot.

[Beren]

It's a priorities issue which each individual decides IMO.

 

I personally value the club being successful and true to the values which I believe it ought to represent more than a day out (if I can use that as my nasty pejorative 'catch all'), or the potential of a 6-2 drubbing of an awful Norwich side once a season etc.

 

If you value a day out more than the club being successful, then your priorities have helped to contribute to the perpetuation of the club being unsuccessful, so in my view it's a bit cheeky to then complain, when you either: a) didn't prioritise the club being successful over your day out or b) didn't know/refuse to accept that there is a correlation between your day out and the club continuing to be run as it is. I've got little sympathy for either category, and frankly, it doesn't sound like they want or need my sympathy. They will continue to have the fantastic days out they've been enjoying for the past 8 years.

 

Look, I have been to 4 games this year (previously had a season ticket for 16 years). The reasoning I gave myself at that time, other than the fact that I had a baby and my priorities changed somewhat, was that maybe just maybe if enough people stopped going something might change.

 

But then the realisation set in...

 

No one has yet given me a reasonable explanation of how not showing up is going to change anything?

 

If the stadium was empty every week, <b>he would soon do one</b>. There's no advertising opportunities to be had from an empty Championship ground, and that's all he's here for.

 

He wouldn't man. That's not how businessmen work. If and when he decides to sell, it will be when the value of the club is at it's highest he can make it.

 

If you're talking about emptying the stadium every week, seeing us relegated further divisions, in the hope of eventually reclaiming our club and rising back up like some kind of metaphorical phoenix, is that REALLY worth the risk? Genuine question.

 

There 's an industry dedicated to turning around failed businesses, departments etc. Why would football be any different? I would argue that is how business can work. Vendors selling something for a value which is good for them (ie. above the minimal advertising revenue receivable in the Championship, reduced turnstile coffers and reduced wonga t-shirt money) to purchasers who have the savvy, resource or will to extract more value from that something than in its present state (ie. an owner who wants to see the club succeed, and knows that financial success will follow footballing success).

 

(eg. http://startups.co.uk/buying-failed-businesses/ )

 

In answer to your genuine question: yes

 

To me the club serves no purpose and represents little to nothing of what I believe it should in its current guise. My stake is an empty husk of something valuable so I can't lose.

[Interpolic]

He wouldn't man. That's not how businessmen work. If and when he decides to sell, it will be when the value of the club is at it's highest he can make it.

 

If people had left in their droves by now then I doubt he'd still own the club personally.  "How businessmen work" is cutting their losses before the shit really hits the fan and their asset is essentially worthless.  The fact that half a billion people won't see his advertising every week anymore will be more significant to him than anything else right now.

[Robster]

Because, quite frankly Wullie, putting money into Mike Ashley's pocket is NOT a guarantee that you will or should get a shit product

Hindu, you can't actually be serious about this.

There are almost too many points to list but 2 relegations during his tenure pretty much confirms that a shit product is guaranteed.

[Interpolic]

He wouldn't man. That's not how businessmen work. If and when he decides to sell, it will be when the value of the club is at it's highest he can make it.

 

If people had left in their droves by now then I doubt he'd still own the club personally.  "How businessmen work" is cutting their losses before the s*** really hits the fan and their asset is essentially worthless.  The fact that half a billion people won't see his advertising every week anymore will be more significant to him than anything else right now.

 

But it wasn't significant to him last time we went down (although I can't remember if the stadium was plastered with all that stuff last time).

 

Of course it was, we spent one season down there.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

I think for people who are determined to support Newcastle no matter what, the whole point is it doesn't matter what the product is like.

[Interpolic]

He wouldn't man. That's not how businessmen work. If and when he decides to sell, it will be when the value of the club is at it's highest he can make it.

 

If people had left in their droves by now then I doubt he'd still own the club personally.  "How businessmen work" is cutting their losses before the s*** really hits the fan and their asset is essentially worthless.  The fact that half a billion people won't see his advertising every week anymore will be more significant to him than anything else right now.

 

But it wasn't significant to him last time we went down (although I can't remember if the stadium was plastered with all that stuff last time).

 

Of course it was, we spent one season down there.

 

But it wasn't significant enough for him to consider selling, is what I mean.

 

He said that he'd put the club on the market.  Months into the season it was clear that we had a very good chance of getting promoted and all talk of that went quiet.

 

The free advertising he gets to project to such a huge audience is his main reason for owning the club, no question.

[AlanSkÃrare]

It's a priorities issue which each individual decides IMO.

 

I personally value the club being successful and true to the values which I believe it ought to represent more than a day out (if I can use that as my nasty pejorative 'catch all'), or the potential of a 6-2 drubbing of an awful Norwich side once a season etc.

 

If you value a day out more than the club being successful, then your priorities have helped to contribute to the perpetuation of the club being unsuccessful, so in my view it's a bit cheeky to then complain, when you either: a) didn't prioritise the club being successful over your day out or b) didn't know/refuse to accept that there is a correlation between your day out and the club continuing to be run as it is. I've got little sympathy for either category, and frankly, it doesn't sound like they want or need my sympathy. They will continue to have the fantastic days out they've been enjoying for the past 8 years.

 

Look, I have been to 4 games this year (previously had a season ticket for 16 years). The reasoning I gave myself at that time, other than the fact that I had a baby and my priorities changed somewhat, was that maybe just maybe if enough people stopped going something might change.

 

But then the realisation set in...

 

No one has yet given me a reasonable explanation of how not showing up is going to change anything?

 

If the stadium was empty every week, <b>he would soon do one</b>. There's no advertising opportunities to be had from an empty Championship ground, and that's all he's here for.

 

He wouldn't man. That's not how businessmen work. If and when he decides to sell, it will be when the value of the club is at it's highest he can make it.

 

If you're talking about emptying the stadium every week, seeing us relegated further divisions, in the hope of eventually reclaiming our club and rising back up like some kind of metaphorical phoenix, is that REALLY worth the risk? Genuine question.

 

He will never sell the club in the Premier League, the rewards for mediocrity are now too great.

 

Worth the risk to me as I certainly won't be back while Ashley's there. Number one priority to me is to be able to go back, and feel proud to support them, instead of guilty. Whether that's in the Premier League or the Conference, I honestly don't care a jot.

 

This is the bottom line. I don't care that we're relegated because I took no enjoyment from being a Premier League team and I take no pride in supporting the imitation of Newcastle United that was just demoted. He needs to go before that can change, and that looks more likely to happen away from the tv deals and commercial exposure.

[Robster]

No, it does not guarantee anything. And you are not culpable or partly to blame if you buy a season ticket believing that maybe this year this will change. When you buy a ticket for ANY club, you are never guaranteed anything.

Ashley's record suggests that, yes, we've been shit, but the idea that you can't buy a ticket in the hope / expectation of us being better is bullshit.

I have to say I think that's naive Hindu.

If you look at any club, at who runs it, who the manager is and who the playing staff are, you have a pretty good idea of what you are buying into.

We know for a fact that Ashley doesn't want us to get better.

[Figures 1-0 Football]

Great to think along those lines but Ashley has had countless opportunties before to change.

 

I have no doubt Rafa will beg to stay, Ashley will boot him out and we'll be singing 'Steve Evans' Black n White Army' next year.

[Guest dabe]

He wouldn't man. That's not how businessmen work. If and when he decides to sell, it will be when the value of the club is at it's highest he can make it.

 

If people had left in their droves by now then I doubt he'd still own the club personally.  "How businessmen work" is cutting their losses before the s*** really hits the fan and their asset is essentially worthless.  The fact that half a billion people won't see his advertising every week anymore will be more significant to him than anything else right now.

 

But it wasn't significant to him last time we went down (although I can't remember if the stadium was plastered with all that stuff last time).

 

Of course it was, we spent one season down there.

 

But it wasn't significant enough for him to consider selling, is what I mean.

 

He said that he'd put the club on the market.  Months into the season it was clear that we had a very good chance of getting promoted and all talk of that went quiet.

 

The free advertising he gets to project to such a huge audience is his main reason for owning the club, no question.

 

And he has already said this time that we're stuck with him even if we get relegated.

 

It's easy to remain when there's only apathy from large portions of the fan base.

 

Prolonged protests work; see History.

[Wullie]

He spent money and hired Rafa because he didn't want us to get relegated and lose a fortune. That's the only time he ever acts. I don't understand why this needs spelling out.

 

"He's changed" ffs. Are you on the wind up?

[Wullie]

Touche.

[Darth Crooks]

He wouldn't man. That's not how businessmen work. If and when he decides to sell, it will be when the value of the club is at it's highest he can make it.

 

If people had left in their droves by now then I doubt he'd still own the club personally.  "How businessmen work" is cutting their losses before the s*** really hits the fan and their asset is essentially worthless.  The fact that half a billion people won't see his advertising every week anymore will be more significant to him than anything else right now.

 

But it wasn't significant to him last time we went down (although I can't remember if the stadium was plastered with all that stuff last time).

 

Of course it was, we spent one season down there.

 

But it wasn't significant enough for him to consider selling, is what I mean.

 

He said that he'd put the club on the market.  Months into the season it was clear that we had a very good chance of getting promoted and all talk of that went quiet.

 

The free advertising he gets to project to such a huge audience is his main reason for owning the club, no question.

 

And he has already said this time that we're stuck with him even if we get relegated.

 

The guy is a twice proven liar. It means fuck all. They thought we'd get out of this and so that bluster will no doubt change.

[Guest The Little Waster]

 

 

We don't know for a fact that he doesn't want us to get better.

 

However, we know that thus far he doesn't appear to know how to make us better.

 

FFS

[AyeDubbleYoo]

Whether he wants us to get better or not is kind of irrelevant, if he's not willing or able to do what it takes to make it happen.

[Darth Crooks]

Whether he wants us to get better or not is kind of irrelevant, if he's not willing or able to do what it takes to make it happen.

 

He wants us to be better than not in the premier league and however minimal I suppose AshleyOut would see it as leverage.

[Interpolic]

Strange behaviour to come on here the day after relegation playing devil's advocate in Ashley's favour for the hell of it like.

[Varadi]

I think for people who are determined to support Newcastle no matter what, the whole point is it doesn't matter what the product is like.

 

There will always be a hardcore who will go no matter what. Leeds for instance have been mismanaged on a criminally epic scale for 15 years now by a series of shithouses who actually make Ashley look mildly competent but still had over 25,000 at their last home game.

 

After a while it actually becomes a badge of honour that you're still turning up to watch complete shit week after week.

[Disco]

I think for people who are determined to support Newcastle no matter what, the whole point is it doesn't matter what the product is like.

 

There will always be a hardcore who will go no matter what. Leeds for instance have been mismanaged on a criminally epic scale for 15 years now by a series of shithouses who actually make Ashley look mildly competent but still had over 25,000 at their last home game.

 

After a while it actually becomes a badge of honour that you're still turning up to watch complete shit week after week.

 

At the same time they're the best supported away club in that league by a mile because people who still want to go and watch their club don't want to put money in their owners pockets.

[Dave]

I don't have a problem with anyone who feels that it's their duty to support the team, and I have some sympathy for the idea that some will feel that Ashley's presence won't force them out. It's our club, not his.

 

What I do have a massive problem with is those that are actively against protest, including those who stand and argue against it and refuse to contribute to even the smallest attempt to fight back. I simply cannot understand that lot. They're the ones that are getting what they deserve.

[54]

I don't have a problem with anyone who feels that it's their duty to support the team, and I have some sympathy for the idea that some will feel that Ashley's presence won't force them out. It's our club, not his.

 

What I do have a massive problem with is those that are actively against protest, including those who stand and argue against it and refuse to contribute to even the smallest attempt to fight back. I simply cannot understand that lot. They're the ones that are getting what they deserve.

This

[Disco]

I don't have a problem with anyone who feels that it's their duty to support the team, and I have some sympathy for the idea that some will feel that Ashley's presence won't force them out. It's our club, not his.

 

What I do have a massive problem with is those that are actively against protest, including those who stand and argue against it and refuse to contribute to even the smallest attempt to fight back. I simply cannot understand that lot. They're the ones that are getting what they deserve.

 

Well put.

[B-more Mag]

If you buy a football club, you've got to know that you're buying an asset that isn't really "yours"--not in the same way most other assets are. People are emotionally invested in it in ways they aren't to most other business enterprises. As an owner you've got to realize that those people are stakeholders, and if you're smart you realize that you owe some level of duty to treat them with respect. Even if you don't share the same enthusiasm for the club, those people are still your customers after all.

 

Ashley treats the fans--his customers--with nothing but sheer contempt, at least to the extent he even acknowledges them as anything at all other than a line on his accounts.

 

In my opinion we owe the club and ourselves the duty to let Ashley know, in no uncertain terms, that treating the club and the supporters with contempt is not fucking acceptable and that it's our club as much as it is his. If people still go to games and put money in his pocket, but vociferously protest, I've got no real issue with that, because they're off-setting the money they're putting in with their protesting. People that are willing to just sit back and get fucked by him, though . . I suppose they're getting the fucking they want.

 

Edit: Or, more succinctly, what Dave said.