England

[Wullie]

Not having a calming pressence killed us like. No idea why Loftus Cheek didn't come on, even if he is a bit limited.

 

That and they couldn't seem to slow the game down. I get we were trying to hit them on the counter Southgate/Henderson should've been balling at them to take their time, stay down hurt, kill the game, box them in the corner for a bit. Even if just for 5 minutes to take the sting out of the constant attacks. Game management was sorely lacking and although that tends to come with experience it's not like it was a bunch of rookies out there plus they did it well against Colombia.

 

Easy playing Friday afternoon quarterback of course, but during the game I was howling for the usual Delph>Alli sub at the very least. RLC>Lingard would have helped enormously as well. Pull them back 25 yards and give us a platform to play again.

 

[BlufPurdi]

Arrogance.

 

I don't know if you've ever watched pre-match football coverage before but speculating about what a team's potential strengths/weaknesses are in relation to their opposition is kind of the whole point. Had England played 2x120 minutes and Croatia not, the pundits would have said they were worried about England's stamina, why wouldn't they?

 

Again, we're back to this weird situation where the normal rules of following and talking about football cease to exist during international tournaments.

 

Think your team can maybe win a match? ARROGANCE.

Think Raheem Sterling might be objectively quicker than Dejan Lovren, and mention that England could use this to their advantage? DELUDED.

Query whether playing more football matches might make a human being more weary than another human being who has played less football matches? WHY EVERYONE HATES ENGLAND.

 

I know you're raging at this, but this is how it's seen man.

 

People keep mentioning the foreign aspect of this.  It's got nowt to do with being foreign and not understanding British/English humour, as the Scots and Welsh make the same comments and come to the same conclusions.

 

I think we're getting a bit hung up on actual words said, my whole life in Scotland has been littered with incidents where I've told I'm an arrogant English cunt.  It's a perception others have of us, and going over the words said in the media is irrelevant to it.  I don't think it's entirely fair, but I don't think it's without basis either.  We are the Lannisters of the world, at least that's how we're seen.

 

EDIT: I don't mean any of this as a dig, by the way, just find it amazing that the whole arrogant English thing has shocked so many.

[Disco]

Not having a calming pressence killed us like. No idea why Loftus Cheek didn't come on, even if he is a bit limited.

 

That and they couldn't seem to slow the game down. I get we were trying to hit them on the counter Southgate/Henderson should've been balling at them to take their time, stay down hurt, kill the game, box them in the corner for a bit. Even if just for 5 minutes to take the sting out of the constant attacks. Game management was sorely lacking and although that tends to come with experience it's not like it was a bunch of rookies out there plus they did it well against Colombia.

 

Easy playing Friday afternoon quarterback of course, but during the game I was howling for the usual Delph>Alli sub at the very least. RLC>Lingard would have helped enormously as well. Pull them back 25 yards and give us a platform to play again.

 

Game needed shutting down even if just for a bit. Easier said than done though.

[Hanshithispantz]

Henderson clearlly wasn’t fit like.

[Wullie]

If "foreigners" in general think the English are arrogant, then whatever, not much Lee Dixon can do about that on an ITV football show.

 

But let's not pretend that there was anything unreasonable or arrogant about what was said before the game about Croatia potentially suffering from added minutes in their legs. That's just perfectly normal football discussion, not some sort of gloating superiority from the Empire.

[Dinho lad]

Footballers are sensitive souls anyway.

[Fugazi]

Can't wait to see Mbappe rip Croatia to shreds on Sunday.

 

hopefully sets griezemann up for a hattrick

 

Hey now

[BlufPurdi]

If "foreigners" in general think the English are arrogant, then whatever, not much Lee Dixon can do about that on an ITV football show.

 

But let's not pretend that there was anything unreasonable or arrogant about what was said before the game about Croatia potentially suffering from added minutes in their legs. That's just perfectly normal football discussion, not some sort of gloating superiority from the Empire.

 

I don't disagree. 

[The College Dropout]

I haven't read the whole thread but is underestimating Croatia's stamina arrogance?

 

It seems to be just natural that you'd assume a team having played that many minutes would tire

 

It is when you take it as an absolute advantage. It is when you don't plan to exploit it, you just think it's going to happen. It was just "they've played loads, they will be tired." Nothing about us doing work to tire them out further.

 

To make matters worse, we don't play in a style which is likely to take advantage of it. The formation demands a lot physically from the fullbacks and midfield 3. And we were unlikely to dominate possession and wear the Croatians out as they chased the game.

 

I also think Croatia had a game plan to conserve energy, from their front wide men at least. Perisic and the other lad didn't bother chasing our fullbacks back which is partially why we enjoyed so much in the first half.

 

I look at Mayweather. He exploits apparent weaknesses, he just doesn't take them as a given. You think a boxer will tire, you work his body. Or at least talk about it being in the game plan. Nobody did that.

 

If i'm Luka Modric and i'm being told the English think we'll tire out, i'll be fired up. After 80 minutes who will be suffering more, him or Henderson? Henderson will over-exert himself in the opening 80 minutes and his touch, technique and composure will fail him. He will be passed to death. That happened in only May.

 

Wullie - there was a plan to exploit Sterling's pace. That's not arrogance. There was no plan to exploit tired Croatian legs. No attempt to keep the ball and make Modric and co. run their legs out. In the end even our plan to use our pace became overly basic.

 

 

Re: slowing it down. I don't think it's an individual thing. When the going gets tough for England (over the last 20 years), we lose belief in our ability to play technically and lose composure. Even the likes of Stones, when the going got tough, he took the easy option with his passes, it's why so many times we pass it back to the GK. We don't have that core belief to play it throughout English football culture. When it gets tough, pump it long, play it safe. Lose the ball, concede possession, sit deep.

 

Some of it is technical. I think all 3 of our midfielders are runners first and foremost, 2 of which are final 3rd players. After 70 minutes, the running had gone from them. But most of it is mental.

 

Think Gareth was naive tactically too. Full backs needed cover, not from the CM's who had been run into the ground.

[Infinitely Content]

Can't wait to see Mbappe rip Croatia to shreds on Sunday.

 

hopefully sets griezemann up for a hattrick

 

Hey now

 

Wouldn't worry Fugazi, Griezmann was wasteful last much tbh, looked really poor in an attacking sense for the most part. No chance he's getting a hattrick.

[Fugazi]

Can't wait to see Mbappe rip Croatia to shreds on Sunday.

 

hopefully sets griezemann up for a hattrick

 

Hey now

 

Wouldn't worry Fugazi, Griezmann was wasteful last much tbh, looked really poor in an attacking sense for the most part. No chance he's getting a hattrick.

 

Fingers crossed, hopefully Lukaku us rested against us as well.

[triggs]

The tiredness thing is a bit ridiculous. Not sure why Modric was so upset by that. However, when your national catchphrase becomes "it's coming home" for two weeks I don't think you can complain when people accuse you of arrogance, tongue in cheek or not

[The College Dropout]

The tiredness thing is a bit ridiculous. Not sure why Modric was so upset by that. However, when your national catchphrase becomes "it's coming home" for two weeks I don't think you can complain when people accuse you of arrogance, tongue in cheek or not

 

I agree with whoever said, the English are generally seen as arrogant. With that hat on:

They're tired as an absolute advantage > chat about open top celebrations in London or a tour > "Hey Slav, what's Croatian for it's coming home loolz".

 

Seems a bit arrogant. Especially when they have Jordan Henderson as your midfield Maestro and you're Luka Modric - looking for 0.5% extra determination and motivation. You'll take it.

[Wullie]

I disagree, I think you can complain, because it's stupid. There are several NUFC songs which reference winning the league/cup/going to Wembley/Europe, despite the fact we all know we're going to achieve none of this. It's a football song. I haven't been to Waterloo with me mum and me dad and me gran and a bucket of vindaloo either.

 

Do we have reevaluate terrace culture in the wake of this World Cup run to make sure all songs fit the established facts so we're not accused of arrogance in future and don't upset poor Luka and his weird mates?

[BlufPurdi]

Nah, no matter what was said, they'd still have said the English are arrogant.  There was nothing remotely arrogant about post-match analysis.  It's coming home is not arrogant, but it clearly annoyed the fuck out of non-England fans.  They've started from the position that we're arrogant, then clutched at whatever nonsense to justify it. 

 

The stuff about certain pundits and media taking Croatia for granted is a bit arrogant (not tiredness, but an almost lack of focus on them, let's talk about France/Final - Rio on BBC comes to mind with that).  The talks of the final, of how to play France, that is arrogant, the wild hype that was created post-Panama struck me more of idiocy than anything, but that certainly annoyed many too, but so much of it wasn't.  There can be truth in both stances.  So much wasn't arrogant, but so much was.  I'm really not having that our media isn't capable of it. 

[Rich]

The tiredness thing is a bit ridiculous. Not sure why Modric was so upset by that. However, when your national catchphrase becomes "it's coming home" for two weeks I don't think you can complain when people accuse you of arrogance, tongue in cheek or not

 

[Carlito]

I think it's hilarious to say we were being arrogant when you look at that Lovren quote.

[mrmojorisin75]

Can't wait to see Mbappe rip Croatia to shreds on Sunday.

 

hopefully sets griezemann up for a hattrick

 

Hey now

 

Wouldn't worry Fugazi, Griezmann was wasteful last much tbh, looked really poor in an attacking sense for the most part. No chance he's getting a hattrick.

 

Fingers crossed, hopefully Lukaku us rested against us as well.

 

i need griezmann to finish france top scorer for an actual bet, hattrick would get me a share of the sweepstake as well...it's happening

[mrmojorisin75]

Nah, no matter what was said, they'd still have said the English are arrogant.  There was nothing remotely arrogant about post-match analysis.  It's coming home is not arrogant, but it clearly annoyed the fuck out of non-England fans.  They've started from the position that we're arrogant, then clutched at whatever nonsense to justify it. 

 

i was explaining the origins of it's coming home to the bairn and it brought back the memory of how fucking funny it was when the germans beat us on our own patch and basically fucking murdered us with that song

[Disco]

The tiredness thing is a bit ridiculous. Not sure why Modric was so upset by that. However, when your national catchphrase becomes "it's coming home" for two weeks I don't think you can complain when people accuse you of arrogance, tongue in cheek or not

 

 

The Irish Times article on is a superb bit of fewm by a normally good & balanced journalist.

[BlufPurdi]

Nah, no matter what was said, they'd still have said the English are arrogant.  There was nothing remotely arrogant about post-match analysis.  It's coming home is not arrogant, but it clearly annoyed the fuck out of non-England fans.  They've started from the position that we're arrogant, then clutched at whatever nonsense to justify it. 

 

i was explaining the origins of it's coming home to the bairn and it brought back the memory of how fucking funny it was when the germans beat us on our own patch and basically fucking murdered us with that song

 

Fun times

[Hanshithispantz]

In fairness to the Irish the 'best fans in the world' shit at the euros wound me the fuck up like

 

Didn't they get like a key to a French city or something?

[Rich]

It's canny sad, like, especially from the inventors of craic.

 

Maybe I was in a bubble, but the #ItsComingHome thing was mainly just a sign of support for the team and most days were spent asking "is it really coming home?" in a sort of unbelieving way, with the other person inevitably being sheepish about it and just being happy we'd made it so far with such a poor group of players.

 

Don't think I spoke to one person who actually thought we'd win it, or that we had the best team / manager in the tournament - even by the SF stage.

[Rich]

In fairness to the Irish the 'best fans in the world' shit at the euros wound me the fuck up like

 

Think it's canny hard to argue to be honest, they're the Geordies of national football.

[The College Dropout]

I disagree, I think you can complain, because it's stupid. There are several NUFC songs which reference winning the league/cup/going to Wembley/Europe, despite the fact we all know we're going to achieve none of this. It's a football song. I haven't been to Waterloo with me mum and me dad and me gran and a bucket of vindaloo either.

 

Do we have reevaluate terrace culture in the wake of this World Cup run to make sure all songs fit the established facts so we're not accused of arrogance in future and don't upset poor Luka and his weird mates?

 

I literally wrote 1 line about the song. My point is taking the tiredness as an absolute fact, then going on about the final (ITV and BBC did this) as Bluf said - rather than focus on Croatia and how we take advantage of their weaknesses.

 

When we've been in semi's - we barely looked at what the other semi was doing... at least that's how it seemed. Laser focus on the Man U and Marseille games I felt from the media sans x years without a trophy stuff.

 

I'm with Bluf really. There's a predisposition of seeing the English as arrogant. Especially from Croatia, a small and relatively new nation. Beating England and going to the WC final is the biggest sports achievement ever - according to Bilic anyway. I can imagine their focus was solely on us.

 

It's also fairly arrogant to insist we aren't arrogant. Arrogance is usually down to perception from others and an over-estimation of one's ability or standing. It's harder to call a team arrogant or in need of humility when they win and we never do.